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	<title>Comments on: New Songdo City pieces</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 07:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Curious</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15021</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 09:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15021</guid>
		<description>gbnhj wrote,

"High-rise condo complexes are successful in Korea, but haven?€™t always been elsewhere. Individual responses to stressors are of course variable, but it?€™s realistic to say that cultural responses differ as well, and this type of design hasn?€™t faired well in Europe or the US because those people have been acculturated to accept certain types of stress, but not others."

I guess you haven't been to Vancouver.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gbnhj wrote,</p>
<p>&#8220;High-rise condo complexes are successful in Korea, but haven?€™t always been elsewhere. Individual responses to stressors are of course variable, but it?€™s realistic to say that cultural responses differ as well, and this type of design hasn?€™t faired well in Europe or the US because those people have been acculturated to accept certain types of stress, but not others.&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess you haven&#8217;t been to Vancouver.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziggy Freud</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15020</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziggy Freud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15020</guid>
		<description>Heh heh, not to put too fine a point on it, but this morning on the way to work I walked past the Ichon-dong Baskin-Robbins and noticed that they were apparently giving out free samples of their new "32nd flavor": Sidewalk Pizza.

Two new puddles right outside the front door.

Although B-R usually keeps its ingredients a trade secret, this time I could tell at first glance that the main ingredients in this newest flavor were soju, rice, ramen noodles, and cabbage.

I believe it is being called the Noolji Surprise.

If it had chocolate in it I might have been tempted, but as I was already dunning late for work, I passed it by and kept on moving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh heh, not to put too fine a point on it, but this morning on the way to work I walked past the Ichon-dong Baskin-Robbins and noticed that they were apparently giving out free samples of their new &#8220;32nd flavor&#8221;: Sidewalk Pizza.</p>
<p>Two new puddles right outside the front door.</p>
<p>Although B-R usually keeps its ingredients a trade secret, this time I could tell at first glance that the main ingredients in this newest flavor were soju, rice, ramen noodles, and cabbage.</p>
<p>I believe it is being called the Noolji Surprise.</p>
<p>If it had chocolate in it I might have been tempted, but as I was already dunning late for work, I passed it by and kept on moving.</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15019</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 04:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15019</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I would never choose to live in sucha  "foreigner zone". Most people asked about it respond frankly that they don't want to live in a zoo, nor to be living in a special neighborhood set up for total strangers to come and pester them for unpaid, unscheduled English conversation practice time (ie. work) during their off-hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I would never choose to live in sucha  &#8220;foreigner zone&#8221;. Most people asked about it respond frankly that they don&#8217;t want to live in a zoo, nor to be living in a special neighborhood set up for total strangers to come and pester them for unpaid, unscheduled English conversation practice time (ie. work) during their off-hours.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15018</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Apr 2005 03:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15018</guid>
		<description>?€œRather than Songdo, I think the municipal government should keep the walls up around Yongsan and only allow English speakers to live there when the Americans leave. That would be much more convenient, allow everyone access to Seoul, and let us live in a green place with our own traffic and parking laws.?€?

I can?€™t help but scratch my head. Why should people in a foreign country have to speak English? Do other countries have English only zones for the benefit of English speaking foreigners living there (as opposed to decisions by Koreans to make English only areas to force themselves to learn/practice English)? As for keeping the prime real estate that will be Yongsan (once the base is abandoned )an English only (foreign only?) area, it seems akin to developing part of NY?€™s Central Park and turning it into an Spanish only zone. And the idea of ?€?keep[ing] the walls up?€™ has rather elitist connotations, if not outright colonial ones. 

Someone is trying to build just such a zone in Jeonju. The questionnaire I received (twice in the last year) horrified me with questions like, "Should the foreign enclave be open (a) only to foreigners, to (b) to foreigners and Koreans fluent in English?" I was horrified. Someone told me it was "just housing" (!!!) and not a question of whether friends who cannot speak English could or could not pop by for a visit. Still, I was horrified. 

As for the spitting, it may be a regionally variant thing. Down here in Jeonju I can't say it's SO common but I see more of it here and in Iksan than I've seen in places like Seoul, Kwangju, or Busan. But I can attest that the INDOOR spitting (which revoltes me) does happen and it's mostly young men with so-called Japanese hair. These young hipsters do it in stairwells, in bathrooms, and occasionally even in classrooms. The indoor spitters I've seen have ALWAYS been guys with a love affair with hairspray. 

As for Songdo? I dunno, I prefer more of a combination of top-down and bottom-up revolution, but whatever; the changes that could come of it might have some good effects. It can't be much uglier than the cement block apartment buildings that are everywhere now, can it? Though I'd prefer to see them do something with industrial bamboo... it's the new concrete, after all. Oooh, ooh, yeah... think it over with Bruce Sterling. Heh. Whee, fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>?€œRather than Songdo, I think the municipal government should keep the walls up around Yongsan and only allow English speakers to live there when the Americans leave. That would be much more convenient, allow everyone access to Seoul, and let us live in a green place with our own traffic and parking laws.?€?</p>
<p>I can?€™t help but scratch my head. Why should people in a foreign country have to speak English? Do other countries have English only zones for the benefit of English speaking foreigners living there (as opposed to decisions by Koreans to make English only areas to force themselves to learn/practice English)? As for keeping the prime real estate that will be Yongsan (once the base is abandoned )an English only (foreign only?) area, it seems akin to developing part of NY?€™s Central Park and turning it into an Spanish only zone. And the idea of ?€?keep[ing] the walls up?€™ has rather elitist connotations, if not outright colonial ones. </p>
<p>Someone is trying to build just such a zone in Jeonju. The questionnaire I received (twice in the last year) horrified me with questions like, &#8220;Should the foreign enclave be open (a) only to foreigners, to (b) to foreigners and Koreans fluent in English?&#8221; I was horrified. Someone told me it was &#8220;just housing&#8221; (!!!) and not a question of whether friends who cannot speak English could or could not pop by for a visit. Still, I was horrified. </p>
<p>As for the spitting, it may be a regionally variant thing. Down here in Jeonju I can&#8217;t say it&#8217;s SO common but I see more of it here and in Iksan than I&#8217;ve seen in places like Seoul, Kwangju, or Busan. But I can attest that the INDOOR spitting (which revoltes me) does happen and it&#8217;s mostly young men with so-called Japanese hair. These young hipsters do it in stairwells, in bathrooms, and occasionally even in classrooms. The indoor spitters I&#8217;ve seen have ALWAYS been guys with a love affair with hairspray. </p>
<p>As for Songdo? I dunno, I prefer more of a combination of top-down and bottom-up revolution, but whatever; the changes that could come of it might have some good effects. It can&#8217;t be much uglier than the cement block apartment buildings that are everywhere now, can it? Though I&#8217;d prefer to see them do something with industrial bamboo&#8230; it&#8217;s the new concrete, after all. Oooh, ooh, yeah&#8230; think it over with Bruce Sterling. Heh. Whee, fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Call Me Al</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15017</link>
		<dc:creator>Call Me Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 15:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15017</guid>
		<description>Then you have something like this.

&lt;a href="http://jabex.spymac.net/Desktop-Images/4.jpg" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://jabex.spymac.net/Desktop-Images/4.jpg&lt;/a&gt;

Hopefully Seoul will never look like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then you have something like this.</p>
<p><a href="http://jabex.spymac.net/Desktop-Images/4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://jabex.spymac.net/Desktop-Images/4.jpg</a></p>
<p>Hopefully Seoul will never look like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziggy Freud</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15016</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziggy Freud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15016</guid>
		<description>Wow.  I guess I killed this thread.

Sorry, Marmot.  I really didn't mean to.

Although, I do think this whole "loogie business" is a topic worth discussing further given that it's so nasty and so widespread and is one of the first "different" things many foreignors notice about Korea when they get off the plane.

As far as the Koreans learning the habit from the Chinese....well, I don't have evidence one way or the other, but my money is on the Koreans having taught it to the Chinese.  Either way, it is something Korea needs to address if they want to attract foreign investment.

Will foreign companies refuse to set up shop in Korea just because of loogies when there is a buck to be made?  Hell no.  But, there will always be quality of life issues with getting quality employees to travel to Korea and live there long-term.  The spitting [and flag burning, finger cutting, etc.] is just a surface symptom of a much deeper syndrome that has led many foreignors reluctant to view Korea, rich as it is, as anything other than a dirty third world shit hole, when those of us who live here know it's a pretty nice place most of the time.  

That sounded awkward...did it make sense?  Oh well...

Hckkthhprghhrgatthp!  [Sound of a good loogie coming up.]

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  I guess I killed this thread.</p>
<p>Sorry, Marmot.  I really didn&#8217;t mean to.</p>
<p>Although, I do think this whole &#8220;loogie business&#8221; is a topic worth discussing further given that it&#8217;s so nasty and so widespread and is one of the first &#8220;different&#8221; things many foreignors notice about Korea when they get off the plane.</p>
<p>As far as the Koreans learning the habit from the Chinese&#8230;.well, I don&#8217;t have evidence one way or the other, but my money is on the Koreans having taught it to the Chinese.  Either way, it is something Korea needs to address if they want to attract foreign investment.</p>
<p>Will foreign companies refuse to set up shop in Korea just because of loogies when there is a buck to be made?  Hell no.  But, there will always be quality of life issues with getting quality employees to travel to Korea and live there long-term.  The spitting [and flag burning, finger cutting, etc.] is just a surface symptom of a much deeper syndrome that has led many foreignors reluctant to view Korea, rich as it is, as anything other than a dirty third world shit hole, when those of us who live here know it&#8217;s a pretty nice place most of the time.  </p>
<p>That sounded awkward&#8230;did it make sense?  Oh well&#8230;</p>
<p>Hckkthhprghhrgatthp!  [Sound of a good loogie coming up.]<br />
 <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: jyc</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15015</link>
		<dc:creator>jyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15015</guid>
		<description>I think they must have learned it from the Chinese. I was actually a little surprised, though, that they didn't quite live up to their fearsome spit on the bus, spit in the store, spit in church  reputation; I think it's some sort of post SARS thing.

I didn't see so much spit on Taiwan, though I heard that some like to chew nasty betel nut there, which gives you pink spit.

Whatever the case, a daily outrage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they must have learned it from the Chinese. I was actually a little surprised, though, that they didn&#8217;t quite live up to their fearsome spit on the bus, spit in the store, spit in church  reputation; I think it&#8217;s some sort of post SARS thing.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see so much spit on Taiwan, though I heard that some like to chew nasty betel nut there, which gives you pink spit.</p>
<p>Whatever the case, a daily outrage.</p>
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		<title>By: gbnhj</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15014</link>
		<dc:creator>gbnhj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15014</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I have to say that the 'pizzas' are a real fact of life in my neck of the woods, whether near work or home. I still like things here, on balance, but it's true that I have to watch where I walk sometimes...I wouldn't mind seeing that practice outlawed ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I have to say that the &#8216;pizzas&#8217; are a real fact of life in my neck of the woods, whether near work or home. I still like things here, on balance, but it&#8217;s true that I have to watch where I walk sometimes&#8230;I wouldn&#8217;t mind seeing that practice outlawed <img src='http://www.rjkoehler.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: dogbert</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15013</link>
		<dc:creator>dogbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 23:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15013</guid>
		<description>Koreans love spit.  There's really no other explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koreans love spit.  There&#8217;s really no other explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: Iceberg</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2005/04/22/new-songdo-city-pieces/#comment-15012</link>
		<dc:creator>Iceberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1568#comment-15012</guid>
		<description>I have to side with Art on this one (does that make me Paul Simon?).  I've seen plenty of young women (in their 20s) who don't hesitate to let one fly.  It seems more common these days (perhaps because women are now more willing to smoke outdoors).  In fact, I once saw a young woman spit on the stairs INSIDE of a building (not the subway).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to side with Art on this one (does that make me Paul Simon?).  I&#8217;ve seen plenty of young women (in their 20s) who don&#8217;t hesitate to let one fly.  It seems more common these days (perhaps because women are now more willing to smoke outdoors).  In fact, I once saw a young woman spit on the stairs INSIDE of a building (not the subway).</p>
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