Mutantfrog mentioned some of the antics Japan’s “fascist wannabes” have been up to vis-a-vis Chinese diplomatic legations in Japan. Well, the Dong-A Ilbo reported today that on April 15, a Japanese man called up a Korean school in Tokyo and said that unless Koreans left Japan, he would kill them all. I tall order, given that there are something like 700,000 ethnic Koreans living in Japan, but the school didn’t bother contemplating the logistics of the threat. Instead, it asked police to beef up security around the school and conducted a search of the premises. Nothing unusual was discovered, but the school has asked students not speak loudly in Korean coming and going from school and encouraged them to go straight home after class.
101 Comments
ok dstur, I see that you were making some other point.
Anyway,what gets me annoyed is when people mistakenly think that the presence of a large Korean minority in Japan is somehow indicative of how “tolerant” and “progressive” Japan is towards its non-ethnic japanese residents as compared to a country like Korea. Nothing can be further from the truth. Like I said before, Koreans exist in Japan because of historical circumstances, not because Japan somehow one day decidedly became accepting of different peoples living within its borders.
its called KARMA- many southeast asian workers came to Korea and were brutality assaulted and suffered racial discrimination- and now Blacks and whites still auffer from racial slurs from a minority of Koreans. Dont think so? Try wlaking down the street near Shinchon with a korean women and hear what they about you…
anyways what goes around comes around, the Koreans are getting back they they dished out- and opefully in spades
SORRY my ^$%$ing keyboard is broken….
Its called KARMA- many southeast asian workers came to Korea and were brutality assaulted and suffered racial discrimination- and now Blacks and whites still suffer from racial slurs from a minority of Koreans. Don’t think so? Try walking down the street near Shinchon with a korean woman and hear what they about you…
Anyways what goes around comes around, the Koreans are getting back they they dished out- and hopefully in spades
“you missed the point. she was rejected because she was (may be is) a korean national, not because she was korean ancestry”
I don’t know about this case, but it sounds to me she would be considered stateless, a Zainichi Korean, not a Korean national with Korean citizenship. She was born and raised in Japan, her father was Korean, but her mother is Japanese. It doesn’t sound like she would have a Korean citizenship. That 700,000 ethnic Koreans in Japan seems to me it’s overblown. Maybe that was true more than a decade ago. That number should have dropped drastically, as more and more ethnic Koreans take up Japanese citizenship, and try to hide their ethnicity.
Wacky fucked up Japs
So, Dae Han, chopping your finger off and tossing it over the Japanese gate is not wacky? Get real.
Marmot, could you please delete the above “Dae Han” post. I don’t know who he is or if he’s really a Kyopo or not, but all he’s doing is race baiting.
I read a year or so back there are around 70 Korean schools in Tokyo alone, can’t imagine the reaction of the Koreans if Japan ran 70 schools in Seoul.
Japan had more than just the equivalent of 70 schools during 1910-1945 in Korea.
My above comment is my understatement of this entire thread….
Let me try to educate you, dstur…
Most of the koreans in Japan are naturalized citizens but their history is similar to African-Americans. If you know your history many of them were brought over as slaves AGAINST their will during Imjin wae ran (Hideyoshi Invasion) of 1592-1598.
The many korean schools probably exist because many of these korean descendants know little or no korean culture and language. How will they function in Korean society if they were to go back, huh?
Try telling an African-American today to go back to Africa and you’ll see how far you go.
So my point is that there’s a historical reason why there are many Koreans in Japan as opposed to Japneses in Korea.
As another indication of what it is like to be Japanese, but of Korean ancestry in Japan and of how discrimination occurs in Japan:
TOKYO ?€” The Supreme Court on Wednesday rejected a lawsuit by Chong Hyang Gyun, a 54-year-old South Korean public health nurse, who demanded the metropolitan government allow her to take a promotion exam for a management post regardless of her nationality.
Chong, a second-generation South Korean resident born to a Korean father and a Japanese mother, was hired by the Tokyo metropolitan government in 1988. Having fulfilled all the requirements for higher positions, she applied to sit in an exam needed for promotion in March 1994. But the government refused to accept the application, saying that “Japanese nationality is necessary for positions which are linked to the exercise of public powers.”
The article is here.
The whole finger thing comes from a revolutionary during the occupation. You can see a big stone monument to him (with hand print minus one finger) near Seoul Tower. I cannot remember the bloke’s name, since I am American and only saw it when I was a child. I was told by someone that it goes back even farther, back to Hideyoshi and people having their noses, ears, and fingers cut off, etc.
Yeah Elgin, and that woman has a japanese mother, too.
The bloke’s name was Ahn Jung Gun. He assasinated a high ranking Japanese official in Korea by throwing a bomb at him. Japanese would consider him as a terrorist, while Koreans would consider him as a patriot.
–As another indication of what it is like to be Japanese, but of Korean ancestry in Japan and of how discrimination occurs in Japan–
Read the article, she’s not “Japanese of Korean ancestry.” She’s a Korean national of mixed Japanese and Korean ancestry, living in Japan.
It is not discrimination for the government of Japan to refuse higher governmental positions to foreigners. She is in fact a foreigner, not a Japanese national, and should not expect to continue rising in the Japanese governmental beauracracy as a foreigner.
If she wants to give up her Korean nationality and take Japanese citizenship, fine, then she has a case. As is, this is a non-story. While governments sometimes hire foreigners for certain governmental positions, they are under no obligation to treat them the same as nationals as far as promotions and advancement go.
Will,
Your point on Koreans taken as slaves after the Imjin wars is well taken, and it even gave the Japanese their Pottery industry (prior to that, they were eating off of wood, or imported china), but the majority of ethnic Koreans living in Japan today most likely go back to the 1895-1945 colonial period. (yes, I know it’s legally 1910-45). Of course, slavery existed in Korea as well. When the Imjin wars started, approsimately 1 out of every three Koreas was a slave, to other Koreans. Seoul supposedly had 2/3rd slaves to 1/3rd free Koreans.
Will, my comment was directed towards the first response in the post. ****** J…..agree the individual calling the school fits in that assumption but not an entire race of people.
http://www.freenorthkorea.net/.....00627.html
The many korean schools probably exist because many of these korean descendants know little or no korean culture and language. You hit the purpose of the schools on the head.
TOKYO — As the morning bell tolls at First Chosen Grammar School on the outskirts of this sprawling capital, students rush to class under a mural urging them to cram for the glory of North Korea. At recess they march to blaring North Korean hymns. Their history lessons extol the virtues of Kim Il Sung — the North Korean “Great Leader” who, they are taught, won the Korean War in 1953.
For decades this has been the drill at First Chosen, one of about 130 schools across Japan partly funded by the North Korean government. The students are sons and daughters of ethnic Koreans living in Japan as North Korean citizens, about 150,000 in total. Almost all are descendants of laborers brought here by force or lured by the promise of a better life during Japan’s occupation of the Korean Peninsula from 1910 to 1945. Generations of these ethnic Koreans have pledged allegiance to the North’s Communist government, their cash remittances back home a critical source of hard currency for the isolated nation.
How will they function in Korean society if they were to go back, huh? If they really are providing money to the North it’s doubtful they would be allowed back.
lirelou,
Yes, I know. When King Sunjo fled Seoul,the commoners rose up and burned the slave registries. At first, they hated their government enough to not even oppose the Japanese invaders. But soon their hatred for the king was replaced by the Japanese as local resistance movements spawned all over Korea.
Yes, you’re probably right about the majority of Koreans in Japan originated from the colonial period. So again, we prove the reasons why there are many Koreans in Japan is a historical one. During the late stages of the colonial period, many Koreans were “drafted” into the Japanese army or sent to work in factories or faraway mines. Not to mention the comfort women…..
So I would argue, had Japan shown no aggression towards Korea
in both instances in history (Imjin wars and colonial period) then there would not be such a large minority of Koreans in Japan today. If the Japanese don’t like Koreans in Japan…well, I say it’s their own damn fault.
will,
there were many ethnic koreans came to japan since ancient time by several reasons, some were forced as slaves, many were invited to preach advanced culture then, including pottery, in the peninsula) as you know one of emperor’s wife was from pekche.
anyway, my point is not all koreans were taken by the force, and i dont think they were the target of discrimination at least at that point of history.
i dont deny some of koreans during the colonial time might be forced to go to japan, but then, since early to late ’50’s japanese govt promoted a program for koreans to go back to their motherland. i assume there were many reason that koreans did not go back, particularly because korea was devided by the war.
then, many of them living in japan still maintains korean nationality, and male-korean with korean passport living in japan dont have to go to military service as their brothers in the peninsula, while they are demanding right to work in a japanese government.
R.Elgin,
you missed the point. she was rejected because she was (may be is) a korean national, not because she was korean ancestry.
do you want your president of the country hold a foreign passport?
Sa Hwa dong,
mr. ahn killed ito hirofumi, the first p.m. of japan who opposed to the colonization of korea. there is even an opinion that if he had lived bit longer, the colonization lasted much shorter. (who knows)
mae wrote:
“i dont deny some of koreans during the colonial time might be forced to go to japan,”
Not some, mae, it was the majority of the parents and grandparents of Korean-Japanese who were forced or lured to go to Japan just prior to WW2. And the number that went as slaves during the Imjin wars was around 100,000 and not many returned even after the war. Now that’s not a small number to dismiss if you consider how many of their descendents survive today. That’s a length of more than 400 years!
“but then, since early to late ?€™50?€™s japanese govt promoted a program for koreans to go back to their motherland. i assume there were many reason that koreans did not go back, particularly because korea was devided by the war.”
That program in the 50’s was problematic because many Koreans were already assimilated for generations (not counting the ones who came during WW2 and korean war of course). The bigger reason I believe many didn’t “go back” was because most of them weren’t from Korea in the first place. They themselves weren’t from Korea; their ancestors were but that’s a distinction the Japanese government conviniently likes to ignore.
“then, many of them living in japan still maintains korean nationality, and male-korean with korean passport living in japan dont have to go to military service as their brothers in the peninsula, while they are demanding right to work in a japanese government.”
I would say some, if not,definitely not the majority are in the position you describe. Those who came during or after the korean war are just one aspect of the make-up of ethnic Koreans in Japan, not the majority. Besides, even they have been in Japan for 50 plus years. Their children would be more familiar with Japan than Korea I assume.
Dear Mae,
I seem to recall that the woman forementioned had a Japanese mother (or parent) but retained a Korean-style name. Because of that and other issues, she is still considered a foreigner though she has lived in Japan all of her life and would be considered a native in other countries (like America). My point was that this speaks to the larger issue of Japanese identity and social mindset and of the cultural bias that does exist within that society. “Sa Hwa Dong” is correct.
then, many of them living in japan still maintains korean nationality, and male-korean with korean passport living in japan dont have to go to military service as their brothers in the peninsula, while they are demanding right to work in a japanese government.
FWIH a few years back, the naturalization process is an extremely obtrusive and non-trivial procedure, though it might be somewhat easier now. You also still have to change your name to a Japanese style one, which some people are going to find insulting and unacceptable for obvious reasons.
Japan should do the right thing and acknowledge that the Korean descendants of those they took to the country by force are citizens, just like the descendants of African slaves in America are citizens. They are a integral part of the society.
will,
so you are mainly talking about koreans forcefully brought to japan 400 years ago. maybe i am too innocent but i’ve never heard that those who were broght 400 years ago are still suffered from discrimination. how can you tell those people from ordinary japs in the first place? by the color of skin or face? note that japan has approx 2500 family names, and ordinary japs can hardly recognize who is from where just by a name. i would certainly appreciate some materials of the discrimination you are talking about.
Sa Hwa Dong,
bit old stats. in 1995 there were about 700thou so-called zainichi-koreans(herein most of them were brough or came to japan during the colonial time), and 200thou out of 700thou naturalized to be japanese citizens and rest still maintained korean national status. another document i read said about 8thou zainichi-koreans are naturaliaing each year. and i dont hear any news saying this number is dramatically increasing.
after the WW2, japanese govt provided a special permanent stay permit for koreans and taiwanese who wished stay in japan. so they can stay in japan without changing their nationalities.
and i happen to know a 3rd generation zainichi of late 20’s, and he said he would consider to naturalize after his parents pass away. he can speak very little koreans, been to korean only once, but still he keeps a korean passport. (sad thing was he felt so discrimanated when he went to korea)
usually, when japs call a person zainichi means he/she still keeps a korean nationality.
zainichi means staying/living in japan, ex)zainichi-bei-gun means american troops station in japan.
Will, according to this graph only 13.3% of Koreans arriving in Japan at from 1910 to 1495 came because of the National Labor Mobilization. This includes the children of workers under 12 years of age, so the number of actual worker were lower. This study, conducted from 1982-1983 also identified the primary reason for Koreans coming to Japan as Economic reasons (39.6%). Other reasons included Marriage or living with family (17.3%), Overseas Study (9.5%) and ‘other reasons’ (20.2%). For 0.2 percent of respondents, the reason for coming to Japan was unknown.
A great many Korean also arrived in Japan AFTER the war. Very, very few Koreans went to Japan as part of the labor mobilization program (which only went into effect for Koreans 7 months before the end of the war).
The graph wont show up so here is the link.
http://clashscan.hp.infoseek.c.....riyuu3.gif
jyc,
are you specifically talking about a naturalization process for zainichi koreans? i dont think so. they have much easier process than others just like a special permanet stay permit. and, a japanese law does not allow to register a name in alphabet. a person has to use, hiragana, katakana or chinese charactor to register names, and there are certain restriction what chinese charactors you can not use to register your name. but it applies to all including japanese. and as long as a name uses chinese charactor allowed by the law, there is no equirment to change “name”.
r.elgin,
i admit there is still some discriminatory behavior by an individual in japan to a person who carries ethnical name. but as far as the woman claims for higher position to the local government concerns, she carries a korean nationality and that is the sole reason for the court rejected her claim.
For that graph, for those of us who can’t read Japanese, would you mind translating? And what’s the source of this graph? It can’t be from those guys who approved those text books, can it?
I seem to recall that the woman forementioned had a Japanese mother (or parent) but retained a Korean-style name. Because of that and other issues, she is still considered a foreigner though she has lived in Japan all of her life and would be considered a native in other countries (like America). My point was that this speaks to the larger issue of Japanese identity and social mindset and of the cultural bias that does exist within that society. ?€œSa Hwa Dong?€? is correct.
You are missing the point completely, r. elgin.
That woman is eligible to take up Japanese citizenship anytime. Its quite easy for Koreans in Japan to do so - all it takes is to sign on the dotted line and give up her Korean citizenship. Yet this woman does not want to do so. This is not an issue of cultural bias.
So why doesn’t she give up her citizenship if everything is going to be easier for her? Just look at all the Korean Americans. Tons of them give up Korean citizenship for American ones every year and reap the benefits, and few complaints. So why don’t the Koreans in Japan do the same thing?
For that graph, for those of us who can?€™t read Japanese, would you mind translating? And what?€™s the source of this graph? It can?€™t be from those guys who approved those text books, can it?
I did translate it. See the post above the link. The graph is from the ‘National Department of Registrations’.
jyc said “You also still have to change your name to a Japanese style one, which some people are going to find insulting and unacceptable for obvious reasons.”
You need to have a name that can be written using Japanese script, but virtually all Korean names can be written in Chinese characters so it is actually legal to keep your Korean name and just tell people how you would like them to pronounce the characters used to write your name.
As an aside, there is an ethnic Korean professor at Ritsumeikan University, where I studied in Japan, who became a naturalized Japanese citizen a few years ago. When he did that he actually changed his name, not to make it more Japanese but in an unusual gesture, eliminating the Chinese charactesr and replacing it with a phonetic spelling of his name as read in Korean (using katakana).
r.elgin
for your info, some of korean japanese(hereby means a korean ancestry with japanese national) are elected national perliament members, and mr.beak (i forgot his first name) even carries korean name as is.
So why doesn?€™t she give up her citizenship if everything is going to be easier for her? Just look at all the Korean Americans. Tons of them give up Korean citizenship for American ones every year and reap the benefits, and few complaints. So why don?€™t the Koreans in Japan do the same thing?
Thats a personal question that I cannot answer. However, I did know some Korean residents in Japan (even dated one!). I was told that there is strong pressure from the Korean community in Japan not to take Japanese citizenship. There is also the issue of the ‘minzoku gakkou’ (ethnic schools) run by the North Koreans that teach students that their primary duty is to North Korea, and try to instill anti Japanese thought and ethnic chauvinism.
Obviously, too, for a Korean to “become” a Canadian or American means potentially means little to that person’s sense of self as a Korean because it does not connote changing ethnicity and culture as well.
But to “become” Japanese, where Japan, like Korea, values ethnic homogeneity and blood above shared human ideals and values (as we are supposed to in Canada and the U.S.), is a far more serious matter.
As Korean-Americans tell us, they are as American as any American of any other ethnicity. But non-Koreans who have Korean citizenship will never be accepted as Koreans by their fellow Korean citizens and it would be the same for Zainichi Koreans in Japan who adopt Japanese citizenship.
So the question once again is what makes the situation of Koreans in Japan so different from the situation of Koreans in America? Why do Koreans in Japan resist so fiercely to take up Japanese citizenship, as opposed to Koreans in America/Canada?
Because Japan, EXACTLY LIKE KOREA, but unlike the U.S.A. and Canada, is a ¹??¸???? ???¸.
HTH
So the question once again is what makes the situation of Koreans in Japan so different from the situation of Koreans in America? Why do Koreans in Japan resist so fiercely to take up Japanese citizenship, as opposed to Koreans in America/Canada?
I would guess its a combination of ethnocentricity and peer pressure. Korean residents in Japan are considered traitors by other Korean residents, especially the Korean residents that are North Korean citizens. In fact, if a North Korean resident of Japan takes up Japanese citizenship, they are no longer permitted to make contact with their relatives in North Korea, so that could be another issue. About half the Koreans in Japan that did not take up Japanese citizenship are North Korean citizens.
This is the same situation as Koreans in Japan demanding the right to vote (yes, they are). Even though they dont want Japanese citizenship, they still want to vote in National Elections and stand for national office. They are saying that the Japanese are ‘discriminating’ against them because of this. I dont see the Korean government or any other goverment permitting non-citizens to participate in elections.
Sa Hwa Dong, will you ever let up? Will you see that this is not a case of discrimination against Koreans?
Just as when I started reading here and thinking hey, maybe all the stuff about Japanese being prejudice against Koreans are false, but then I read something like this and it brings me back crashing back to reality. Koreans in Japan are maybe a little better than South East Asians in Korea. The saving grace for Koreans in Japan is that they look exactly like Japanese and that saves them from a lot more grief.
http://homepage1.nifty.com/for.....racism.htm
Hi shaku. I’m not saying the case of that Japanese woman (or Korean or whatever), is a case of discrimination. This is the first time I hear about the case, nor am I at all familiar about the livelihood of Koreans in Japan. I’m not an expert at this at all. All I know is that based on what I’ve heard, most of the perception I’ve gotten is negative. If that perception is wrong, then correct me on it. Some things that I’ve heard few years ago included:
1) Japanese parents hiring private detectives to find out of if their potentional son/daughter is not marrying a secret Korean.
2) Many Koreans are discriminated in the job market if they’re found out to be Koreans - so they try to hide the fact that they have Korean background.
3) Many Koreans can’t get jobs so they resort to pachinko operators, Yakuza, gangs, crime.
4) Due to this, Japanese think Koreans are born natural criminals.
5) Many Korenas can’t get jobs so they go into acting and sports. But once again, to protect their careers, they hide their background.
6) Bull horned trucks go around neighborhoods of Japan, screaming obcenities at Koreans.
7) There are some Korean Japanese when they come of age, find out to their horror that they are Korean, when they have to register.
and so on and so forth.
Once again, I’m just repeating what I’ve read and heard and been told. Maybe it was all BS from the start, or maybe Japan has improved and they don’t do that anymore. If this is all BS and Japan is indeed tolerant toward their former colonial subjects as you and mae point out, then I think it’s great that Japan have risen above the challenge. Then maybe that’s one more thing that Korea should learn from Japan and be less racist and be more tolerant of other cultures.
End.
Sa Wa Dong, This is a reply to comment #20
During the annexation, there were two types of citizenship fort the naichi (mainland) and gaichi (peninsula). They could only be changed by marriage or adoption. Thus, when this woman?€™s mother married a Korean man with a gaichi citizenship in Japan, she immediately lost her naichi citizenship. After the war when Korea was severed from Japan, The gaichi citizens lost Japanese citizenship. She shouldn?€™t be stateless, since here brother, Taikin Tei, a professor of Tokyo Metropolitan University, said that he used to retain his Korean citizenship because it was easier to do research in Korea that way. He has written a book published last year that basically refutes the widely held belief that a majority of Koreans were taken by force(Myth of the Zainichi Kyosei Renko), and in his recent essay, has advised his sister to quit being a tool for activists and become a full member of the Japanese society by becoming its citizen. It is interesting that two such opposing views should come from members of a single family.
blu jay
thanks for the interesting material.
while i agree to some of the facts here in the site, some are very very biased ( guess mine or shaku’s are biased too from his point of view). besides, he is not just an “ordinary” japanese citizen but the infamous teacher’s union supporter, and one of those anti-japan japanese with “green peace” flavor who thinks if japan doesnt have an army, no one will attack us.
“Most of the koreans in Japan are naturalized citizens but their history is similar to African-Americans.”
But much more similar to the African-Englishmen.
Aiiieeeeeargoooo…
‘we got pottery and a princess from baekche…’ mae
you got more than that from the koreans, my friend. let’s not forget
1. that baekche directly ruled yamato from oho-wi.
2. that the yamato clan is really korean.
3. that your language is from the korean kingdom of koguryo.
4. that you not only got chinese culture from the coresians but korean culture as well.
5. that geisha, samurai, and sumo all appeared in korea before they appeared in japan.
6. and that japan to this day refuses excavation and examination of artifacts from tombs of the beakche/shilla/koguryo enculturating era.
now, you want koreans to acknowledge the alleged fact that japan modernized korea so why is it so hard for you to admit the koreans enculturated you with korean-sino culture?
sorry, gbnhj, an errant pixel on my computer made it look like you had written ????´Œ.
stupid piece of crap! i’ll bet a soju-hungover, wife-beating, spittle-spitting, racist salaryman made this monitor!
oh, wait. made in malaysia.
noolji,
thanks for informative opinion. also we learned transisters and automobiles from the us, the army system from germany, udon from china or possibly from italy. recently kimchi is everywhere in 7-11 or family-mart(oops, are they korean origin too?).
we are just a tiny isolated island country. we learned everything from someone and makes it into japonaiseries.
on the contrary, please dont forget ijime or enkoo are from japan.
except soem ultra-rights guys in black vans, we dont care less about the very origins.
No nation developed completely isolated. There has been degrees of influence from everyone influencing everyone - so therefore this very question of who influenced who is garbage intent on trying to feel superior. I agree with mae on this one, as usual you can’t top noolji.
Assessment of Posters:
Marmot: The guy in charge. Well balanced in his comments. Rare postings of radical perspective, but also gives food for thought. Pretty much laisse-faire with controlling comments by posters. Minimal contol, just the way I like it. (you gotta see the bad to appreciate the good
Noolji: Radical Pro-Korean. Doesn’t realize he does more harm for the pro-Koreans due to tantrums and over the top nonsense comments. A Korean version of a redneck. (Needs to listen to Persuasion 101 Talking Sense 101)
Baduk: Radical Pro-Korean. A bit better then Noolji in controling tantrums but may be even more harmful for the pro-Korean cause. Under a thin layer of forced “logic” lurks absolute nonsense. (Ditto for Persuasion 101)
Shakuhachi: Gifted language learner. Not so gifted issue commenter (by being clearly lopsided). Despite venhement denial of the fact, all intelligent readers know that Shakuhachi has deep “contempt” for Koreans (esp. Kyopos) and worships Japan.
Gerry Beavers: Tries hard to maintain the image of a balanced analyst of issues. Knows that sources and good logic is important and implements it well. Yet, intelligent readers know that Gerry Beavers is definitely not an impartial voice. Very pro-Japanese. Often raises question to his supposed value on “balanced” sources and logic when he shows selective appetite for both. (Devious in that he may seem impartial at first to less experienced readers.)
Mae: Probably ethnic Japanese. More objective in view then Shak or Gerry. Relying sources of information seems to be mostly one sided but shows appetite to learn about new perspectives and sources from the “other side.” Strong foundation in logic and has an sharp mind.
– Balanced Poster:
Shows strong logic and respect for credible sources. Does not analyze from “gut feeling”. Makes criticism of the type which hurts bad, but imparts lessons to be learned. Shows respect for all sides.
(Marmot and many more. Budding talent: Mae)
– Self-destructing poster (pro-Korean):
Radically nationalistic. Tarnishes gem facts, sources, or logic they happen to mention by turning people off with radical nonsense and tantrums. Average pro-Koreans may share many thoughts and beliefs with self-destructing posters but in turn feel turned off or discouraged by the additional garbage. Loves to dig their own graves with their tongue. Shows no respect for anything no pro-Korean.
(Noolji, Baduk etc.)
– Anti-Korean
Anti-Korean hates everything about Korea. Acceptable types on blogs making comments interesting and flaming wars fun. Sometimes even offers insightful criticism in disguise. A good counterweight to the pro-Koreans.
Exceptions: Those who hide who they really are. Puts up a facade of a well balanced commenter. Systematic attack on pro-Koreanism through unbalanced facts and sources, half-turths and selective amnesia.
(Shakuhachi, Gerry Beavers)
Will, according to this graph only 13.3% of Koreans arriving in Japan at from 1910 to 1495 came because of the National Labor Mobilization. This includes the children of workers under 12 years of age, so the number of actual worker were lower. This study, conducted from 1982-1983 also identified the primary reason for Koreans coming to Japan as Economic reasons (39.6%). Other reasons included Marriage or living with family (17.3%), Overseas Study (9.5%) and ?€?other reasons?€™ (20.2%). For 0.2 percent of respondents, the reason for coming to Japan was unknown.
A great many Korean also arrived in Japan AFTER the war. Very, very few Koreans went to Japan as part of the labor mobilization program (which only went into effect for Koreans 7 months before the end of the war).
Comment by shakuhachi from ?€” April 22, 2005 (Friday) @ 2:10 pm
Stats do not tell stories of suffering pain at an individual level. My grandfather was one of those taken under the LMP but he came back with permanent disability after a dynamite accident in one of the slave labor camps. This is why it’s emotional for the descendants of the war victims when the perpetrators their descendants can just ignore the truth make trivial numbers out of human suffering. What percentage would it take to make you understand? 15%, 20%, 90%?
Wacky fucked up Japs
Comment by Dae Han from ?€” April 22, 2005 (Friday) @ 4:08 am
DaeHan…That’s not correct…it’s wacky fucked up ultranationalist Japs…but then again you’re a wacky fucked up ultranationalist Gook…like me…
That’s interesting Sang, because my grandfather died in Japan, working as a miner/labourer possibly due to accident or harsh labour (facts aren’t clear to me how he died). I’m not sure if he was forced or not. But my grandmother voluntarily followed my grandfather after he went AWOL. My father was born in Osaka during the 1930’s. My grandmother worked as a labourer/beggar herself with three kids to support. After the war, they were deported back to Chejudo.
assessment of juan as poster:
guy with too much time on his hand giving out useless thoughts on other posters. accuses others of using inaccurate information when accurate information is used. can’t see the forrest for the trees and believes someone like noolji is actually trying to debate here.
Actually, if you’re not here to debate here, what are you doing here? Then again, nevermind, you don’t have to tell me.
Yeah…I don’t know the details of how he came back after the war because my g-pa passed away when I was 1-yo did not want to discuss the slave labor days with my father. But he did teach my father not to hate the Japanese to learn as nation from Japan on their quick westernization growth to modernity. Unfortunately I don’t share my g-pa’s benevolence towards the instigators or their ignorant descendants who gobble up whatever bullshit their fascist-nationalist grandparents have taught them…sometimes I find it amazing how ignorant people choose to be…
whoa…juan…(no pun intended)…you spent enormous amount of time thinking some stupid bullshit…
noolji…maripkan…shilla…very esoteric…good shit…keep it up…
I’m curious, after reading about Koreans living in Japan…is there a reverse case in Korea? Is there a Japanese population living in Korea? I think there are Chinese living in Korea…
To this quote: “That woman is eligible to take up Japanese citizenship anytime. Its quite easy for Koreans in Japan to do so - all it takes is to sign on the dotted line and give up her Korean citizenship. Yet this woman does not want to do so. This is not an issue of cultural bias.”
That’s all it would take. My situation here is somewhat similar. I am not eligible for the F-4 visa because of when my Korean ancestors left Korea, but I am automatically eligible for Korean citizenship. I talk to immigration officials about the hardship of doing the work and other activities I wish to do with the visa restrictions imposed by law for the visas I’m eligible for, despite the fact that I have lived in Korea for over 12 years.
Depending on which official I speak to, I am told to solve my problem by becoming a Korean citizen and/or marrying a Korean citizen (my long-time girlfriend is a Canadian citizen, so the second one is probably not going to happen).
So in their mind, the problem is solved, because I have an option in front of me. In my mind, the option they have is too drastic. I also believe that the Korean government should be setting up a more options for the variety of situations faced by the “foreigners” that are here in Korea.
So is the Korean government being discriminatory by its all-or-nothing policy regarding citizenship versus foreign resident status? Although it’s not like this woman’s situation, I see some parallels. This “Korean” woman can get Japanese citizenship, which would solve her own problems, but that solution doesn’t work for a lot of people. Similarly, me giving up my American citizenship for Korean citizenship would cause a lot of problems for me that make it impracticable as a solution.
The Japan defenders who say this is a non-story are missing the point to some degree; to defend her treatement is, to some degree, to defend Korean treatment of educated foreign nationals here. But the Korea defenders or Japan bashers who see this as further example of discrimination must realize the same situation exists here in Korea: one can’t say that Japan is bad for doing this but not turn the same spotlight on Korea.
Sure - ??´?´Œ is chock-a-block with Japanese, who have long resided in that part of Seoul. If you’re asking about an ethnic-Japanese population with limited rights (similar to ??œ?¡±), I think the answer’s ‘no’.
I?€™m curious, after reading about Koreans living in Japan?€?is there a reverse case in Korea? Is there a Japanese population living in Korea? I think there are Chinese living in Korea?€?
Sure - ??´?´Œ is chock-a-block with Japanese, who have long resided in that part of Seoul. If you?€™re asking about an ethnic-Japanese population with limited rights (similar to ??œ?¡±), I think the answer?€™s ?€?no?€™.
PS: this is a test - sorry for the double post…
That?€™s interesting Sang, because my grandfather died in Japan, working as a miner/labourer possibly due to accident or harsh labour (facts aren?€™t clear to me how he died). I?€™m not sure if he was forced or not. But my grandmother voluntarily followed my grandfather after he went AWOL. My father was born in Osaka during the 1930?€™s. My grandmother worked as a labourer/beggar herself with three kids to support. After the war, they were deported back to Chejudo.
Labor Mobilization in Korea only started 7 months before the end of the war, when things got desperate. Dont worry - it means your grandfather was not part of that program.
gbnhj, i think you mean ??´?´Œ (ichon).
Yeah, I do - ‘two villages’. They’re displaying the same on my browser.
I would urge people who are interested in what it’s like to be a Zainichi Chousenjin/Kankokujin (Japan-resident ethnic Korean) in modern Japan should try to see the movie “Go”, based on a novel by Zainichi authore Kaneshiro Kazuki. I don’t know if the film is for sale outside of Japan, but you can probably download it somewhere. I’d also recommend the novel, which I enjoyed as well, except I’m fairly sure that it has not been translated out of Japanese. Actually, considering the subject there may be a Korean edition, but since I can barely read any Korean I have no idea.
One aspect I’m surprised noone has mentioned is that the Korean community in Japan is actually split between three group: naturalized Japanese citizens, ROK citizens and DPRK citizens. Out of those who retain ‘Korean’ citizenship, about 2/3 are actually NORTH Korean citizens, because following the partition of the penninsula those Korean citizens resident in Japan were allowed to choose which of the two Koreas they swore allegiance to, and a majority mistakenly thought that the communist government up there in Pyongyang would be more sympathetic to their problems, when in reality noone anywhere cared very much.
Since then a number of them have actually switched to ROK citizenship, which I understand is a very easy process at any ROK consulate/embassy in Japan, so the 2/3 figure may not still be true, but there are still more North Korean affiliated schools than South Korean. Yes, they have different schools too-and the DPRK affiliated schools do teach them DPRK propaganda.
‘i already know…’
well, no you don’t but i’m sure you think you do.
‘i already know…’
well, no you don’t but i’m sure you think you do.
you got more than that from the koreans, my friend. let?€™s not forget
1. that baekche directly ruled yamato from oho-wi.
2. that the yamato clan is really korean.-Yawn
3. that your language is from the korean kingdom of koguryo.
4. that you not only got chinese culture from the coresians but korean culture as well.
5. that geisha, samurai, and sumo all appeared in korea before they appeared in japan.
6. and that japan to this day refuses excavation and examination of artifacts from tombs of the beakche/shilla/koguryo enculturating era.
Koreans are so pathetic, and small, that they say anything to make themselves feel good. Even if all of that is true. WHO CARES. Oh yes.. Korea cares. Do you think that the americans dont know that they borrowed ideas and things from other nations? I doubt that those other nations feel so insecure that they have to pretend that they are the root of american sucess the same way koreans think they are the cause of japanese beauity and richness of culure and wealth.
Hahah.. silly little koreans.
er…13yasukuniheros…are you one of those rare spices of anti-korea koreans? it’s very precious whereas we have so many anti-japan japanese.
Tensions appear to be winding down, for the time being at least, between the two Asian giants, China and Japan. But since one or the other is fated to control the region, this can only be a lull - unless (horror of horror!) they decide for some future reasons to form an anti-American alliance.
The move to open conflict seems to have been temporarily postponed for now, according to the stories on http://www.survivalistskills.com/NEWS43.HTM
There’s also a fascinating page of current news articles on the rise of China, the collapsing dollar, the declining U.S. economy, and the New World Order at http://www.survivalistskills.com/newsitem.htm, which makes for interesting daily reading!
it?€™s very precious whereas we have so many anti-japan japanese.
In reality, there aren’t really any “anti-Japan” Japanese anymore than there are any “anti-Korean” Koreans, there are just reactionaries who insist that any criticism is equivalent to treachery. You sound uncomfortably like President Roh, who denounces any criticism as “Pro-American” (??ª?±³).
?€œPro-American?€? (??ª?±³)
pro-american?! i just thought that meant you really like rice.
Japanese people do not use “?¾???½” for some reason, though nobody’s ever explained to me why.
Japanese people do not use ?€œ?¾???½?€? for some reason, though nobody?€™s ever explained to me why.
world war ii propaganda. they didn’t want the japanese people to think of america as a land of beauty. no, it had to be thought of as a land of rice… rice that must be taken… to feed japan. starting with hawaii, known as ??‘??¤??³??½.
The Japanese want to s*** on everyone. After learning technologies from the West, their aim is to conquer all European countries as well as Asian countries. Remember the Nazis? The same thing.
Their religion, Shintoism, teaches the Japanese are better than all other people on the planet. Period. No wonder they attacked the U.S., which is the real number one.
Koreans are so pathetic, and small, that they say anything to make themselves feel good. Even if all of that is true. WHO CARES. Oh yes.. Korea cares. Do you think that the americans dont know that they borrowed ideas and things from other nations? I doubt that those other nations feel so insecure that they have to pretend that they are the root of american sucess the same way koreans think they are the cause of japanese beauity and richness of culure and wealth.
Hahah.. silly little koreans.
Comment by 13YasukuniHeros from ?€” April 24, 2005 (Sunday) @ 5:27 pm
Jeez you’re a fucking idiot…what have multi-cultural influences on American culture to do with Korea’s on Japan? We’re not saying that there is no other cultural influence besides Korea on Japan…China Pacific Islands are also big contributors. No one single culture can really claim to be the de facto root of the American culture…in fact, Chinese, Korean Japanese in U.S. have contributed so much to the shaping of this country. Don’t go around talking like you represent all U.S. citizens of various colors ethnicities. Some of us are already well-aware of the shaping of America. We don’t need your ignorant ass to make false comparisons. Fucking silly ass
?€œJapanese people do not use ?€œ?¾???½?€? for some reason, though nobody?€™s ever explained to me why.?€?
In Japan,
?€œ?±³?€?(Rice) means U.S.A.
?€œ????€?(Buddha) means France.
?€œ????€?(alone) means Germany.
?€œ?œ²?€? (Dew) means Russia.
In Chaina,
?€œ?¾??€?(beauty) means U.S.A.
?€œæ³??€?(Law) means France.
?€œ?¾³?€?(Virtue) means Germany.
?€œ?¿??€?(sudden) means Russia.
This is not a problem of meaning but pronunciation.
We Japanese use kanji(Chinese?€€character), but the pronunciation is different from Chinese. ?€œ?±³?€? is Abbreviation of ?€œ?±³?€?(ME)?€œ????€?(RI)?€œ??…?€?(KEN) or ?€œ?ºœ?€?(A)?€œ?±³?€?(ME)?€œ????€?(RI)?€œ????€?(KA).
And we don’t pronounce ?€œ?¾??€? as ?€œME?€?. That is the reason we don’t use ?€œ?¾???½?€?.
toyo, koreans don’t pronounce ?¾? or ?±³ as ‘me’ (they are both ‘mi’), but they are still used because they were introduced as the names of these countries by the chinese, i believe. are you sure that’s the reason?
the japanese would also have been introduced to ‘america’ as ?¾???½ by the chinese, as well (right?), so there must have been a time when someone decided to make a change from ?¾???½ to ?±³??½. i have been told that was in the time between the world wars, but i’m not sure.
“?±³?€?is not pronounced as “mei” or “mi” either, it is pronounced as “bei.”
“?¾?” is pronounced as “bi,” so it’s unlikely to be a pronunciation issue.
I have no idea why in Korea they stopped using the Japanese name for the US, and switched to the Chinese style name, though the pronunciation and Hangeul spelling is the same. The other Japanese style names for France and Germany are still used, though I think most people now just say “?”???€??¤.” The Chinese style name “??¿???‰™” for “Spain” still appears from time to time.
I asked a Chinese person once about the word for France, and she pointed out that “?½?????¿” is “folanxi” in Chinese. I’m not all that clear on the origin of these words though.
sorry that should be “?”???‘??¤”
You are really jelous of Japan arnt you little Sang and Baduk. It is Koreans who are arrogant and who treat peoople badly. Ask any philipino what they think of a KOrean pig. HAHAHHA… silly little korean pigs.
baduk, please.
i dont ask you to love japs, but still i dont appreciate kind of post as #79. it leads nowhere but getting response like #80, and you know it.
yes, japs were stupid to start the war against the us. many generals and admirals knew about it. stupid but couragous at least.
how do you feel if koreans are told, like, they did not even have enough courage to fight back to those damb ass japs to who koreans enculturated and being colonized for 36 years, and liberated by other countries not by themselves.
i dont think you feel happy.
baduk wrote:
The Japanese want to s*** on everyone.
baduk-oppa, when you make statements like that, you really are as bad as any of the korea bashers. your statement probably doesn’t fit the vast majority of people in japan, anymore than a similar statement would fit the vast majority of koreans. think before you post.
mae wrote:
i dont ask you to love japs
but you are right about calling him on what he wrote. um, anyway, am i the only one who (no offense, mae), feels uncomfortable seeing the word ‘jap/japs’ thrown around all the time? certainly mae doesn’t mean it in any offensive way, but at least in the united states, it really is meant as an offensive racial slur (like ‘nigger’ or ‘gook’), not like a term that could still be used in an endearing way (like ‘yank’).
?€œ?±³?€?is not pronounced as ?€œmei?€? or ?€œmi?€? either, it is pronounced as ?€œbei.?€?
?€œ?±³?€? is pronunced as ?€œkome ?€?, ?€œyone ?€?, ?€œbei?€?, ?€œmai ?€?or ?€œme?€? in japanese. It depends on the situation.
In Japan,
U.S.A = ?€œ?ºœ?±³???????€?(a.me.ri.ka) or?€œ?±³?€?(Rice) ?€?
France = ???????¿?¼?fu.ran.su) or ?€œ????€?(Buddha)
Germany = ????€¸?¼?do.itsu)?€€or?€œ????€?(alone)
Russia = ?œ²??¿?ºœ(ro.shi.a)?€€or ?€œ?œ²?€? (Dew)
?€?We can’t choose ?€œ?ºœ?€? for America, because ?€œ?ºœ?€? means Asia?€œ?ºœ?´°?ºœ?€??¼?a.ji.a).
?€œ?¾??€? is pronounced as ?€œbi,?€? so it?€™s unlikely to be a pronunciation issue.
I heard that?€œ?¾???½?€? is pronounced as ?€œ?¼?½…?½‰?½‡?½??½??€? in Chinese. So I guess they pronounce?€œ?¾??€? as ?€œmei?€?. I also heard that the?€œ?¾??€?came from ?€œ?¾??????…?€?(mei.ri.ken) which means American.
It is not, however, pronounced as “me” or “mei” in “?±³??½,” which is what we’re talking about. It is pronounced as “bei.” Whatever the origin of the word, I’m sure the Japanese government at the time would have strongly preferred “beikoku” to “bikoku” (?¾??œ?) for obvious reasons, if any conscious choice was involved.
What’s strange though, is that in Korea, they switched from “beikoku” as used under Japanese imperialism to the more elegant and nicer Chinese style “bikoku” even though they stuck with the old fashioned Japanese names for France and Germany; who knows, maybe out of gratitude for once.
I think it’s pronounced, “Who gives a shit?”
jyc, Admiral Perry of the United States arrived with his warships in Japan in 1853.
See the picture of Admiral Perry.
http://www.t-p.jp/kazama/hibata/
On the picure, you can see the kanji ?€œ?±³????¹¹?€?(me,ri,kan) which means America. We already used ?€œ?±³?€?in 1853. why do we have to use?€œ?¾??€?which has nothing to do with Japanese pronunciation.
OK. “?±³” though doesn’t seem to have much more to do with japanese pronunciation either, it doesn’t sound much different from “?¾??€?and it’s nicer to the US.
jyc,Japanese and Chinese are two different words. So we write differently.
In Japanese,
Kenya ?¼? ?€œ??±???????€?
Uganda ?¼??€œ????????³??€?€?
Cameroon ?¼??€œ?????¡?????¼??³?€?
In Chinese,
Kenya ?¼??€œ????°¼?ºœ?€?
Uganda ?¼??€œ????¹²??”?€?
Cameroon ?¼??€œ??€?º???†?€?
if you know those chinese characters meaning, please let me know.
Do they use nice characters for those countries?
I dont know some of the characters for cameroon, you really picked difficult ones. Anyway, I’m sure you know what ?¼?mean when names are chosen in Chinese, “??????????¹?” is not random. I didn’t say that “beikoku” was coined specifically out of anti-americanism anyway. Just pointing out that “?±³” in “beikoku” does not sound the same as it does in “?ºœ?±³??????,?€? and that “beautiful country” might have been less desirable than “rice country” at a certain time.
Here, they stopped using “rice country” after the war and changed to “beautiful country,” which is still used in spite of all the anti-americanism.
Come on Marm,
You wrote, “I tall order, given that there are something like 700,000 ethnic Koreans living in Japan, but the school didn?€™t bother contemplating the logistics of the threat. Instead, it asked police to beef up security around the school and conducted a search of the premises.”
It’s common practice for any school to call up the police for protection regardless of how frivolous the threats are. When I was in HS in LI, there were many kids who would play pranks and call the school with bomb threats. Each and EVERY time, they had to have everyone leave the premise and have the police walk around the school before they let anyone in. I hope I am being an overly sensitive guy, but I thought perhaps that your personal views on the crazy nature of soren schools is leading you to single out this school’s behavior. What I mean to say, is that if someone called a school in Harlem and said, “If you n*****s don’t leave this country, I am going to kill EVERY damn N*****s in the country.” and if the said school called NYPD for added protection, would you still say what you did about this school. Hmm. Heck… Soren schools ARE crazy, but it seems to me, that it’s mighty good policy to call the law when crazy people call them with outrageous threats nowadays.
I wasn’t questioning the school’s decision, and the school in question wasn’t a Soren school, as far as I understand. I just thought the threat sounded a bit stupid. I figure, if you’re going to go through the trouble of harassing someone, at the very least, you should make some effort to make the threat credible.
Mea Culpa for jumping to conclusions~
marmot, the threat doesn’t have to be logical for the threat to be real.
most people who would do harm don’t run their thoughts by a blog as widely read as yours before they go off and do what they were going to do.
Be careful.
Those threat messages are sometimes sent by Chongryon agents to make Koreans look victims.(According to the book written by former Chongryon agent)
“there are something like 700,000 ethnic Koreans living ”
It was 600,000 in 90s.
So 100,000 Koreans have migrated to Japan in a decade?
Why do they want to live in enemy country?
gorea wrote:
?€œthere are something like 700,000 ethnic Koreans living ?€?
It was 600,000 in 90s.
So 100,000 Koreans have migrated to Japan in a decade?
Why do they want to live in enemy country?
most of them are breeders, so i’m guessing they engaged in heterosexual intercourse, which in turn led to babies.
i’ve heard the same thing happens in your country, too.