Thanks for the link Mr. Sickboy. Don’t think Koizumi’s apology will be played up on KBS News tonight–Korea has selective amnesia about apologies from Japanese PMs.
Jin, I said here before that any apology Koizumi or his government issues (two in recent months) should be used by Korea as an opportunity to get a substantial resolution to its grievances, but I suspect the Korean gov’t and media prefer to keep the issue ongoing rather than work with Japan. That’s what I meant by “selective amnesia.”
Michael, what matters here is not words but actions. Considering the fact that the Meiji government clearly stated Tokdo/Takeshima is not Japan’s but Chosun’s, the only support for Japan’s claim of the island comes from Shimane’s declaration in 1905. Queen Min was brutally murdered by the Japanese about a decade before 1905 so it is apparent that the Chosun emperor did not have any power in 1905. Not only Koreans, but also respected liberal Japanese media, such as Asahi Shimbun and Sekai, consider this 1905 declaration to be the beginning of Japan’s official colonization of Korea. Germany’s apologies would be futile if Germany still claims part of France and its PM visits Hitler’s shrine every year.
You left out Japan lying about its atrocities at Nanjing. The Japanese pretend to be calm and peaceful on the outside, but deepdown they are liars, landgrabbers and warmongers.
Most Koreans and Chinese will try very hard to ignore this apology and do everything they can to take this sincere conciliatory step and make it into something else.
It is nice to see Japan reaching out yet AGAIN to improve relations but it just doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what Japan says or does. Most Koreans and Chinese will not let go of their victim status and hate.
Baduk said
“You left out Japan lying about its atrocities at Nanjing. The Japanese pretend to be calm and peaceful on the outside, but deepdown they are liars, landgrabbers and warmongers.
The Westerners just don?€™t know the real Japanese.”
The US and other western countries definitely felt the sins of Japan during Pearl Harbor and WWII. The difference is America can tell the difference between the Japan 60 years ago and the peaceful mature democracy it is now. Maybe it is Korea that just doesn’t know the real Japan yet.
Yes 60 years ago Japan was a warmongering, land grabbing lying state. Over the last 60 years Japan has not started one war, Japan has not grabbed any land. I’m pretty sure Japan has lied about something over the past 60 years but name one country that hasn’t. Over the past 60 years China has started multiple wars and grabbed multiple peoples’ lands.
As far as the textbook issue goes Japan does mention Nanjing and atrocities in the middle school textbook that will be in .3% of schools. But does not go into the gruesome detail it once did. They save the terrible gruesome details for high school which I believe to be perfectly acceptable. All countries do this to some degree. Certainly Korea does. Most middle school Koreans seem to thing King Sejong invented Hangul all by himself without any help from any scholar, Korean independence fighters single handedly won Korea’s independence from Japan, and know nothing about Korean atrocities in Vietnam. I would like to say they would save the brutal atrocities Koreans did to Vietnam for high school students but Korea still whitewashes that. You can take Japan’s worst textbook and Korea?€™s/China’s best textbook and Japan would still have the better textbook.
I agree. All three countries, China, Korea and Japan are similar; we are liars, land grabbers and warmongers in some degree.
However, China and Korea are conditioned in Confucian and Buddhist teachings. Many are Christians. We show mercy and degree of respect for other human beings.
For the Japanese, their samurais and ninjas are cold-blooded killers. Their Shinto god allows them to be merciless and cruel. Their elitist mentality brings unspeakable atrocities. What they did in Nanjing is a good example. When I read wickipedia reference on Nanjing and especially about “intest” part, tears welled inside me.
Baduk…you keep saying what you feel in your heart…I read postings by retards like nonkorean(that’s why he’s so retarded I bet) think how can they say shit like…
“Most Koreans and Chinese will try very hard to ignore this apology and do everything they can to take this sincere conciliatory step and make it into something else. It is nice to see Japan reaching out yet AGAIN to improve relations but it just doesn?€™t matter. It doesn?€™t matter what Japan says or does. Most Koreans and Chinese will not let go of their victim status and hate….”
One can capitalize all the letters for emphasis but none of these “reach out AGAIN” to Korea is sincere nor backed by any substantial resolution such as withdrawal of the takeshima day declaration or teaching the truth about Nanjing massacre (see below) People like nonkorean reminds me of same idiots Iris had to challenge to shed some light to the atrocities of the past…if you have ever had the chance to see the pix mentioned below, even the most facetious right-wing war crime deniers will cringe at their own evil…
I don’t buy that arbusto cock-sucking piece of shit kakamamy Koizumi’s apology at all…it’s so fucking obvious he’s lying like a sack of assturd he already is.
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
Voltaire.
LOVE LING JAPAN- Koreans Buddhist? Baduk- take your head out of your ass! Only in Korea are “buddhist” caught embezzling money- look at maramots post about it- other buddhist in the world are appaled by the Korean “buddhist” audacity and twisting of beliefs- Koreans ahve their own speacial religion called “fanaticism” in which they act like drama queens over anything that doesn’t go there way (did you see the picture of the guy with the Hammer trying to break into the Japanese embassy?) give it a break shitbrick….
email= businessteacher1@hotmail.com
dave fams wrote:
Baduk- take your head out of your ass! Only in Korea are ?€œbuddhist?€? caught embezzling money- look at maramots post about it- other buddhist in the world are appaled by the Korean ?€œbuddhist?€? audacity and twisting of beliefs-
japanese buddhist clergy caught up in foreign ministry embezzlement scandal
american buddhist leader transmits aids to some of his followers
thai abbott accused fraud, embezzlement, and corruption
allegations that those collecting money to rebuild buddhist temples there are embezzling some of the money
al gore’s infamous campaign problem involving buddhist nuns
etc., etc.
baduk goes off the deep end sometimes, dave, but that doesn’t mean you have to follow him.
Jin, we’re talking past each other here–I’m saying actions are exactly what China’s and Korea’s gov’ts should work with Japan on now that they have yet another apology, not toss it aside, which is what they’re doing. Use it as an overture, even if it wasn’t meant as one. Get something real accomplished in their relations, not grandstand and shout like perpetual victims. Anyway, the weather’s great in Seoul today, let’s go out and play!
Micheal, the Korean government and many Koreans have been working hard to improve ties with Japan. At the beginning of his term, Roh stated that he would not make issues with history issues such as Yasukuni or history textbooks. It’s Japan that made his stance change by declaring the Takeshima day. To Koreans, Koizumi’s apology won’t be considered valid until Japan withdraws its claim of Tokdo. What can be accomplished on the Korean side when Japan says sorry for its colonization of Korea while still claiming part of the Korean territory using the evidence of that colonization? What do you want Koreans to do to improve their relations on this issue? Even Japanese liberals side with Koreans on Tokdo and history textbook issues.
Aside from the Tokdo issue, Koreans have been and still are trying hard to befriend Japanese people. There are still a lot of Korea-Japan friendship events going on all over Korea (although some have been cancelled). And unlike China, Japanese tourists are still warmly welcomed by most Koreans. (visit enjoyjapan.naver.com and see Japanese tourists’ impressions of Korea on the “travel” board, if you can read Korean)
Jin, it’s really nice outside — I went out for dinner and there’s no “hwangsa” in the sky…anyway, what I meant was the gov’t should say, “thanks for the aopology, now we’ll send some officials to Tokyo to get concrete proposals for better relations” or something to that effect. Everything you’ve been saying is basically right, I’m just frustrated that the gov’t here is long on rhetoric toward Japan and short on actions–now would be a prime opportunity with Koizumi’s apology.
nooooolji, you porch monkey, of course you’ll still read my posts, you’re a whore for attention….you “excommunicated me”? did some priest play with your wee-wee when you were young? that would explain some things
Micheal, I fail to see why the Korean government should say “thanks” for Koizumi’s apology, when there’s still a significant gap between his words and his actions. (On the day Koizumi issued an apology in Indonesia, 30 Japanese congressmen visited Yasukuni. How wonderful.) Anyway, Roh has recently said that, despite current conflicts with Japan, he would still like to meet Koizumi in person as soon as possible, and Koizumi replied favorably as well. They are supposed to meet each other in Seoul next month. I guess this was a good move on the Korean side.
P.S. it’s good to hear that there’s not much hwangsa in Seoul. I almost forgot what the weather was like in Korea during spring.. Have a good time there.
I am having a good time in Korea, thanks. Actually I’m at work, some downtime between the craziness. But at some point the gov’t has to on some level accept Japan’s apology, or why bother asking for it to show contrition? Roh already scheduled the meeting with Koizumi, it was supposed to be part of Korea-Japan Friendship Year (what a joke, eh?) but maybe at that time Roh can make the kind of specific demands I was talking about–not that I have much hope of that.
michael wrote:
Jin, it?€™s really nice outside ?€” I went out for dinner and there?€™s no ?€œhwangsa?€? in the sky?€?anyway, what I meant was the gov?€™t should say, ?€œthanks for the aopology, now we?€™ll send some officials to Tokyo to get concrete proposals for better relations?€? or something to that effect. Everything you?€™ve been saying is basically right, I?€™m just frustrated that the gov?€™t here is long on rhetoric toward Japan and short on actions?€“now would be a prime opportunity with Koizumi?€™s apology.
i think you’re absolutely right. but one of those proposals would be to really show the words mean something by working out something with yasukuni (e.g., no visits by government officials or removing the class-a war criminals’ names from the shrine), and i don’t think a lot of the ldp will go for that. the fact that about eighty of them decided to visit on the same news of koizumi’s apology came out may not be a coincidence (is it? i’m really asking).
nooooolji, you porch monkey, of course you?€™ll still read my posts, you?€™re a whore for attention?€?.you ?€œexcommunicated me?€?? did some priest play with your wee-wee when you were young? that would explain some things
that’s really uncalled for. not funny at all.
Hey Nora, it’s flattering to be quoted The reports here said it really was coincidental that those guys went to the shrine, it was scheduled beforehand, but whatever, it could have at least been postponed, right?
Hey Nora, it?€™s flattering to be quoted
i should start charging money for endorsements.
The reports here said it really was coincidental that those guys went to the shrine, it was scheduled beforehand, but whatever, it could have at least been postponed, right?
perhaps it was just a coincidence (but rightists in the ldp tried to undermine murayama’s apology, too).
still, it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that if koizumi is serious, he could get his own party members to postpone or, better yet, forgo the visit. i really do want this to be put behind us (a la kim daejung and obuchi in 1998), but there’s a big danger that koizumi’s words are going to seem very empty if this kind of stuff is happening at the same time.
Nora, I should charge to be quoted Like I said to Jin, why doesn’t the gov’t here (hell, in Beijing as well) make the apology binding by sending officials to Tokyo with specific proposals, like a general relief fund for WWII victims (to get around Japanese court lawsuit dismissals), a pan-Asian school curriculum (wouldn’t that be, umm, interesting) and even a sort of Asian Union, like the EU, which would make “adventures” by any one country (including China) less likely? Actually that’s probably asking too much from the region–the EU itself is hardly singing in harmony, but Korea especially, if Roh wants to play the “balancing” role, could take the initiative for a change, rather than letting Japan yank its chain as it does now.
Forgive me if I’m wrong. Isn’t the very reason that the wing goverments have dominated in Japan that is the problem fundalmentally? Of course in a democracy, people have the right to vote for who they want. But year after year, nationalist right wingers that deny Japan’s role in pre war era have dominated Japan and have heavily influenced their policies. But the Japanese voters don’t seem to mind voting for people like the governor of Tokyo. I think that says volumes about the mindset of Japan, and that’s why they would say one thing that come out of their mouths and then do something else to contradict what they just said. Would the Germans vote in people who were ex-Nazis? I don’t think so.
again, michael, i think you are right about what korea (and china) need to do next. korea and china have legitimate complaints, and koizumi, at least in words, says that he understands the complaint. now is the time to propose something constructive.
the apology means nothing since it’s empty. enough with japan apologizing while other government officials disolve such an apology the yasoooookoooooneee way. time for action not words:
1. stop approving history books that gloss over what japan has done to OTHERS.
2. stop visiting yasooodoomi or remove class a war criminals from it’s bowels.
3. set up memorial to teach japanese about their shameful behavior.
4. stop allowing prefectures to conduct foreign policy.
Wow the more Japan does to conciliate ties with Korea, the longer the list gets with Korean demands. What a surprise Japan’s apology is either not sincere, or doesn’t really matter to Koreans now. Funny it seemed to matter a lot just a week ago. The ever changing Korean yardstick is moving yet AGAIN.
nonkorean wrote:
Wow the more Japan does to conciliate ties with Korea, the longer the list gets with Korean demands. What a surprise Japan?€™s apology is either not sincere, or doesn?€™t really matter to Koreans now. Funny it seemed to matter a lot just a week ago. The ever changing Korean yardstick is moving yet AGAIN.
an apology is meaningless if there is no substance behind it. and the substance (yasukuni, comfort women, territorial disputes) is not new, ever changing, or a growing list. they have been around for some time and the ldp has been hoping they would go away.
yes, there are some people who want to keep milking antipathy toward japan until the cows come home, but a lot of people want to see japanese officialdom apologize and actually mean it. when eighty ldp lawmakers visit yasukuni on the same day koizumi issues the words to the apology, it calls its value into question.
i think south korea needs to go back to the spirit of the kim daejung-obuchi agreement to put the past behind us, in part because china is very, very scary.
but it’s very hard to do that when the apologies and acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the past, on which the agreement was made, are muddied by actions from the right wing that contradict the spirit of the agreement.
I really wouldn’t put noolji’s demands as representing the entire peninsula, and anyway, about half of them are longstanding issues, in some cases for decades.
I’ll repeat my analogy that Yasukuni Jinja is like having a monument to people who want to revive the Confederacy. It doesn’t matter that that particular government was completely defeated and discredited a very long time ago, there is still a small, stubborn element in Japan that just won’t get over it.
None of this would really be a problem if Yasukuni was just some tiny private cult headquarters, as it properly should be. In reality, however, Yasukuni Shugi (?¸??¾??¼‰continues to some degree to be officially endorsed. A lot of people would justifiably be unhappy if a US president insisted on visiting a shrine to the Confederacy, and the Yasukuni visits deserve the same opprobrium.
Japan has paid wartime reparations and given apologizes to the comfort women. Korea and China need to grow up and stop scrounging for more money in that regard.
As for Yasukuni and Tokdo, why should the Japanese apologize for honoring their war dead and for claiming territory they believe is theirs?
the japanese paid reparations to korea in 1965, but they denied any involvement in the comfort women mobilization until sometime in the 1990s. so now the claim is that the 1965 money covered the comfort women, even though at the time japan did (or would have) denied it. sounds specious, to me, but the rok-japan agreement may be solid enough to let them off the hook.
recognizing that the 1965 agreement was meant to cover this but that it is also a sticking point (for obvious reasons), i think the korean and japanese governments should both work out a way to jointly pay compensate these women.
as for yasukuni, it’s not merely honoring their war dead and you know that. it’s honoring a dozen class-a war criminals who wreaked havoc across east asia, making them responsible for the deaths of millions. that in and of itself belies any apology given. this is not just my opinion, gerry, it’s also the opinion of the japanese opposition. yes, the opposition in japan, the country you so blindly love simply because so many in korea feel so much animosity toward it.
Mr Bevers. The government in place at the time of the compenstation in 1965 was a dictatorship and cannot be said to be acting on behalf of the Korean people. Japan should apologize for the Tokto fiasco as their own documents prior to questionable WW2 agreements prove their claims are wrong. Man you have a serious hate for Korea…….get help mate.
steve,
the fact that it was a dictatorship is probably immaterial in terms of international law. legally speaking, the rok-japan agreement in 1965 allows japan to wash its hands of the comfort women and any other compensation-related issue. legally speaking, that is. that’s what mr. bevers will continue to point out, and he’s right.
however, given that the japanese government denied involvement with the comfort women mobilization until the 1990s (when japanese historians found the records proving them to be lying) and that no comfort women were present at the negotiations that supposedly signed away their claims, there is certainly an ethical argument that the 1965 agreement did not in spirit or in actuality represent them. japan at some point needs to realize that the ‘legal’ thing is not necessarily the ‘right thing,’ and work with korea (which, by signing the 1965 agreement and accepting the money, does in fact owe the comfort women something) to find a way to adequately compensate these women.
as for mr. bevers, yes, it’s probably true that he hates korea, but he loves the women, so it all evens out in the end.
the comfort women…
it is a sad fact but there always are comfort women in any war.
the issue here was whether or not they were forcefully taken to the sad situation. as i wrote in other thread, majority of comfort women to japanese ary were japaese, and some koreans and some chinese, and still i could not find relevant proof that those women, regardless of natioalities, were forcefully to be comfort women.
in ’90’s suddenly the comfort women became the issue by some ambitious japanese journalists, who were later found fabricating the facts.
and mr.kono, the secretary general to the p.m(i am not so sure about accurate title) made a speach that he was sorry for mobilizig comfort women. then japaese govt made research if there was actually a “forceful” mobilization, and could not find reliable evidence. and the research included interview with those who claimed they were “forcefully mobilized”. could be fabrication by japanese govt, i dont have enough evidence to make myself convinced too.
i think we should separate politics and humanitarian support.
no matter how inhuman the rok govt was in ‘65, the agreement between the govts should be respected, and it covered “forceful mobilization” includig factory workers and comfort women, if any.
on the other hand a japanse ngo set up a supporting fund for those comfort women to which only a few koreans claimed.
please dont think japaese(or its govt) has not done anything about it.
as for yasukuni, as i repeatedly said, it is cultural difference even though i know there are some politically motivated persons to use this. mojority of japs just want to pray for the dead souls who fought for the country.
There are some issues that may never be settled but I hope Japan and Korea can at least concentrate on issues that can be worked through.
Dokdo is a tough issue but saying Japan must give up its claim (which it believes to be just) is hard to swallow. It would be like Japan asking Korea to give up its claim on Dokdo. How would Korea feel about that? Would Korea give up its claim? NO! Then why should Japan?
Textbooks are another issue in this. Again how would Korea feel if another country told them they had to change their textbooks? Let us say Vietnam demanded Korea talk about the gruesome atrocities some Korean soldiers committed in Vietnam to Korean middle school students even though all textbooks covered it in High School. Obviously any and all countries would tell that other country to mind its own business. I find it absurd that another country demand another country change their history textbooks. Korea wouldn’t take it. Why should Japan?
I think it is ridicules that a country tells another country it can’t honor its war dead. Again you can believe people go there to honor 12 class A war criminals or that they go there to honor the 100,000s of countrymen that gave their lives to their country or to honor a family member. If you honestly think people go there to respect those 12 war criminals and not to respect the war dead in general or family members you got some issues.
The 1965 agreement specified compensation was to cover all compensation and future compensation requests from Korea. Korea did sign the agreement. Why should Japan pay AGAIN if the agreement specified it covers ALL compensation and future compensation and Korea already agreed to that?
If another country demanded the things Korea is demanding of Japan, Korea would be outraged and would not give in to the other country?€™s demands. Why not concentrate on the issues that can help Japan and Korea come closer together rather than concentrating on these issues from the past? Roh said he wanted to look toward the future and not the past. Well?€?all these issues are based from the past. It is time to look towards the future.
sa hwa dong,
i think majority of people, in any country, dont care about policy or belief on foreign affaires or internatioal relationship of candidates when they vote. (or is it only japs?)
ldp in japan has been providing quite attractive policy for farmers, who are quite united when it comes to elections.
but it does not mean majority of japs are ultra-rights.
Do you still believe “Nanking Massacre of 300,000 people”?
How was the corpse of 300,000 people first put away?
Five journalists remained in Nan?½?ng on December 12 of the Nan?½?ng surrender.
Dardin of N?½?Y times, McDaniel of Associated Press, Artiborldostel of Chicago daily news, and Reuter, and Smith of a British news agency and Arthur Menken of The Paramount and the newsreel.
Besides this, it returns to Nanjing again on the 15th on the way of that and it covers though journalist McDonald of London times is accommodated because the Pana title sank once, and returns to Shanghai on the 17th.
They did not say that they had seen the corpse everyone 300,000.
China said that corpses were burnt with gasoline.
Then, where was gasoline that burnt 300,000 corpses brought?
And, is it found by nobody and very did it burn?
Because no one meant the thing at that time.
as for yasukuni, as i repeatedly said, it is cultural difference even though i know there are some politically motivated persons to use this. mojority of japs just want to pray for the dead souls who fought for the country.
Yasukuni Jinja is not like driving on the left, or taking your shoes off before going inside. It cannot reasonably said to be some politically neutral monument to innocent Japanese who died during the war. Its web page is online, what’s on display there is well known (I vaguely remember some kind of “human torpedo” there). I think it might be better called “æ??æœ?æ???Œ???½?¿???† ????‰??¤¨;” it’s certainly more accurate than “peaceful country shrine.”
Anyway, the war ended six decades ago, not too many people remember the war, and soon not too many people will be alive who even knew people who died during the war. What’s the point of continuously nursing this particular grudge, and especially when it gets in the way of friendly relations with the rest of the world? It’s absolutely true that Koreans and Chinese have to forgive things and move on, but it’s no less true that the Japanese have to do so as well.
jyc
that’s exactly the differece in culture. i dont know which country you are from but japanese and koreans go to a graveyard of ancesters at least 2 times a year.
i personally take my family to yasukuni every new year day, pray for my family’s happiness as well as for the dead soul. and i am no ultra-right exceptioal japs. you should go and see how many japs are visiting yasukuni on the first 3 days of new year.
some may go without knowing the real meaning of yasukuni itself, thou.
I am not good at English.
And, it made a mistake a little.
?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°
You know. The soldier and Japan of people who lived in Taiwan fought in Nankng.
?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°
This of ?†‘
Do you know?
The serviceman who lives in a Japanese army and Taiwan is WW? in Nankng.
I don’t agree about the 1965 agreement being legally airtight. If so it wouldn’t explain money recently being paid out to Koreans (in 2000) who were used as slaves in Japanese factories during the war. In January 2005 Korean slave workers were compensated for being exposed to radiation during the bombing of Hiroshima. Apparently even some Japanese lower courts don’t agree this document covers all claims. Precedents are set every day and this issue is far from resolved….
Was the compensation you referred to in your post (number 53) paid by the Japanese government or by private companies? I know there was a suit against Mitsubishi for forced labor, but I don’t recall that there was a decision.
In any event, the ‘65 normalization agreement would not cover private claims made by the individuals affected against Japanese companies or their successors in interest. Furthermore, the eleventh circuit (U.S.) is increasingly hospitable to claims such as those of the comfort women, so even if Japan’s courts refuse to give them a hearing (as they did with the survivors of the Bataan death march), there are alternate venues for seeking redress.
Another question for anyone that cares to answer: for all the talk about “Our Grandmothers”, has the RoK government done much for the comfort women since 1965? The book “Sex Among Allies” seems to suggest that Park and successive governments have been complicit in keeping the issue under wraps, as indeed, were some Koreans in assisting the “recruitment” of comfort women, but I really don’t know. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to any information.
the korean government has, to my knowledge, done very little for the comfort women. i think there are several reasons, including the fact that aiding them would seem to be tacit acknowledgement that it’s rok’s responsibility and not japan’s, plus taking away the women’s need would make their case before japan seem less pressing.
i don’t know if park tried to keep the issue under wraps or not, but i can’t imagine that in korea of the 1960s that many of these women would have been forthcoming. most, from what i’ve read or heard (i have met some at ‘the house of sharing’) were trying desperately to hide and forget about what had happened to them.
It is a Japanese novelist of the name called Seiji Mr Yoshida that produced the word
said, “Women forced to provide sex for Japanese soldiers at military brothels during
World War II” first.
He admitted that the thing being written there was a lie later.
The thing might not be being told by the person in South Korea.
When military forces of the home country took a prostitute in foreign countries,What country is making amends to the country where the prostitute was born?
After World War II, the U.S. military information part examines other party’s
of a Japanese army prostitute’s realities.
300?1000 yen ..the broker (And, management is the main)… women
Loan money is paid to parents, and the debt is restored by the income
in the comfort place.
The income distribution ratio to the manager is 40?
60%.
It is each money at that time and women’s work is 1000?2000 yen in
month.
The salary of the soldier of a Japanese army is 25 yen for 15 days.
World War II ended and 20 years passed.
The novelization of one person published “Women forced to provide sex
for Japanese soldiers at military brothels during World War II” in
the newspaper.
He admitted that it was a lie being investigated the thing that he
had written later.
However, the person in South Korea doesn’t know the thing.
The person in South Korea did not know the thing of Japan-Korea Basic
Relations Treaty in 1965 for a long time.
After the event of the Gwangju city, was not the anti-japan education done as for
South Korea?
The 19 January Hiroshima Supreme Court verdict in the lawsuit brought by A-bomb victims who had been conscripted as forced laborers at Mitsubishi’s Hiroshima Heavy Industries was epoch making. Overturning an earlier ruling, it ordered the government to pay each appellant 1,200,000 yen. In a series of post-war compensation trials that rejected all claims by the plaintiffs, this was the first ruling to order the government to pay compensation. http://www.zmag.org/content/sh.....temID=7525
So much for the 1965 agreement. You may note some of the plantiffs had since passed away however compensation was also paid to the deceased victims. It is also significant that the the court rejected the idea that the state is inviolable or immune against legal action on the behalf of those who have been victimized during WWII. I think this is a big precedent.
After reading the article in the link you posted, I don’t think I can be as sanguine about the future prospects of plaintiffs in Japanese courts as you seem to be. After all, according to the article: “In the end, however, [the court] concluded that because of a lack of justiciability, the statute of limitations, and the Property Rights Measures Law based on the Japan-Korea Treaty on the Right of Claim, the plaintiffs’ right to claim compensation had been extinguished.” Notwithstanding the commentary on the inviobility of the state (and here, I think, we are dealing with dicta that the Japanese Supreme Court would reject out of hand, as it does whenever that particular question is presented), it seems the 1965 agreement will continue to block attempts at obtaining relief by affected parties. Note that the Government must now pay the plaintiffs for what we might call in the U.S. a violation of “equal protection”, not for the forced labor exacted from them.
If the plaintiffs had chosen to sue Mitsubishi in California, I imagine the outcome might have been different, as it was with the Holocaust survivors in their suits against VW and Daimler.
Even if a very true thing is taught, the taught thing might be a useless thing in
people who do not believe it.
It might be a thing the same if the people do not have the international
agreement either.
Hereafter, Japan wants to help Asia and Africa where economy has not revived yet.
It is thought that the selection is an important thing on international.
A lot of poverties causes various disputes.
China and South Korea have revived economy enough. It is necessary to hold out by
our power now.
There are individually various cases respectively.
Many have already been examined.
Moreover, the trial is done.
It is handful from Cheju Island in forcible as for 200 women.
And, it made it to the prostitute for a Japanese soldier.
The thing called these things a lie is not changed.
There was other party’s of Japanese soldiers prostitute.
Those women had various circumstances.
There was Korean persons in that, too.
It searches for the information part of the U.S.Army in postwar days, and Japan is searching
afterwards, and more various organizations are and there is an examination.
Therefore, the novelist confessed that he or she had written the lie.
This is examined.
A lot of people might have been poor.
It is very difficult to show a lot of examined material to this conduct oneself.
It is because most is being written in Japanese.
Because I am not good at English, they cannot be translated.
Is Japanese material acceptable?
Will Japan understand the destination of ODA of Japan is changed more than the material that
doesn’t understand well is fully shown?
The conclusion is it.
Japan has done very a lot of help of China and South Korea up to now.
This thing was not being told by people of the two countries.
The thing might have circumstances of each country.
However, the thing that Japan helps to poor countrys of Asia and Africa now is a thing that takes in the
world and is very important.
Korea News via Google
63 Comments
Don’t mean to derail the post but…..
I haven’t seen any of this article covered in Korean newspapers.
Comments?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7594240/
Thanks for the link Mr. Sickboy. Don’t think Koizumi’s apology will be played up on KBS News tonight–Korea has selective amnesia about apologies from Japanese PMs.
Jin, I said here before that any apology Koizumi or his government issues (two in recent months) should be used by Korea as an opportunity to get a substantial resolution to its grievances, but I suspect the Korean gov’t and media prefer to keep the issue ongoing rather than work with Japan. That’s what I meant by “selective amnesia.”
Michael, what matters here is not words but actions. Considering the fact that the Meiji government clearly stated Tokdo/Takeshima is not Japan’s but Chosun’s, the only support for Japan’s claim of the island comes from Shimane’s declaration in 1905. Queen Min was brutally murdered by the Japanese about a decade before 1905 so it is apparent that the Chosun emperor did not have any power in 1905. Not only Koreans, but also respected liberal Japanese media, such as Asahi Shimbun and Sekai, consider this 1905 declaration to be the beginning of Japan’s official colonization of Korea. Germany’s apologies would be futile if Germany still claims part of France and its PM visits Hitler’s shrine every year.
jin,
You left out Japan lying about its atrocities at Nanjing. The Japanese pretend to be calm and peaceful on the outside, but deepdown they are liars, landgrabbers and warmongers.
The Westerners just don’t know the real Japanese.
Typical Korean propaganda, but I think this just about perfectly describes Korea’s complaint.
http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....012810.htm
Most Koreans and Chinese will try very hard to ignore this apology and do everything they can to take this sincere conciliatory step and make it into something else.
It is nice to see Japan reaching out yet AGAIN to improve relations but it just doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what Japan says or does. Most Koreans and Chinese will not let go of their victim status and hate.
Baduk said
“You left out Japan lying about its atrocities at Nanjing. The Japanese pretend to be calm and peaceful on the outside, but deepdown they are liars, landgrabbers and warmongers.
The Westerners just don?€™t know the real Japanese.”
The US and other western countries definitely felt the sins of Japan during Pearl Harbor and WWII. The difference is America can tell the difference between the Japan 60 years ago and the peaceful mature democracy it is now. Maybe it is Korea that just doesn’t know the real Japan yet.
Yes 60 years ago Japan was a warmongering, land grabbing lying state. Over the last 60 years Japan has not started one war, Japan has not grabbed any land. I’m pretty sure Japan has lied about something over the past 60 years but name one country that hasn’t. Over the past 60 years China has started multiple wars and grabbed multiple peoples’ lands.
As far as the textbook issue goes Japan does mention Nanjing and atrocities in the middle school textbook that will be in .3% of schools. But does not go into the gruesome detail it once did. They save the terrible gruesome details for high school which I believe to be perfectly acceptable. All countries do this to some degree. Certainly Korea does. Most middle school Koreans seem to thing King Sejong invented Hangul all by himself without any help from any scholar, Korean independence fighters single handedly won Korea’s independence from Japan, and know nothing about Korean atrocities in Vietnam. I would like to say they would save the brutal atrocities Koreans did to Vietnam for high school students but Korea still whitewashes that. You can take Japan’s worst textbook and Korea?€™s/China’s best textbook and Japan would still have the better textbook.
NonKorean,
I agree. All three countries, China, Korea and Japan are similar; we are liars, land grabbers and warmongers in some degree.
However, China and Korea are conditioned in Confucian and Buddhist teachings. Many are Christians. We show mercy and degree of respect for other human beings.
For the Japanese, their samurais and ninjas are cold-blooded killers. Their Shinto god allows them to be merciless and cruel. Their elitist mentality brings unspeakable atrocities. What they did in Nanjing is a good example. When I read wickipedia reference on Nanjing and especially about “intest” part, tears welled inside me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
There is a difference.
Korean PM’s reaction after Koizumi’s apology.
“An apology must be accompanied by an Action”
What a shameless begger…
???™¸?????´??¤!
[...] riends, is politics. UPDATE III: Marmot hasnt even mentioned the apology yet, but theres already an off-topic discussion ongoing [...]
???™¸?????´??¤!
You got me, what does that mean?
“For the Japanese, their samurais and ninjas are cold-blooded killers. Their Shinto god allows them to be merciless and cruel.”
Baduk, I think maybe you watch too much anime.
No, he is an anime character.
???™¸?????´??¤!
translates to roughly, “For Export Only”
Baduk…you keep saying what you feel in your heart…I read postings by retards like nonkorean(that’s why he’s so retarded I bet) think how can they say shit like…
“Most Koreans and Chinese will try very hard to ignore this apology and do everything they can to take this sincere conciliatory step and make it into something else. It is nice to see Japan reaching out yet AGAIN to improve relations but it just doesn?€™t matter. It doesn?€™t matter what Japan says or does. Most Koreans and Chinese will not let go of their victim status and hate….”
One can capitalize all the letters for emphasis but none of these “reach out AGAIN” to Korea is sincere nor backed by any substantial resolution such as withdrawal of the takeshima day declaration or teaching the truth about Nanjing massacre (see below) People like nonkorean reminds me of same idiots Iris had to challenge to shed some light to the atrocities of the past…if you have ever had the chance to see the pix mentioned below, even the most facetious right-wing war crime deniers will cringe at their own evil…
http://tinyurl.com/7z85q
I don’t buy that arbusto cock-sucking piece of shit kakamamy Koizumi’s apology at all…it’s so fucking obvious he’s lying like a sack of assturd he already is.
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”
Voltaire.
I don’t know which Shinto god you worship, but mine keeps asking me for 5 yen coins…
LOVE LING JAPAN- Koreans Buddhist? Baduk- take your head out of your ass! Only in Korea are “buddhist” caught embezzling money- look at maramots post about it- other buddhist in the world are appaled by the Korean “buddhist” audacity and twisting of beliefs- Koreans ahve their own speacial religion called “fanaticism” in which they act like drama queens over anything that doesn’t go there way (did you see the picture of the guy with the Hammer trying to break into the Japanese embassy?) give it a break shitbrick….
email= businessteacher1@hotmail.com
dave fams wrote:
Baduk- take your head out of your ass! Only in Korea are ?€œbuddhist?€? caught embezzling money- look at maramots post about it- other buddhist in the world are appaled by the Korean ?€œbuddhist?€? audacity and twisting of beliefs-
japanese buddhist clergy caught up in foreign ministry embezzlement scandal
american buddhist leader transmits aids to some of his followers
thai abbott accused fraud, embezzlement, and corruption
allegations that those collecting money to rebuild buddhist temples there are embezzling some of the money
al gore’s infamous campaign problem involving buddhist nuns
etc., etc.
baduk goes off the deep end sometimes, dave, but that doesn’t mean you have to follow him.
Jin, we’re talking past each other here–I’m saying actions are exactly what China’s and Korea’s gov’ts should work with Japan on now that they have yet another apology, not toss it aside, which is what they’re doing. Use it as an overture, even if it wasn’t meant as one. Get something real accomplished in their relations, not grandstand and shout like perpetual victims. Anyway, the weather’s great in Seoul today, let’s go out and play!
Micheal, the Korean government and many Koreans have been working hard to improve ties with Japan. At the beginning of his term, Roh stated that he would not make issues with history issues such as Yasukuni or history textbooks. It’s Japan that made his stance change by declaring the Takeshima day. To Koreans, Koizumi’s apology won’t be considered valid until Japan withdraws its claim of Tokdo. What can be accomplished on the Korean side when Japan says sorry for its colonization of Korea while still claiming part of the Korean territory using the evidence of that colonization? What do you want Koreans to do to improve their relations on this issue? Even Japanese liberals side with Koreans on Tokdo and history textbook issues.
Aside from the Tokdo issue, Koreans have been and still are trying hard to befriend Japanese people. There are still a lot of Korea-Japan friendship events going on all over Korea (although some have been cancelled). And unlike China, Japanese tourists are still warmly welcomed by most Koreans. (visit enjoyjapan.naver.com and see Japanese tourists’ impressions of Korea on the “travel” board, if you can read Korean)
Jin, it’s really nice outside
— I went out for dinner and there’s no “hwangsa” in the sky…anyway, what I meant was the gov’t should say, “thanks for the aopology, now we’ll send some officials to Tokyo to get concrete proposals for better relations” or something to that effect. Everything you’ve been saying is basically right, I’m just frustrated that the gov’t here is long on rhetoric toward Japan and short on actions–now would be a prime opportunity with Koizumi’s apology.
nooooolji, you porch monkey, of course you’ll still read my posts, you’re a whore for attention….you “excommunicated me”? did some priest play with your wee-wee when you were young? that would explain some things
Micheal, I fail to see why the Korean government should say “thanks” for Koizumi’s apology, when there’s still a significant gap between his words and his actions. (On the day Koizumi issued an apology in Indonesia, 30 Japanese congressmen visited Yasukuni. How wonderful.) Anyway, Roh has recently said that, despite current conflicts with Japan, he would still like to meet Koizumi in person as soon as possible, and Koizumi replied favorably as well. They are supposed to meet each other in Seoul next month. I guess this was a good move on the Korean side.
P.S. it’s good to hear that there’s not much hwangsa in Seoul. I almost forgot what the weather was like in Korea during spring.. Have a good time there.
I am having a good time in Korea, thanks. Actually I’m at work, some downtime between the craziness. But at some point the gov’t has to on some level accept Japan’s apology, or why bother asking for it to show contrition? Roh already scheduled the meeting with Koizumi, it was supposed to be part of Korea-Japan Friendship Year (what a joke, eh?) but maybe at that time Roh can make the kind of specific demands I was talking about–not that I have much hope of that.
michael wrote:
Jin, it?€™s really nice outside ?€” I went out for dinner and there?€™s no ?€œhwangsa?€? in the sky?€?anyway, what I meant was the gov?€™t should say, ?€œthanks for the aopology, now we?€™ll send some officials to Tokyo to get concrete proposals for better relations?€? or something to that effect. Everything you?€™ve been saying is basically right, I?€™m just frustrated that the gov?€™t here is long on rhetoric toward Japan and short on actions?€“now would be a prime opportunity with Koizumi?€™s apology.
i think you’re absolutely right. but one of those proposals would be to really show the words mean something by working out something with yasukuni (e.g., no visits by government officials or removing the class-a war criminals’ names from the shrine), and i don’t think a lot of the ldp will go for that. the fact that about eighty of them decided to visit on the same news of koizumi’s apology came out may not be a coincidence (is it? i’m really asking).
nooooolji, you porch monkey, of course you?€™ll still read my posts, you?€™re a whore for attention?€?.you ?€œexcommunicated me?€?? did some priest play with your wee-wee when you were young? that would explain some things
that’s really uncalled for. not funny at all.
Hey Nora, it’s flattering to be quoted
The reports here said it really was coincidental that those guys went to the shrine, it was scheduled beforehand, but whatever, it could have at least been postponed, right?
Hey Nora, it?€™s flattering to be quoted
i should start charging money for endorsements.
The reports here said it really was coincidental that those guys went to the shrine, it was scheduled beforehand, but whatever, it could have at least been postponed, right?
perhaps it was just a coincidence (but rightists in the ldp tried to undermine murayama’s apology, too).
still, it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that if koizumi is serious, he could get his own party members to postpone or, better yet, forgo the visit. i really do want this to be put behind us (a la kim daejung and obuchi in 1998), but there’s a big danger that koizumi’s words are going to seem very empty if this kind of stuff is happening at the same time.
Nora, I should charge to be quoted
Like I said to Jin, why doesn’t the gov’t here (hell, in Beijing as well) make the apology binding by sending officials to Tokyo with specific proposals, like a general relief fund for WWII victims (to get around Japanese court lawsuit dismissals), a pan-Asian school curriculum (wouldn’t that be, umm, interesting) and even a sort of Asian Union, like the EU, which would make “adventures” by any one country (including China) less likely? Actually that’s probably asking too much from the region–the EU itself is hardly singing in harmony, but Korea especially, if Roh wants to play the “balancing” role, could take the initiative for a change, rather than letting Japan yank its chain as it does now.
Forgive me if I’m wrong. Isn’t the very reason that the wing goverments have dominated in Japan that is the problem fundalmentally? Of course in a democracy, people have the right to vote for who they want. But year after year, nationalist right wingers that deny Japan’s role in pre war era have dominated Japan and have heavily influenced their policies. But the Japanese voters don’t seem to mind voting for people like the governor of Tokyo. I think that says volumes about the mindset of Japan, and that’s why they would say one thing that come out of their mouths and then do something else to contradict what they just said. Would the Germans vote in people who were ex-Nazis? I don’t think so.
again, michael, i think you are right about what korea (and china) need to do next. korea and china have legitimate complaints, and koizumi, at least in words, says that he understands the complaint. now is the time to propose something constructive.
the apology means nothing since it’s empty. enough with japan apologizing while other government officials disolve such an apology the yasoooookoooooneee way. time for action not words:
1. stop approving history books that gloss over what japan has done to OTHERS.
2. stop visiting yasooodoomi or remove class a war criminals from it’s bowels.
3. set up memorial to teach japanese about their shameful behavior.
4. stop allowing prefectures to conduct foreign policy.
5. compensate comfort women.
see how easy that would be?
Wow the more Japan does to conciliate ties with Korea, the longer the list gets with Korean demands. What a surprise Japan’s apology is either not sincere, or doesn’t really matter to Koreans now. Funny it seemed to matter a lot just a week ago. The ever changing Korean yardstick is moving yet AGAIN.
nonkorean wrote:
Wow the more Japan does to conciliate ties with Korea, the longer the list gets with Korean demands. What a surprise Japan?€™s apology is either not sincere, or doesn?€™t really matter to Koreans now. Funny it seemed to matter a lot just a week ago. The ever changing Korean yardstick is moving yet AGAIN.
an apology is meaningless if there is no substance behind it. and the substance (yasukuni, comfort women, territorial disputes) is not new, ever changing, or a growing list. they have been around for some time and the ldp has been hoping they would go away.
yes, there are some people who want to keep milking antipathy toward japan until the cows come home, but a lot of people want to see japanese officialdom apologize and actually mean it. when eighty ldp lawmakers visit yasukuni on the same day koizumi issues the words to the apology, it calls its value into question.
i think south korea needs to go back to the spirit of the kim daejung-obuchi agreement to put the past behind us, in part because china is very, very scary.
but it’s very hard to do that when the apologies and acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the past, on which the agreement was made, are muddied by actions from the right wing that contradict the spirit of the agreement.
I really wouldn’t put noolji’s demands as representing the entire peninsula, and anyway, about half of them are longstanding issues, in some cases for decades.
I’ll repeat my analogy that Yasukuni Jinja is like having a monument to people who want to revive the Confederacy. It doesn’t matter that that particular government was completely defeated and discredited a very long time ago, there is still a small, stubborn element in Japan that just won’t get over it.
None of this would really be a problem if Yasukuni was just some tiny private cult headquarters, as it properly should be. In reality, however, Yasukuni Shugi (?¸??¾??¼‰continues to some degree to be officially endorsed. A lot of people would justifiably be unhappy if a US president insisted on visiting a shrine to the Confederacy, and the Yasukuni visits deserve the same opprobrium.
Nora,
Japan has paid wartime reparations and given apologizes to the comfort women. Korea and China need to grow up and stop scrounging for more money in that regard.
As for Yasukuni and Tokdo, why should the Japanese apologize for honoring their war dead and for claiming territory they believe is theirs?
the japanese paid reparations to korea in 1965, but they denied any involvement in the comfort women mobilization until sometime in the 1990s. so now the claim is that the 1965 money covered the comfort women, even though at the time japan did (or would have) denied it. sounds specious, to me, but the rok-japan agreement may be solid enough to let them off the hook.
recognizing that the 1965 agreement was meant to cover this but that it is also a sticking point (for obvious reasons), i think the korean and japanese governments should both work out a way to jointly pay compensate these women.
as for yasukuni, it’s not merely honoring their war dead and you know that. it’s honoring a dozen class-a war criminals who wreaked havoc across east asia, making them responsible for the deaths of millions. that in and of itself belies any apology given. this is not just my opinion, gerry, it’s also the opinion of the japanese opposition. yes, the opposition in japan, the country you so blindly love simply because so many in korea feel so much animosity toward it.
Mr Bevers. The government in place at the time of the compenstation in 1965 was a dictatorship and cannot be said to be acting on behalf of the Korean people. Japan should apologize for the Tokto fiasco as their own documents prior to questionable WW2 agreements prove their claims are wrong. Man you have a serious hate for Korea…….get help mate.
steve,
the fact that it was a dictatorship is probably immaterial in terms of international law. legally speaking, the rok-japan agreement in 1965 allows japan to wash its hands of the comfort women and any other compensation-related issue. legally speaking, that is. that’s what mr. bevers will continue to point out, and he’s right.
however, given that the japanese government denied involvement with the comfort women mobilization until the 1990s (when japanese historians found the records proving them to be lying) and that no comfort women were present at the negotiations that supposedly signed away their claims, there is certainly an ethical argument that the 1965 agreement did not in spirit or in actuality represent them. japan at some point needs to realize that the ‘legal’ thing is not necessarily the ‘right thing,’ and work with korea (which, by signing the 1965 agreement and accepting the money, does in fact owe the comfort women something) to find a way to adequately compensate these women.
as for mr. bevers, yes, it’s probably true that he hates korea, but he loves the women, so it all evens out in the end.
the comfort women…
it is a sad fact but there always are comfort women in any war.
the issue here was whether or not they were forcefully taken to the sad situation. as i wrote in other thread, majority of comfort women to japanese ary were japaese, and some koreans and some chinese, and still i could not find relevant proof that those women, regardless of natioalities, were forcefully to be comfort women.
in ’90’s suddenly the comfort women became the issue by some ambitious japanese journalists, who were later found fabricating the facts.
and mr.kono, the secretary general to the p.m(i am not so sure about accurate title) made a speach that he was sorry for mobilizig comfort women. then japaese govt made research if there was actually a “forceful” mobilization, and could not find reliable evidence. and the research included interview with those who claimed they were “forcefully mobilized”. could be fabrication by japanese govt, i dont have enough evidence to make myself convinced too.
i think we should separate politics and humanitarian support.
no matter how inhuman the rok govt was in ‘65, the agreement between the govts should be respected, and it covered “forceful mobilization” includig factory workers and comfort women, if any.
on the other hand a japanse ngo set up a supporting fund for those comfort women to which only a few koreans claimed.
please dont think japaese(or its govt) has not done anything about it.
as for yasukuni, as i repeatedly said, it is cultural difference even though i know there are some politically motivated persons to use this. mojority of japs just want to pray for the dead souls who fought for the country.
There are some issues that may never be settled but I hope Japan and Korea can at least concentrate on issues that can be worked through.
Dokdo is a tough issue but saying Japan must give up its claim (which it believes to be just) is hard to swallow. It would be like Japan asking Korea to give up its claim on Dokdo. How would Korea feel about that? Would Korea give up its claim? NO! Then why should Japan?
Textbooks are another issue in this. Again how would Korea feel if another country told them they had to change their textbooks? Let us say Vietnam demanded Korea talk about the gruesome atrocities some Korean soldiers committed in Vietnam to Korean middle school students even though all textbooks covered it in High School. Obviously any and all countries would tell that other country to mind its own business. I find it absurd that another country demand another country change their history textbooks. Korea wouldn’t take it. Why should Japan?
I think it is ridicules that a country tells another country it can’t honor its war dead. Again you can believe people go there to honor 12 class A war criminals or that they go there to honor the 100,000s of countrymen that gave their lives to their country or to honor a family member. If you honestly think people go there to respect those 12 war criminals and not to respect the war dead in general or family members you got some issues.
The 1965 agreement specified compensation was to cover all compensation and future compensation requests from Korea. Korea did sign the agreement. Why should Japan pay AGAIN if the agreement specified it covers ALL compensation and future compensation and Korea already agreed to that?
If another country demanded the things Korea is demanding of Japan, Korea would be outraged and would not give in to the other country?€™s demands. Why not concentrate on the issues that can help Japan and Korea come closer together rather than concentrating on these issues from the past? Roh said he wanted to look toward the future and not the past. Well?€?all these issues are based from the past. It is time to look towards the future.
reread my message…it’s shame…sorry for so many misspelling and messy english, as usual.
sa hwa dong,
i think majority of people, in any country, dont care about policy or belief on foreign affaires or internatioal relationship of candidates when they vote. (or is it only japs?)
ldp in japan has been providing quite attractive policy for farmers, who are quite united when it comes to elections.
but it does not mean majority of japs are ultra-rights.
Do you still believe “Nanking Massacre of 300,000 people”?
How was the corpse of 300,000 people first put away?
Five journalists remained in Nan?½?ng on December 12 of the Nan?½?ng surrender.
Dardin of N?½?Y times, McDaniel of Associated Press, Artiborldostel of Chicago daily news, and Reuter, and Smith of a British news agency and Arthur Menken of The Paramount and the newsreel.
Besides this, it returns to Nanjing again on the 15th on the way of that and it covers though journalist McDonald of London times is accommodated because the Pana title sank once, and returns to Shanghai on the 17th.
They did not say that they had seen the corpse everyone 300,000.
China said that corpses were burnt with gasoline.
Then, where was gasoline that burnt 300,000 corpses brought?
And, is it found by nobody and very did it burn?
Because no one meant the thing at that time.
Please read here.
http://jpn.dyndns.ws/~nanking/books_wardamage.html
as for yasukuni, as i repeatedly said, it is cultural difference even though i know there are some politically motivated persons to use this. mojority of japs just want to pray for the dead souls who fought for the country.
Yasukuni Jinja is not like driving on the left, or taking your shoes off before going inside. It cannot reasonably said to be some politically neutral monument to innocent Japanese who died during the war. Its web page is online, what’s on display there is well known (I vaguely remember some kind of “human torpedo” there). I think it might be better called “æ??æœ?æ???Œ???½?¿???† ????‰??¤¨;” it’s certainly more accurate than “peaceful country shrine.”
Anyway, the war ended six decades ago, not too many people remember the war, and soon not too many people will be alive who even knew people who died during the war. What’s the point of continuously nursing this particular grudge, and especially when it gets in the way of friendly relations with the rest of the world? It’s absolutely true that Koreans and Chinese have to forgive things and move on, but it’s no less true that the Japanese have to do so as well.
jyc
that’s exactly the differece in culture. i dont know which country you are from but japanese and koreans go to a graveyard of ancesters at least 2 times a year.
i personally take my family to yasukuni every new year day, pray for my family’s happiness as well as for the dead soul. and i am no ultra-right exceptioal japs. you should go and see how many japs are visiting yasukuni on the first 3 days of new year.
some may go without knowing the real meaning of yasukuni itself, thou.
Where exactly in Tokyo is the Yasukuni Shrine located? Is it open to the public?
I apologize.
I am not good at English.
And, it made a mistake a little.
?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°
You know. The soldier and Japan of people who lived in Taiwan fought in Nankng.
?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°?½°
This of ?†‘
Do you know?
The serviceman who lives in a Japanese army and Taiwan is WW? in Nankng.
Just to demonstrate that quack revisionism isn’t only an issue on the Japanese side, check out Michelle Malkin’s In Defense of Internment.
Fortunately this viewpoint now receives a lot less official support in America.
Yasukuni Shrine is in Tokyo.
Yasukuni Shrine is open to the public.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/iidabas.....zinzya.htm
http://www.walkerplus.com/hana.....S1319.html
The person who came to Yasukuni Shrine writes the name in the note. You may not
write this even if it writes.
There might be a lot of people who do not write.
The number of people of people who wrote in Yasukuni Shrine is 6,000,000or more in one year.
I do not write the name though I go to the nearby Shinto shrine twice a year.
The reason for the place prepared to write the name is that there are a lot of
remote places.
I don’t agree about the 1965 agreement being legally airtight. If so it wouldn’t explain money recently being paid out to Koreans (in 2000) who were used as slaves in Japanese factories during the war. In January 2005 Korean slave workers were compensated for being exposed to radiation during the bombing of Hiroshima. Apparently even some Japanese lower courts don’t agree this document covers all claims. Precedents are set every day and this issue is far from resolved….
japanese and koreans go to a graveyard of ancesters at least 2 times a year.
There is no “human torpedo” in most people’s ancestral graveyards.
Steve:
Was the compensation you referred to in your post (number 53) paid by the Japanese government or by private companies? I know there was a suit against Mitsubishi for forced labor, but I don’t recall that there was a decision.
In any event, the ‘65 normalization agreement would not cover private claims made by the individuals affected against Japanese companies or their successors in interest. Furthermore, the eleventh circuit (U.S.) is increasingly hospitable to claims such as those of the comfort women, so even if Japan’s courts refuse to give them a hearing (as they did with the survivors of the Bataan death march), there are alternate venues for seeking redress.
Another question for anyone that cares to answer: for all the talk about “Our Grandmothers”, has the RoK government done much for the comfort women since 1965? The book “Sex Among Allies” seems to suggest that Park and successive governments have been complicit in keeping the issue under wraps, as indeed, were some Koreans in assisting the “recruitment” of comfort women, but I really don’t know. I would appreciate it if you could direct me to any information.
the korean government has, to my knowledge, done very little for the comfort women. i think there are several reasons, including the fact that aiding them would seem to be tacit acknowledgement that it’s rok’s responsibility and not japan’s, plus taking away the women’s need would make their case before japan seem less pressing.
i don’t know if park tried to keep the issue under wraps or not, but i can’t imagine that in korea of the 1960s that many of these women would have been forthcoming. most, from what i’ve read or heard (i have met some at ‘the house of sharing’) were trying desperately to hide and forget about what had happened to them.
It is a Japanese novelist of the name called Seiji Mr Yoshida that produced the word
said, “Women forced to provide sex for Japanese soldiers at military brothels during
World War II” first.
He admitted that the thing being written there was a lie later.
The thing might not be being told by the person in South Korea.
When military forces of the home country took a prostitute in foreign countries,What country is making amends to the country where the prostitute was born?
After World War II, the U.S. military information part examines other party’s
of a Japanese army prostitute’s realities.
300?1000 yen ..the broker (And, management is the main)… women
Loan money is paid to parents, and the debt is restored by the income
in the comfort place.
The income distribution ratio to the manager is 40?
60%.
It is each money at that time and women’s work is 1000?2000 yen in
month.
The salary of the soldier of a Japanese army is 25 yen for 15 days.
World War II ended and 20 years passed.
The novelization of one person published “Women forced to provide sex
for Japanese soldiers at military brothels during World War II” in
the newspaper.
He admitted that it was a lie being investigated the thing that he
had written later.
However, the person in South Korea doesn’t know the thing.
The person in South Korea did not know the thing of Japan-Korea Basic
Relations Treaty in 1965 for a long time.
After the event of the Gwangju city, was not the anti-japan education done as for
South Korea?
The 19 January Hiroshima Supreme Court verdict in the lawsuit brought by A-bomb victims who had been conscripted as forced laborers at Mitsubishi’s Hiroshima Heavy Industries was epoch making. Overturning an earlier ruling, it ordered the government to pay each appellant 1,200,000 yen. In a series of post-war compensation trials that rejected all claims by the plaintiffs, this was the first ruling to order the government to pay compensation.
http://www.zmag.org/content/sh.....temID=7525
So much for the 1965 agreement. You may note some of the plantiffs had since passed away however compensation was also paid to the deceased victims. It is also significant that the the court rejected the idea that the state is inviolable or immune against legal action on the behalf of those who have been victimized during WWII. I think this is a big precedent.
Steve:
After reading the article in the link you posted, I don’t think I can be as sanguine about the future prospects of plaintiffs in Japanese courts as you seem to be. After all, according to the article: “In the end, however, [the court] concluded that because of a lack of justiciability, the statute of limitations, and the Property Rights Measures Law based on the Japan-Korea Treaty on the Right of Claim, the plaintiffs’ right to claim compensation had been extinguished.” Notwithstanding the commentary on the inviobility of the state (and here, I think, we are dealing with dicta that the Japanese Supreme Court would reject out of hand, as it does whenever that particular question is presented), it seems the 1965 agreement will continue to block attempts at obtaining relief by affected parties. Note that the Government must now pay the plaintiffs for what we might call in the U.S. a violation of “equal protection”, not for the forced labor exacted from them.
If the plaintiffs had chosen to sue Mitsubishi in California, I imagine the outcome might have been different, as it was with the Holocaust survivors in their suits against VW and Daimler.
Even if a very true thing is taught, the taught thing might be a useless thing in
people who do not believe it.
It might be a thing the same if the people do not have the international
agreement either.
Hereafter, Japan wants to help Asia and Africa where economy has not revived yet.
It is thought that the selection is an important thing on international.
A lot of poverties causes various disputes.
China and South Korea have revived economy enough. It is necessary to hold out by
our power now.
There are individually various cases respectively.
Many have already been examined.
Moreover, the trial is done.
It is handful from Cheju Island in forcible as for 200 women.
And, it made it to the prostitute for a Japanese soldier.
The thing called these things a lie is not changed.
There was other party’s of Japanese soldiers prostitute.
Those women had various circumstances.
There was Korean persons in that, too.
It searches for the information part of the U.S.Army in postwar days, and Japan is searching
afterwards, and more various organizations are and there is an examination.
Therefore, the novelist confessed that he or she had written the lie.
This is examined.
A lot of people might have been poor.
It is very difficult to show a lot of examined material to this conduct oneself.
It is because most is being written in Japanese.
Because I am not good at English, they cannot be translated.
Is Japanese material acceptable?
Will Japan understand the destination of ODA of Japan is changed more than the material that
doesn’t understand well is fully shown?
The conclusion is it.
Japan has done very a lot of help of China and South Korea up to now.
This thing was not being told by people of the two countries.
The thing might have circumstances of each country.
However, the thing that Japan helps to poor countrys of Asia and Africa now is a thing that takes in the
world and is very important.
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