Note to self: Never, ever fuck with these dudes. I mean, Christ, look at these photos! (props go out once again to OhMyNews photographer Kwon Woo-sung, who is simply the man).
Caption: Brandishing a hammer, HID Youth League member leaps at police during demonstration.
76 Comments
That guy in the picture with a hammer, he would have been shot dead by the police by now, if that happened in North America. I think the problem here is the police tolerance. Because the police are afraid of causing police abuses (like from past experiences of abuses by military and dictatorial governments), a lot of things are tolerated. This has lead to a protest culture.
Protests have become meaningless as each interest groups protest at a drop of a hat. The picture in the original thread we see is a political protest which may offend Japanese or American residents who may feel they are being targetted. But protests in Korea can be about anything other than political. For instance, if I don’t get my wages that I want, I’ll go out and protest. If I don’t want a mental institution built in my neighborhood, I’ll go out and protest. If I can’t get on that plane because the flight’s cancelled due to bad weather, I sure won’t let the airline get away with this bloody murder. I want I want I want. If I don’t get what I want from the government I’ll go out, make as much noise as possible and protest until I get my way. How do you nip this in the bud?
Iceberg, I’m guessing “YES”. Korea has gradually taken away the rights needed by the police to do their job.
sahwadong wrote:
I think the problem here is the police tolerance.
that’s right. we want more police brutality, and we want it now! and if we don’t get it, heads will roll, except they won’t.
what a conundrum.
Hiyaaaaaaaaaaah!
The brains of the police down there have not registered the situation yet. Look at their eyes… They’re like… Huh? Iz somethin’ goin’ on?
Why is it that it seems like it’s the disinfranchised who are doing these? There was that unemployed man who tried to burn himself in protest against Japan. Another homeless man commits suicide by jumping off the bridge in protest of Japan. The woman and her son who tried to cut off her finger, what was her story?
Koreans are such drama queens!
Having watched too much Old Boy, heh.
Koreans love drama. Very artistic bunch.
Sa Hwa Dong - Here’s a short story to second your opinion.
Yesterday afternoon I was waiting at a crosswalk in Jong-no when a middle-aged man with disheveled hair and a “not quite there” look in his eye hopscotched his way up the sidewalk. Thinking it wise, I kept a close eye on him as he approached. I noticed that he had two buttons pinned to his vest. One was a photo of Dokdo with the slogan “??????? ????? ???” written at the bottom and the other was a picture of the Japanese flag with a line drawn through it.
To my relief I soon learned that he did not have me in his sight. He passed by me and proceeded to unleash his fury on his target: an empty can of Pocari Sweat lying on the ground. That poor little can didn’t stand a chance as the man rained down one boot after another for a good sixty seconds. The Japanese icon had been stomped to smithereens. The finishing touch was to kick the flattened can into the rushing traffic so that it could endure further torture. Unfortunately, the fact that the can was now as thin as paper made kicking it difficult. But our patriot was determined. He finally made contact on his fourth attempt. Four tries. I found it to be quite symbolic that it was on the fourth swing of the man’s leg that the little can was sent soaring to its blacktop grave.
Let’s call for K-1 pay-per-view featuring this HID Youth League Member against Fujioka Nobukatsu, who deny the Nanjing massacre believe comfort women are as real as toothfairies. I got my whole $200 fed tax return (thnx unca sam) on the HID man…he looks scary…almost like one of those french mimes but no white make up…btw, miming his way into the riot sqaud to deck them with hammer would have worked better. As you know from history, Korean cops do not take demonstrators kindly…
I can’t wait to see the effects of the boycott of Japanese goods. I’m sick and tired of cheap Japanese beer, Sony hand phones and Korean streets flooded with Hondas and Toyotos.
This is disgusting. I fully support the right of people to protest and conduct peaceful demonstrations, but this went too far. Assaulting the police, death threats to the Japanese Ambassador and the destruction of property does not further their cause in the least. Perhaps I’m not taking into account the full history of Korean - Japanese history, but the former spies (who risked their lives by conducting operations in north Korea) apparently believe that Japan is now the “main enemy” vice north Korea. Perhaps Japan has replace north Korea as the “main enemy” in the ROKG. Would it stretch the immagination too far to believe that the demonstration was conducted with the full support of the ROKG due to its level of violence (fake bombs, what appears to be a shotgun, and death threats)? For Christ’s sake, what was that guy going to do with what appears to be a shotgun at a demonstration? This was beyond being “way over the top”. This had guidance and support from governmental handlers especially when you consider the use of fomer intelligence agents (once in the service, always of service to your country). Like I said before, this is disgusting. Speaking sarcastically, perhaps the only way to settle this is to send a UN peacekeeping force to occupy the island.
Sad to see it, but Koreans have a tremendous ability to dig their own hole. On CNN, BBC or whatever, Korean demonstrators just come off looking crazy, irrational, hateful, etc. Meanwhile, the economy, school system, and other areas of more pressing concern are being neglected. How’s that for patriotism?!
candu,
Every country has its own wack jobs. Korea has some too.
However, as you can see from this picture, there are 40 sane, normal, hard-working and church-going folks for every wack job.
So, do not generalize! One wacko is just one wacko; there are forty decent Koreans for every one of them.
Just curious…if the riot police had proceeded to beat the shit out of the hammer-wielding wacko, would he have been able to recover monetary damages from them according to Korean law?
Nora, I can’t speak for Sa Hwa Dong, but I wouldn’t suggest that it be the norm to exert violence toward protesters. Having said that however, I do think protesters flying through the air with hammers in their hands should be subject to the full fist of the law. And to extend this one step further (to touch on a topic from a couple of weeks ago), I don’t think anyone who initiates violence should be able to turn around and sue for damages simply because they received the worst beating. To me, that just doesn’t make sense. Can someone make sense of it for me?
iceberg,
my silly little comment was not to be taken seriously at all. i’m in a foul mood because i’m waiting for someone to deliver something that should have been sent two days ago. my whole f—ing weekend is ruined, and i’m taking it out on baduk and shazzam, with a little left over for sahwadong.
i think korea would be better off if the police got some backbone and started enforcing the laws. including laws against protestors jumping at cops with hammers.
does anyone know what happened to the hammer-wielding nut or the rifle-assembling nut? at least the pyongyang-appeasing nut was impeached.
Baduk, I realize that not all Koreans are wack jobs. I married one who isn’t, and I’m aware that that goes for the average person on the street as well. However, the wack jobs are front and central at demonstrations and that’s what people around the world see on a daily basis. Weapons, flag burning, self-mutilation, the lighting of LPG tanks, assaulting conscript riot cops, and other such images can detract from the actual issues being protested and make the protesters look like the bad guys. Unless a demonstration is intended to be some kind of masturbatory “FUBU”-style exercise, the impression of the intended audience of a protest should be considered a little more carefully. My point is that instead of drawing understanding and empathy from potentially sympathetic viewers internationally, Korean demonstrations tend to come off as violent, nationalistic hate-fests, the likes of which don’t give a positive impression of those involved - even if the cause is just - or the country on the whole. They demonstrators are either unaware of this or don’t care.
candu, you are absolutely right. these people are, all too often, the public face of korea. and a million well-made hyundais can’t always erase that.
but too many of the violent protestors see no value in good relations with japan or the united states and so they see no need to temper their behavior. many of them are true believers, they’ve drunk the kool-aid, and they actually see good relations with japan or the u.s. as a hindrance to korea’s true nature.
that’s the bad news. the good news is that koreans who read the korean papers look at the arguments of these people (if you can refer to shrill cries of anguish as ‘arguments’) and see it as about as helpful/normal/useful as the guy who killed himself to protest bush’s re-election. their views are rejected, and they get more and more shrill the more they realize (often subconsciously) that their violent, out-of-hand protests are inefficacious.
Nora, I think you’re right that some of the hardcore demonstrators are true believers in the sense that they would find a way to oppose to alsolutely anything the US or Japan do, and for some of them the more destructive things get, the better. For example, does someone who leaves and breathes to see every last US soldier off the peninsula really want a fair and equal revision of the SOFA? I think not.
the good news is that koreans who read the korean papers look at the arguments of these people (if you can refer to shrill cries of anguish as ??arguments??) and see it as about as helpful/normal/useful as the guy who killed himself to protest bush??s re-election.
I don’t really think this is necessarily the case as the Korean media, at least on TV, is highly inflammatory and unprofessional, and deserves a great deal of the blame for how this has turned out.
HID members are sad folks. The true victims of Sunshine policy. They are dinosaurs of the cold war era and now their pride had weathered away with fake wooden machineguns…
jyc, you might be right if you’re just talking about the evening news. not enough time to analyze things in detail. with papers, the internet, magazines, newsmagazines, talk radio, etc., however, one can get a larger picture.
when the woman and her son cut off their finger, for example, people were all over the sensational aspect of it. the next day (?) some tv show was pointing out that the woman’s husband had also done the same thing for some other issue sometime earlier. suddenly the focus shifted, to how this family was a bunch of publicity-seeking loons.
do the hid protest other things, like roh’s appeasement policies to the north or to china?
No doubt that the violent protest culture is due to police and tolerance by the law. If you attack an officer you should be going to jail- not just have a slap on the wrist.
These protesters have hit a new low.
Having a funeral and wishing an ambassador dead!!!!
It is just plain sick.
One has to wonder if this protest had support from elements of the government as kcbill06 suggests.
I think I have a crush on Nora. But, all for not.
Whie I agree that violence is not desirable in demonstrations, I can’t agree with the posters that say it is ineffective. Violence is effective, and will always remain so. I’m reminded of a saying I heard once: “Anyone who says violence doesn’t solve anything has obviously never killed before.”
So don’t knock it… ’til you tried it? Heh…
So are these guys breaking the law? Why are the police surrounding them? If they break the law then arrest them or fine them Don’t block them from getting near an embassy, wait for them to scale the wall or break the law and then take action. Look at me I’m going to cut off my finger? Okay.
physically assaulting someone with a weapon is a crime. what happened to these true believers after the photo was taken?
Violence can be effective, but not always. It can be counterproductive, sometimes having the opposite of the intended effect. Violent displays in Korean demonstrations attract a lot of international publicity, but I think they have the effect of making people think, “Man, look at those Koreans going crazy yet again” instead of “Gee, the Koreans may have a point about Japanese textbooks”. That’s pretty unfortunate.
i re-read the original article and answered my own question: “Police also seized two explosive devices without a detonator and arrested 27 people on the scene.”
we’ll have to wait and see how much jail time, if any, they get. with people like this, 300 police protecting the japanese embassy may not be enough.
This is very interesting. it seems that its not just koreans who like to set themselves on fire. maybe if we wait a litle bit longer we will see a finger or two chopped off…..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/new.....346989.htm
Kushibo, Why is the Roh media machine suddenly trying to brainwash everyone into believing their latest paranoic flight - the inevitability of a new “cold war” between Japan and China in which China and Japan suddenly get “territorial ambitions” in Asia and confront one another? In this fantasy world, Japan is the Asian point man for America and Korea is the only nation left to “balance” the competing powers (god help us all when we have to rely on erratic Korea for “balance”).
Not only is this more far-fetched than “Korea as the NE Asian hub” (which everyone has now dropped) but a word of warning is in order about allowing your mind to wander so madly that you begin to build a foreign policy with such paranoiac fantasies as the root assumptions.
Let the truth be told: Roh is not only severely intellectually challenged, but a mental case as well - his schizophrenic view of reality is dangerous and, what’s worse, highly contageous in Korea.
Nora, what we apparently need is more lesbian in the police force. The combination of toughness and brains would be hard to beat (no pun intended).
?橫Man, look at those Koreans going crazy yet again?? instead
of ??Gee, the Koreans may have a point about Japanese
textbooks??. That??s pretty unfortunate.
I see it as “Man, those Koreans are voicing the sentiments of the people who feel deeply passionate about this issue.” It’s more of a social (rather than political) message to people across sees who may be watching: Don’t trifle with our land, biatch! We are the attitude of a nation.
I don’t see this is as terribly upsetting at all. The people were arrested and dealt with, their message (as superficial as it may or may not be) has been sent, and I think they give a pulse to political discourse which can be lacking all too often. Sure, they could have rid themselves of the hammer but.. but..
Not everyone is into protests. Some enjoy entertainment.
Last year, it was “strawberry woman”(in the same page). This year may go to a shaking woman.
http://www.dkbnews.com/bbs/vie.....ewsno=4470
The protests these days do not hold a candle to the ones I witnessed in the early 1990’s. I was working at a university in Teajon at the time and every Friday was protest day. The kids really had nothing better to do. There was not the kind of disposible income in Korea then and no norebang, PC rooms, etc, so rioting was the only outlet. I vividly remember the leaders whacking the cops with iron bars and the campus being engulfed with tear gas. They really did not need a reason to protest, it was all for the fun of it.
There’s an interesting article in the BBC about the new rise of the nationalist right in Japan. Look for more conflicts and clashes with Japan’s neighbors as Japan’s new nationalism rise and memory of WWII fade.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/pro.....449005.stm
xyz,
Thank you very much. A great article. I enjoyed it.
It reinforces everything I and others were saying, namely there is a war coming. All Koreans should read this article and tone down the protest. Basically, Koreans are being pulled into a fight between two heavy weights.
A light weight like Korea just have to hang on to the U.S. and try not to get between China and Japan, which is very hard thing to do. With Rho-Commies in charge, Koreans have no chance of pulling this off.
baduk,
That was a terrible article. It seems you are anxiously trying to find something and of course you see it, even when it’s not there. So a war between China and Japan is inevitable? Not based on anything this personal opinion piece disguised as a news article has to say.
The man who wrote this doesn’t have a clue of the issues involved, which is obvious from some of the stuff he wrote. For example, he says that, “Japan’s present leader, Junichiro Koizumi has made regular visits to Yasukuni Shrine in spite of furious complaints from China, South Korea and other neighbouring countries that in doing so he was condoning Japan’s aggressive war in the 1930s and 1940s.”
Excuse me? South Korea is complaining about Japan condoning its aggressive war in the 1930s and the 1940s? No. South Korea is complaining about the 1890s, the 1900s, and 1919, especially.
This may sound like splitting hairs, but it is not. Regarding the “aggressive war in the 1930s and 1940s,” Koreans are not complaining that Japan waged it, but that Japan kidnapped Korea and dragged it along for the ride: it is the ???????? (”comfort women”), the forced military labor, and even the loss of Korean lives at Hiroshima and Nagasaki that brings anti-Japanese sentiment to a fever pitch, not the fact that Japan marauded its way through China, Southeast Asia, and the Pacific.
That plus the “cultural annihilation” (not my choice of words, but one I’ve seen before) imposed by the Japanese authorities in Korea and the issue of loss of sovereignty, neither of which is necessarily tied to the destruction of World War II, is why Koreans are collectively so damned pissed. Or rather, I should say, it is Japanese authorities acting like none of this happened that raises the choler of Koreans.
Lumping Korea with China as if their complaints are the same is not just bad journalism, it’s a sign that the writer doesn’t know his subject.
But we see this again a few paragraphs later. He later tells the reader that, “on this trip to Japan I could not avoid the conclusion that a new mood of nationalism has also begun to take hold in this country which has been publicly devoted to peace and economic prosperity for so long. One sign is the Japanese authorities’ approval of several new school history textbooks written by known right-wing scholars.”
So the textbook issue raging now is a “sign” of a new mood of nationalism that has begun to take hold in Japan? Excuse me, Mr. Horsley, but this is a sequel to the virtually same event back in 2001. In other words, the tourist journalist Mr. Horsley comes along and sees this isolated event as a rise in right-wing sentiment, not a sign that it has been going along at a low hum all along. This is like someone walking into the theater to see Jurassic Park IV and being amazed at how cinematic technology has brought lifelike dinosaurs to the screen.
And that is the key: his snapshots of uninformed impressions are a bit on the meaningless side. This person has, you say, baduk, given you all the more reason to believe that a war between China and Japan is inevitable, but the fact is that this person’s observations are far too na??ve and sophomoric to be taken seriously.
When he says about China overtaking Japan after a century of Japanese domination that “it is the moment of overtaking that brings the greatest risk of a crash,” it is meant to whip up anxiety and fear as the article ends, a sign that a true writer, not a journalist. A bit yellow, in my opinion.
Yes, things are problematic. They were also in 1995, 1997, 1999, 2001, and 2002. Are they now so problematic that we are headed for an inevitable war in this region? Doubtful, though the prospect must be considered so that people can head things off before they lose their heads.
I don’t think Mr. Horsley paints a fair picture of Japan, where my own travels there and in talks with Korean-speaking and English-speaking Japanese indicates not a rise in support for the right-wing but a rise in how the right-wingers are yelling to get attention (I suppose I should also re-visit Yasukuni, since I haven’t been there since 1994). The average Japanese is annoyed by their tactics as well.
As for China, massive riots do worry me, because they always have the potential to get out of control, but look at the pictures we’ve been presented and the descriptions: the Chinese authorities are bussing the protestors in, having them take turns hurling things at the Japanese embassy, and then go.
While there is genuine ire toward Japan among the Chinese population, the Chinese authorities are whipping up the anti-Japanese sentiment as a distraction. And to some degree it is something they can turn on and off like a faucet. But even if it were to spill over beyond the Communist Party’s control, I’m reminded of the last time there were major demonstrations across the country and the population made very public and loud demands for change. It was Tiananmen and while it led to a lot of bloodshed, it also led to very little else.
baduk, if you’re looking for a war between these two giants, go play a computer game.
mizarv: keep it on topic and don’t make ridiculous generalizations about people, gay or not in such a sense. of COURSE all lesbians are butch and more masculine than the hyper-effeminite Korean man who are all jealous of and intimidated by the White English teacher stealing their women. *rolls eyes*
Kushibo. Nice assessment of the article. This traveling journalist did present a very bad report. It is like he was given a homework report in college. He partied too much the first few days and in the end did a rush job to barely get the report done in time with little real perspective. The teacher would have to give him a D-.
Japan was striped of its nationalist tendencies after WWII. China and Korea have 10 times more nationalist sentiment I laugh when I hear about Japan’s nationalism from Chinese and Koreans. I agree that nationalism in Japan is not on the rise or if so it is very minor and is a result of Japan’s utter lack of nationalism these past 50 years. I’m much more concerned with Chinese nationalism and slightly concerned with Korean nationalism. If there will be a war between Japan and China (very very unlikely in our time here on this earth) it will be caused from Chinese ultra nationalists and the government supporting it. Not Japan.
Nora, what we apparently need is more lesbian in the police force. The combination of toughness and brains would be hard to beat (no pun intended).
tough lesbians are a figment of the heterosexual population. i’m so weak i can barely swat mosquitoes. most of the lesbians i know here are no brawnier than, say, a tennis player or a golfer. some are even fat.
and i wouldn’t say lesbians are any smarter than non-lesbians. well, maybe lesbians are smart enough to figure out that we don’t have to marry some guy we’re not sexually attracted to just because omma and appa want us to get hitched.
the biker dyke image may dominate in america, but except for short hair (which is not universal), lesbians in korea probably don’t look any different from breeders. we even wear make-up (i do, anyway. sometimes). we’re your sisters, your cousins, your daughters, your wives… hee hee. and we do your sisters, your cousins, your daughters, and your wives.
and no, you can’t watch. perv!
i wrote: tough lesbians are a figment of the heterosexual population
i meant that tough lesbians are a figment of the heterosexual population’s imagination.
Jesus is this noras blog. Quit flooding the Marmot hole with your shit. Just get a life.
Jesus is this noras blog.
No, it is not Nora’s. She merely covets attention.
And please, do not invoke My name over something as frivolous as a blog. I’m very busy.
I just spoke with Jesus, and he said Nora’s “shit” should always be welcome at this blog.
Amen
That guy on the pic, with the hammer… At least, he’s wearing them white gloves used for everything from driving a car to driving nails in a plank with a hammer. Should count for something!
oh… my… god!
the man with the hammer is mickey mouse!
XYZ
Are you NORIMITSU ONISHI?
goodgrief: “mizarv: keep it on topic and don??t make ridiculous generalizations about people, gay or not in such a sense. of COURSE all lesbians are butch and more masculine than the hyper-effeminite Korean man who are all jealous of and intimidated by the White English teacher stealing their women. *rolls eyes*”
Ah, thanks Grasshopper, you have snatched the pebble from my hand. I see the irony in your remark, intended or not, but I am often mildly amused by the stereotypes some people hold of others as stereotypers.
I wonder whether anyone offers a remedial course in irony for the humor-impaired.
If so, upon rereading my pearls of wit with some wit of your own, try not to slap your forehead too hard. Jolting latent brain cells into sudden awakening tends to trigger self doubt. In your case that would be an auspicious beginning, of course, but rest assured that such awakenings are exceedingly rare, according to Buddhist lore. Meawhile, I’ll leave you with this koan from “The Idiot’s Guide to Irony”:
What is the sound of one forehead slapping…
I think you are funny mizrav, you are awsome!! I wish you would write a book or somting.
Wow Dogbert!
You are quick…lol.
Does anyone else here think the man in the photo might be Michael Jackson?
I think you are dumb shazzam, you are daft!! I wish you would not write anything or somting.
Nora’s a lesbian? Well, that just takes the fun out of everything. Or…does it? 0_o
ray wrote:
Nora??s a lesbian?
huh? what? i thought you were a lesbian, too. i guess ‘norma ray’ turned out to be just ‘norm.’
Well, that just takes the fun out of everything.
not for me, it doesn’t.
Or??does it? 0_o
for your own sake, give that thought a rest. true sapphicness probably bears little resemblance to the pornographic musings in your mind.
this is, of course, all very off-topic, so can we please get back to the outcast protestors with the dark clothes, close-cropped hair, and violent tempers, which has nothing to do with lesbians!
Looks like great makings of a sweet action flick-they were trained for a mission no one thought they could complete-only to be forgotten about by their country. When they were not assigned a mission-they selected their own in defense of the home land. HID-walk softly and open VERY BIG cans of wupp-ass.
Add a couple of big namers and Korea could have another exportable action flick…
Oh, they didn’t have much to do with pornographic musings in my mind, but simply the great posts on this board that make us laugh.
Let’s not get me started on the prospect of me being a lesbian.
Mizarv in 2007!!
One wacko is just one wacko; there are forty decent Koreans for every one of them.
Those odds aren’t that great when you think about it.
so can we please get back to the outcast protestors with the dark clothes, close-cropped hair, and violent tempers, which has nothing to do with lesbians!
Actually, that sounds like it has _everything_ to do with lesbians!
Iceberg, I think that’s La Toya with the hammer there. And what’s up with former spies protesting against Japan? Did they feel left out of the hate fest? Or is this the usual It Hurts Our PrideTM?
nora wrote:
so can we please get back to the outcast protestors with the dark clothes, close-cropped hair, and violent tempers, which has nothing to do with lesbians!
and then dogbert wrote:
Actually, that sounds like it has _everything_ to do with lesbians!
i guess my humor is just a tad too subtle today. still, dogbert, while you can’t exactly give yourself credit for the joke, you should give yourself credit for being the only one to pick up on it.
I’m guessing my prize is a DVD set of the first season of “The ‘L’ Word”.
Wait a minute…I picked up on it. That’s why I didn’t say anything about it….Sheeesh!
I read somewhere that democracies rarely go to war against each other, at least nowadays, unfortunately, China is not a democracy, so that could be a worry for Japan somewhere far down the road. Commies never act in the best interests of the people, whereas in a democracy, you’ll get turfed out if you do something too stupid. Like start a war that could destroy your own economy.
test
My comment cannot be posted to the Marmot for some reason. Here’s the link (look under “crackdown on on-line porn”):
http://norapark.blogspot.com/
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