“It is a grave global misfortune to coexist with a nation anxious to glorify its history of aggression and cruelty,” Roh said in an interview with the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a leading German newspaper.
President Roh was talking about North Korea, right? Of course not:
“The fundamental problem is that the Japanese are looking to distort and justify their past aggressions. They have occasionally apologized, but their latest behaviors invalidated those apologies.”
Repeated visits (by Japanese prime ministers) to the Yasukuni Shrine, which honors Class A Japanese war criminals, for instance, is a grave insult to both South Korea and China, Roh said.
“The Japanese attitude does not fit with mankind’s universal values,” said the president.
German speakers should feel free to check the KT’s translation with the original interview here.
99 Comments
And what about China? Invades Tibet, kills millions, oppresses the Muslim Uighers, denies Hong Kong free elections, one-party rule by communists…the Uri Party sends a delegation to Beijing to kiss their asses.
?橫The Japanese attitude does not fit with mankind??s universal values.”
For the head of a government that intentionally and completely ignores North Korea’s human rights atrocities, Roh should think twice before he opens his oft-controversial ‘bouche.’
I’m very conservative right wing and devoted christian in Korea who believe that S Korea should not lean toward China’s side.
I was absolutely devastated when this man was elected as a president.
However I’m also disapointed how America is handling North Korea’s nuke.
Ofcourse Most Korean want that fat ass Kim Jung ill dead but it seems like it won’t happen any time sooner.
The reason Skorea’s young generation became anti american is not because America robbed gold from us but growing threat of American invasion on NK which would cause a catastrophic war on our peninsula.
If war break out in Korea it wouldn’t be american troop that fight but us young Korean male that have to fight on the ground and become bullet blocker for the american lead invasion.
During Clinton administration America tried to bomb Young Byun facility and I was just a kid back then when my grandma telling me that war might break out. I was scared to death and American would never understand that.
One of Korea’s right wing president Kim Young Sam during that time said to president Clinton that if you are going to invade North then you must step on me first.
It’s outrageous that current government is completely ignoring Nk’s human right situation but sometimes I understand why he is doing that because he wants peace not war.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I suspect the irony is particularly acute for the Marmot because he does not think Japan is very much a problem.
Japan is not very much of a problem for Korea, but China will be.
DaeHan,
Korean youth like yourself are so spoiled. The U.S. forces and the Korean soldiers have done a magnificent job to protect civilians in Korea. They have performed consistently well and now people even think these two are not essential for the future of Korea.
Many in Korea think that as long as SK pays to NK and do nothing to agitate NK, KimJI will stay calm and nothing will happen. This type of thinking led to the Korean War. People were talking about peace right up to the day of NK attack. You know the story.
KimYoungSam did not stop the U.S. from bombing NK; Pres. Carter did. And, both of these two are responsible for NK nuke. Do you know what nuclear weapon is? It is a tie-breaker. SK cannot fight NK in the fear of nuclear weapon, let alon chemical and biological weapons.
This means SK MUST wave white flag when the U.S. forces leave Korea. What happens next? Your family will be taken to the NK labor camps and work there for the rest of their lives. Your possessions, house, bank account and what have you, will be taken by NK communist party members.
If you are so afraid that you would rather pay a gangster than fight, then that is your choice. Someday the gangster will want everything you have. Everything! You will have nothing. No freedom to do what you want. He will tell you what you must do to make him happy. You will eat whatever is leftover.
Do you want a life like that? Or, would you want to fight and defend your family and your country? The choice is yours.
“President Roh was talking about North Korea, right?”
-Oh come on. Japan’s attitude epitomises glorification of its past. In comparison, North Korea is the crazy preacher on the corner. Roh’s comments may not be wise with regards to improving the relationship with Japan but they do make sense in the wider picture of two obstinant nations with an ugly history, each failing to move foward. Just another tit for the tat.
Oh come on yourself Aron: Japan’s “attitude epitomises glorification of its past”–it is allowing the sale of one middle school textbook, and a local government whose fisherman are fed up with the Korean coast guard blocking them from fishing in an area where they have a right to under an agreement with Korea, and this is glorifying their past? But North Korea actively attacking the South, killing its sailors in 2002, they’re just the “crazy preacher on the corner”? Roh’s statements fit that last description much better.
Wow, Roh said,
“……does not fit with mankind??s universal values”
Did Korea just abstain from voting on a UN Human Rights Commission condemning violations of human rights in North Korea?
Amazing!
I’m curious, M, do you think this pandering to extreme Korean nationalism represents an attempt — on the part of both ROK politicians and citizens — to desperately find an item of common ground with those tough guys up north?
Perhaps implicitly understood, perhaps even unconscious.
It’s one of the oldest political ploys in the book, not confined to Korea or Asia of course. Stir things up with a xenophobic campaign against foreigners, to obscure an intractable domestic political problem.
Especially if the pols and citizens make the assumption (again, implicit and unstated though it might be) that it’s “safe” to do so. Does any ROK citizen (when talked to privately and rationally) really believe in their “heart of hearts” that the Japanese people are longing (in their heart of hearts) to “have a go” at recreating the achievements of the imperial Japanese army?
Imperial Japan is only 60 years in the past, but in terms of Japan being a threat to mainland Asia it might as well be 600 years, in political terms. I don’t think the Japanese have the will any more to “march into hell” for the emperor.
Not so sure this is the case, as between NorK soldiers and the Dear Leader. But as you point out, this seems to be the elephant in the living room that nobody wants to talk about.
If the ROK wants US troops to remain, to help protect against the North for the indefinite future, then the US bases in Japan are essential for the US to be able to sustain that effort (just like they were during the Korean war).
It seems insane to me for anyone in the ROK to undercut that, by arousing serious political ill-will over trivialities between Japan and Korea.
Why should Japan go out of its way to assist the ROK, only to be cursed for it (any more than the USA should)? The risk of NorK missile attack against Japan is just as real as that against the South, indeed perhaps more so. There haven’t been any NorK ballistic missile tests over the ROK yet.
An amazing (and depressing) spectacle indeed.
“They have occasionally apologized, but their latest behaviors invalidated those apologies.??-Roh
So all those appologies of the past, Gone. All the millions in aid, Gone! All the japanese restaurant franchises.. well, not so gone.
Koreans are fixated on Japan at the moment not because japan is the clear and present threat but because the current Korean administration is trying it’s best to spin blame anywhere but here.
I think they have learned far too well from the Americans on how to spin news and public sentiment. Instead of focusing on the econmy (most polls how this is #1 on Koreans hit list) the government brings you “THE ENEMY OF THE WEEK!”
Last year it was china for their historical inacuracies in regards to Goguroyo. The year before that, the US because of the accident with the middle school girls (different admin.. same sunshine). Now it is Japan with the shrine and rock islands.
Koreans will someday soon figure out that the sunshine policy has lead them into a dark hole and that their only company at the bottom of the well is Kim Jong Ill.
It saddens me very much that Korea has a long line of incompetent presidents including the present one. I do agree that distorting the history books is wrong, but this issue is getting seriously out of proportion. Exacerbating the already strained relations with the U.S. isn’t bad enough, he has to further damage relations with Japan. Tokto isn’t a problem as I see it since the flag is dug in there. The history books can be repaired as the countries cooperate with one another. His policies just doesn’t make any sense. What power does he think that he and Korea has to “balance” power in Asia? He is isolating Korea and further delaying and hindering any chance at reunification that I see as being highly unlikely in the near future. This man seems to be too idealistic with no pragmatism when it comes to N.Korea. He can’t seem to get anything done except to follow the flawed ideals of the previous president who I must say was extremely incompetent also. Korea will always be a small country because the presidential office is most of the time occupied by stupidity. What I’d like to know is why the execution video footages in N.Korea were banned? This certainly is not helping the human rights in N.Korea. This guy needs to get his priorities straight and stop wasting valuable time in his presidency with his small thoughts and petty actions.
the roh administration’s shrill-noise policy is going to fail because japan simply doesn’t care what korea has to say about this.
or does it?
maybe the ’squeaky wheel’ policy could work after all: if koizumi really does feel that getting back on korea’s good side is in japan’s own best interest and that roh is willing to cut off korea’s nose to spite its face (by letting this row hurt economic ties and by cozying up with china), then koizumi might find some way to compromise with his korean critics on these issues.
that would end up making roh look like a hero, even among some who think he’s treading in dangerous waters now.
Okay, a lot has happened in Korea’s foreign policy in the past two years. Let’s recap:
Roh was elected by a tide of Anti-American sentiment resulting from a tank driven by U.S. imperialists who intentionally ran over two girls. (South Korea still holds the world record for largest American flag ever desecrated). Hand-in-hand with U.S. imperialism is Japanese colonialism. Even though Japan has apologized several times for their wartime atrocities and gave a very generous compensation package to Korea in 1965, Japan has never apologized nor given compensation. So Roh rules out any close relations with the U.S. or Japan, the first and second largest economies in the world.
Roh then turns to Europe. Roh is encouraged by all the anti-Americanism in Old Europe and that in France, Kerry beat Bush by a margin of 92 to 8 (unfortunately, France has no electoral votes). Roh also sympathized with Europe’s tantrum over Bush’s illegal and immoral war to oust misunderstood baddie Saddam Hussein. (Plus, we all know Arabs need a Great Leader and have no capacity to govern themselves). But Europeans pester Roh over his “hub” plan which paradoxily restricts foreign investment in Korea. They also hound him over phantom human rights abuses in North Korea that are obviously trumped up by U.S. intelligence officers who claimed Saddam had WMDs.
So where does South Korea turn to next? Easy, Western capitalistic countries that have democratically elected leaders have nothing to offer Korea, so Roh turns to the communist dictatorships of China and North Korea. Even though North Korea keeps 200,000 political prisoners in concentration camps and China keeps 2,000,000 in their gulags, their definition of human rights better “fit with mankind’s definition of human values,” than the way Herr Bush frogmarches Iraqi women and children off to Gitmo to torture them.
The open question: can Korea survive this rubble of a presidency when it’s all over by 2007?
I just don’t get it. This uhummmm President puts his head in the ground and abstains from voting on North Korean (SK’s brothers) human rights violations on a massive scale, kisses China’s ass with all their human rights abuses, but yet condemns Japan “a nation anxious to glorify its history of aggression and cruelty.” Japan has been great these last 50 years or so and I see no reason why they would change. Meanwhile NK and China have been atrocious over the past 50 years with only mild improvement on China’s side this last decade. But then again after you kill a few million people it is easy to get better with human rights.
Hey Roh those are your people up North!!!!!! I guess it is true, the people who treat Koreans the worst are other Koreans.
Besides, didn’t Roh accuse Japan of Whitewashing (covering up crimes) its history? If Japan is trying to cover up their past aggression, how can they glorify its history of aggression at the same time? Tell this man to have someone proofread his off the cuff speeches. With logic like this it is hard to believe he was a lawyer. Even harder to believe A nation voted him in as President.
Toolboy
Loved the post.
I think Korea can and will survive this President. Obviously SK will be weakened and alienate itself more but it will survive.
The sad news is Anti-unification minister Chung will probably be the next President. Thank goodness because who likes all those old people voting anyway. Six months or so before the election they will grab onto something Anti-American or Anti-Japanese to help them sweep the election. It is a formula that works in Korea and worked for Roh last time. If the US or Japan don’t do anything they will manufacture something with a little help from KBS. The liberals in Korea need someone to hate. Five years SK will survive. Ten years is another story.
“Roh was elected by a tide of Anti-American sentiment”
“With logic like this it is hard to believe he was a lawyer. Even harder to believe A nation voted him in as President.”
Roh was elected with a plurality, not a majority. This is the case for every single democratically elected president in Korea going back to Roh Taewoo.
When a large portion of the population votes along regional lines or party lines, and only about 40% of the vote is required to get elected, it is very easy to galvanize a fraction of the voting population and put you over the top, despite your rhetoric not being supported by a greater portion of the population.
What Korea needs is electoral reform. Run-off elections among the top-two vote-getters over 20%, for example, could help prevent a demagogue from getting elected.
“The Japanese attitude does not fit with mankind??s universal values”
I’d translate ‘Verhalten’ as in “Schlie??lich gilt auch, da?? das japanische Verhalten nicht im Einklang mit den Werten steht, die f?r die ganze Menschheit gelten” with ‘behaviour’ rather than ‘attitude’, i.e. “Finally, the Japanese behaviour doesn’t fit with those values that are valid for the whole mankind”. Couldn’t find anything on Yakusuni in the FAZ text either. Did the KT have access to the original interview texts?
“President Roh was talking about North Korea, right? Of course not:..” Marmot, man, come on… this was lame and not up to your niveau ;o))!
Here are the more interesting parts of the FAZ-interview with the Commander-in-Chief tongue-not-so-in-cheek:
Turning to North Korean issues, Roh said he is always ready for an inter-Korean summit if offered by North Korean leader Kim Jong-il.
“The doors to the inter-Korean summit are always open. As North Korea is unlikely to consent to such a meeting at present, however, I will not make an offer first,” Roh said.
“An inter-Korean summit, if realized, would be focused on the North’s nuclear weapons program, and South Korea will share the U.S. stance over the issue,” he added. The president described the North’s nuclear-state declaration on Feb. 10 as a “strategic gesture.”
Commenting on inter-Korean unification, Roh said the EU is a model for the first stage of such a process. excerpt from Korea Times
Next week Pres. Roh will visit Germany. The German diplomatic coprs is more than interested not to get involved in the diplomatic mudslinging between Korea and Japan aka Yamato Wa. Right now, Germany ain’t that well-fitting battle ground for both NE Asian countries. Many bilateral big-back-rubbing-projects (cultural exchange and moneymaking:-) are in the pipelines for this year.
Btw, thanx Japan for giving us J-Pop-shit, crappy soap operas and sick social trends after the cultural exchange of Buddhism, fine arts, Sino-Korean civilization and development aid in ancient times from your Korean buddies. An no, the money sent in 1965, that a few of our American buddies go apeshit about, wasn’t that generous. Half of the sum was reparation payment and the other half as loan: nice price tag, best buy for nearly half a century of robbin’ and lootin’ a neighbouring country. Go fuck yourself, Japan and keep on whining about kranky Korea and childish China. Go on with your tearful self-pitty as “Hiroshima” and “Nagasaki” victimson your shaking archipelago - you’ll receive the sympathy of all Pacific nations peoples that you had ruled under your boots. Couldn’t care less about you. Nippon, thanx for pimping my patriotism, bwahahaha. And to the Chinese right-wing loonies… what the fuck are you doing on the Paekdu mountain top, huh? Sending back DPRK refugees? Lusting for new territories? Fuck you too, Korea ain’t exactly like Tibet. If Koreans kill / torture / oppress Koreans, then I call it a desastrous family tragedy. If Koreans do the same to foreigners, I call it a crime. If foreigners do the shit to Koreans, I call it a crime, too. If foreigners do the same to each other, then I call it their own desastrous family tragedy. That’s the difference in reactions from the Korean side to Japanese, American or Chinese behaviour. Simple as it is, truelly… got it?
It is most definitely springtime for Hitler . . .
Sugar Shin, thank you for such a typical Koreanic response.
Spread your hate all over.
Hatred? No. Typical Koreanic response? Nope. Heavy Sarcasm? Yepp.
Here’s an useful link of the original FAZ-interview in German and the Korean translation done by the ROK embassy stuff.
Err, sorry, I messed up the HTML-tag for linking.
Click!
“What I??d like to know is why the execution video footages in N.Korea were banned?”
Banned? No it wasn’t banned. There were news clips of the footage broadcasted. There just wasn’t much interest by the media or the public. Which says a lot. I don’t know if I would call that desensitization, hypocrisy, or both.
ah, i think a refined sarcasm should contain more discreetness.
unfortunately, sugar shin, what you wrote was so dejavu i have heard at here in seoul zillion times.
Anyone have a clue why the US all of a sudden withdraws support of Japan being included in the UN Security Council? I would think this is a complete stab in the back for the Japanese. I just don’t believe that the US decision was influenced by China and Korea. Personally I think Japan reaped what it sowed. C’est la vie for their UN ambitions.
US still supports Japan for permanent seat, but does not support neither other counties’ bid nor Koffi’s reform plan overall.
sorry, mae. I didn’t intend to be refined. Just plump and loud.. and to have my diabolic fun while typing. It worked pretty fine. :^)
To echo pilgrim’s comment, Japan has cast a wide net in supporting schemes to get on the UNSC. While the US supports Japan in principle, the current US position is to oppose most of Kofi Annan’s initiatives, so it looks like the US is undercutting Japan. Also, the US is probably not too keen on giving a permanent seat to Brazil or Germany given the anti-US politicking of Lula and Gerhard. I think it would be smart (from the US perspective) to give a seat to India, however, as Washington has to think in the long term about how to balance against rising Chinese power.
Why should the US share in its power at all? What’s in it for them?
The mink shall inherit a scorched Earth.
Btw, thanx Japan for giving us J-Pop-shit, crappy soap operas and sick social trends after the cultural exchange of Buddhism, fine arts, Sino-Korean civilization and development aid in ancient times from your Korean buddies
While I couldn’t be less interested in defending for or apologizing on behalf of Japan, i don’t see how you can really believe that all of Japan’s culture is cribbed from Korea. It just doesn’t hold water. One of the earliest (boring) novels is Genji no monogatari, and Japan’s list of 20th century internationally esteemed novelists is respectable - including two Nobel prize winners, as well as one writer, Mishima Yukio, who, despite being creepy and flaky, is almost universally anthologized in short story collections IN ENGLISH. Compare this with the very low esteem in which novelists or fiction writers (indeed all of the arts in general), are held in Korea - one only needs to recall the imprisonment of Ma Gwang Soo not too long ago, and it’s not hard to see why Korea has never produced a really outstanding novelist. Korea is now turning its back on its Buddhist heritage in favor of Protestant Christianity, has become ignorant in knowledge of Chinese characters, and still regards the arts as at best trivial and incidental, and at worst something to be persecuted and censored. Realistically, if Korea gave Japan Buddhism, Sino Korean culture, and the fine arts, they do much more with it, and you can now find a lot more of it in Japan.
-_- I see your point marmot, and I understand but Roh is talking about Japan issue here, not human rights. The north korean issue is a totally separate issue for south korea, entangled with the wish of unification and threat of nuclear warheads. I understand and agree with your point that SK should do more for NK human rights, but bringing up this issue on this subject, IMO, keeps us from better discussion this issue, namely Japan.
Tarion, in case you haven’t been paying attention, there isn’t much of a wish for unification. Not by the general populace, and especially not by the boys in power.
Sugar Shin…you belong in Korea. Come back!
Tarion, I understand your point, but the fact that President Roh would make such a statement while pursuing a policy of “coexistence and coprosperity” with North Korea and buddying up with China makes it hard for me to take the “Japan problem” seriously. “A misfortune to coexist with Japan?” ” Japan doesn’t accord with universal values?” This after his defense minister says China has the greatest interest in peace and stability in the region? Look, I’m fully aware that there are contradictions in the foreign policies of all nations. Commentary on US foreign policy will point out more than a few. The ones going on here, however, are taking place at the level of grand strategy — if you want to call it that — and the ironies implicit in the president’s statement overshadow whatever truth may be contained in his accusations of ill Japanese intentions.
Paul H: I??m curious, M, do you think this pandering to extreme Korean nationalism represents an attempt ?? on the part of both ROK politicians and citizens ?? to desperately find an item of common ground with those tough guys up north?
Possibly, and some of the discussions now going on about turning Korea into a “NE Asian balancer” leads me to suspect that some of the rhetoric is aimed at making the change in strategic orientation go smoother. That being said, there is a lot of popular outrage over the issue, and that’s not the product of government wire-pulling. Some of the lines the president has been dropping may simply be because he has no choice — he’ll get killed by the media if he comes off soft. To be honest, I’m at a lost to explain how things have developed in the way that have, other than to say the strategic thinking behind it doesn’t appear to be well planned.
“To be honest, I??m at a lost to explain how things have developed in the way that have, other than to say the strategic thinking behind it doesn??t appear to be well planned.”
Could it be perhaps because of the new government’s inexperience made up of the young ideologues of the 386 generation? They grew up under the dictatorships, protesting about everything. The old guys were corrupt, but they were pragmatic and knew their ways around foreign policy for the benefit of the country. The new guys on the other hand, are like a big clumsy bull in the tea shop, wrecking everything when it moves. Hopefully they will learn soon when to speak up and when to shut up. Unfortunately Korea can’t afford these guys to learn on the job.
although roh’s comments may be too harsh in diplomatic terms, it is by no means unreasonable… considering the atrocities japan has committed during the second world war..
in understanding the resentment borne by the chinese and korean, it is necessary to bear in mind the cruelties japan has done in the past and its current unrepentant attitude… in contrast to germany’s genuine remorse…
alison,
i dont know. yes, these 2 very countries now really bitching on japan, and as a innocent japanse i wonder why “now” they are doing this. if they really want to bitch about atrocity comitted by japan, they should have been consistently doing so. isn’t it bit too good timing?
now is the time that media says japan seeks UNSC permanent position, then chinese makes a riot against japan. doesnt china can control when and how to make a riot even now???
innocent japanese really felt what and how we did wrong…
” if they really want to bitch about atrocity comitted by japan, they should have been consistently doing so.”
Mae, where have you been the last few decades?
Doppelg?nger.
Actually Koreans want to forgeddabout Japan’s brutalities and atrocities. After all, Korea and Japan have much to share and Japan has been eating off Korean exports to China and Korea needs Japan’s technology transfer.
So, Japan and Korea could become friends. Even lovers, looking at this Yonsama phenomenon.
But, Dokdo brought back all the bad memories of Koreans getting beaten up by Japanese police, Korean women becoming whores and Korean men slaving in Japanese war factories.
Can you blame Koreans?
sa hwa dong, i am an old man, and last 20 years i have been a constant visitor of korea and china for business, and i personally felt now is the worst.
baduk, the very beginning of dokdo issue was a poor japanese ambasador to korea answered to a question of pro-korean news paper reporter from famous asahi news paper at a regular pressconference with “foreign press” in seoul. the reporter asked the ambasador where dokto is belonged to. everyone knows a japanese ambasaddor’s response. he would have been fired if he said “uh.. i dont know” or “no comment” as a japanese civil servant.
a few days later shimane thing happens.
a draft of the textbook was said to be handed over to korean government through a pro-korea japanese teachers’ union member, much earlier than japanese public knew rough contents of it. by the way it is illigal to disclose the contents of the draft before it becomes official.
I’m not endorsing Park Geun-hye with this (like it matters she gets my backing!) but it was refreshing to see her spank Roh for his recent “balancer” idiocy: http://times.hankooki.com/lpag.....210230.htm
And Mae is right, it is good timing. Roh’s approval rating has been nonexistent, everything he touches turns to ???, his ministers and aides get sacked on a regular basis–why not try a little hatemongering to deflect attention from how he is sucking eggs? Anyway, these outbursts in Korea are usually orchestrated by a small group, a trait shared with the “brothers” they studiously ignore in the North. Even this Dokdo business, who set it off? Here’s a reminder: http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WO.....index.html
mae,
both south korea and china have been consistently demanding a formal apology from japan.. but without response… and now, the japanese government is whitewashing history and lobbying for the admission ticket to UNSC… if you were chinese/korean, whose ancestors were killed/buried alive in nanjing, would you accept it? most westerners do not know the atrocities that imperial japan has done to asian countries…. in fact, it was as worse as those nazi germany committed against the jews.
i understand most japanese are peace-lovers and that japan has done a great deal of financial contribution to the united nations… but seeking a seat at the SC is a touchy issue and would necessarily arouse bad feelings from invaded countries if the japanese governemnt does not attempt to play down its recent historical distortions.
as for the chinese riot yesterday, as a hongkonger, i feel sorry for the japanese embassy… irrational as they are, their sentiments are understandable.
Irrational?
I don’t think so. If the Chinese had done “Nanjing” thing in Japan and try to write it out of the textbook, the Japanese would have done the same thing, or even more.
Israel would have done the same thing if Germany tried to lie about what it did during WWII. Jews in Israel would have burn the embassy down and may have burn the flag of Germany.
Japan must repent and beg for forgiveness. Instead, it is making more excuses and becoming more audacious in covering up its wrongdoings.
The Chinese are saying “Never again!”. That is very rational. And, even commendable.
Burn the Japanese embassy down and kick out the embassador! Let the world know that the Chinese and Koreans are mad and will not take this garbage any more.
I speak German and the FAZ didn’t use some of the contends that has been carried by the Korean press such as:”It is a grave global misfortune to coexist with a nation anxious to glorify its history of aggression and cruelty,”
The script of the interview was provided by the Blue House and Yonhap and everyone else just used it.
The FAZ used other contends of the interview.
One more time. Again. Baduk, alison, et al.: Japan hasn’t attacked another country in 60 years. It also does not oppress it’s own people. China and North Korea both oppress their own people TODAY. North Korea has also attacked South Korea in 2002, and killed its sailors. China repatriates North Korean defectors to face imprisonment and death. Where’s your outrage? You are moral midgets.
Just to make you aware, Japan??s war shrine does not actually honor war criminals, it merely includes them among 2.5 million other names, many of whom belong to people who died a generation before WWII, and several hundred thousand of whom are Korean and Chinese Taiwanese rather than Japanese.
There are no special temples or shrines to the class A war criminals in the shrine and their presence is not actually highlighted. If you couldn??t read their names in the news papers, you probably wouldn??t notice that they were there.
I also feel that I should mention that the shrine is a Shinto shrine and not a Buddhist shrine, so you can??t ask for fortune from somebody who is named there and you can??t actually honor them or glorify them.
The shrine??s purpose is quite different from Mao??s mausoleum or the Lincoln memorial.
Please distinguish between Japanese culture and the stereotyping of Japan seen in Korea. Japan was deeply shamed by the war, but people in Japan do not openly talk about issues of shame but they still feel them. Japan was many things during the war, but today it is remorseful but it doesn??t show its remorse in the way that Korea would like.
alison,
first, my saying of “if they really want to bitch about atrocity comitted by japan, they should have been consistently doing so.”is quite misleading. i just wanted to emphasize that “why now” the riot to the embassy or the series of words by the president of the country as if he is declaring (real) war.
of course, as diplomatic point of view, japan could have done better job.
i just wonder who get benefit out of all this.
to some of your comment.
1. obviously not satisfactory to china and korea, japan has made several official apologies by p.m’s and emperor,even though some individual politicians made stupid remarks. (well, japan is a free country. he cant be killed by eing bagainst government policy)
2. it is quite misleading to describe as whitewashing the history. please read these textbooks. i think there should be some different interpretations from chinese or korean textbooks, though. invasion, nanjin, comfort women(though less textbooks are takeing this up) all are still in textbooks.
3. the textbook issue originally started to stand against the communist-led teachers’ union in japan. many of these teachers are as communist as chinese teachers, and anti-japan as korean teachers.
for education of kids, i believe it should be more important how it is taught, not by description of the textbook. (guess it is hard to believe. but it’s the reality of japanese education)
regardless of nationalities, do you want your kids taught by a teacher who denounce (not criticize) the history and pay no respect to the national flag of your own country? (yeah, i am a conservative as a gop member, and send my kids to a private school where is no teachers belonging to the union)
bright side is more and more tourists visit to see yeon-sama eating bulgogi while the national flag and koizumi-doll have been burned. no pain just indifference….
ThisIsStale,
Yes, I know NK and China are evil. At least, their ruling politicians are evil. Since these countries are not democratic, I cannot be certain if the people are evil.
In Japan, the people have no excuse. Many Koreans, Americans and Europeans thought the Japanese have gotten civilized in last sixty years. However, the Dokdo, their textbooks and shrine attendance give evidence that the contrary is true. They have waiting for the U.S. influence in the Pacific to wane, before they overtly act on their ambition to conquer Asia by force as they have done before.
Yes, different from Germany, Japan has never let go of its dream of ruling over Asia through force. Japan never truly repented of WWII, but actually glorified and IS GLORIFYING its conquest of Korea and China.
Japan wants to rule Asia once more. It is in collision course with China which wants to flex its muscle as well.
well said Mae
ACB,
If they feel such remorse, is it so difficult to skip shrine attendance? Why do they knowingly do something that angers Korea and China?
This act is similar to what I have heard about the English marching into the Irish city once a year in Ireland. It is a tradition, the English said. But, why don’t they stop it? Does anybody die if they stop this tradition? I am sure they stop doing it by now; they have finally grown up.
Feeling remorse? They have to show it! Otherwise, they are lying; they still believe they are better than Koreans or the Chinese and have right to kill these, according to their thinking, “inferior” creatures.
Did you know that the last disputed text book only ever made a run of 2000 and that it was only accepted by 2 schools, both of which were privately run; less than 0.5 of Japanese children were ever taught using them.
Did you also know that a good number of the disputed sections in the books revolve around sex slaves and casualties. Neither are denied or removed but are actually ‘watered down’ because they have been written for children.
If my young daughter came home from school and said that she had been taught graphic details of war rpe or mass murder, by any country and in any war, I might feel inclined to go out and beat her teacher with my fist until he or she apologized for telling a child about something that children shouldn’t know about for several years.
Take note: Japanese high school text books include more details on Japanese war crimes than their European and American counterpart books.
ACB,
I do not know if you are a Japanese but, if you are not, then ask the Japanese if they feel Koreans and the Chinese are their equals.
Their answer may surprise you.
mae,
the statements made by roh is not surprising, considering the recent spat with japan over dokdo
as far as i know, japan never formally made a written apology to china, though in a number of circumstances its pm verbally expressed “regret” over the second world war… the term “regret”, as you may sense, is of course different from an apology…
as for the textbook issue, what i read here is that “nanking massacre” has been changed into an “incident” in which “many” chinese nationals died, wihtout specifying the number, which historians said could have amounted to as many as 300000… “entrance”, instead of “invasion”, is used to describe the japanese army’s activities in foreign countries.
one last point.. koreans or chinese are not attempting to punish japan or doing whatever that would hamper japan to become a geo-political superpower… but the fact remains taking up an important post as a permanent member of sc would require a flow of responsibilities.. and this is the very thing why japan couldn’t win trust in neighboring countries when it decided to go on with its historical distortions.
territorial spats, glorrifying militarism and the unsc issue form the underlying cause of the recent anti-japan demonstrations in south korea and china.
ThisIsStale,
the cruelties of the chinese and north korean authorities is a different issue which should be dealt with separately.
the thing is, although japan is seen as a democratic country, ocntrary to china and nk, its governemnt unrepentantly denies historical truth and attempts to glorrify it. isn’t it alarming?
Ah, good ol’ Japan… Acting as Korean government’s “gay marriage” like that. They’re swell.
Baduk, why dont you ask Korean how they feel about other asians like philipinos? Do Koreans feel as though those asians are equeal to the great korean race? The answer is a big fat NO. Koreas look down on all asians and blacks.
r
ahh yes Allison, you fall in the korean/chinese group of people who can never hear what you want. Roh said it so well when he admitted that japan appologized but because japan did this or that.. all appologies were invalid.
Germany appologized to civilized nations, and we the civilized nations of the world accepted. Those same nations like the USA also is not still crying about japan today. Korea and China still burn with envy and can never accept any word of appology from japan.
As far as I know, PM Murayama officially apoligized.
Chinese government and Korean government officially accepted it.
locus,
please tell me more in details of millions died in horrific way by the japanese.
by the way, sticky rice (its scientific name is japonica something)was introduced by japanese in some japanese history books(correct me if it is wrong. i have no intention to advocate this). and so as red peppers, introduced by hideyoshi toyotomi, one of the no.1 in the hatred jap in korea, during his invasion. i wonder how the korean textbook handle this.
it’s just out of pure curiosity.
hey… dogbert…
Of course, It is NOT OK for any country to
distort the history….
I would say that the degree you are accusing
Korea of is probably the norm in the world….
Which country doesn’t want to focus on its roll
in its history even if it was NOT the major player…
Problem with Japan is that it inflicted enormous
damage to other countries…
I come to think.. that a war fought just among
soldiers would not leave such an animosity…
You meet your equals in the battlefield and fight
honourably. After a while you can come to a closure
without apologies….
The differing fact in Japan-Asia is that Japan
brought suffering and misery to the civilian
population to a degree that you can HARDLY find
equals except in Nazi Germany in the recent history.
Dogbert, I see that our locations are switched for
the time being. Here, you tune in the History channel
and watch the endless second World War and
holocaust related series….. Wouldn’t you agree to
acuse these of the same self-centeredness and
single person perspective of the history you are
accusing Korea of?
Japan as war criminal nation is a notion that is
being diluted in the western consciousness because
Japan as a loser nation has bowed down to the
winner nations and as I mentioned above war
fought among soldiers can beleft behind easier.
Now, the question is there are not just winners
and losers BUT also victims (losers anyway) who
were neglected to deal with its own wounds.
How can Japan fail to see that the former
victims are its neighbors now and forever
whose trust/support it needs to build a stable
future?
No matter how much SciFi anime Japan consumes
it can not transport itself far away from the
Asian continent.
Superpowers (US) come and go… but Japan will
be on the fringes of the Asian continent now and
forever.
It is simply silly and dilusional to want to become
world leader if it can not be a regional leader.
Again, tear me apart if I am wrong…
But the only possible `partner’ for Japan
in NE Asia is S. Korea… (we know that China
can never be a partner).
Dogbert, I don’t want to play tit for tat with you.
See the big picture and it seems to me that
Japanese right wing tactics have clearly backfired in
a wrong moment (candidacy to the UN SC).
if i recall correctly, murayama tried to apologise, but the ldp made a big deal about how it was not an official apology. they said something like, the prime minister’s words are his own (i.e., not the official governmental position).
however, i think it was ono who apologised (in 1998?) in a meeting with kim daejung, which kim daejung accepted, saying the past should be in the past. quite different from roh today.
i think akihito may have apologised, too, but i can’t be sure. i don’t know if any pm or the emperor did this with china.
mae or Meda-san or whoever…
I think that the red-pepper thing is true
so is the bread “pang” in korean = comes from portugese pao.
But, typical Japanese response again.
Should the koreans appreciative of Hideyoshi because of red-pepper and bread ?
Jeeezzzz. This is THE problem when somebody want
to REASON with some japanese…
http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Na.....OLOGY.html for Murayama.
As for the Emperor, I think the controversy was over the word ???? [regrets] he used, being construed as an acknowledgement of teh past, not a formal apology. Whatever…
off topic but related to japan and korea:
i found this blog run by a western guy who’s been living in japan for the last seven years. he says he’s a history buff and so he’s been very interested in japanese history and culture.
he wrote that he came across a book called ‘japan’s hidden culture…’ by jon carter covell. the book contadicted japan’s version of it’s early history. i won’t get into all that but the book made him go back and reread the ‘nihongi’ a book that he had already ‘read’(his emphasis). he was astounished to see how often the korean states were mentioned. anyway, he wrote something that raised my eyerbrows:
the nihongi casually states that 270 years after jingo(Jingu kr), the 30th emperor bidatsu sets up his palace in oho-wi, kudara.
interesting.
“Regret” or apology, pretty close to the same thing in some countries.. either way, Japan has repeated a few of them this way and that but it avoids specifics, like “we feel in our hearts at how the war caused much suffering to Asian peoples.” Even that comes only after a national effort to deny specifics, like Nanjing. See here
oranckay,
still, you learned those info from japan.
comfort women was started from a pathetic japanese writer, yoshida. until then, it was published in 1977, there has been not even a comfort woment issue in korea.
the dokdo issue was tha same. asahi reporter started it.
the textbook issue was handed over to korean government by the japanese.
still many says japan dont remorse…
so, dont call “japanese glorify the imperialist japan”
then, even if it is different issue, china or korea have someone to disclose some inhumane deed of them in the past??????
again, what these people want to accomplish?
noolji maripkan
So I guess the annexation of Korea (or at least former Kudara part of Korea)was legit
Mae,
Unlike China or North Korea, South Korea is a democratic nation, and people have tried hard to disclose inhumane deeds done during the military dictatiorship era as well as the Japanese colonial period. I deeply respect what Asahi Shimbun has done (although it did spread bad rumors about koreans during the kanto earthquakes), and Hankyoreh has done similar jobs such as reporting about Jeju 4.3 massacre, 5.18 Gwangju democratic movement, and cilivian massacres done by the ROK army during the Vietnam War.
I’m sure there are some Koreans who hate Japan just because of their experiences in the past, which I can’t really blame, but younger people aren’t opposed to Japan as a whole, but only to people who try to glorify crimes, regardless of their nationalities. I hate Jun Doo-hwan just as much as I do Ishihara.
You all may as well forget this whole thing; it is only Korea’s annual Hate In. The Japanese will ignore it and then refuse to sell the Koreans the technology they need. Xenophobia “r” us.
[...] their best to heal the divide between China and Japan. And yes, Japan has apologized. As President Roh of South Korea recently stated: [...]
‘they’ll stop selling their technology to the koreans.’ kimchipig
an economy that has not grown in 15 years is in no position to mess with it’s third largest trading partner. sorry.
strange comments:
‘we japanese are really different; the chinese and koreans use spoons and chopsticks while we japanese only use chopsticks!’ mae
‘we koreans are really different; we use metal chopsticks while the chinese and japanese use wooden ones!’ noolji mukatsu
nooljin maripkan
even though japanese are blamed for the history distortion, i dont appreciate your quoting my comment with a bit of distortion. it is not fair.
WE UGAKUZITES ARE DIFFERENT… WE USE OUR FINGERS AND THROW BOWLS AT OUR CAPTURED MINISOFIAN SLAVES WHEN WE FINISH!
Just a small stone in the pond. THe Economist reports that Japan now purchases more from Korea than from the United States, formerly its largest trading partner. There must be some bright spots in Korean-Japanese relations.
I do not understand why some of you westerners bring the
issue of NK human rights when we are talking about Japan.
N. Korea is NOT running for a seat in the UN security council.
`Representative’ countries of different continents are running
for the seat… i.e. Germany, Brazil, India, Nigeria/S. Africa, etc…
although for absolute economic/military power there are other
countries that are close or even more powerful than these
(Canada, Spain, S. KOREA, Italy, etc)
Do you guys think that it is OK for a country to run for the
position when it is fervently opposed in its OWN region
(Japan in NE Asia).
It seems Japan doesn’t get it…. and it is a shame in fact.
Without building mutual trust with the key NE Asian nations
there is no better future for Japan as diplomatic/political power.
I guess that most koreans would acknolwlege
that Japan made some jestures of `regrets for unfortunate
past that brings sadness to my heart’-type commnets
by some previous PMs.
Although it can hardly be considered as a heartfelt
and truthful APOLOGY… most koreans have come to see
that ambiguity is japanese by nature and would rather move on.
Now, are you guys sure that Japan, economically battered
after 15 years of recession, is not the one stirring the
ashes of the past?
The future generation of japanese will grow blissfully ignorant of the past horrors….
Would it be sooooo unreasonable to think that there is
some chance that the right wing in Japan will eventually
win back the position once it had?
The greatest distortion of history seems to be occurring in the present-tense, for example from the Christian Science Monitor today:
‘Beat the Japanese military state.’ (from a placard carried by on Chinese protester)
“Japan is not ready to be on the Security Council if it lies to its people about history.”
of course this is ironic considering that China lies to and represses its society about anything that might enhance the security of the Chinese Communist Party. Needless to say, the on-going investment in arms in China dwarfs anything in Japan but it is politically convenient to use Japan as a whipping boy. Likewise, the Ouridang has obviously used the Dokdo issue for their own internal political ends.
The article I mentioned is here.
Why are Koreans so hypocritical? It is one thing to complain of “distortions” in Japanese textbooks; it is quite another to claim that Korea (unlike Japan and China, allegedly) does not distort its own history, when it most certainly does.
Of course, one of the most glaring examples of Korean distortion of history can be found at the “Independence Hall” outside Daejeon. In all the halls that comprise this monument, one can find nary a reference to World War II itself and certainly no reference that anyone other than Koreans liberated Korea from the Japanese. It boggles the mind that Koreans could believe that after struggling halfheartedly and unsuccessfully for 35 years to “free” themselves from Japanese control, they were suddenly able to do so. Perhaps the South Koreans also credit that famed anti-Japanese fighter Kil Il-sung.
The most prominent reference to U.S. forces fighting in the Pacific theater against the Japanese comes in the over-glorification of a statistically insignificant Korean-American National Guard Unit that existed at that time. No mention whatsoever is made of the larger number of Koreans who willingly fought for the Japanese, killing Allied troops and torturing them as POW camp guards.
As far as textbooks, I have seen several Korean school textbooks that contain before the preface a drawing of “Tangun” and some that even claim “Tangun” was an actual existing historical figure. For that matter, some Korean periodicals still date themselves according to the “Tangun” calendar. How is that for distortion and lies?
Finally, who doubts that the most seriously distorted textbooks of all can be found in North Korea? Yet, once again, not a peep from the South Koreans.
Until Koreans acknowledge their hypocrisy they should not expect the Japanese to acknowledge theirs.
we japanese are really different; the chinese and koreans use spoons and chopsticks while we japanese only use chopsticks
I really wonder sometimes if you guys get the “Japan is unique” meme drilled into your heads as some kind of official propaganda. It’s so old, I got the t-shirt at Goodwill.
“We Koreans are really different, we use metal chopsticks, but Japanese and Chinese don’t.”
“We are the only ones in the world who eat a special kind of sticky rice.”
“Korea is unique for having four distinct seasons and five thousand years of history.”
Memity meme meme meme!
(BTW, I got a “Dokdo Sarang” t-shirt from Emart yesterday).
This time S. Korea seems to be on the same side as
China… and it is unsettling for many of us for a diversity
of reasons.
but look…
can you name a single country in the entire asian continent
(from middle east to JAPAN) where the grass root
democracy and civil awareness has a firm grip as in S. Korea?
tear me apart if I am wrong,
but if Japan wants to be a leader in NE Asia
it HAS to go with the blessing of S. Korea…
It is not fair of you guys that try to portray the surge
of anti-Japanese feelings in Korea mainly due to the
government’s internal politics manipulations.
Dind’t you guys see last year’s empeachment trial?
Even many of Roh oppositors were reluctant to disrrupt the
democratically elected presidency.
I think that Roh doesn’t need to play dirty tricks on its
would-be ally to consolidate his power.
And most of you foreigners fail to see the FUNDAMENTAL
difference between S. Korea and other neighboring countries
(China/Japan). The last two are top-down nations while
S. Korea is the opposite…
The past jestures of regret by high level representatives are
not working because Japan is failing to convince the
basis of moderate koreans…..
In short, Japan needs to be consistent in its approach.
It can not say “I regret” on day and come back another
and claim “back” what is clearly a spoil of its “glorious” military
expansion, i.e. “Dokto”….
Dogbert…
Please, tell me how many died because of Korea’s
whitewashing of its history (I acknowledge that).
Now, as for Japan….. MILLIONS died in the most horrific
way and MILLIONS suffered that generations after the
memory is still fresh.
Please, you are discrediting yourself by making comparison of
issues that are of totally different magnitude.
Actually, I should mention that the “We are unique in having four seasons” meme is not alone to Korea but is actually shared by both Korea and Japan. The “5000 years of history” also happens to be the meme of choice in China.
Locust, what are you talking about? Is it OK for Koreans to lie to themselves and others as long as Japan does the same? Let’s say that the suspect Japanese textbook is revised/withdrawn. Do you then expect that Koreans will account accurately for their own history, or will they continue to sugarcoat things?
It is a fact that many Koreans fought willingly for the Japanese in WWII (hi President Park!) and that many of those killed American and other Allied troops.
The Japanese brought beer to Korea and that’s good enough for me.
Thank you for the interesting thoughts, Locust. I don’t want to play “tit of tat”, either, but I admit to being annoyed by the fact that many Koreans in positions of leadership in academia and government maintain that both Japan and China “distort” history, while simultaneously maintaining that Korea does not. And am especially annoyed by South Koreans’ seeming acceptance of North Korea’s vile distortions of Korean history.
There is a hypocrisy there that is counterproductive.
Your argument in part seems based on the fact that Japan killed numerous Koreans. Fair enough, but I wonder if Korea’s protestations against China’s understanding of history (most recently, vis-a-vis Goguryeo) are also grounded in the fact that China also killed numerous Koreans during the years 1951-1953. I doubt it.
Again, there is a distinct double standard at play that is counterproductive to Korea’s desire to gain sympathy from other nations due to their victim status in relation to Japan.
You say we are switched here. That is perhaps also true. However, I note that in the case of the U.S., there are numerous Americans who disbelieve the standard American version of history that is taught without living in fear of being called “un-American”. Who in Korea dares (or would even think) to challenge the standard Korean mythology?
?橫Korea is unique for having four distinct seasons and five thousand years of history.??
Duh, like we haven’t already heard this before a million times here in Korea, but thanks anyway for stating the obvious.
Just a typical example from a Wikipedia article on Japan.
“Japan’s isolation until the arrival of the “Black Ships” and the Meiji era produced a culture distinctively different from any other, and echoes of this uniqueness persist today …”
This belief can be heard by any foreigner in Japan so often (frequently prefaced by “???????…”) and is believed so fervently as to cause me to wonder if this is actually taught as dogma in school. The point is, Korea is not the only country where people, who ought to know better and might be reasonable about other matters, persistently hold beliefs that don’t withstand even the most elementary scrutiny. The “we are unique” superstition in Japan is almost as weird and prima facie false as “we’re the only country in the world that has four seasons,” which makes me wonder if it’s some lingering state propaganda from 50 years ago.
The japanese brought civilization to Korea. But guys like locus or toolji will start foaming at the mouth once that is broght up. And to be fair, korea showed japan some pottery.
Koreans cant seem to understand that its normal for nations to take ideas from each other. It happends throught histoary.
Today Korea claims to be cradle of all things japanese. Korea being the seed of everything in japan is part of Koreas “koreawashing” of history. In 20 years Koreans will claim that Koreans invented TV shows in Japan with Yonsama. By then, Yonsama will be married with his husband.
Locust, you raise compelling points, but allow me to make some counterpoints. First off, you asked how many have died because Korea whitewashed its history. One can argue a lot, because much of the dictatorial period was spent trying to cover up some of the disagreeable histories of the individuals in charge, let alone the numbers that have had to perish in North Korea to keep a system afloat, in which official histories play an important part. That’s neither here nor there, however. Let me ask, how many people have died as a result of Japan whitewashing its history? For the last 50 years — the duration of this whitewashing campaign — the most offensive thing Japan has done is Hello Kitty. China, meanwhile, has fought border skirmishes (if you can call them border skirmishes) with India, the Soviet Union and Vietnam, and fought an all-out war in Korea. The U.S. has fought two full wars in East Asia, in Korea and Vietnam. I’m not even going to get into the kinds of suffering brought on to the Chinese people by their own government during the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution — how high does the butcher’s bill have to go before the difference between “deaths inflicted by invasion̶