I know I mentioned it before, but this is simply too much. From the Chosun Ilbo:
South Korean Ambassador to Geneva Choi Hyuk has taken up historical distortions in Japanese textbooks at the 61st meeting of the UN Human Rights Commission (UNHRC). “This year is the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II,” Choi said Thursday. “If we don’t learn the lessons from the mistakes of history, we are doomed to repeat them.”
Choi said a whitewash of Japanese wartime atrocities in a middle school textbook passed by Japan’s Education Ministry on Wednesday was “a factor of serious concern for Korea.”
Why does this anger me? Also from today’s Chosun Ilbo:
The government has decided to abstain from voting on a UN Human Rights Commission (UNHRC) resolution condemning violations of human rights in North Korea, it was learned from government sources on Thursday.
…
“Given the ongoing nuclear negotiations and the special character of intra-Korean relations, which are moving in the direction of reconciliation and cooperation, we feel there is no need to provoke the North by voting on the resolution,” officials said. The government walked out of a vote in 2003 and abstained last year.
OK, so let me get this straight. Japanese textbooks whitewashing what the country did 50 years ago is a “a factor of serious concern,” but gulags, public executions and reports of chemical weapons testing on political prisoners in North Korea aren’t? Oh, wait — former Minister of Unification Jeong Se-hyun had already answered that question back in 2003:
The official refusal to speak out about the human-rights abuses of Kim Jong Il’s regime was on full display last week during an interview with the South’s minister of unification, whom I met on the day the gulag report was released. For North Koreans, Minister Jeong Se Hyun said, “political freedom is a luxury, like pearls for a pig. The improvement of economic conditions for the North Korean people is the most important issue right now.”
If we don’t learn the lessons from the mistakes of history, we are doomed to repeat them? Yeah, no shit. I just finished Kang Chol-hwan’s The Aquariums of Pyongyang: Ten Years in the North Korean Gulag.
UPDATE: As Joshua put it, I guess they’ll say they never knew.
66 Comments
Nice juxtaposition, Marmot. Keep unearthing the hypocrisy.
THANK you. When will this country wake up?
I wonder how much damage this does to South Korea in opinion around the world? How do people who don’t pay attention to Korea take things like this? How to, say, political figures in Europe see it? My thinking is that the level of shit is so high, how far does the stink travel?
I have a blind guess that when South Korea goes onto the floor of the UN and complains bitterly about another (soverign) nation’s school text books —- when these people are conditioned by routine info about atrocities occuring regularly in different parts of the world — when there are bloody conflicts happening in different places right now — when people are starving to death or are being ravaged by disease or natural disaster —- these people probably have at least some form of significant reaction somewhere along the lines we do.
I do believe if more people payed attention to South Korea and had read this news over time, South Korea would find that it continues to dig big holes to bury itself.
Remember this when they say they did not know.
?橫political freedom is a luxury, like pearls for a pig”
It’s funny how this comes from the left-wing ilk that says the exact opposite when blasting Park Chung Hee. Also, the South Korean gov’t does deserve criticism for abstaining at the UNHRC, but honestly, has the UN reacted to the votes? All the UN has done is send a naive Thai professor whose report urged the North Koreans to grant access to prison camps.
As for the text book issue, before South Koreans further their dramatic efforts, the United States government should bring up the issue about Jungyogjo (Teachers’ Union) textbooks, which refer to the USFK as “colonial occupiers” that “step on our men and use our women like toys.” They also accuse the US of starting the Korean War. 1/3 of South Korean teachers are union members, and their intentions are obvious when you see teachers take their students on “class trips” to anti-American protests, calling them “educational opportunities.”
You people in this shitty blog has no idea what the hell is going on in this small peninsula.
Korean peninsula is so strategically important to both United States and China. North East asia’s power balance can be shifted easily by what Korea especially S.Korea chooses to do.
I don’t like Roh Muh Hyun as much as you guys do and those left wing faggots. But you americans are the true state of hypocracy not us.
You just don’t get it do you?? well at least your government figured this out long time ago.
South Korea is intentionally overreacting to this historical distortion and Dok Do problem. Jap politician provoking SKorea has happened for over 50 years. But now days suddenly media is only talking about Dok Do and Jap’s text book.
Roh is not doing this just to become more popular like you guys are saying. This is all targetted at Americans not Japs. South Korea is threatening America and warning U.S. that South Korea can get out of JAPAN-United States-Skorea orbit by improving relationship with China. If S Korea is preparing divorce with US this could be a big problem to Japan. That is why Koizumi is ignoring Chinese reaction but telling Koreans to calm down.
Roh is not stupid he knows what he is doing and this is the first time i like his strategy.
Uh, thank you, 1234, for that wonderful explanation. Shows that while we on this “shitty blog” might not have a clue what’s happening on this small peninsula, clearly, neither do you. And I hope you really do like Roh’s strategy this time, because I have a sickening feeling that Korea is going to be paying the consequences for quite some time.
your welcome
consequences??? what consequences????
1234,
You were taught by Korean media that the U.S. wants to stay in Korea. The truth is the U.S. does not care. It never cared. Jimmy Carter wanted to pull troops out back in 1970’s. However, the U.S. needed a place to train troops. That is THE REASON that US troops stayed in Korea.
So, now you like Rho’s pro-North and pro-China policy. Well, what is going to happen next if this goes on.
1) Complete withdrawal of the U.S. troops from SK
2) SK becomes a part of Chinese block nation, which NK already is.
3) China’s per-capita income is $1,000 while SK’s is about $18,000. Do you think any master will leave a servant to live better than him? No way, man. China will take everything out of SK. Companies, men(to be used as low wge slave), women(low wage sex slaves) and all natural resource. SK will become like NK is now.
4) China will start a war with Japan. Who will be their front troops(?????????)? Koreans.
Are you still for Rho?
consequences??? what consequences????
Yeah, that’s precisely the same thinking going on in Cheong Wa Dae. The fact that you even had to ask is telling.
Dave Fams - could you keep posts on topic? Thanks.
you do have a point.
Well don’t get me wrong I’m very pro american Korean male consider how so many young Koreans are anti american.
I do hate Roh and especially left wing fucks like Ohmynews and HanChongRyun.
complete withdrawl of US troops will cause problem for SK but it doesn’t mean that we will be absorbed by CHina.
We are already block nation of US anyway either way we are the front line and i’m gonna have to fight but i don’t want to. If china starts a war with Japan Korean ground troops have to fight Chinese not U.S. troops.
You will bomb the shit out of Chinese with your high tech bombers but we will have to fight with our crappy K-2 rifle.
1234,
Koreans are spoiled under American protection. I am a KoreanAmerican and I know many things that average Koreans do not, because I have served in the U.S. military. Korean media is run by people who do not have worldclass view; it is a frog that teaches other frogs in the same well. It is like a blind leading another blind.
It is obvious to anyone outside of Korea that anti-American policy is the same thing as pro-Chinese policy. Why can’t Koreans see this simple truth? Or, are you refusing to see it because the consequence is too horrible to believe? ???????? ??????????! Korea is becoming a Chinese dog. Yes, you will serve Chinese masters.
China made what NK is like today. Isn’t it obvious that SK will turn into another NK? Why can’t you get this through to your head. No internet. No travel to outside. No freedom. Massive political prison camps. Why not?
This can and will happen to SK. Mark my words.
Your view is extreme Baduk and i completely disagree with you that we are chinese dog. We are still americand dog trying to escape from the leash.
Hello Dave Fams. How many of those caught were Chinese with stolen Korean passports?
1234,
Korea is surrounded by three very evil countries, China, Russia and Japan. With small population and less military resources, Korea needs a friend. And, it has got one,the U.S.
The U.S is rich. It will take some from Korea but not much. Wait till the poor Chinese rush into Korea. Just you wait! They will take everything. SK will turn into NK overnight.
Remember what happened under Japanese rule? All high class jobs, police, military, education and government jobs to Japanese only. The same thing here. All these jobs will be taken by the Chinese. Companies, banks and schools will be run by the Chinese. China will own Korea.
Or, they may just set up a puppet like Kim in the North. A dictator who will follow their direction verbatim. And, this dictator will soak all the riches of Korea and hand them to the Chinese. I know this is what happened in NK.
Yes, rather than suffering the fate of NK, I will have American protection any day.
So what do you suggest we should do? then
1234,
Korea is overreacting to Japan as a warning to the US? What exacting is Korea warning the US to do or not to do?
What is Roh trying to say besides, “Hey, I’m over here. Look at me. Look at me, damn it! Well, maybe you will look at me if I do this. NO? Well, how about this? No? Well, if you don’t pay attention to me, I swear I’m gonna….”
As for Roh’s strategy, I do not think Roh even knows what it is. I think he is so busy trying to cover up his blunders that he does not have time to form a strategy. He seems to be tripping and then jumping up and saying, “Hey, I meant to do that,” and then goes on to do something even more stupid to try to give the impression that his tripping was part of his strategy all along.
What I see happening is South Korea sounding and acting more and more like China and North Korea. This is because Koreans are intimidated by China and even North Korea and think that by kissing up to them they will keep them at bay. China and North Korea, of course, see South Korea’s fear and are taking advantage of it just as a classroom bully takes advantage of an intimidated classmate. If Korea breaks away from Japan and the US, Chinese and North Korean intimidation will only increase.
The US was in South Korea during the Cold War because enough people with influence argued it was a key nation in containment policy.
With the end of the Cold War, we have been in SK because to leave them while they still faced a cold war level threat of their own (while ours had disappeared) would have been a shitty thing to do. Also, the power of the status quo is powerful.
Now, however, South Korea has opened a perfect door for US troops to exit from. The more SK defends NK and talks of moving toward China as it becomes “the new #1 superpower” — the more the US staying in SK makes the US look like complete f-ing idiots. More importantly, the more it gives US policy makers the perfect excuse to take US troops out of Korea and use them elsewhere or save on defense spending — transferring USFK costs elsewhere — hopefully to American hometowns.
I have to say I believe their is a consistency in Roh’s different actions, and I believe it is connected to a common thought in SK. They believe China will soon be the new #1 power, and they want to move closer to an Asian “superpower” because they have some vague — even subconscious — idea that it will somehow be better for them than the white devils.
(I was once hounded off a subway in Seoul by a very old frail man giving a speech on the subway which he then turned into very good English when he saw me —- as he laid out his case for everyone, he would stop every 2nd line to yell — “Russian devils — American devils — Go Home! Go Home!” then start back with “Why is Korea divided? Russian devils and American devil!” and comments about how my shoes were new and life was good for me………when my shoes were at least 3 years old.)
1234,
Change back to where Korea was before these student radicals like KimDaeJoong and RhoMuhyun started preaching their near-sighted stupidity like becoming the “power-broker in the region”, which is thinly-veiled efforts to sell out Korea to China.
Just stay close to the U.S. This does not mean giving up Dokdo. But, it may mean staying anti-North. Korea may have to decrease its contact with China and Russia because these two have ulterior motives about SK.
And, do not weaken defense! Never, never do this. The strong defense can come only when strengthening ties with the U.S. Instead of giving to the North Korea, give to the U.S. Increase trade with the U.S. while reducing that with China.
I know Korea can make much money in China. However, as people and culture trades increase, pro-Chinese population will increase. This is exactly what happened in 1900. More people travelled to Japan and got enamored by Japanese civilization and they started to imagine being the Japanese dog. These people sold out Korea to Japan.
Koreans must stay in American side. When the Chinese gets rich, then Korea may decide differently. But, not now. China will plunder Korea.
usinkorea you should be glad that at least he said russian devil.
Ok any way i want to hear your suggestion what SKoreans should do.
1234,
Some in Korea think that the world is different now . Even if Koreans kick out Americans from SK, the world community will somehow protect Korea from eaten up by China, Russia or Japan.
They are wrong!
There is no world community! I am saying this over and over. THERE IS NO WORLD COMMUNITY!
Nobody will come when China absorbs Korea. Nobody!!!
Without the U.S. protection(nobody knows how strong it was or it is now), Korea is a naked girl in the black slum, waiting to be toyed and killed.
Baduk, I think you need to educate yourself more thoroughly on North Korean-Chinese political relations before you start ranting off about some imaginary Chinese takeover of the Korean peninsula. If you are even vaguely aware of the history of the PRC and DPRK, you would realize how baseless those accusations of Chinese domination are. Allegations of Chinese plundering of North Korea are completly baseless, the present economic condition of the DPRK isn’t from China looting North Korea’s assets, but Kim’s economy policies.
Baduk, You just completely lost me (and probably everyone else) with that racist analogy.
I was hoping that some of the Korean commenters would actually talk about what’s going on in North Korea. Just once, I’d like to hear an acknowledgement of what’s going on up there that doesn’t end with the word “but.”
1234,
With the cards to play right now, if I were South Korea, I’d definately push for more reciprocity from NK as I Sunshined them. Things like getting NK to pull back military assests from near the DMZ. Opening mail or phone service for at least seperated families. Market reforms. And better human rights.
But, I would concentrate most on the US (and Japan)’s concern with NK’s nuke to have them commit to what they will do for South Korea if/when NK collapses. Instead of getting into a major war of words with Japan over islets Korea controls, I’d get Japan and the US to commit to pouring major amounts of aid grants and low interest loans to (South) Korea if North Korea collapses. That would be my cost for SK agreeing with Japan/USA to put pressure on NK over the nuclear issue.
I would also leave any plans I was making to move Korea closer to China behind closed doors until China is much stronger than it is right now.
If SK believes its future interests lie near China and away from the US, fine. But it is way too early to start counting the chickens before they hatch while slapping in the face the farmer you require for supplies in the meantime.
Right now, there is a very, very good chance Ole McDonald is planning to take its eggs out of Korea’s basket.
“three very evil countries”? What in the world? So the Russians, Chinese and Japanese are evil? Baduk, your verbal extremism is no different from the finger chopping ajumma extremism. Tone it down. What would sound like a rational advice from someone else, you manage to discredit.
And while I agree with the SK-US alliance, I believe such choices should be along the lines of personal opinion.
Some posters are trying to make this a battle between absolute evil vs. absolute good. Opinions on whether it would be more beneficial for Korea or the region’s stability if Korea was more pro-American, pro-Chinese, squat-in-the-middle is all constuctive and informing. But for those guys making it a battle of GOOD vs. EVIL, you just remind me of the Crusades, when Europeans rushed the Middle East arrogantly thinking they were the “good” guys. The “us” and “them” perspective many of you here demonstrate also reminds me of those very “xenophobic” Koreans you criticize. Just remember how xenophobic you yourselves are when you draw a line in the sand and arrogantly judge everybody living on the other side as “them”, the “enemy”, the “evil dudes” based on the fact that you don’t know them that well, they are from less developed countries, or are just different from you.
Please, I love reading constructive and intelligent comments left here by thoughtful posters and Marmot. Let’s not mess this up by incoherent and overzealous rantings.
onefreekorea,
I’m glad I ran into you. Could you change the reference to my http://www.usinkorea.org site from your old geocities site where you say I’m Ben Eller? I’m not. Thanks. And the new site off Area Studies is http://www.usinkorea.org…..
I just found your site while checking notes to my site. I’ll add it to my koreasojourner blog list where my criteria is blogs that focus on social/political issues related to Korea and post several times a week.
I tried to send you email about this, but it didn’t go through….
Usinkorea, Will do and thanks–is tomorrow ok? Guess that explains why “Ben Eller” never answered my e-mails.
Juan,
Do you know anything about Korean history?
1) Japan is evil because it took over Korea and plundered resources and used Koreans as they saw fit. If you are a Korean, you will have no objection to this. And it is still evil as seen by Dokdo, shrine and textbook. Yes, Japan loves to take over Korea once more.
2) Russia is evil because it set up KimIlSung regime in NK. Of course, you will say the U.S. did the same thing. Well, look at the difference between SK and NK now. You still say these two countries are the same? Russia as the USSR plundered every Soviet block nations. There is no disagreement on this. Just as any Polish or citizens from any former Eastern block nations. NK got plundered as well.
3) China is just as evil. During Korean war, it invaded Korea without any reason. It felt the communism must spread and it poured into Korea and fought the U.S. and South Korean soldiers. China prevented two Koreas from uniting(take note of this, you Rho frogs!) and it still keeps NK alive. If China stops oil shipment to NK, Kim’s regime will fold within six months. China took from NK resources. When NK gets freed from China grip, many facts will be revealed.
And, someone brought the possibility of NK collapsing. Again, China, and possibly Russia, will pour into NK territory with no justification other than greed. Yes, GREED. That is why Russia came in after WWII and that is why China came in during Korean War.
America came in to stop spread of communism.
There is difference. The proof is the economic prosperity of SK.
China is evil. Look at it now. Trying to invade Taiwan. Shooting machine guns to the unarmed crowd. Do you think China is different from 1950’s China? I don’t think so.
Let’s call an evil evil. Why else would China try to stamp out Taiwan democracy? I think Pres. Bush is right. NK working as a Chinese pawn is an evil government.
Far East Asia will be a peaceful place if
1) China abandon its ambition about Taiwan
2) NK abandon nuke program
3) Japan stop ridiculous attempt to land grab
4) China, NK and Russia become more democratic
5) SK stops begging for NK-like future.
Baduk, you sound just like a lunati.. oops I mean, “YoMo”. Any possiblity that you are “YoMo”?
Do you know the story about SinUiJoo development happened about three years ago? KimJI went to China and met a Chinese businessman. They thought they got the OK from the Chinese officials to develop a city in North Korea, SinUiJoo, near the China-NK border.
The businessman was named the mayor of the city and it was advertized in SK media as one evidence that NK was opening up. However, the businessman was arrested in China for some corruption charges,which was never clearly explained, and the development plan was abandoned.
Obviously, KJI and this businessman were talking to the wrong guy in the Chinese government and the real strongman(Hu JinTao?) stopped this. As you can see from this story, KJI is just a pawn.
Baduk… I consider myself a pro-american… but… I think you are taking your ban-gong education a bit too far. I mean, you can add to your list of evil countries like this:
Evil Country Number Four:
United States of America–Teddy Roosevelt signed Japan’s “rights” to Korea in exchange for America’s “rights” in the Phillipines. In addition, America colluded with the Soviets to partition the country.
Evil Country Number Five Six:
South Korea North Korea. North Korea being evil, does not need to be mentioned on this post. South Korea waged a war in Vietnam as a mercenary force for it’s own economic gain. In addition, South Korean government failed to heed to legitimate interests of women’s rights, union rights, chinese minority rights, etc etc.
Well… you know, Korea owes a lot to Japan for developing games like baduk. And where would Korea be without Mazinger Z and Eunha Chuldo 999. I just want to say that I am having a Martin Luther King Jr moment right now and believe that Korea can co-exist with China, Russia, and Japan in a fruitful partnership where Korea acts as a “hub.” But of course, “hub” thing can’t happen when anti-business interests control the country…
But seriously, the hatchet needs to be buried and paranoia has to be controlled. 1 billion chinese people aren’t going to swim across Apdonggang, face painted blue, wearing kilts, trying to steal Korean cars, our women, our kimchi, and our national PrideTM. And the Japanese, in another 30 years Shintaro will be dead and turned to dust. Everyday i read in the papers that US and CHina is destined to battle against each other over oil.
People always think in terms of competition of resources and the Malthusian lie. Why won’t they talk about synergy and increased human brain power? Of course, you know what does scare me though? The crazy gender inbalance in Asian born babies. Too many sexually frustrated single men might be more prone to launching nukes.
Not denying economic properity of SK thanks to a large part to the U.S. and that yes democracy may be a better system then many other systems.
Otherwise please don’t discredit your opinions with the “evil”, “us vs. them” nonsense. If I extrapolate your “logic”, all countries are evil(including your answer to all human woe on earth: the U.S.)
Well, you guys all bought into a “world community”, “end of Cold War era”,”peaceful co-existence” and “all hate is bad”.
Come off your ivory tower, babies.
If the U.S. looks the other way, China will launch an attack on Taiwan today. Today! Stop saying these are all good people and we are civilized crap.
Too many lovey-dovey, vegetarian, spaced-out school childrens educated at Berkerley and Boston! Some of them even made into Korean universities.
The world is not a peaceful place in general. Only the U.S., Canada and some European countries have peace. But, not the rest of the world, Middle East, Africa and parts of Asia. Look around.
Look at Japan. Trying to grab a land while it can.
Only thing you can trust is strong military and mutual-defense treaty! Nothing else.
“United States of America??Teddy Roosevelt signed Japan??s ?橫rights?? to Korea in exchange for America??s ??rights?? in the Phillipines. ”
I don’t believe it. There is another such nonsense about England allowing Japan to take over Korea. Even if these exist, that in any way absolve Japan’s action.
“In addition, America colluded with the Soviets to partition the country.”
The U.S. wanted to play fair. Russia used it as an opportunity to take over the North Korea.
Every country has some skeletons in the closet. The U.S. did not have much and it is correcting its past mistakes.
Russia, China and even Japan still live in 1950’s. Nothing much have changed for these people. Yes, these people. They still live like they did in the middle of ColdWar era.
Russia is ruled by mobs and may retard back to Communism. At least it is a dictatorship. The same is true in China.
Japan should have been more civilized by now. But, looking at Dokdo, I seriously doubt any progress has been made from 1940’s Japan.
Roh-dong missile lacks guidance. Minifiction.
This kind of hypocrisy is old news, Marmot.
Of course they would ignore the North Korean concentration camps while screaming at anyone who would listen about the Japanese white-washing their history. I’ll buy a taco for anyone who didn’t see that coming.
I’m more concerned about the here-and-now… so until South Korea pulls their head out of the ground and actually confronts the North about their human rights issues, I see now reason to waste my time entertaining Korea’s complaints about Japan.
the conservatives in korea need to make their voices known.
people need to dig up the chinese textbooks that lie about china’s role in the korean warn. they need to make placards of chinese soldiers in their quilted uniforms running across korea during the korean war and stand in front of the chinese embassy in my?ngdong and complain that the chinese are just as bad as the japanese. be sure to invite the news cameras. have a few posters that say ‘kogury? is our history.’
and for good measure, park geunhye and a few others should, in any speeches they make on kwangbokch?l (liberation day) should include a concise but clear thank you to the u.s., u.k., australian, new zeland, and other allied troops without whom independence would not have come.
and let’s remind people that china does not exercise freedom of religion, something that is very important here.
the conservatives need to rationally and firmly counter roh’s nonsense. the japanese textbook issue may be important, but a ‘diplomatic war’ is against korea’s interests. the public needs to be educated why. flirting with control freak china is a good way to get a black eye.
it’s time the conservatives start calling a spade a spade and they whip out the rhetoric against china that the left uses on japan (and that the right participates in as well).
Nora, I think you’ve hit bull’s eye on one of the greatest problems facing South Korea: the crippled and lackluster right-wing. Fortunately, there are some bright young right-wingers in South Korea such as Park Jin.
One thing I’d like to add is that once someone gets the ball rolling, it won’t take much for South Koreans to increasingly voice their displeasure towards China and nurture it to an unprecedented level. And if the Chinese government’s trying to leverage on and nurture South Korea’s displeasure towards Japan at the moment, Hu Jintao Co. should realize they will inevitably be next with a more potent version of South Korean nationalism. Simply, the sad truth is everyone in the region, as long as they are involved with major economic/military matters on the peninsula, is a target of the counter-productive version of South Korean nationalism that’s fueled by the victim-complex-loving left-wing.
“America colluded with the Soviets to partition the country.
WTF?
The US “colluded” with Russia in order to accept the Japanese surrender in the southern half of the peninsula. It had absolutely nothing to do with dividing the country. The Russians locked the borders.
It was a gutsy and noble, but much overlooked and even more maligned decision that the Americans could even do this much to save even half the country at the time when Russia had declared war on Japan, what…eight days earlier and already had troops massed on the border.
If Stalin had told Truman to screw himself there’s not a damn thing the US could have done to prevent Russia from taking all of Korea in 1945.
AWESOMEST. POST. EVER. Marmot, you’ve outdone yourself. Thanks for exposing this most delicious paradox.
Virtual Wanderer: Russia had tanks and troops in the penninsula before Americans and if Washington hadn’t gotten the Russians to agree to stop at the 38th parallel then it would all have fallen under their control. Instead, America took the “Korea Question” to the United Nations and proposed that Koreans should be able to decide their own future (Sept ‘47). The Soviets refused to let UN reps into the North to conduct voting. I suppose if you want to blame America for something it must be for not being able to force the Soviets to open up the North to voting. But, are you saying the US should have started WWIII just two years after finishing WWII?
Mingi: Can you tell me where in this teacher’s union textbook it says those things about America being a ‘colonizing force’ and ’stepping on men, using our women as toys’? I’ve never heard this but would like to see it myself. Have you ever considered writing an editorial to one of the newspapers about it? Good example of “the pot calling the kettle black” in regards to Japanese textbooks.
[...] t important issue right now. Thats a good point, but it only goes so far. Join the fray in the comments section! (I weep for the fu [...]
North Korea is a comfort woman to South Korea, and the South maintains the North’s health for the sole purpose of ruthless exploitation to satisfy selfish desires. Indeed, in time, this pig will wear a pearl necklace.
koreans dont give a fuck is they get screwed by anyone except the US or Japan
Mcnut — where that description applies to the current administration is a matter for debate, but a lot of the groups doing the protesting in front of the Japanese embassy (at least initially) are just as concerned about China as they are about Japan. And need I point out that the GNP — Korea’s largest opposition party — is VERY concerned about Chinese intentions. Heck, the lawmaker who submitted the bill into the National Assembly to nullify the Kando Convention is a member of the ruling Uri Party.
I’d prefer it if we left the blanket statements at the door.
Good conversation. Lots of common sense here. Keep it up!
Geronimo,
Last year, while I was working in Seoul, I got hold of two textbooks that the Union published in 2003. Someone I knew got a hold of it for me. When I showed it to the Union HQ, they said it was Union material. They do have some stuff on their website (http://www.ktu.or.kr/). I don’t have the Korean wordprocessor program (’arae-hangul’), so I couldn’t read the stuff they have made public. But the material I got hold of was genuine and definitely inline with the numerous Union members I talked to at anti-American protests.
The Union textbooks have been mentioned in several publications, including Time magazine last year:
http://www.time.com/time/asia/.....story.html
I.m going to try a Cha-esque reading of this particular episode.
Both the Dokdo/Takeshima and textbooks issues are old proxy battles for Tokyo and Seoul. From the 1965 normalization treaty to the period 75-79, Seoul and Tokyo did not let Dokdo/Takeshima sideline other aggreements. The textbook affair has also surfaced, only to be politely forgotten with good PR. The shining example of this is the Chun-Nakasone era when fierce disagreements were buried under PM Nakasone’s statement of regret and the Showa Emperor’s apology. This episode hardly compared to the “nadir” (as Cha identifies it) in the period from Kim Dae-jung’s kidnapping to Mun Se-kwang’s assasination of the South Korean First Lady.
Only once before has Washington, under President Carter, threatened to withdraw from the region. Both Tokyo and Seoul disagreed about how to deal with Pyongyang, exactly in the opposite way the two quasi-allies disagree. Seoul was anti-engagement then, and Tokyo pro-engagement. Tokyo was also more powerful than Beijing. Now, Tokyo and Seoul have switched places, and Beijing is in the ascendant. From 75-9, Seoul lost aid and loans from Tokyo and Japanese private sources, but then after Washington re-engaged, and Chun and Nakasone were in office, there was a public campaign to gloss over disagreements and to funnel aid and loans into South Korea.
I would argue we should all wait for the next ROK, Japanese, and Washington administrations, and for China to prove its economy can endure. The only issue I would debate is how much longer will the textbook and Dokdo/Takeshima issues be effective as shorthand for ROK-Japan relations? At what point will the ROK admit that it has gotten all the money and technology transfer it needs from Japan? That’s the ROK-Japan dynamic I see: Seoul uses the two issues as cover for its aid and tech infusions. The rest is China and the DPRK, and a little is purely domestic. Once the aid/tech infusions are no longer wanted, the spectacles surrounding Dokdo/Takeshima and the textbooks will disappear. I await a summit between Roh and Koizumiin the future with some grand theater.
What I don’t expect between the ROK, China, and Japan is any sort of Germany-France style introspection, because east Asia is too inured to tragedy and violence for the Big Three to compromise. I just see endless repetitions of this same cycle of proxy warfare every few years or so. By the time the DPRK and ROK are ready to talk about unification, I expect there will be at least one hot war and several periods of cold war. I would not look for absolutist explanantions, like culture or race, but look solely to cyclical historical ones
“1) Japan is evil because it took over Korea and plundered resources and used Koreans as they saw fit. If you are a Korean, you will have no objection to this. And it is still evil as seen by Dokdo, shrine and textbook. Yes, Japan loves to take over Korea once more.”
I stopped reading there. That is totally absurd.
I’m Korean. I’m gonna anger every Korean by writing this, but I think it’s VERY true.
We Koreans had to serve several foreign masters ever since the Kims “united” Korea. (Was this even a unification? It looked more like present day South Korea)
China, Russia, Japan, and the United States.
Best master of these was the US.
Korea had chances to become truly independent, and to become the master of mainland China. Everytime that choice was there, the Koreans fought among themselves, and the party favoring being China’s servant prevailed. Kims took out Koguryo. Lees took out Koryo.
This is in stark contrast to what the Manchus and the Mongols did.
China itself was ruled by foreign “barbarian” nations for hundreds of years.
I don’t trust the Chinese. They don’t want a strong Korea and neither does Japan. They’re all out to use Korea for their benefits. Kim Jong Il’s mini-economic plan was sacked by China, yet Kim must still kiss ass towards China, its only protector.
I hope Kim Jong Il and his family either die or go live in Paris. France. They should accept a former foreign leader in exile, right?
[...] at Japans whitewashing of its history books, but then I figured I could just throw a couple of links to the Marmot and to One Free Korea and [...]
WKJ the USA isnt koreas master. China and japan were, but the usa isnt. Korea does what she wants to. Koreans are so used to blaming usa for everything they confuse USA with being a master like Japan and China.
Korea goes to every war the US goes to.
Let me clarify. To America, Korea isn’t a slave nation. But to Korea, America is a country it cannot upset or defy.
Roh Moo Hyun is an odd ball. He’s nuts.
Even though Roh’s an idiot, even he sends troops to whereever they are requested. Gotta be on good terms with your most significant economic trading partner and possibly the only military force that will defend South Korea in case of an invasion.
To me, the biggest difference between Vietnam and South Korea has been trade with the US. Look at Vietnam. They are begging to trade with the US.
By Kim Heung-sook
Freelance Writer
?橫I have a Japanese friend who sits next to me at school. We are learning the history of Choson in our national history class. Our teacher is a straight-out anti-Japanese. He often goes to extremes to criticize Japan??. Then Shimane Prefecture proclaimed `Takeshima Day,?? sending angry waves throughout Korea??? To make matters worse for Yoko, we had national history class that day. Our teacher was so upset that his face seemed to be burning. Showing a world map, he emphasized that Tokto (Dokdo) is part of our national territory. In doing so, he didn??t forget to denounce Japan. Then suddenly, Yoko began to cry??????
Within two days after the above letter hit “Agora,???? an online forum for public debate on Daum.net, one of the most popular portal sites in Korea, on March 21, nearly 310,000 people read it and hundreds of them left comments, ranging from one-line ripples to lengthy discourses.
“What do you think about the maltreatment, contempt and violence suffered by Koreans in Japan? Have you thought about the Koreans in Japan before talking about your Japanese classmate????? asked the writer of the most-accessed comment by Daum users. More than 7,400 people read the argument in one day.
“I hope Yoko??s tears mean more than simple resentment. I hope that she, though still young, will try to understand why Koreans are this upset about the Japanese measure and correct her historical perceptions, if biased. I??ve heard that Germans shed tears out of shame while looking at materials on the Holocaust. A new relationship can come only when the offender thoroughly repents and apologizes,?? another writer said.
The numerous remarks on the letter from Yoko??s friend could be grouped into two: those who believe that Yoko and other ordinary citizens should be discerned from the right-wing Japanese leaders and Shimane officials who promoted “Takeshima Day,???? and those who don??t. Luckily, I could find a statement on Daum that, I think, spoke for the majority of Koreans.
“I feel sorry for Yoko, but don??t think that the teacher is wrong. The nation and the people are the basis of life and culture??? As long as Tokyo doesn??t apologize sincerely, Korea and Japan can??t build a relationship of mutual respect. It is truly sad that individuals have to suffer from bilateral problems, but we can??t avoid it as long as we live in a world where nationality and sovereignty serve as the basic units of international relations.??
For close watchers of the Korea-Japan relationship, the Tokto dispute may look inseparable from other problems that haunt the two countries. Foreign friends often ask me why Koreans are so unforgiving towards Japanese. Some point out that the Korean government agreed to Japanese conditions for diplomatic normalization in 1965. Others warn that Korea won??t gain much by raising its voice against Japan, whose alliance with the United States is stronger than ever.
As far as I understand, Koreans are quick to forgive, probably because they have short memories and warm hearts. I wonder if Koreans would have acted the same way had Japan apologized to them and other Asians as sincerely as Germany did to its
Read this letter of a Korean who claims a Japanese as a friend. With friends like this who needs enemies.
Some funny parts are when the author claims that Koreans are quick to forgive and have short memories. How many koreans still today talk about Hideyoshi? Try 100%.
Korans cannot forgive anything or anybody. Even Roh admits that Japan apologezed, but he used that old korean trick and claimed it was now invlaid. Just like any agreement that gets a Korean signature. Once the Korean feels he must break it.. he does.
Random Walk] A Letter from Yoko’s Friend
By Kim Heung-sook
Freelance Writer
former victims and helped them to forget about all of the atrocities committed. To accept the unfair terms of normalization was a mistake on the part of the then Korean government, the child of a military coup. Japan, for its part, took advantage of the impoverished Korean situation. Some present-day Koreans question whether Japan is willing to rectify what was done unjustly. As is well known, Koreans are not a pragmatic people. They seldom weigh gains and losses when they pursue something. For them, dignity, values, and feelings come first and that??s why they fail to catch up with countries of Homo economicus in affluence.
Japan is again hoped to ponder if it earnestly wants to build a future-oriented relationship with Korea. If the answer is yes, it will have to assist Korea??s recovery from the scars it incurred decades ago. A proper step in that direction may be bidding farewell to Tokto as beautifully as Pablo Neruda parted with “Island???? in his poem: “Goodbye, goodbye, secret island, rose of purification, navel of gold, we return, all of us, to the duties of our mournful professions and occupations. Goodbye, let the great sea protect you from our brutality!????
What was that? More wishful thinking on my part?
“Our teacher is a straight-out anti-Japanese. He often goes to extremes to criticize Japan…” The teacher is an ass who makes a child cry, so Japan must apologize. Got you. “As is well known, Koreans are not a pragmatic people.” You might replace pragmatic with “tolerant” or “rational” if you are serving up this teacher as a fine specimen.
“Foreign friends often ask me why Koreans are so unforgiving towards Japanese. Some point out that the Korean government agreed to Japanese conditions for diplomatic normalization in 1965.”
–Korea agreed to that in 1965, because it had to. Japan is South Korea’s 2nd largest economic trading partner. Japan has also served as Korea’s source of technology in the past, along with the US. Mitsubishi taught Hyundai how to make cars, from outdated models it no longer had use for. Basically, to my memory, South Korea has been behind Japan, technologically in every category, until very recently. I think now they are on par or are leading in LCD’s, cell phones, and memory. Very recently though. Everything else was a rehearsed copying of what the Japanese have already done, what the US has done, etc.
What else was Korea to do, except be outwardly friendly and grind a sword within? I can’t imagine today’s South Korea economically, if it didn’t normalize relations with Japan in 1965.
I??m Korean. I??m gonna anger every Korean by writing this, but I think it??s VERY true.
WJK:
“We Koreans had to serve several foreign masters ever since the Kims ?橫united?? Korea. (Was this even a unification? It looked more like present day South Korea)China, Russia, Japan, and the United States.Best master of these was the US.”
WJK, How has Korea ever served the US as a “foreign master”? This is the kind of vague claim that cannot be debunked simply because it cannot be supported. What evidence is there for such a claim other than the writer’s emotion?
The reason we Koreans foster irrational resentments is that we hold unsupportable emotion-driven opinions to be facts, when in fact, they are empty rhetoric.
The reality is that we are responsible for our own destiny. The choices we make are ours.
If our leaders are adept at using the generosity of greater powers like the US to help us, then that is to our credit. If they instead look to alienate powerful allies in the name of “independence”, it is to our detriment. Attitudes like yours disempower us, set us on a backwards course and have historically made us ripe for foreign invasion from China and Japan.
Wake up, Korea. Stop bitching and emoting and start taking personal responsibility for your future.
What Koreans want can be shortened into this:
Yankee go home. (and please, take me with you)
[...] g to the German newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) on April 8. Of course I, like the Marmot, think its a worse crime that we h [...]
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