MacArthur gave Tokdo to Korea. Finished. If Japan doesn’t like it, go complain in Washington.

Japan: You started a war. You lost it. So it turns out you lose this island. Finished.

You stated “I have read the early claims by Korea are not solid because when they describe the island they talk about being able to see the island from another island and at least these days that is impossible, raising some doubt about the first Korean claims.”
Hello? Japan claimed that Dokdo was unviewable from Ulloongdo (Another Korean Island that Japan tried to calim for its own) and try to use it as one of their ammos for its cause. BUT anyone who lives in Ulloongdo and anyone who visits Ulloongdo (its a great tourist place) knows Dokdo is perfectly viewable from Ulloongdo! Before one makes a claim they should actually go there and check it out! What do you mean that it is impossible these days? Did the Island migrate?
Also the fishing rights you state as unbelievable. Fishing rights are very important. The reason Japan wants Dokdo now is 1. More land (sea area rather) 2. Better fishing grounds 3. Natural Gas 4. and maybe just maybe other ulterior motives.
Little known fact: There used to be a huge populations of sea lions at Dokdo. A little after Japan claimed first Dokdo and then Korea as its own (yes during the colony period) Japanese fishermen wiped out all the sea lion population in the area. If it was their land I am sure that the Japanese fishermen would have shown a lot more restraint in popultion control. Its like sticking you hands in your neighbors coffers. You don’t show restraint for what you would usually show if it was yours. (They did similar things with a lot of Korean resources, bamboos, gold, national treasures etc.)
You state the fishing story as unbelivable and propaganda. Umm.. sorry to inform you that the fisherman story is actually brought up by Japan as their defense.

Also you state the SCAP instruction. But if you’re right on this it means not only Dokdo but Cheju Island (the biggest Korean Island) and Ulloongdo also belongs to Japan!

Japan has previous claims? Look at the evidence again! Evidence both from Korea and JAPAN! The old documents repeatedly show Dokdo as belonging to Korea.

I fully respect that you are trying to stay on neutral grounds (though slightly leaning on the Japanese side) and are looking at both sides of the story. Most people don’t and it shows that you’re an open person. I hope that you will look at the evidences from both sides (not propaganda, both happening from Korea and Japan) and decide. Thanks

I have read the early claims by Korea are not solid because when they describe the island they talk about being able to see the island from another island and at least these days that is impossible, raising some doubt about the first Korean claims. I have to admit the site you gave is better than I first thought. For the Japanese claim it starts with 1905 and says nothing about previous accounts. But later I found way down at the bottom of the site, it does have previous Japanese claims. I am not convinced as the site states that the Japanese man that wanted to claim the island??s fishing rights was thinking of approaching Korea for fishing rights. It could be true but I highly doubt it and smells a bit like propaganda. Why would anyone from another country ask for another countries island’s fishing rights? It sounds absurd. The only way we will find this out is by doing true research and find the original source. The other good claim Japan has is the SCAP. Upon Japan’s defeat and occupation by the Allies, SCAP Instruction #677 of January 29, 1946 excluded the islands from Japan’s administrative authority. However, the instruction specifically stated that it was not an ‘ultimate determination’ of the islands’ fate, and all other islands listed in the document were eventually returned to Japan. The fact all the other islands went back to Japan tells me if Korea did not take this island over by force and by sinking a Japanese ship it probably would have gone back to Japan. Japan could have continued fighting but after such a short time after WWII and probably US pressure, it decided to call on the international court. Korea has past claims and is in possession of the island now making a good claim. Japan has previous claims and in 1905 by incorporating it into its modern nation state makes a good claim as well.

Wooj. I don’t think that just because I think that both sides have a legit claim to the island, it makes me Anti-Korean. If you can see why Korea does not want to take it to court (for fear of losing it), surely you can see why Japan wants to assert its claim from time to time ( for fear of losing it).

For now, I give you his translation which shows just how seriously other nations are taking Japan’s sudden and increasingly shrill statements towards disputed territories.

From the Russian press, namely Nezavisimaya Gazeta asks the question of, Does Japan Want All The Kuriles?

Paper claims, now they are demanding that Moscow cede “all other northern territories,” and not just the islands of Habomai, Shikotan, Kunashiri and Etorofu.

The Japanese side has never voiced such territorial claims before. Until now, Tokyo saw the Southern Kurile Islands as “the northern territories.” However, now its seems that Japanese parliamentarians have extended this term to mean all the Kuriles.

Apart from territorial claims, Japan is trying to present other claims to Russia stemming from WWII. For instance, Tokyo wants to portray Japanese prisoners of war captured by the Red Army in northeast China, in Korea, South Sakhalin and the Kuriles, as interned persons.

Japan wants to receive material compensation from Russia.

Japan has also stepped up its territorial disputes with China and Korea, which may leave the international community taking a negative view on Tokyo’s “territorial syndrome.”

This insistent approach to presenting claims could convince Tokyo’s neighbors to forge an informal “front” against Japan. However, analysts believe that this would only complicate security in the Far East.

You keep contradicting yourself. First it was a minor politician, so nobody should care. Now it is, “I don??t care if it??s Koizumi himself who claims ownership. Words and resolutions without action mean nothing unless the Koreans give them meaning.” Words have great meaning, especially words that affect other nations either directly or indirectly. You can’t allow yourself to think that actions won’t follow these words, to do so is irresponsible in the extreme.

So, jabber on all you wish about meaningless gestures from Japan. Korea’s reaction is perfectly acceptable given the history between these two. It has nothing to do with being ‘frightened’ and everything to do with sensible security.

As far as the Japanese stopping provocations, yes it is their responsibility. Just like the US does its best to stop certain groups from provoking the Cubans.

Finally, you are kidding yourself to act as if this doesn’t matter. Japan is becoming more and more nationalistic and reactionary. Japan continues to build their armed forces and their rhetoric is becoming more pointed. With that, the entire dynamics of Asia are changing. To blithely ignore these changes is foolishness in the extreme.

It wasn’t that long ago when it was considered ludicrous to think the USSR would ever collapse, laughable to think of the Berlin wall coming down. Why, a person was ignorant of the situation to even think it might happen. To say that changes, even drastic changes in Asia won’t occur is showing lack of forethought as those above.

It is prudence, not fear or ignorance in action here.

Block what? Block Japanese from flying in Japanese airspace? From going in international waters? Send the military in to the Shimane prefecture to put tape over all the local politicians lips and chop off their fingers so can’t write?

“The ambassador to Korea is a minor politician?”

In the absence of a Japanese invasion and physical takeover of the islands — which we all know is not going to happen — I don’t care if it’s Koizumi himself who claims ownership. Words and resolutions without action mean nothing unless the Koreans give them meaning.

The official position of the Japanese government has been that it’s a disputed area and that they believe they own Dokdo. It’s been that way for 50 years, so why does the ambassador repeating that long-held position mean anything more now than it did last month or last year or 10 years ago?

“Because in a situation like this, the longer and louder they shout it without you reacting, the more others might begin to believe it. You defend what is yours.”

For a minute there I thought you were Korean, because that last sentence implies that anyone outside of the Koreans and Japanese give a shit about two rocks. No seriously, are you really saying that the world’s powers are even listening to either side of this scrap, much less caring about it? If you asked George Bush or any other world leader what Dokdo is, you think there’d be something other than a blank stare on their faces? Hmmmm….Iraq, Al-Qaeda, Iran, Chechen rebels, the Sudan, and Dokdo. All matters of grave concern to the entire world.

Don’t fall into the Korean trap of pretending like this is of international importance. It’s not, and no one in the real world cares what Shimane prefecture politicians yell and scream about. Not even the people of the Shimane prefecture.

“Again with the bogus International Court crap. The International Court has no way to enforce their rulings. It is foolish to think that either side would abide by the decision of the court.”

If both sides submit to the authority of the court and agree to abide by the decision, it’s not foolish. We’re not talking about a one-sided Japanese suit here.

“Japan is being more and more proactive not only when it comes to DokDo, but with islands they are in dispute with Russia about as well. Saying it is a few misguided minor politicians or radicals is ridiculous, it is coming from the highest levels of the Japanese government.”

And by proactive you mean yelling louder and louder. Who cares? If you’re foolish enough to think that stamps and Takeshima Day will translate into an invasion, then your paranoia makes you worse than the Koreans on this issue. It’s no longer 1910, in case you hadn’t noticed.

“In case someone here doesn??t know about the dispute with Russia, Japan??s parliament unanimously passed a resolution calling for a peace treaty deciding the fate of disputed territories in the North. This is fine except for the fact that they all of a sudden to add additional land to the dispute!”

Once again, they can pass resolutions till the Kobe cows come home, and that doesn’t mean squat in practical terms.

Are you really frightened by stamps and resolutions? If you are, and the Koreans are, it’s your own damn fault.

Japan is not going to take any action that would jeopardize their “peaceful nation” status or risk starting a war with either Russia or Korea. Can you accept that simple fact? Once you do, your entire argument falls to pieces. And if you don’t, you’re not informed enough about Japan’s intentions to be taken seriously.