UPDATE VII:
The Party Pooper offers his own appraisal of English Spectrum-Gate.
UPDATE VI:
CBS is now reporting that there is considerable concern that the online fury may lead to offline violence directed at [primarily male] foreign teachers. Personally, I wouldn’t worry that much, as a lot of this seems like Netizens blowing off steam, but you never know with things like this, especially if there are confrontations and stupid things get said. Anyway, foreign males would be cautioned to be on their best behavior — especially if they are with an Asian women — for the time being, especially because some of the online forums are calling for people to gather in places frequented by barbarians in order to give “insolent foreigners” a hard time. I doubt many will actually do so, but still, CBS warns me, and now I warn you. Personally, I think this is a non-story (although, as the Oranckay pointed out, a fine example of Internet psychology), but I’d prefer it to be a non-story that passes without incident.
BTW, just so I can make my feeling clear on this, I would really hate for people reading this to come away with the impression that Koreans are jackasses. They are not. Just as the outrageous posts that ignited this issue are hardly representative of foreigners in Korea, one should not judge this country by the reckless behavior of certain segments of the Korean Netizen community.
UPDATE V:
CBS is now on the story. In particular, it focuses on the shock and outrage directed at the “how to molest your students” post (which now has been taken down) over at Korean ESL . Being a relatively responsible news agency, however, CBS did say that some Netizens are pointing out that well-meaning foreign teachers shouldn’t suffer because of this. I don’t believe many of the people posting on this are actually saying that, but it was nice of CBS to think so.
BTW, wasn’t Korean ESL formed basically by a bunch of guys who got kicked off the forums of Dave’s ESL Cafe? Please correct me if I am mistaken. If so, you’d hope that one of the news agencies covering this story might make a mention of it, as it would be a real shame for such a post on such a site to be taken in some quarters as representative of foreign English teachers in Korea. Much of the criticism being leveled at the industry is justified, of course, but there is a huge difference in saying that many (if not most) English teachers are unqualified (which is probably true) and saying that many English teachers like to screw their underaged students, which I think some of the reports might unintentionally (I’d hope) lead some readers to believe.
UPDATE IV:
Hey, even Dog Stew is talking about this!
UPDATE III:
The aftershocks of English Spectrum-Gate may now be moving offline, according to the whores at Dailian (then again, as a blogger, I guess I don’t have the right to call anyone a whore). Korean Netizens are now demanding that the “foreign English teachers who degraded Korean women” be punished, and are planning to hold demonstrations and take legal measures to ensure that justice is done.
The Korean portal site Daum has also started a petition signing campaign to expel “low-quality foreign teachers.” They’re looking for 10,000 signatures, and they’ve got about 3,931. The campaign is also recruiting a “[Counter-] Yankee Strike Force.” They say the use of violence is prohibited, but they’d like to get together and hold a protest demonstration. There targets are 1) the “Yankee bastards” who put up the instructions on how to molest female students, and their accomplices; 2) the “Yankee bastards” who threw the wild party in Hongik; 3) the club owner; 4) institute owners who hire ex-cons or under-qualified teachers; 5) as a “bonus,” drunk GIs who might be in the Shinchon area starting fights with local citizens. Membership is open to all Korean nationals (no kyopos allowed, apparently — perhaps the organizers read this) with “wholesome thoughts (more like worldview).” They’ll meet at 6:00 p.m. Saturday near the front gate of Hongik. Be there… or be square.
The BBS of the signature campaign is full of condemnation for under-qualified foreign teachers, with things (selected by Dailian) like “The issue of low-quality foreign teachers has been a problem for a long time,” and, “It’s now the time to worry about the problem of substandard ‘foreign’ teachers in terms of society.”
Another angry Netizen called for strengthened immigration inspections, with under-qualified teachers being booked and fined and legal measures taken against their employers.
The (mostly) boys over at Anti-English Spectrum are trying to take legal action against the foreigners who wrote the offensive post over at English Spectrum and the Hongdae club where the infamous party took place. They already tried to hand a complaint to Ilsan Police Station (which was returned for lack of evidence), and are now in the process of collecting additional materials. They are also planning signature campaigns and street-side demonstrations to expel unqualified foreign teachers and — get a load of this — making plans to turn this into a social issue to “set straight our twisted club culture and correct foreigners’ biases about Korean women.” The funny part about that is that if you actually read what they have to say about Korean women in their forum, well, let’s just say much of it is less than flattering or empowering. Definitely not the kind of stuff that will correct any biases or stereotypes.
Anyway, the Hongik club where this all took place isn’t taking things laying down. The owner of the establishment is considering legal action against Anti-English Forum, presumably for defamation, and claims that the party in question wasn’t as depraved as the Internet photos would suggest. And besides, he said, those kinds of things happen in the Hongik clubs all the time.
You know, if I were a GI, I might be enjoying this all. God knows I’ve heard and read enough bitching from English teachers about how the military types make them look bad. Well, 8th Army personnel, here’s your chance for a little payback. Next time you see an English teacher, tell him you were thinking of growing your hair long, but you didn’t want Koreans to confuse you for being a hagwon instructor.
UPDATE II:
My Daily is now reporting that two of the girls involved in the “Ask the Playboy” party are pissed. They complained:
“The pictures don’t make up the whole party. Some media and Netizens are looking at the photos and making us out to be prostitutes. It’s unfair that people are criticizing us without knowing what happened before and after during the party.”
“After those photos went around the Internet, I couldn’t go to work. I haven’t show up for work for the last two days because I was afraid my coworkers may have seen them. I’m afraid my parents may have seen them.”
The girls claim that the party they attended was not a “sex party,” as many on the Internet are suggesting, and are complaining that they’ve been unable to live their lives since the photos were released without having their faces blotted out, despite the fact that the girls are ordinary citizens. On Friday, they asked the police’s cyber crimes division to investigate some of the media and websites that distributed the photos.
One of the girls complained:
“Shouldn’t the media at least ask those in the photos about the circumstances in which the photos were taken? Netizens are just looking at the photos and the critical posts and using them as grounds to condemn us.”
She added:
The essence of this incident was the controversy over the abusive things said by the foreign teachers, but the criticism has now turned to the girls who were in the photos, and about this, we are planning to respond by getting a lawyer.”
The girls said that rashly distributing photos of ordinary people on the Internet can be quite harmful to those involved in terms of defamation of character and violation of the right to their own likeness. They also expressed hope that no more people involved would suffer as a result of the distribution of the photos.
Oh, and the Hankyoreh’s BBS has some of the problematic material up for those who want to know why everyone’s so pissed. Enjoy.
UPDATE I:
Man, and you wonder why we have the reputation we have sometimes.
Original post here. Sick, but I gather from the header that it was meant to test the limits of the BBS’s moderators rather than a serious post on how to molest little children. But then again, I don’t read these sites, so how the hell should I know.
Now on to our regularly scheduled program…
ORIGINAL POST:
English Spectrum-Gate still smolders, with Netizens expressing shock and anger at photos taken from a forum party that featured big-nosed, hairy Western barbarians and young Korean women engaging in serious nonsense.
An anti-English Spectrum website over at Naver revealed the name of the Hongik club (and its website) where English Spectrum’s “Ask the Playboy” forum held a party that featured wet T-shirt contents (see photo gallery). Or to put it the way “Ask the Playboy” did (which got posted on DC Inside):
Party humpers,
Just so there’s no confusion…English Spectrum and I will be hosting two parties at Mary Jane’s in Hongdae on BOTH the 14th (Friday night) and the 15th (Saturday night).
Each party will be slightly different. On the 14th, it will be much the same as the last two; meaning some sex in the female bathroom, some late night dance floor grinding and partial nudity, mixed in with the addition of some clothes-allergic professionals who should be making a guest appearance that night.
On the 15th, we will be holding an MC’ed Sexy Game Night. We will be selling drinks at an exceptionally low price from 9-12 to get everyone hammered prior to the games. From 12 to about 4 am, we’ll play a bunch of team-oriented, guy-girl-guy-girl games, each for small prizes. This will be mixed in with a fair amount of dancing (hip hop and otherwise) intermissions.
Both nights will be fun, but a little bit different. If you can make one or the other or both, please come and join the fun. The 15th will be a good time to meet new people and develop some interesting relationships.
The Playboy
The administrators of English forum have put up an explanation that says (the Korean version, anyway), “We regret that several indiscreet users made bad posts that had nothing to do with our intention… We’ve erased the relevant bulletin boards.” Of course, when you make an “Ask the Playboy” forum and have your own T-shirts printed, this explanation is less than convincing.
The Mary Jane Bar, however, was slightly less than apologetic. “Are women all foreigners’ whores if they dance with Westerners? This is a nonsensical affair born of cultural ignorance and extreme nationalism.” This just got the Netizen community even more pissed.
About the photos, one Netizen said he was “Rightly shocked.” He angrily condemned “Korean college girls who sell their bodies to learn English.”
Nice set on the one in the middle. Anyway, a commenter over at the Anti-English Spectrum cafe wrote, “The photos seemed like some sort of sex party… Not all Korean women are like that, but since women who will become the mothers of Korea are like that, things are bleak.” He also said, “I’m frustrated because Korea doesn’t have a future without good wives and wise mothers (Korean: hyeonmu yangcheo).
Another commenter said, “I don’t know if they are college girls, office girls or some other sort, but the English you learn from selling your body is body language, not real English… Looking at the pictures, it seems like they were on drugs.” He added, “I think we should find and reveal the identities of the site’s administrators and shame them.”
Now, if I might be permitted to make a comment or two, as I think I’ve earned that right having just spent the last hour or so going through all the mindless shit that’s being posted on this incredibly lame story (which is, nonetheless, the No. 3 most looked at story over at Naver), I find it extremely ironic that the Joongang Ilbo (and it ran another piece on it today) should get itself so bent out of shape about someone degrading Korean women. The Joongang Ilbo-owned Ilgan Sports, after all, runs its own adult-content section. Heck, most of the risque pics that often grace this blog — such as this one over at Yahoo! Korea (currently No. 5) — come straight from Korea’s tabloid press via major Internet portal sites. If you think the buttheads over at English Spectrum degrade Korean women, they are nothing compared to the Korean media, which regularly depicts women as sexual playthings. I’m not going to get myself tied up in a knot over this, as like any heterosexual male, I enjoy seeing attractive women in advanced states of undress, and I find posting tabloid crap much more rewarding than posting about North Korea. But if the Joongang Ilbo — currently the largest online newspaper in Korea (Chosun still leads in hardcopy, though 
) — wants to defend the honor of Korean womanhood against the degradations of barbarian men, it first needs to ask itself what role it has played in fetishizing its own women. And the same goes for many of the Netizens so full of rage about photos and commentary that differ little from similar material you can read in Korean elsewhere. Heck, read through some of the online comments being made. If the original forum and photos represent white male neocolonialism at its ugliest, some of the male Netizen responses represent little more than tribal patriarchy. Like I said, having suffered the indignity of surfing through some of this shit, I’ll allow myself that comment. Anyway, I’m curious as to what women’s groups would have to say about this fiasco, because so far, the online dialogue (if you could call it that) seems primarily male.
43 Comments
Well rosscoe, do they have guests coming on line and trumpet how many K-girls they scored in the last year and all the disparaging remarks about the locals with it, because I don’t know and I’ve never seen HBO. I think what makes the Koreans get more angrier when they read some of those god awful stereotype and racist posts against the locals that went on in that forum (which frankly am glad they decided to clean up). The fact that the website keepers were the ones inciting it by making the “playboy” the columnist, also made this into a broo ha ha. It’s simply bad business to insult your customers when they’re the ones paying for you ads.
I’ve been here about 4 years, working as a U.S. Patent Agent drafting claims for a Korean I.P. firm currently. The changes since this came out are noticeable. On the subway, twice, younger males have come up and started talking about the story. One I ignored, but another I confronted in Korean, correcting him when he started saying some particularly nasty things about me, including that I was an uneducated idiot-teacher. When I corrected him he was marginally apologetic and seemed a bit embarassed for being racist/stereotyping. Although the waving, then “Hi~~”, then tittering thing happens on the street with minimal frequency (maybe once a week), it has happened every day since this story came out. I’m just trying to keep my head down and be a good guest in this country. Why is this happening? I’m not the guy on the website, I don’t want to be treated like it. I’m so ashamed now, and angry at the same time. Sure the website was stupid junk, but it’s just a website, there’s no telling who was posting there, and you can’t use websites like that as “evidence” of anything. How can they put that in the newspaper? There are probably hundreds of “black on blonde” DVDs and porn sites in the U.S. and no one pays it a second thought (except maybe some zealot, bible-belt nutbag)…
I know Kromozone. It sucks to be unfairly stereotyped because of some losers (posters at ES, ES, “Anti-ES”, and Joongang Ilbo which printed the story when it shouldn’t have). I feel for you, hang in there buddy.
Unsentimental as Hanminjoke comes across to all 185 of us at this critical international emotional juncture, he maintains the right perspective. This kind of thing might be news in Iran or NORTH Korea.
For all their lapses in taste, the Playboys over at English Spectrum must be chuffed. Anyone can wittingly or unwittingly offend the K-Netizen-people and feminists. But the spectrum has got (flag-flying, thanks to Marmot’s new toy) American residents likening an obscure website to ABC Monday Night Football.
Such things will be non-stories in five or ten years. In fact, it may be due to the comparative openness of the Korean media these days that the story was reported at all. As for the “tribal patriarchy” on display by Netizens, well, people post all sorts of things in anonymous forums, don’t they?
Considering the story itself, I sort of doubt that the perceived double-standard really exists in this case. I think the reason this incident was so notable (for some) was mainly because it fell outside the normal contexts for this sort of activity. There are all sorts of means and venues for prostitution, as well as phone clubs and Web cafes for those seeking so-called amateurs. However, Large-scale nightclub debauches involving “regular” women aren’t too common. Having whities as instigators just makes in more exotic.
It may be that many Korean men regard Korean women as “playthings,” as one poster suggested, but they tend to act this out more in the standard venues, and mostly with paid service. If the issue is really centered entirely on the foreigners involved, why haven’t the gangs of Japanese businessmen on their brothel trowls gotten any press? Moreover, I remember the big blather about the “swapping” club a while back. That even got TV coverage, and the foreigners involved were few or none, as far as I recall.
To each his or her own, but if my sister or daughter came up to me and said “I’m dating this new guy. He teaches English at Pagoda.” I might not do anything, but I know I’d feel pretty grubby, and it wouldn’t be because of the guy’s race (likely the same as mine). And if I then saw video of a bunch of young women being groped by guys that look like Pagoda teachers, well…
Tony Dungy = one of the jackasses I mentioned. All the reputable commentators, reporters, and other coaches DISAGREED with Dungy and had no idea why he thought it was racist to show a black man and white woman together.
Why? He interjected race into the issue when there was absolutely no reason to. The reason Terrell Owens was in the skit and not a white player is because Terrell Owens is the best and most popular player on the Eagles. It had absolutely nothing to do with him being black, nor did the skit.
Idiots like Dungy that see the racist boogeyman everywhere are causing more damage than they realize, because crying wolf all the time degrades instances of actual racism (like European soccer fans routinely direct at black players), which this was clearly not.
Dungy was the exceptional reaction to that controversy, not the norm, and in fact other blacks criticized Dungy for making a racial issue where there was none.
Run home little willie, you haven’t a leg to stand on.
you seem more indignant at the reaction of koreans than you are with the actions of your fellow high class expats. tsk, tsk, tsk….
Dang man, if only it was OhmyNews or Hankyoreh that was so hot in pursuit of this non-story. Then it could be anti-Americanism.
These expressions of outrage must be from the same men who supported the recent crackdown on prostitution.
People should be able to do whatever they want, but being so brazen as to put the photos on the site is just stupid. The same reaction would happen here in the states, in japan, anywhere in europe, or back home in my native australia. Though much of the reaction may have to do with the men being foreigners, you can’t really expect people to be ok with them faulting it so bloody obviously.
slim, i tried to respond in the other section but something is wrong with the posting section:
‘i didn’t include race because there may have some black expats in the crowd…’ slim
intellectual dishonesty? you must have thought you were writing to someone in their twenties.
‘you’re bluejives and have been posting here for two years..’
nope. mr marmot would know the truth on that one with the isps and all. i’ve posted here for about a year. has bluejives been banned? if so, not fair since marmot doesn’t ban expats who write similar filth(word to bluejives) about koreans.
’some hidden psych problem…’
well, no, not hidden, i despise you expats even if you are black. i think the vast majority are low class guys from the gutters of western civilization. (would you like fries with that?) i have no problem admitting that. do you have a problem admitting you despise koreans en mass? i think you do. now, you know about the ‘chip on my shoulder’.
To quote the late great Deng Xiaoping, Nulji, “seek truth through facts”.
Marmot: “If the original forum and photos represent white male neocolonialism at its ugliest, some of the male Netizen responses represent little more than tribal patriarchy.”
Nulji “you seem more indignant at the reaction of koreans than you are with the actions of your fellow high class expats. tsk, tsk, tsk??”
>>>>The same reaction would happen here in the states, in japan, anywhere in europe, or back home in my native australia.
Yes Andrew, how correct you are. The New York Times would be all over a story of foreigners in America who posted nude pictures on a random website and bragged about how easy American girls are. In fact, we all know they would have to compete with the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, and USA Today for the front-page exclusive. This is obvious because leading American newspapers consider foreigner/American nudie pics on the web to be worthy of major coverage. I mean, just look at all the examples in the past few years.
No seriously, is your post some sort of experiment in trying to convince others that you’re functionally retahhhded?
Do you honestly believe that the press in any Western country would do anything but laugh at the prospect of giving coverage to such bullshit?
>>>Though much of the reaction may have to do with the men being foreigners, you can??t really expect people to be ok with them faulting it so bloody obviously.
“Much” of the reaction, eh? It’s the entire reaction. Korean men doing the exact same thing is not a story. In fact, it happens all the time, and it’s called Korean porn.
This entire “story” stems from the ownership mentality of Korean men over “their” god-given property.
Justifying it by claiming similar reactions in other countries (the only one you got right was Japan) shows that you know absolutely nothing about the countries you mentioned (including your own), and apparently are hardwired to make excuses for nationalistic Korean horseshit.
Nice work.
Christ hanminjoke, you are confused!
you said “Do you honestly believe that the press in any Western country would do anything but laugh at the prospect of giving coverage to such bullshit?”
I have seen even more ludicrous things with my own eyes! I have on several occassions during my time in the States seen on various news programmes on “freaky dancing” (kids dancing really close to eachother in clubs, the horror!), “porn filmed on the roads” (where some porn actors pretend to pick women up off the street, the moral outrage of it!), and many, many local stories about Russian and Japanese men taking advantage of American women by throwing money around and then leaving. Imagine if these men had taken pictures! And I live in Seattle, the blue-state capital of the US.
If anything, Americans are more uptight. Much more uptight. The biggest news story a month ago was that they showed Nicole Sheridan’s bare back during half time of football game.
Insulting people, calling them retarded, saying they don’t know anything about the places they live and have lived, doesn’t make your argument more correct. Saying that Korean men think Korean women are their property doesn’t make it so.
it just makes you a jackass.
All I know is this — I have to get out more. I have missed what appears to be some damn good wet t-shirt contests.
My bike club goes over there often for fun after club rides. I’ve never gone, but I’m in now.
“In fact, we all know they would have to compete with the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, and USA Today for the front-page exclusive.” - hanminjoke
“Hanminjoke” is confused. There were couple of short blobs in the Joongang Ilbo about that, which caused an internet sensation. It wasn’t all over the South Korean news headlines in the front pages, as he inacurately portrays and exaggerates.
Someone alluded to a teacher bedding 300 girls last year….
300 in a year is roughly 25 per month which is 6 girls a week.
bullshit
Well, steve, unless you’re wilt chamberlain, which I’m guess that fellow wasn’t…
I’d have to agree with Marmot. So far, the comments here at least, and the comments from Netizens, have been from hotheaded Korean or defensive foreign men. From the netizens: Some Korean women are being disgraced bc they’ll be our future mothers? And the postings here have been just as absurd, where a few have generalized that Korean women are just as at fault bc they’re easy and wear mini-skirts and deserve it for putting themselves out there for a quickie English lesson. We’re back to the old Madonna/whore paradigm.
I would like to know where I could find sites where Korean women’s opinions are heard. Actually, I’d like to really hear from a Korean woman who’s dating one of these Western English teacher, ah, studmuffins. What is it about them that gets you hot and bothered? Is it really for the English? Do you see yourself as the future mother of Korea? Do you realize that by wearing a miniskirt, you’re putting yourself out there?
I think the idiot was counting each sexual encounter as “a girl.” LOL
>>>many, many local stories about Russian and Japanese men taking advantage of American women by throwing money around and then leaving.
Who cares? These Korean women were not being “taken advantage of.” They were full, willing participants. How is the private behavior of consenting adults news? Who cares if it’s posted on a website, it’s not news. There are hundreds of thousands of assholes with websites that post their opinions and/or dirty pictures. That’s not news, dumbass!
The only reason this is a story is because it’s white guys and Korean women. That’s the entire story, and if you can’t see the difference, you’re an idiot.
>>>If anything, Americans are more uptight. Much more uptight.
You think this story has anything to do with Koreans or Americans being uptight? Mix in a clue.
Once again, if these men were Korean, this WOULD NOT BE A STORY. In fact, much worse goes on in dalanjujoms and rooms salons all over the country every day, and it’s not a story. Reason? Korean men ogling Korean women is business as usual. Foreign men ogling Korean women is.
>>>The biggest news story a month ago was that they showed Nicole Sheridan??s bare back during half time of football game.
Who cares? Irrelevant.
>>>Insulting people, calling them retarded, saying they don??t know anything about the places they live and have lived, doesn??t make your argument more correct.
No, but it does convey my opinion of someone that makes an asinine statement. Mission accomplished.
>>Saying that Korean men think Korean women are their property doesn??t make it so.
No, but observing the attitude for 8 years does. You’re obviously clueless about Korea and America, as well as their respective media.
Me saying it doesn’t make that true. Your ridiculous statements do.
“In fact, much worse goes on in dalanjujoms and rooms salons all over the country every day, and it??s not a story.” - hanminjoke
Uh… where did you hear that “much worse goes on in dalanjujoms and room salons?” Let me guess, you read it in the Korean news? Hmm.. let’s take your word for it and analyze your firm belief that Koreans don’t report on naughty houses. For instance, let’s take the example of the paper in question the Joogang Ilbo and gather all its headlines about Koreans involved in naughty behavior:
??One-sided?? sex trade news - 2004.11.14
“Ah, for sex as it was in the old days!” - 2004.11.10
“Outcry greets fines for sex purchasers” - 2004.11.04
” After escaping sex trade, prostitutes seek new start” - 2004.11.04
“Lawyer accused of bribes to judges, other officials”
- 2004.10.29
on and on and on…
What about Sexual abuses in Korea? Let’s look at the headlines.
“Severed finger protests man??s bail on appeal” - 2004.06.23
“Outrage sparked by serial rape case” - 2004.12.12
“Sensitivity for abuse victims” - 2004.09.17
Yeap, it looks like they never report on Koreans sexually misbehaving. Not.
hanminjoke,
If you’re living in the U.S., you’re probably living in your own dreamland, maybe disneyland. Hey bud, wake up and smell the coffee.
When Terrell Owens (Black) appeared with seminude Nicole Sheridan (White chicky) on the Monday Night Football, the ESPN, LA Times, and other major, mainstream media outlets were all over this piece.
Actually you’re sounding like a White, trash version of a typical Korean Netizen that you criticize so much about.
William
I think it’s all a matter of perspectives. Of course you’ll find idiots in every country. But there’s one thing different that make us in a clash of civilization competing for women.
Korean male pigs will enjoy their filthy slobberings all over women, as they discreetly degrade women in darkened private rooms and motels. The key word here is “discreet”.
Western male pigs on the other hand, put up websites and pictures of themselves degrading women, and call Koreans “kimchi land, easy money and easy pussy” and brag hey look we conquered your women, Korea.
Not too discreet, and not too smart, in a fiercely xenophobic and proud land where they are even severely hung up on restricting internet porn sites through jail times and fines.
You should try thinking, hanminjoke, instead of just running your mouth and insulting people.
In fact, much worse goes on in dalanjujoms and rooms salons all over the country every day, and it??s not a story.
You flatter me! I regret to say that I don’t get out to the room salons and dalanjujoms every day but thanks for thinking of me.
And I prefer to think of what goes on in there as much better than English Spectrum, not “much worse.”
the anti-english spectrum cafe? for real? great, let me get over there now and start diverting blame for all of korea’s social ills!
>>>where did you hear that ?橫much worse goes on in dalanjujoms and room salons??? Let me guess, you read it in the Korean news?
Nope. Saw it first hand. More times than I can count.
>>>What about Sexual abuses in Korea?
This is not abuse, Leslie. These are consenting adults. If this were abuse or rape, fine, no problem. It’s not. Your other examples are just as ridiculous, as they have nothing to do with the topic. This is not reporting on ‘naughty’ behavior, it’s reporting on foreigners, when in fact Koreans doing the exact same thing would not be a story. How many times do I have to repeat this before you comprendo?
>>>When Terrell Owens (Black) appeared with seminude Nicole Sheridan (White chicky) on the Monday Night Football, the ESPN, LA Times, and other major, mainstream media outlets were all over this piece.
They would’ve reported it the exact same way if it were Brett Favre with a semi-nude actress. No one but a couple jackasses even commented on the racial aspect of it, and they’re the same jackasses that see racial issues everywhere like the goddamn boogeyman. It became a story because of the nudity on network TV. Show me a similar story with the same level of coverage concerning nudity on the WEB and you may have a point. But there are none so you don’t have a point. Next.
>>>The key word here is ?橫discreet”.
The key word is “porn.” Are you saying that Korean porn sites are discreet?
>>in a fiercely xenophobic and proud land…
Exactly my point.
Xenophobia produced this story. Not journalism. Pretty obvious to anyone with knowledge of the Korean media.
I love how Korean men assume these women date Western men just to learn English. I know a very small % probably do it just to learn English but the other 90+% are doing it for their own reasons be it fun, curious about other guys, fed up with Korean guys or maybe just maybe they just like the guy for whatever reason and love/interest comes in all forms. These full grown women know exactly what they are doing and there is nothing wrong with it.
Amazing that if this stuff happened in a Korean night club with only Korean girls and Korean guys nothing bad would be thought about it.
Honestly, I don’t see what all the commotion is over thousands of girls who just recently lost their jobs and are just looking for ways to spend their new free time.
hanminjoke,
“They would??ve reported it the exact same way if it were Brett Favre with a semi-nude actress. No one but a couple jackasses even commented on the racial aspect of it, and they??re the same jackasses that see racial issues everywhere like the goddamn boogeyman. It became a story because of the nudity on network TV. Show me a similar story with the same level of coverage concerning nudity on the WEB and you may have a point. But there are none so you don??t have a point. Next.”
You’re an idiot! You’re calling all these reputable reporters, commentators, coaches “jackasses.” Jackass. You’re calling Tony Dungy, a Black head coach of the Indianopolis Colts, a “jackass.”
This had very little to do with “nudity.” Rather it had to do with a Black man skipping a major football game to be seduced by a White woman, and all the racial implications which went along with it. Why don’t you do some reseach and read what Tony Dungy and a few others had to say about this episode.
You know what, you’re pointless. Go back into your trailer park, idiot.
Quote(Leslie) “Not too discreet, and not too smart, in a fiercely xenophobic and proud land where they are even severely hung up on restricting internet porn sites through jail times and fines”
Umm … well what about the soft porn they show every night on the Catch On chanel on Skylife from 11pm ? (which is the old HBO - no wonder they changed the name) Much more revealing than anything that went on in this club I think.
For those of you who are not Americans, here is a short exerpt of an article about the Terrell Owens & Sheridan incident:
“Two days after the network aired the segment featuring Eagles star receiver Terrell Owens and actress Nicollette Sheridan, coaches and players were still talking about it.
Reaction ranged from amusement to anger. Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy found it racially offensive.
“To me that’s the first thing I thought of as an African-American,” Dungy said Wednesday. “I think it’s stereotypical in looking at the players and, on the heels of the Kobe Bryant incident, I think it’s very insensitive.
“I don’t think that they would have had Bill Parcells or Andy Reid or one of the owners involved in that,” he added, a reference to the coaches in the game.
ABC’s intro showed Sheridan wearing only a towel and provocatively asking Owens to skip the game for her as the two stood alone in a locker room. She drops the towel and jumps into Owens’ arms. Owens is black and Sheridan is white.
“If that’s what we have to do to get ratings, I’d rather not get them,” Dungy said. “I realize that ratings pays us in this league but, if that’s what we have to do, I’m willing to take a pay cut.”
The point is that, in every nationality, there are idiots like hanminjoke who are closet xenophobic racist, and aren’t willing to accept the reality; there are bad people everywhere.
Regarding the whole “discrete” thing… I would imagine for many of the people posting to English Spectrum, they assumed it was one small, insignificant Web site in the great ether of the Internet, so they be as stupid as they wanted without consequence. One of the quirks of the Internet is how everything is private as long as no one notices, then its public as hell.
Leslie - I understand where you are coming from, and agree that the posts on that web site were pretty stupid/lame. I mean I am not sure what these guys are trying to prove posting stuff like that. You wanna bonk whoever, whenever, whatever - fine, but whats the deal with showing how much of a man you are by bragging about it on some web board ? And as you know it doesn’t take much for the actions of a few to get blown out of proportion, get exagerated and (sometimes) totaly out of hand - then become embedded in Korean fokelore to be used to judge the rest of us living here But that pretty much goes for any minority group in any country I suppose.
However, my question was it seems strange that the netzeins get upset about some Korean women doing wet t-shirt competitions etc in a private club, when they can switch on the TV, and see lots of bonking, wobbly bits and other assorted (Korean) porn on a standard cable channel every night - and not even very late night at that.
Kromozone : As you know the subway is always an ‘interesting’ place for people watching. I found that the type of thing you experienced comes in waves - sometimes never any problems, then sometimes many times in a single week. I remember when I got to the stage in learning Korean when I started to understand all the conversation and (sometimes) insults flying about from people on the subway - then I bought an MP3 player and now remain blissfully unaware. If people start talking about this kind of stuff in your presence, pull out your daily copy of the Chosun (of course!) and watch their reactions - the silence will usually be instant. A few times I used to study my Hanja book on the long subway rides. It had a bright yellow cover, and used to make for some pretty strange looks and funny reactions.
>>>If the issue is really centered entirely on the foreigners involved, why haven??t the gangs of Japanese businessmen on their brothel trowls gotten any press?
You’re obviously not a regular Marmot reader. He had an article last month on this exact topic. They do get press, and it falls in the exact same category of “foreign devils fucking OUR women” that this does.
http://blog.marmot.cc/archives...../#comments
Ok, have you actually read the posts from playboy? After reading this, I think the Koreans might have reason to pissed off. here’s a tasteful sampling–
jhol$$ View 474
Title A million things I hate about K-girls
1. Ugly Korean chicks trying to score on the internet.
2. Bitches that look at me like I like them or something…usually I walk away laughing.
3. Every bitch here has the same style. ie. black stockings, plaid or black skirts, with those annoying suede boots
4. That stupid face they make..like their blowing up a ballon or something.
5. That stupid wide-eyed look they make when their taking a picture.
6. Schoolgirls that try to impress me with their shitty english on the train.
7. Rot breath on the hottest chick.
8. My date telling me, “Oh many foreigners like kimchi.”
9. Dramatic conversation…especially when they are asking for something.
10. Ajuma’s that think they look good.
11. Fat bitches that look at me.
12. Fat bitches that look at me and think that I am looking back.
13. Fat bitches that think I’m looking at them, and they joke and giggle with their fat friends.
14. Fat bitches.
15. Big bushes…someone need to teach these chicks how to shave.
16. Bitches dating dorky college fags because his dad has an Equuis and works for Hankook tires.
17. Any bitch in Kangnam….truley gold-digging whores out looking to marry the first rich adeshi they can find.
18. The chick I met at Slimelight that claims it was her first time…
19. Bitches that think they are black…wearing dreds and all that other ghetto shit.
20. Fuck all these ho”s!
for more–the url is really long. translated page–some gibberish in the beginning but then just scroll down.
http://translate.google.com/tr.....en%26lr%3D
CH — Yes, I have read through some of them. Nobody is defending what they wrote. But I’m sure you read through some of the Netizen responses on any number of sites, and I’m sure you’ll agree that a good number of them are just as stupid and offensive.
I’m calling pure bullshit on the update with the supposed teacher giving molestation instructions. Looks like the work of a Korean or kyopo with obvious intentions. Not only did “Lucky Guy” spell molest wrong (mollest), but why in hell would he provide a Korean translation (his post further down) of his own post?
The fact that the Korean media are reporting ANONYMOUS internet posts as fact and making tens of thousands of foreign teachers guilty by association says more about their agenda and complete lack of standards than it does anything else.
I’m surprised Marmot, that you’re giving that story even a shred of credibility with your update comment. Didn’t peg you for the gullible type.
Rosscoe:
“…it seems strange that the netzeins get upset about some Korean women doing wet t-shirt competitions etc in a private club, when they can switch on the TV, and see lots of bonking, wobbly bits and other assorted (Korean) porn on a standard cable channel every night - and not even very late night at that.”
someone’s opinion about english spectrum, before sensored
Hobbes14-03-2005, 13:59
Possibly a little update on this, as it was totally out of context when I first saw it.
When I first saw the page in question it looked nothing more then a wild night out at some club (least by western standards). So I took it more a culture clash then anything else.
However I got to watch some of the show last night that brought this and other things to light. It wasn’t just the website was the problem. You had…
- People with no/fake qualifications teaching English. One had a Phd in Law from Harvard which was made cheap in Tailand.
- Many with no work visa.
- Some English teaching was quite creative, one teacher calling his students “F’ing chinks”.
- Drug involvement, from usage, pushing to date rapes.
- Prostitution and child molesting.
- Prejudice against Koreans in regards to jobs. A white person is more likely to get a English teacher job then say a Canadian Korean who has the qualifications.
- Drug involvement, from usage, pushing to date rapes.
- Prostitution and child molesting.
- Prejudice against Koreans in regards to jobs. A white person is more likely to get a English teacher job then say a Canadian Korean who has the qualifications.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin.....17823.html
If someone as describing about ‘how to molest a child’, wouldn’t it needs to be investigated whether the person is a real threat? I currently live in Canada, someone who posts this kind would be in a big trouble. Why not in Korea?
Most Korean people including myself aren’t against foreigners for no reason.