Over at Coming Anarchy, Curzon posted some opinion poll data that appeared on Japanese TV that would seem to suggest a rather large gap exists in the ways Koreans and Japanese view one another. Gaps like this:
Most Japanese–56.1%–consider the Republic of Korea to be a partner, compared to fewer than one in four who consider it a rival. The figures switch when you ask South Koreans. Almost 63% consider Japan to be a rival, while just 29.2% see it as a partner.
There’s more, and you’d do well to look at it on your own, even if the usual caveats about opinion poll data apply.
On a slightly related note, the Chosun ran a review of Korean-Japanese relations on Dec. 31 which gives you a decent outline of the history of the bilateral relationship and some of the issues it faces in the years ahead.
39 Comments
Defense system will intercept only missiles targeting Japan
Monday, January 10, 2005 at 08:17 JST
TOKYO ?? Japan has decided to use its missile defense system solely to intercept ballistic missiles targeting Japan, not missiles that pass over Japan and target other countries including the United States, government sources said Saturday.
The government has decided to limit the scope of interception by the missile defense system, to be deployed in fiscal 2007, because intercepting missiles that are targeted at other countries would be construed as collective self-defense. (Kyodo News)
HATE is something what people must have in Korea.
One of my jobs as a freelance J-E translator is to do summaries of articles about regional news that appear in a local newspaper. Here’s one summary that appeared for January 4:
“The Nishi-Nippon Shimbun and the Busan Ilbo of South Korea conducted a joint survey of reader attitudes regarding Japanese–Korean relations and ways to improve them in the future. The Japanese newspaper surveyed people in the seven Kyushu prefectures. The survey shows that while 20.8% of the Japanese respondents think relations have improved substantially, only 5.8% of the Koreans agree. Combined with those who think relations have somewhat improved, the Japanese total was 71.2% compared to 50.4% in South Korea. In contrast, 18.6% of Japanese think relations have not improved very much, compared to 40.5% in South Korea. Roughly 60% of the respondents in both countries thought that increased tourism would lead to improved relations.”
Curzon had an interesting translation for one part of the poll. He translated the simple words “like and dislike” (which in some contexts can be love and hate) as “favorable” and “unfavorable”
Hey, who would of thought the Koreans would forget, the occupation by Japan and the hell they brought forth. Screw Japan.
Could whoever posted comment #1 please send or post the URL? This is fairly significant, but I can’t seem to find the story for the life of me.
Thank you.
Does anyone have any polls on how people in the Congo feel about Belgium, how Angola feels about Portugal, how Kuwait feels about (old) Iraq, how Native Americans feel about Euro-Americans, how Cambodia thinks about Vietnam, and so on and so forth? These would be interesting to know and I think they may more closely parallel the Japan-Korea relationship, in which one nation ruthlessly exploits the resources of another with little or no regard for the native inhabitants. I’m sure each former colonial power views its former colony as a “partner.”
BS has stipulated in the Yasukuni debate that most Japanese “don’t care” about the past. I believe this also contributes to the disparity in poll results, because it seems that the vast majority of Koreans actually do care. I worked with a retired ROK colonel last month on an exercise, and I mentioned the upcoming exercise in Japan. He told me to never refer to the country as simply, “Japan,” but rather, “F*@king Japan.” Also, my Korean wife constantly nags for a trip to Japan so that she can deface the country by littering, vandalizing, and swearing at Japanese people as her petty revenge (don’t ask, I’ve already fought the logic in this battle and lost).
You can also make some similar observations about the US and Canada. Although I don’t have a specific poll to back me up, most Americans I have known have either a “couldn’t care less, they’re just like us” view of Canada, or “I don’t mind them, as long as they stay up there (especially the French).” Most Canadians I’ve met, however, have a more resentful attitude towards the States, and get pretty upset when someone mistakenly refers to them as “American.” In fact, a large number of Kerry supporters have flocked to Canada so they can join the hate-fest (can’t wait to see how this affects the 2008 election).
It makes perfect sense that Japan would view Korea more as a partner and Korea views Japan more as a rival.
rich> “Hey, who would of thought the Koreans would forget, the occupation by Japan and the hell they brought forth. Screw Japan.”
Hmmm…Since the Japanese Imperial Empire that perpetrated those acts of aggression was decisively defeated and eradicated, it is remarkable that some would want to torture themselves by ressurecting its ghost.
Apparently some emotional satisfaction is found in wallowing in anguish but consider the detrimental effects of surrendering oneself to this perverse thrill.
Resentment and hate over long-past wrongs represents not only an enormous waste of opportunity and potential, but real emotional, intellectual and spiritual self-destruction.
If you choose to hate people because of an accident of birth, then you yourself are responsible for the hate you bring into your life.
However, consider the possibilities of an end to hate. The effort involved in evoking negativity about the past can instead be used constructively to improve the present and build a better future. The only thing that imprisons you in suffering is you yourself.
Kudos to Mizar5 for such a profound thought. Hate does corrupt the vessel that attempts to contain it.
Excellent post, Mizar5
Funny, the British colonized the US, and even burnt the capital (and the White House) in a later war, but the US and GB seem to get along OK. The Germans occupied large parts of France twice in the last century, with Hitler strutting in Paris, but they’re getting along fine now.
The only ones who can’t seem to get over it are the Koreans.
Mark–if your wife wants to come to Japan and litter and vandalize it, she can easily do so, but she will likely come to Japan with a boatload or planeload of Koreans coming to Japan to tour, spend money, or study at a university for a year. Korean students in Japanese universities now are like American students used to be in Europe.
Most of the ones I’ve met are well-adjusted and having a great time, BTW
“In fact, a large number of Kerry supporters have flocked to Canada so they can join the hate-fest..”
No they haven’t. There was a surge of inquiries at the website and embassies after the election by some hysterical types, but they got over it, or will soon.
“Hey, who would of thought the Koreans would forget, the occupation by Japan and the hell they brought forth. Screw Japan.
Comment by rich”
Koreans have forgotten the hell they brought into Vietnam huh?
Toi, can you elaborate when you say “hell they brought into Vietnam”??
The only hell that I know were the Vietnamese north and south, who created most of the hell for themselves.
Rich sez: “Screw Japan”
Uh, Rich, are you a Korean nursing a grudge? If not, what’s with you?
Korea-Vietnam, I marked this some time ago (2003):
By Nam-Doo Kim (Doctoral Student) University of Texas at Austin School of Journalism
- Abstract - South Korean weekly Hankyoreh21 ran an apology campaign after it uncovered the Korean army’s alleged civilian killings in the Vietnam War. This paper examines Korean netizens’ Vietnam War online debate during the campaign period. Through a two-level frame analysis, the researcher analyzes how a diverse of pros and cons over the apology campaign were linked to various applications of socio-political values and national identities. Furthermore, based on a literature review on ethnocentrism, I argue that the ethnocentric attitudes of the anti-campaign side can be explained by the concept of relative deprivation. Finally, this paper discusses how a humanitarian remedy of ethnocentrism could be effectively developed by taking advantage of, rather than by throwing out, cultural resources that are tied with national identities. …
Although part of the response was positive, there also emerged strongly
negative public sentiment. On June 27, 2000, as many as 2,400 Korean
veterans raided the Seoul office of Hankyoreh21, destroying the company’s
facilities. This event served as a moment to draw heavier attention to the
news weekly’s campaign activities. Markedly, as Internet access expanded in
the late 1990s, South Koreans concerned with the apology campaign were able
to use the technology to create spaces for public discussion…..
Yeah right. Look who printed the article:
Hankyoreh21,
which is the same left wing pinko paper that accuses the US military of widespread cold blooded killings during the Korean War. Hankyoreh makes Ohmynews look like a respectable journalism.
I don’t blame those Vietnam Vets who raided the Hankyoreh office in Seoul. They get enough shit as they do, on top of all the slanders that gets thrown in their way. Try reading this article from Ohmnygoodness paper and understand what I’m talking about.
http://english.ohmynews.com/Ar.....;back_url=
Yes, there were examples of bad apples, but overall, Korean vets in Vietnam did far more good then bad - which you never ever hear about. The worst perpetrators of atrocities were the North Vietnamese and the corrupt South Vietnamese. Then of course, you never hear about them doing stuff to their own people.
Kimbob
As far as I know the Koreans tried to find out about atrocities by themselfs. A Korean correspondent went to Vietnam. If there is truth or not I can not judge.
From Reuters news I read that the Vietnamese government didn`t want to make a big deal about it. No fact finding group etc.
I would like to know if Japanese journalists are as much eager to find out about history abroad.
Oh I’m flabbergasted by this news. How is it possible that Koreans wouldn’t love the Japanese?
Afterall, Koreans directly inherited Imperial Japan’s fascism(Park Chung Hee) while MacArthur dismantled the fascism in Japan.
Americans hate the British? Give me a break. Go to any countries that have been colonized and is currently in a crappy situation. America has no chips on it’s shoulder. (the superior comparison is what those Native Americans at Monumental Valley think about the whites or the native Hawaiians for that matter) If you think Koreans hate the Japanese, you guys haven’t seen the Chinese. The Vietnamese have no chips on their shoulders because they WON their war. They are winners! Koreans, most Africans except the Ethiopians, South Americans cannot say the same. It is a question of national confidence–a sort of paranoia fascism. This is why people in Africa believes that the CIA has bio-engineered the HIV virus to kill off all the blacks, and why Korea is obsessed everytime Japan leaps ahead in technological/industrial/economical sphere.
I personally think that the Japanese did a great favor by assassinating the Korean royalty, but I have almost nil sympathy for a government that has probably the worst PR department in the world.
Jens-Olaf, the woman who went to Vietnam to cover that story from Hankyoreh, was a left wing radical. She had her own left wing agenda - Jane Fonda of Korea. Of course, the Vietnamese government wouldn’t dare to make a big deal. They probably know they were the worst perpetrators. I’m not saying there were no atrocities committed by Koreans, but by no means were these wide spread (as reported by left wingers, and Communists in Vietnam themselves who liked to exaggerate the stories). And like I said, have not even read one word of how Korean troops helped the Vietnamese like helping them planting rice, building them buddhist temples, building ports and roads, and most of all, providing first rate security for the allies and their war effort. What’s shameful is the terrible ways these veterans who fought and brought prosperity to the country is being treated - treated as animals, insulted, ignored as war criminals.
as is usual, we see a simplistic interpretation of korean sentiment. you folks only looking at this on the basis of the japanese occupation but in fact, japan has historically meant nothing but trouble for the people of korea. though mizar5’s poetry was indeed seductive, it would be ridiculous for anyone to expect the koreans to simply forget the fact mentioned above.
Responding to comment #11,
I don’t know, BS…after all, they say, “where there’s smoke, there’s fire,” and if Canada manages to edge us out in the Olympic tsunami aid medal race, that might be more than the Bush-haters can handle.
Nulji has a point this time - clearly it’s IMPOSSIBLE for people alive today to forgive Japanese for Hideyoshi’s attempt at conquest in 1592.
That reminds me… I’ve got to break up with my 1/2-Italian girlfriend. I’m 1/8 French, and I’d always thought I could forgive her for Caesar defeating the Gauls in 58 B.C. and enslaving a million of Our People. Alas, I’m still seething.
What matters is the history you are talking about:
For example did you ever met young Japanese claiming that Indonesians were happy to be liberated by Japanese soldiers. (That was done as a rather naive statement, no aggressive intention, told like a plain historical fact, and additional there should be a monument in Indonesia commemorating this)
From where does this come from, textbooks, teaching, public media ?
“Jens-Olaf
As far as I know the Koreans tried to find out about atrocities by themselfs.”
That won’t be the indulgence of atrocitis committed by Koreans.
That’s what Koreans are always saying to Japanese.
Text book issue is same way.
Koreans demand Japanese to have leftist view of history while Koreans reject leftist view on their textbooks.
“A Korean textbook gets an ??F’
South Korea is viewed in a negative light while North Korea is introduced in a very friendly manner. This is not a very balanced approach.
A textbook educating a growing generation must be objective and neutral. It should not be too progressive nor conservative and it cannot force a certain viewpoint. Above all, controversial issues that are still being debated among history scholars should not be used in a textbook as a fact that has been proven. A textbook based on ideology can shake the identity of a country. Students that do not have their own historical view need to be taught history without ideology. “
Hi Deng,
You said, “Koreans reject leftist view on their textbooks.”
By “left” I assume the world definition of “left”, because Korean “left” is far more virulently anti-Japanese than the Korean “right” who has ties with Japan during colonization times.
In Korea, if you say something good about Japan, you are regarded as a chil-il-pah right-winger.
“For example did you ever met young Japanese claiming that Indonesians were happy to be liberated by Japanese soldiers…From where does this come from, textbooks, teaching, public media…”
The truth. The Indonesians were colonized by the Dutch at the time. People throughout Asia saw the Japanese as liberators (including a past president of the Philippines in those days).
The media has nothing to do with it.
What they don’t get is the second half of the truth–that once they found out that the Japanese were just as bad, they were no longer happy.
It happened in Europe, too. I’ve read accounts that some Ukranians originally welcomed the German army during WWII as liberators from Stalin.
Quote “People throughout Asia saw the Japanese as liberators (including a past president of the Philippines in those days)”
“Just as bad” - just as bad as what ?
Yeah, I suppose the people in Malaya and Singapore may have become ‘no longer happy’ with the Japanese ‘liberators’ after they locked them up in Changi. What were the Japanese ‘liberating’ PNG from exactly ? and perhaps the people of Darwin shouldn’t have mistook the bombs as an intention to invade, instead realised the Japanese were just trying to be helpful - doing some extra ‘land clearing’ from the air ?
‘nulji was prasing the japanese imperial army not too long ago…’ lankov
i had to think about this one, dr. you obviously remember it better than i do. interesting. in any event, i did not praise the japanese imperial army, i pointed out that they kicked your ass in less than two weeks and that you were the first europeans to be beaten by a non-european race. but do not worry, there would be others that would follow in your footsteps like the un being beaten by north korea. or, the vietnamese slamming first the french, and then uncle sam.
professor, you can make light your soul by the fact that you russians can associate your loss with the loss of truly great nations.
****
bs is typical expat in japan:
bs: you koreans and chinese need to shut up about the japanese, they don’t care about it and neither do i. don’t you know how goooood i got it here in japan, korea? man, i’m God here. and people are just sooooooo nice to me. that’s why i take the japanese side of things and care not of your beheadings. sorry.’
korea: ‘what do you think about the rampant discrimination against koreans and other ethnic minoritites in japan?’
bs: look, racism is not a problem for me here in japan. i never see but if there is racism towards them people, well, they do cause quite a bit of crime. did i tell you i’m God here?
korea: yes, that’s the second time. some advice: don’t go to korea; you’ll just be human there.
to virtual wonderer
?橫Leftist view??=??Self abusive??
The article describes
??South Korea is viewed in a negative?? is not acceptable.
That is why Korean troops?? atrocities in Vietnam has never been on the textbooks.
Koreans have tried to invade Japan with Mongol, their history textbooks describe it as ??Punishment?? instead of ??Invasion”.
Deng, now I will be the first to admit that Koreans need a lot more “leftist” as in “Self-abusive” introspection of their history. Afterall, a lot of Koreans really liked the Japanese–this being especially dependent on time frame.
And especially Koreans need to look objectively at their own faults in creating a weak Korea.
But I would hardly blame the Koreans for “eagerly” invading Japan. Do you know how many years Koreans resisted the Mongols? If the Mongol horde puts a sword on the back of your neck and tell you to row towards Japan, I wouldn’t say that you “eagerly” attacked Japan. You also have to remember that this was a time in Korea’s history where they looked at everything coming from Japan as being inferior and Japan not being worth invading.
In fact, the only time I know when Korea ever invaded Japan was sometime around 1411 or so when Tsushima pirates massacred Korean villagers. After landing and executing Japanese pirates, the Korean force LEFT Japan, because they thought Japan(Tsushima) was worthless.
That is unless you believe that the Japanese Emperor(Yayoi culture) is of Korean ancestry and colonized the natives. Which I somehow doubt.
Mark: Could whoever posted comment #1 please send or post the URL? This is fairly significant, but I can??t seem to find the story for the life of me.
Here.
BS: The truth. The Indonesians were colonized by the Dutch at the time. People throughout Asia saw the Japanese as liberators (including a past president of the Philippines in those days).
The media has nothing to do with it.
What they don??t get is the second half of the truth??that once they found out that the Japanese were just as bad, they were no longer happy.
Well, in truth, it wasn’t that the Japanese were as bad - they were far worse, perpetrating mass rapes and massacres wherever they went. The European colonial presence was relatively unobtrusive, compared to the Japanese, which required locals to bow in the presence of Japanese soldiers (or be beaten to pulp) and allowed Japanese soldiers to summarily execute locals without punishment. It was little details like this that led the locals to armed revolt, and towards summarily killing Japanese troops and mutilating their corpses upon their surrender. The ones who were tried for war crimes were the lucky ones.
Jens-Olaf: For example did you ever met young Japanese claiming that Indonesians were happy to be liberated by Japanese soldiers.
Some people from the Dutch East Indies were happy to see the Japanese, chiefly those who hoped to take over the Dutch empire in East Asia, such as the Javanese Muslim Suharto and Sukarno. Christian natives fought the Japanese tooth and nail, fearing that the erosion of Dutch rule would lead, not to the reversion to the independent kingdoms of the pre-Dutch era, but to the formation of a Muslim empire to rule their once independent lands. Ironically, formerly Christian kingdoms in what is now Indonesia have the Dutch (and the Japanese) to thank for their subjection to Muslim rule.
kimbob: The worst perpetrators of atrocities were the North Vietnamese and the corrupt South Vietnamese.
Actually, the worst perpetrators of atrocities were the North Vietnamese. Period. 5,000 dead at Hue alone, all summarily executed and buried in mass graves. The South Vietnamese government was corrupt, but probably no more so than the Korean government. The key difference? The North Koreans weren’t able to smuggle arms or men to their sympathizers in the South, meaning there was no guerrilla war of any significance.
Mark: Could whoever posted comment #1 please send or post the URL? This is fairly significant, but I can??t seem to find the story for the life of me.
Thank you.
This article points to the fact that our open-ended defense commitments to a good number of countries is relatively exceptional. Most countries are pretty parochial in their viewpoints, and it would behoove us to keep this in mind when deciding upon a course of action during future crises, especially if the potential cost of American involvement is high.
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[...] i Doyoubi (Wakeup Saturday), a look at what five countries in Asia think of Japan. As always, the usual caveats about opinion polls apply [...]
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