I’m speechless:
Unification Minister Chung Dong-young declared Tuesday that Seoul will stop allowing large groups of North Korean defectors to enter South Korea, saying that government has no desire to undermine the communist country’s leadership.
“The North’s perception that we are trying to shake the Pyongyang regime by bringing defectors to Seoul is quite different from our policy,” Chung said during an MBC radio interview. “We disapprove of the mass defections. There will be no more large-scale arrivals of defectors in Seoul.”
The remarks drew condemnation from civic groups involved in helping North Koreans flee their communist homeland.
Chung’s statement came in the wake of the ministry’s announcement late last month of measures to tighten the screening of defectors seeking asylum at South Korea’s foreign missions. The government also strengthened the monitoring of brokers _ activists who guide defectors in return for commission _ and reduced settlement subsidies for North Koreans arriving in the South.
“We consider the policy of competing with Pyongyang for supremacy between our social systems has already been made redundant,” Chung said.
You know, that last bit could have meant, “Since it’s already clear that the South’s system is superior, there is no longer any need to compete.” I’ve read former Uri Party chairman Lee Bu-young make a comment along those lines. I have to wonder, however, if that’s what Chung meant here. My guess is, probably not. And to think I thought no one could be worse former Unification Minister Jeong Se-hyun.
Anyway, with attitudes being what they are at the top, should we really be surprised at stories like this in the NYT (hat tip to GI Korea):
The Russian woman in the cafe was in tears, her tea cooling, her potato salad untouched. She had just endured an hourlong interrogation by a South Korean investigator about her role in sheltering a North Korean defector.
“I had no idea they could talk like that to a Russian citizen,” said the woman, who asked only to be identified by her first name, Katia, the gold cross on her sweater flashing as she trembled from her ordeal at the South Korean Consulate here.
In a new twist, diplomats from South Korea now work to discourage defectors from North Korea.
Read the story on your own. To be fair to Seoul, it’s not just the South Korean consulate in Vladivostok giving defectors a hard time — seems like North Korean agents and Russian skinheads are giving them all they can handle as well. Still, I don’t know quite what to say reading something like this:
Fear of discovery prompted Mr. Hwang [a defector] to have a friend ask South Korean officials about asylum.
“The South Koreans received a direct order not to take care of this issue any more,” Mr. Hwang said in a telephone interview in early November. “After I heard this, I was in shock. They did not offer any help, nothing monetary, no advice.”
On Nov. 15, though, he gambled and sought asylum at the South Korean Consulate here. When he asked for help, he carried a cellphone, surreptitiously keeping a line open to Mr. Shin, who recorded the encounter. On the tape, Mr. Hwang can be heard arguing that South Korea’s Constitution guarantees North Koreans the right to asylum. A consulate official can be heard responding with curses.
When consular officials realized that the exchange had been taped for possible broadcast on South Korean radio, they relented and allowed him to stay, Mr. Shin said. He was finally allowed to fly to Seoul on Dec. 18.
History will be the judge.
36 Comments
I would have to agree, in that this action leaves me just speechless, and discussing the subject, which seems and extension of government policy that has been stated in the past few weeks with ‘average’ Koreans leaves the impression most are pretty disgusted or at the very least embarassed by the governments actions. I wonder if there will be a ground swell of public opposition, and a backlash against this stance, forcing a backdown ? I can only hope so.
But, I agree with Mark - IMHO I think there is a fear at the top end of both government and big business here that too many defectors will undermine the status quo, and a NK collapse is not something they want to deal with.
BTW Mark, I am not sure what the connection is between the change in romanisation of place names and anything else - it’s just writing them the way they should have been in the first place.
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>Polls now show that most South Koreans don?€™t want
>the Northerners here. They resent their government
>subsidies and discriminate against them in
>employment.
Absolutely correct. The MoU position will be castigated for decades, and perhaps will damage the reputation of the Korean Left for a generation or two. But they are doing what their voters want them to to do. Like it or not (I do not). The SK middle class does not want to spend a cent on defectors. They talk of ?€?wave?€™ of defectors even if actual numbers are still small - less than 2,000 a year. FYI, in Germany they had 22,000 defections on the averge year between 1961 and 1989. And the middle class?€™ worst worry is unification with these ?€œstingy, dirty, unkept, violent?€? Notherners. In a democratic sciety, politicians are elected to follow the will of the voters, so Blue House and MoU are simply doing their job.
> Are Koreans today still really one people? I don?€™t
> know.
I believe I know. Not. Not one people. At the time of writing, that is, in January 2005. They used to be one people. They will almost definitely become one people once again. But not now.
NK Defectors No Longer Welcome in South Korea
Via the Marmot, a story very nearly incomprehensible to us: Unification Minister Chung Dong-young declared Tuesday that Seoul will stop allowing large groups of North Korean defectors to enter South Korea, saying that government has no desire to underm…
Allowing mass Defectors into SK does affect the North at all. All it does is eliminate a few extra mouths to feed from the system, and gives them a slight damage in pride.
South Korea is possibly doing what is your own best interest by this, because now they will not be a burden on the rest of the society. Unfortunate, but true. They can’t work meaningful jobs, or provide the same level of contribution as SK Citizen.
That’s just life. You can’t let everyone who is poor into your country and use that as a justification, otherwise Seoul should invite all the people from Sri Lanka and Ethiopia here as well (provided that didn’t scare most of the populace).
Their time will come. They must wait for it, just like everyone else in history has had to. Standing on the shoulders of Giants gets you no where, if you are unable to stand in the same place, should the giant leave.
They are no doubt smiling up in Pyongyang, and prison guards are probably playing that Consulate tape to demoralized prisoners the way the North Vietnamese used to play John Kerry and Jane Fonda footage to American POWs.
How can any of us be surprised when a North Korean operative follow the orders of the Worker’s Party? Ministry of Unification indeed. I wonder when No Moo Hyun will establish the Ministry of Truth and the Ministry of Love. I guess the rate No Moo Hyun is going, South Korea really is meeting “half-way” towards North Korea.
RE: “Anyway, with attitudes being what they are at the top, should we really be surprised at stories like this in the NYT.”
Sorta my thoughts about the Abu Ghraib prison affair.
It’s official, Roh’s diploma as the “human rights lawyer” is nothing but a toilet paper which was written on. Someday, many many South Koreans will have to answer to god.
A little bit extraneous to the topic at hand, but I just noticed one particular blurb in the article you posted. Do so-called South Korean human rights activists who bring North Koreans to the south get paid a commission? On the grand scheme of things they are probably doing good, but this certainly blights their altruism somewhat. Technically if they are being paid for it, wouldn’t this make north Korean allegations of human smuggling in fact correct?
?€œWe consider the policy of competing with Pyongyang for supremacy between our social systems has already been made redundant,?€? -Chung
My hate-on is starting to get personal for this guy.
I just retruned from the north of China, and while I did not meet any N Korean begging to be brought back South I was privy to the raw amoutn of poverty there. AND THAT WAS ON THE CHINESE SIDE!!?? If they are fleeing something to work in China… I don’t want to imagine.
If the MoU wants to crack down on ppl traficking, I suggest it set up its own institutions in the area aiding KOREAN CITIZENS in their plight to return to their home country for FREE.
“Human Rights. We don’t need no stinkin Human Rights.” President Roh- Human Rights Lawyer.
This change in stance toward defections has been marinating in my mind for a couple of weeks now. I think it’s cooked and ready to serve:
The entire situation is another example of how everyone loves to think outwardly that the US is the only reason that Korea remains divided, whereas in fact it is the ROK government who perpetuates the ongoing war.
The Russian woman was not actually interrogated; she was “cured” of her oldthink, in which she thought that the ROK would encourage defections from nK.
You have to look at the newspeak that is spreading in the ROK to see the forest through the trees. For example, Pusan has changed to Busan. Kwangju to Gwangju. Taegu to Daegu. Tongducheon to Dongducheon. SOFA license plates no longer have the single digit with hyphen in front of the numbers.
I hate to make things sound like a slippery-slope, but I think someday Korea will be Corea, and the Korean War will be deleted from history books here and Japan will once again be the enemy instead of nK.
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength. When Mr. Chung says that the ROK cannot let too many defectors in because it might undermine the nK government, he also means that it might undermine the ROK government, because the two are part of the same machine. Sorry to rain on anyone’s parade, but the ROK and DPRK will remain separate even after “Yankee Goh Home” is complete.
What do you think? Am I guilty of thoughtcrime? That would be doubleplusungood.
Without getting into armchair psychology too much, it’s interesting that Chung, who found out in 1970 that he had three older brothers killed by N.K. guerillas during the war (and they were 1-4 years old)would be so adamant about preserving the Nork dictatorship. A lot of people I know would like to understand his rationale.
I read this in this morning’s Herald and almost choked on my cornflakes. In my opinion, its the moral equivalent of turning away boatloads of Jews during WW2. And the peice where North Korea claimed the South had kidnapped the 400-odd defectors just tickled me pink. How can they say that with a straight face?
Polls now show that most South Koreans don’t want the Northerners here. They resent their government subsidies and discriminate against them in employment. While deplorable and caving in to the North, the government is also responding to public opinion in the South. Are Koreans today still really one people? I don’t know.
Bluejeans
That?€™s just life. You can?€™t let everyone who is poor into your country and use that as a justification…
You can when they are citizens of the Republic of Korea.
“Dead on arrival.” What a totally appropriate description for your cynical shirking of responsibility on behalf of South Korea.
That?€™s just life. You can?€™t let everyone who is poor into your country and use that as a justification…
You can when they are citizens of the Republic of Korea.
From my perspective the most disappointing thing about the Roh Moo-Hyun clique is its attitude toward the laws of the Republic of Korea — namely, Roh doesn’t give a damn about the laws. It’s obvious that he prefers a “natural justice” theory of jurisprudence where his government will do what’s “right” (as they define it) rather than follow the laws as they are written.
“Loopholes in the tax law allow chaebol owners to pass inheritances to their children? No matter what the law says, we’re going to tax them out of existence anyway.
“I’ve never heard of a customary constitution, but never mind, I’m going to move all the ministries to Kongju anyway.
“Citizens of the Republic of Korea want help escaping the North? Fuck ‘em — it upsets the status quo and makes the Dear Leader unhappy with me.”
If the law is wrong (i.e., you think it’s a mistake that the Constitution extends ROK jurisdiction over the entire peninsula and declares the North’s residents to be citizens of the ROK), then mobilize political capital and get the law changed.
I can only thank God that this Chung Dong-Young will never be president; such a gross lack of a moral compass puts him on par with Roh Dae-Woo and the like. Regardless of the complications, sometimes right is right and wrong is wrong.
Who says this guy will never be president? And who says this isn’t the will of the current president?
This is OT, but does anyone know what happened to the Gweilo?
Let me add my complete disgust at what is happening in Korea. My wife and I have long talked about the lack of a charitable attitude in Korea, me, my immediate family and screw everyone else. Truly saddening.
The day Chung becomes president is the day before I leave this country.
Also I have given thought to this quote ?€œWe consider the policy of competing with Pyongyang for supremacy between our social systems has already been made redundant,?€? -Chung
At first he seems to be stating that it is obvious the south has won the battle. But after looking at his policies I tend to wonder if he meant that the competition for supremacy was mute because they (the current administration) has now pre-determined to push the South into the hands of the north. I have long been a suspect of Noh and his left leaning policies. I know his comes off as just “comie-pointing” and I don’t want it to be dismissed as simply that. I sincerely wonder if the admin really believes in a free market, western leaning republic.
As well, Bluejeans and others have mentioned polls “showing” that south koreans are against mass defections. I ask anyone quoting those polls to look at the sources. Most of the ones I see are easily tracked back to biased origins (ie. MoU).
I thought last year’s impeachment of Roh was stupid, but now I wish it would have stuck. There has never been any evidence that unilaterally giving North Korea concessions is matched by similar steps from Pyongyang. Now that they’ve given North Korea veto power over essential South Korean decisions, expect Pyongyang to pocket that and demand more: Close the Chosun, legalise Hanchongryun, scrap the NSL wholesale, appoint cringing pro-Norkies in your cabinet….. WAIT! Roh’s government is already TRYING to do all that.
Brendon Carr,
Most enlightening post. Korea’s biggest problem seems that there has always been a gigantic chasm between what is written and what is practiced. Disappointing that a lawyer like No would continue this tradition.
For your reading pleasure, the text of that MBC interview with Chung.
A few choice quotes:
‘????¶???? ??¸??œ??¼ ??°??? ????¶€?°€ ??¸?????? ?°¨????????œ ?·¸??™??? ?‰ ?²??????´?™”?³???”. ????œ¼?¡œ??? ?³€??¨??´ ??†??? ?²???…?????¤.’ Our govt has dealt with the defector issue on humanitarian grounds and will continue to do so in the future.
‘????¶€?¡œ??œ??” ?¸°???????¶???? ?°??Œ€??œ??¤ ?????” ??…?????? ?¶??ª…??? ?°???”?³? ??´?²???€ ????²Œ ?³´??´ ????¶???? ??¸??œ??¼ ?°€?§€?³? ??? ??¤??¸ ??¸??œ??¼ ?°€?§€?³? ?¶???œ??? ?²´??œ??¼ ??”?“¤ ????°???´ ??†??¤.’ The govt has made it clear it will oppose orchestrated [note it does not say "mass," as he is quoted in the HT] defections, and what that means in the larger picture of things is that we have no intention of taking the defector issue or any other issue and using it to shake the North’s government.
He does say there will be no mass arrivals of defectors. (’????¶?????“¤??´ ?Œ€?±° ??´?†¡?????” ??¼??€ ??†??? ?²??????¤.’)
I do think the SK govt is to be credited with not abusing defectors as pawns to be manipulated in destabilizing NK. If there are no mass arrivals and they’re made to arrive in small numbers and that makes a summit possible, then good for them. I do think the increasing frequency of strange statements about NK means we’re getting close to seeing another summit. I just hope it’s worth it this time around.
Oranckay,
I’m curious why you think that preventing mass arrivals to make a summit possible constitutes a good thing. From what I can tell, the previous summits didn’t really accomplish much, other than facilitating the flow of capital to the North.
Not trying to be sarcastic - I’m genuinely curious.
Orankay,
But how do you define a “mass” defection? A group of 10 people or more? There is economy of scale in forming a “mass” of refugees before going to Korea. In fact, the internet is inundated with news about how one or two asylum seekers are turned away by the Korean embassy(SK). It is only when there is a sufficient critical “mass” that the event becomes news worthy, and the Korean government(SK) is forced to act.
If the SK government refuses to provide pension for NK refugees, this I can understand. If they refuse to pay for transportation costs or humanitarian relief costs, this too, I can understand. But what becomes immoral, unconstitutional, and utterly anti-korean, is when korean citizens enter a Korean embassy (SK) and the president gives strict orders not to give them any service due a citizen. South Korea is already creating a two class citizenry–one for those born in the South and the other born in the North. Seeing how this is going, I guess I have to agree that North should NEVER unify with the South. Obviuosly the South will dominate and exploit the North, and never give full citizenship rights to those who are born in the North.
I am afraid that all those Hanchongryun kids want to unify only so far as to make Korea “stronger” and generally more fascist country than to alleviate the sufferings of their compatriots.
As of now, South Korea is a flagrant violator of international standards for human rights and belongs in the same class as Cuba and Sudan.
R. Elgin> “…such a gross lack of a moral compass puts him on par with Roh Dae-Woo and the like. Regardless of the complications, sometimes right is right and wrong is wrong.”
It is not that Chung Dong-young lacks a moral compass, but rather that Westerners do not grasp the concept of “Korean morality”. You might recall the term “Korean democracy” that was used during the Yu-shin years of Park Chung Hee. Just as the military dictatorship was in fact democracy in the 70s, moral compasslessness is in fact Korean morality.
The crux of the misunderstanding is that, as a Westerner steeped in Greek philosophy, you equate morality with the greater good. Koreans, who are of a different philosophical orientation, instead equate morality with the lesser good. It’s simply a cultural difference.
The interests of the individual are considered paramount, followed by the interests of the family and the most proximate circle of friends. The interests of the community, nation and race are too abstract and remote to be seriously entertained in a real practical sense, although they are often discussed in an abstract sense.
We speak in vague philosophical terms about “one people” and “human rights” but practically, we only apply the concept of personal interest to our immediate selves and circles of acquaintances.
Let me offer you two concrete examples.
You may have noticed that we talk quite a lot about “family love” and this is something we genuinely feel on an emotional level. But practically, each marital partner must seek sexual satisfaction and affection outside the marriage.
We also talk about our kinship with the North, but this is a device to reaffirm our personal sense of racial superiority in contrast to Westerners of developed nations whom we fear are our superiors. Again, it is personal interest that prevails.
The probable reason that politicians like Chung want to work closely with North Korea is personal gain. We Koreans seldom transact business without some money changing hands. While you Western adherents of financial transparency may refer to these as bribes, they are simply commissions, and are consistent with our concept of Korean morality. Whenever favors are handed over to the North, there is the potential for an exchange of monetary favors. As adherents of the lesser good, we Koreans owe it to ourselves and our families to enrich ourselves first, before contributing to the greater good of our nation, the welfare of people, or human rights.
Thus, we will continue to praise the North and criticize the US, although we in fact realize that this is contrary to our national interests. By doing so, we can gain the bargaining power to wheedle out the best deals that we can from the Americans while our businessmen enjoy opportunities to fill their pockets through business dealings with the secretive North.
Westerners’ inability to comprehend our logic and morality gives us the edge because, while you criticize our practices as illogical and immoral, you are blinded to the ways in which we are in fact conducting highly profitable and logical maneuvers.
Mizar5’s comment above comes as an epiphany to me, because it sums up everything that I have always suspected about Korean psychology but have not expressed because I am not Korean. I have seen the light!
Juggertha - About your comment on the competition between the two systems. I once met a ROK diplomat (socially) who told me that the DPRK has had the fastest and most equitable growth of any country in history. And that it was better than South Korea on both those counts. He said its just been in the last few years that things have gotten bad.
Oranckay - If the ROK had a summit with the DPRK in the near future, that would really really REALLY upset the US. Especially if you consider that likely reality that the DPRK will probably make no concessions (as always) and that the North will extract economic benefits and anti-US rhetoric from ROK politicans. While the racial-solidarity psychology of summitry for the sake of summitry would make a ROK-DPRK summit a smashing success no matter what - for the ROK - the summit will further alienate South Korea from its main ally, and best friend.
Mizar5, thank you for your thoughtful comments. It does give me something to consider. I have always assumed that human nature (or a larger part of it) is universal however perhaps I need to consider this and discuss it a bit more with some people. Without the benefit of further thought on my part, I have a gut feeling that this mentality that you speak of is not a good herald of future fortune.
R. Elgin> “Without the benefit of further thought on my part, I have a gut feeling that this mentality that you speak of is not a good herald of future fortune.”
Odd that there is apparently more sense in your gut reaction than most of what passes for thoughtful discussion in our media.
Marmot>”History will be the judge.”
Hopefully history will refer to these times as the dark ages before the Enlightenment when irrational dogma triumphed over reason.
Mizar5,
Sir, with all due respect, this ?€œwesterner?€? stereotyping and ?€œeasterner?€? stereotyping is probably what differntiates a modern Westerner from a Easterner. What I mean is that consider your claims of Greek Philosophy. This Greek sense of ?€œGreater Good?€? never extended to women and slaves just like neo-confucian Koreans. In fact, Confucious talks about individual responsibilty to overthrow an unjust king (mandate from heaven, etc). Plato thought that only the Philosopher class should rule. Is this any different from Neo-Confucian Yangban(Scholar) rule?
Around a third of modern Koreans profess themselves to be Christians, another third Buddhist, and the rest as being largely atheist/agnostic/shaman/etc. Korean people have been accepting foreign ideas just like everyone else, and lately, a large part of Western thought have been incorporated.
It seems that the large difference is that Koreans have been so homogeneous for so long, Koreans always have a ?€œus?€? versus ?€œthem?€? mentality. Just like the Japanese who are the descendents of *ahem* blood obsessed fascist confucian Koreans.
Chinese people don?€™t do this as much, since they are used to having more contact with other cultures. Americans don?€™t differentiate between Irish Americans and Italian Americans. They do differentiate racially but even here things are changing. But Korean people always say, ?€œwe do things differently from the Euros or the Muslims or the Africans?€??€? Even though usually those same Korean people who are saying these things know nothing about the Europeans or the Muslims or the Africans. They are just looking at themselves obsessively at the mirror.
In short, I don?€™t think that the difference in thought is that great. Even though Koreans *think* they know Americans, most are equally clueless(or more) just like the Americans are about Koreans. And I certainly don?€™t think morality is as subjective as people make it seem. A murder is a murder, a rape is a rape. With which I mean to say that, Chung Dong Young trully does not have a moral compass. In short, Chung Dong Young is a f*ckface mother f&ckin?€™ retard. Whether we look at Chung Dong Young from the East or the West, his face still looks like two round mounds with dingleberries around that hole he uses to both ingest and excrete.
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