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	<title>Comments on: Are Japanese and S. Korean nukes the answer to the N. Korean nuclear issue?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 00:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: bluejives</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9880</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9880</guid>
		<description>How to dismantle an atomic bomb:

&lt;a href="http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=11worst" rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=11worst&lt;/a&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How to dismantle an atomic bomb:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=11worst" rel="nofollow">http://www.thebestpageintheuni.....?u=11worst</a></p>
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		<title>By: virtual wonderer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9879</link>
		<dc:creator>virtual wonderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9879</guid>
		<description>North Korea probably believes with "sincerity" that it can succeed in a war with South Korea.  They probably believe that they can bluff the Americans and the Japanese from entering a second Korean War.  

I'm not sure about you, but I can't imagine many Americans who would sacrifice Anchorage, Honolulu, or God forbid, Los Angeles in a nuclear strike in order to save the South Koreans.

In a mano-a-mano fight between the Koreas, with North Korea striking first and with WMD, North Korean leadership might believe they can win.  It doesn't matter what the facts are--they BELIEVE they can win.

If North Korea feels that it's best strategy is to attack now before South Korea goes fully nuclear, they probably will.  (and everyday South KOrea-North military force imbalance grows)  After victory, they can then do a Deng Xiao Ming style reforms, and the hoopla about reunification can be enough to save the NK elite from mob death a la Mussolini.

My point is that, NK may not wait around until the final conclusion of a nuclear arms race with SK.  We have to start to give KJI nice deals now.  Like, if he starts a war, we recind any Geneva protection against torture specifically against HIM, but if he relinquishes power, he is given a billion dollars and a resort in the Swiss Alps, and a complete immunity from his crimes against humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>North Korea probably believes with &#8220;sincerity&#8221; that it can succeed in a war with South Korea.  They probably believe that they can bluff the Americans and the Japanese from entering a second Korean War.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure about you, but I can&#8217;t imagine many Americans who would sacrifice Anchorage, Honolulu, or God forbid, Los Angeles in a nuclear strike in order to save the South Koreans.</p>
<p>In a mano-a-mano fight between the Koreas, with North Korea striking first and with WMD, North Korean leadership might believe they can win.  It doesn&#8217;t matter what the facts are&#8211;they BELIEVE they can win.</p>
<p>If North Korea feels that it&#8217;s best strategy is to attack now before South Korea goes fully nuclear, they probably will.  (and everyday South KOrea-North military force imbalance grows)  After victory, they can then do a Deng Xiao Ming style reforms, and the hoopla about reunification can be enough to save the NK elite from mob death a la Mussolini.</p>
<p>My point is that, NK may not wait around until the final conclusion of a nuclear arms race with SK.  We have to start to give KJI nice deals now.  Like, if he starts a war, we recind any Geneva protection against torture specifically against HIM, but if he relinquishes power, he is given a billion dollars and a resort in the Swiss Alps, and a complete immunity from his crimes against humanity.</p>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9878</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9878</guid>
		<description>The real question we have to face is the same one we?€™ve always been facing and arguing over: Are we simply putting money down the drain in NK or should we start a war now?

I'm not sure there is a need to start a war even if NK goes nuclear.  In fact, the current Washington "redline" seems to take a nuclear-armed North Korea as a given.  It's just that at that point, Washington and Tokyo will most likely say that, well, if Pyongyang has the resources to develop a nuclear arsenal, then it has the resources to feed itself without outside assistance.  And after Tokyo and Seoul go nuclear, it puts pressure on Pyongyang to develop a deterrent large enough to be credible when faced with the threat of a Japanese or South Korean first strike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question we have to face is the same one we?€™ve always been facing and arguing over: Are we simply putting money down the drain in NK or should we start a war now?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure there is a need to start a war even if NK goes nuclear.  In fact, the current Washington &#8220;redline&#8221; seems to take a nuclear-armed North Korea as a given.  It&#8217;s just that at that point, Washington and Tokyo will most likely say that, well, if Pyongyang has the resources to develop a nuclear arsenal, then it has the resources to feed itself without outside assistance.  And after Tokyo and Seoul go nuclear, it puts pressure on Pyongyang to develop a deterrent large enough to be credible when faced with the threat of a Japanese or South Korean first strike.</p>
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		<title>By: virtual wonderer</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9877</link>
		<dc:creator>virtual wonderer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9877</guid>
		<description>Well, despite what WE(U.S.) do, Japan and SK WILL go nuclear the day NK successfully detonates an atom bomb.  We don't even have to make a threat to China that we will give them nukes, because even if we were stridently against a nuclear Japan or SK, it will be meaningless on that day.  Remember couple months ago when SK press "discovered" that it had been violating nuclear research?  And what did the UN do then?

If SK is far along in nuclear weapons research (which we should all assume is something along the line of Israel's current status) we can only assume Japan has a far more advanced one.  They practically have the know-how and they already have the fissile material.  Both of those nations have missile technology.

Japan is flipping about after the "discovery" of less than 20 Japanese nationals kidnapped by NK.  If political maneuvering can accomplish this, then I can only assume that the same exact Hiroshima Peace Memorial can soon become a reminder of what can happen to Japan if they do not achieve nuclear parity with NK.  

SK youth no longer remember the American GI giving out C rations to orphans.  Likewise, Japanese youth have no memory of impaling peasant farmers with a bayonet.  Neither side is probably too squemish about going nuclear.  

No matter what we do, China ALREADY shares threat.  

The real question we have to face is the same one we've always been facing and arguing over:  Are we simply putting money down the drain in NK or should we start a war now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, despite what WE(U.S.) do, Japan and SK WILL go nuclear the day NK successfully detonates an atom bomb.  We don&#8217;t even have to make a threat to China that we will give them nukes, because even if we were stridently against a nuclear Japan or SK, it will be meaningless on that day.  Remember couple months ago when SK press &#8220;discovered&#8221; that it had been violating nuclear research?  And what did the UN do then?</p>
<p>If SK is far along in nuclear weapons research (which we should all assume is something along the line of Israel&#8217;s current status) we can only assume Japan has a far more advanced one.  They practically have the know-how and they already have the fissile material.  Both of those nations have missile technology.</p>
<p>Japan is flipping about after the &#8220;discovery&#8221; of less than 20 Japanese nationals kidnapped by NK.  If political maneuvering can accomplish this, then I can only assume that the same exact Hiroshima Peace Memorial can soon become a reminder of what can happen to Japan if they do not achieve nuclear parity with NK.  </p>
<p>SK youth no longer remember the American GI giving out C rations to orphans.  Likewise, Japanese youth have no memory of impaling peasant farmers with a bayonet.  Neither side is probably too squemish about going nuclear.  </p>
<p>No matter what we do, China ALREADY shares threat.  </p>
<p>The real question we have to face is the same one we&#8217;ve always been facing and arguing over:  Are we simply putting money down the drain in NK or should we start a war now?</p>
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		<title>By: Alvin Pettit</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9876</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvin Pettit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9876</guid>
		<description>?€œIf our nightmare is a nuclear North Korea, China?€™s is a nuclear Japan. It?€™s time to share the nightmares.?€?


I think it would be more correct to say ?€œIf our nightmare is a nuclear North Korea, China?€™s is a nuclear Taiwan. It?€™s time to share the nightmares.?€?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>?€œIf our nightmare is a nuclear North Korea, China?€™s is a nuclear Japan. It?€™s time to share the nightmares.?€?</p>
<p>I think it would be more correct to say ?€œIf our nightmare is a nuclear North Korea, China?€™s is a nuclear Taiwan. It?€™s time to share the nightmares.?€?</p>
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		<title>By: bluejives</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9875</link>
		<dc:creator>bluejives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9875</guid>
		<description>"Bluejives:
?€œ?€?let?€™s say South Korea or Japan does make some Bombs, and for some reason decides to use a few?€??€?

You make no mention of the current NorK possession of nukes (or is it your position that Nork nukes are only a fiction, one cooked up by the BU__SH__ administration for its own nefarious purposes?) 

So the relatively stable democracies of ROK and Japan, finding themselves in possession of nukes, may decide to randomly drop one at any time ?€“ but you?€™re not worried that the DPRK won?€™t? I?€™d call that a classical case of ?€œprojection?€? on your part, but of course I?€™m no psychologist. "

- Paul H

The significance of a nuclear arsenal is not only the warhead itself but the range of the delivery system. Possession of missiles by  South Korea with a radius that encompasses the Korean Peninsula, while South Korea is still under the US protectorate, is to go down a road of no return. Anything with greater range than is a potential threat to China. South Korea would never possess strategic weapons aimed at either North Korea nor China. On the other hand, the full range of the Taepodong-2 missile is 8000 km. The newer, submarine based missiles have an estimated range of 2500 km. What does this mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Bluejives:<br />
?€œ?€?let?€™s say South Korea or Japan does make some Bombs, and for some reason decides to use a few?€??€?</p>
<p>You make no mention of the current NorK possession of nukes (or is it your position that Nork nukes are only a fiction, one cooked up by the BU__SH__ administration for its own nefarious purposes?) </p>
<p>So the relatively stable democracies of ROK and Japan, finding themselves in possession of nukes, may decide to randomly drop one at any time ?€“ but you?€™re not worried that the DPRK won?€™t? I?€™d call that a classical case of ?€œprojection?€? on your part, but of course I?€™m no psychologist. &#8221;</p>
<p>- Paul H</p>
<p>The significance of a nuclear arsenal is not only the warhead itself but the range of the delivery system. Possession of missiles by  South Korea with a radius that encompasses the Korean Peninsula, while South Korea is still under the US protectorate, is to go down a road of no return. Anything with greater range than is a potential threat to China. South Korea would never possess strategic weapons aimed at either North Korea nor China. On the other hand, the full range of the Taepodong-2 missile is 8000 km. The newer, submarine based missiles have an estimated range of 2500 km. What does this mean?</p>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9874</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9874</guid>
		<description>Doug Bandow eminently sensible???!?  Not two words I'd use to describe him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug Bandow eminently sensible???!?  Not two words I&#8217;d use to describe him.</p>
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		<title>By: lirelou</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9873</link>
		<dc:creator>lirelou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9873</guid>
		<description>Zhang Fei. Actually, The Soviet Union was viewed as the real power behind China at the time. As usual, our political views were a bit out of date. Marmot, Paul H., and Z.F., great ideas on the nukes, NATO, and the "ROK-U.S." alliance. (Let's add "grant Puerto Rico independence" to the list. Save us another $22 billion a year.) But, if we are to return to a more "America centric" vision of defense, let's not overlook the restructuring of the U.S. Armed Forces. We need to define exactly what forces the President has for contingency operations short of war, and those which require a Congressional declaration of war to employ (such as long term activation of the Guard and Reserves). This problem has been with us and ignored since Vietnam, and needs to be addressed within the spirit of both reality and the U.S. constitution. Once that is defined, we can set about structuring the pay and benefits of a dual tiered armed forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zhang Fei. Actually, The Soviet Union was viewed as the real power behind China at the time. As usual, our political views were a bit out of date. Marmot, Paul H., and Z.F., great ideas on the nukes, NATO, and the &#8220;ROK-U.S.&#8221; alliance. (Let&#8217;s add &#8220;grant Puerto Rico independence&#8221; to the list. Save us another $22 billion a year.) But, if we are to return to a more &#8220;America centric&#8221; vision of defense, let&#8217;s not overlook the restructuring of the U.S. Armed Forces. We need to define exactly what forces the President has for contingency operations short of war, and those which require a Congressional declaration of war to employ (such as long term activation of the Guard and Reserves). This problem has been with us and ignored since Vietnam, and needs to be addressed within the spirit of both reality and the U.S. constitution. Once that is defined, we can set about structuring the pay and benefits of a dual tiered armed forces.</p>
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		<title>By: Zhang Fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9872</link>
		<dc:creator>Zhang Fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9872</guid>
		<description>Marmot: And of course, you?€™re right ?€“ when we first issued those blank cheques, they were issued because they were in the U.S. interests.

Were they? Would anyone really have missed anything if Korea had been reunified in the 1950's? Tens of thousands of American soldiers would have lived to see their grandchildren. And about a million Chinese troops would have lived to see theirs. The fear 50 years ago was that much of East Asia would become vassal states to the Communist behemoth to the north. Today, many of them are aligning with that same Communist behemoth. Fighting the Korean War was bad for American interests 50 years ago, and providing South Korea a security guarantee continues to be bad for American interests even today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marmot: And of course, you?€™re right ?€“ when we first issued those blank cheques, they were issued because they were in the U.S. interests.</p>
<p>Were they? Would anyone really have missed anything if Korea had been reunified in the 1950&#8217;s? Tens of thousands of American soldiers would have lived to see their grandchildren. And about a million Chinese troops would have lived to see theirs. The fear 50 years ago was that much of East Asia would become vassal states to the Communist behemoth to the north. Today, many of them are aligning with that same Communist behemoth. Fighting the Korean War was bad for American interests 50 years ago, and providing South Korea a security guarantee continues to be bad for American interests even today.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Buchignani</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/12/25/are-japanese-and-s-korean-nukes-the-answer-to-the-n-korean-nuclear-issue/#comment-9871</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Buchignani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1356#comment-9871</guid>
		<description>That's an innovative long term policy solution, and I wonder why I haven't read it elsewhere.  Certainly a nuclear Japan would be a great bargaining chip to get China to crack down on North Korea.  But would Japan even go nuke?  I wonder... don't they have a fear complex about nuclear weapons?  Perhaps withdrawing our military support would simply leave them pacifist and unprotected, as opposed to pacifist and protected.  
The same problems also apply to South Korea.  Where's the guarantee they would want nukes, or be willing to mount a credible defense in our absence?  Those two countries choosing appeasement and falling into the Chinese orbit is not an acceptable outcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an innovative long term policy solution, and I wonder why I haven&#8217;t read it elsewhere.  Certainly a nuclear Japan would be a great bargaining chip to get China to crack down on North Korea.  But would Japan even go nuke?  I wonder&#8230; don&#8217;t they have a fear complex about nuclear weapons?  Perhaps withdrawing our military support would simply leave them pacifist and unprotected, as opposed to pacifist and protected.<br />
The same problems also apply to South Korea.  Where&#8217;s the guarantee they would want nukes, or be willing to mount a credible defense in our absence?  Those two countries choosing appeasement and falling into the Chinese orbit is not an acceptable outcome.</p>
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