Last night I noticed that there were Christmas lights at a couple of the historical sites in Seoul. I asked my taxi driver what he thought about it, and he had some very strong opinions about it - opinions that I share. I think that it is extremely in poor taste to decorate these historical sites with decorations - it shows a lack of sensitivity to the country and to those who do not celebrate Christmas. I think that these sites should not only avoid Christmas lights, but also commercialism which seems to slowly be creeping into these sacred sites. Korea has a long history and is blessed with many historical sites that somehow avoided beind destroyed by the countless wars and disasters that have plagued the country - they need to be protected and shown respect.
Somehow I can’t imagine the Statue of Liberty all decked out with Buddhist lanterns, nor the White House.
37 Comments
I totally agree with you, Robert. These very special remaining places — few as they are — should retain whatever dignity they have left. Decorations like that are just idiotic; the officials who approve them and put them up are just not thinking; or else they are Fundamentalist Christians deliberately trying to insult what those sites represent, perhaps. It ought to be a crime….
Tacky to say the least.
These people no shame if not taste! I think many foreigners have more respect for said culture than some who were born here and that is sad.
just curious… what are some of the places you are speaking of? I’m trying to make a mental picture… better yet, get some digital shots if you could
There are always decorations for the bdays of Buddha and Jesus and I’m sure everyone has seen ‘em before. I’ve no idea why they went overboard this year, but I’m thinking mayor Lee Myung Bak may be part of the problem. Seoul Mayor Lee Myung-Bak is facing a major leadership crisis posing a major debacle to his alleged dream of becoming the next presidential hopeful on the Grand National Party (GNP) ticket in 2007.
The flamboyant city mayor is under fire from various civic groups and Seoul citizens following his tactless and controversial remarks before a huge Christian congregation and his new transportation system fiasco.
As a devoted Presbyterian senior [=probably a bad translation of jangno (elder)], he recently attended a religious meeting in Seoul and publicly said he was offering the city of Seoul to Almighty God in his capacity as Seoul mayor.
Such a message drew widespread and vehement criticism from members of non-Christian community across the country as well as Seoul citizens and civic groups.
Political observers said that such a comment was highly calculated and aimed at the forthcoming presidential elections. The Christian community in Korea exercises tremendous influence on local politics.
Whether Lee’s behind the lights this year he certainly can’t have been too opposed and I think we can expect more tricks like that for the next few years.
I’d like to take this opportunity to wish everyone — and especially the artist formerly known as Shin Jong Il — a “White Christmas”.
“I?€™d like to take this opportunity to wish everyone ?€“ and especially the artist formerly known as Shin Jong Il ?€“ a ?€œWhite Christmas”.”
Comment by slim
So very kind of you, Slim.
‘White Christmas’, eh? The song, despite being a very white anglo saxon protestant piece of sentimental crap, was actually written by a Jew by the name of Irvin Berlin. You know, the kind of people who still associated anything that had ‘Christ’ in it with pogroms and persecution from literally thousands of years of experience? The same people that your predecessers in Amerikkka spat upon? Dont you find this very ironic? Because for me it makes perfect sense. As I have stated before in a different thread, there is a strange temptation in the world for different peoples of a non-white background to ‘act white’ in otrder to gain the acceptance of a white audience. Oy vey! Geshumuncken meshuganas!
Koreans I know seem to be enamored with the Christmas lights hung up all over our city. I am always hearing comments from them on how beautiful they are.
Maybe theyre trying some weird cultural importation for Korea?
The christmas lights are all one color and incredibly gaudy - there is not style to how they are put up - more is better. Yuck.
Is ipossible that these were merely “festive” lights? In other words, was there anything about them to identify them specifically as Christmas lights, other than the timing?
I ask because strings of white lights are highly popular now in the US on public property, in restaurants with outdoor seating, etc., and can be seen year-round in many locations. Also, I can recall seeing lots of these lights used for the celebrations of the Indian Diwalli festival, which is pretty far from a Christmas-related observance.
You would think that, if the Korean government had the money lying around to decorate the palaces with Christmas lights, it would also have the money to CLEAN those palaces. The mold growing on some of the floors (especially at Bimilwon, last I checked) is just embarrassing. As is the general state of the palaces’ upkeep.
Denying the greatness of the Almighty Lord our Savior by failing to put CHRISTmas lights up on every historical building in Seoul would be a direct insult to George W. Bush himself, as well as the hundreds of millions of conservative “morals” voters that give him his moral (and decorative) authority over the world.
Seriously, What Would Jesus Do?
Buddha makes the Baby Jesus cry.
While I agree that Christmas lights at sites such as these is perhaps not a good idea, there are some people around here who should get a grip.
Strange as it may seem to the knee-jerk Bush bashers (who still haven’t figured him out), I doubt the Korean authorities are in thrall to the American religious right.
To those delicate types who think it indicates “a lack of sensitivity” to non-Christians, you should read this short commentary by a Jew–all the way to the end.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Dec16.html
One of several key passages:
“Some Americans get angry at parents who want to ban carols because they tremble that their kids might feel “different” and “uncomfortable”…I feel pity. What kind of fragile religious identity have they bequeathed their children that it should be threatened by exposure to carols?”
People who get upset at stuff this should just–dare I say it?–get a life.
BS, perhaps you are correct, but I think that there is a time and place for everything and somehow I just don’t think it is fitting. Please understand I am not just singling out Christmas - I would think that it is just as wrong to put up “Expo” banners all over the walls of the palace or anything else like that.
CrankyObjectivist - you might be correct too….to be honest most of the lights that I saw were white, but I am still pretty sure they were there for the holiday season. As assinine as it may sound I would have no real problems with Buddhist lanterns and so forth being in the palace and on the walls (oranckay I am sure that you might want to point out that this would be in contradiction to much of the Choson period), yet, it somehow seems more fitting than the Christmas lights - it gives it atmosphere.
I agree with haisan, if the government has that much money to spread around then they need to use some of it to protect these historical sites and to clean them up.
If you travel to Nagasaki and visit the historical area around the former British Consulate you can literally feel as if you have been transported back into time (sans the automobile sounds) - it breathes history……unfortunately that is lacking in Korea.
Finally - why does every post that gets put up have to deviate into an Anti-American/Korean post? I am sure that there are enough posts already on Marmot’s Blog that we can go back to and “flame each other.” Marmot, perhaps that is a suggestion - perhaps you can create a seperate post that can be titled “I am a Racist” and then each time one of us feels like making a blanket racist comment, we can just go there and post it.
Wishing you all the best
Bah, Humbug!
It’s more than the poor taste in decorating historic sites. It’s the lack of respect for historic sites across Korea. All throughout the country, these so called “national treasures” are rotting, virtually. It isn’t enough that wars brought heavy destructions to the monuments (thereby a large number of historic sites are actually rebuilt sterile modern monuments) but due to lack of foresight and neglect, Korea is rapidly losing her treasures. You have to understand the Korean mentality. Typical Korean mentality equates “old” with “primitive”, and “new” with “modern”. Thus explains Korea’s penchant for paving everything in the country with concrete. I realize what I just said contradicts with Koreans’ sometimes blind and loyal following for “traditions”. Then again Korea is full of contradictions. For example: Koreans are fanatical about eating foods that are good for your body. Yet they drink like fish and smoke like chimney.
A lot of you are missing a small point here. Asia is in transition, and the “christmas” decorations are a small symbol of that.
As for Buddhism, Buddhists in the United States who have inherited their faith (as opposed to converts, mostly non-Orientals) have been putting up christmas trees and other decorations for years. They view it as a pleasant custom associated with being American, and in the spirit of the christmas tradition. I have seen many a christmas tree with the appropriate gifts waiting for December 25th in many a devout Buddhist home.
So bring on the christmas decorations! I suspect that no true Buddhist or Confucian will be offended. Certain “third-world mentalities”, will undoubtedly find therein evidence of “coca-colonization”, but who cares? That’s a western hangup.
I like the lights - I think most do. Maybe Koreans associate them with the new year, or maybe they can/will?
Well, as i said there in #18, yes i think those lights mean “end-of-the-year-good-wishes” to many more Koreans (and probably weiguks too) than they mean “joy to the world, the Lord has come”…
Whooops, that last post wasn’t supposed to be “by Anonymous”, it’s me…
Kimbob, i gotta disagree with ya — respectfully –
> It?€™s the lack of respect for historic sites across
> Korea. All throughout the country, these so
> called ?€œnational treasures?€? are rotting, virtually.
> It isn?€™t enough that wars brought heavy destructions
> to the monuments (thereby a large number of historic
> sites are actually rebuilt sterile modern monuments)
> but due to lack of foresight and neglect, Korea is
> rapidly losing her treasures.
I was quite a few of the “National Treasure” sites this year and last — esp major Temples — and saw no rot at all. Quite well cared-for, i thought; some old buildings that *were* rotting have been dismantled and lovingly rebuilt in as original style as possible (i.e. Main Hall at Haein-sa, Gungnak-jeon at Bongjeong-sa). Not “sterile” either, but lived-in, still used for real function, “living” tradition — even Bulguksa. So i’m curious, specifically what ?€œnational treasure?€? sites are you refering to?
> You have to understand the Korean mentality.
> Typical Korean mentality equates ?€œold?€? with ?€œprimitive”,
> and ?€œnew?€? with ?€œmodern”.
Only amoung the young & clueless (same as in any nation). My own experience is much more that Koreans equate “old” with “we’re proud of it, shows we have deep roots of achievement” [*except* in the case of living Shamanism, which many Koreans still regard as primitive, shameful, don't-show-that-to-foreigners], and “new” with “we’re proud of it, shows we are rapidly becoming an ‘advanced’ nation”… But i accept, your perception may be different.
> Thus explains Korea?€™s penchant for paving
> everything in the country with concrete.
The urges to preserve things against erosion and improve access to them in this Automobile Age doesn’t sufficiently explain this penchant…?
> Then again Korea is full of contradictions.
> For example: Koreans are fanatical about eating foods that are good for your body.
> Yet they drink like fish and smoke like chimney.
1. not all do. less & less men do, actually, even as the numbers of female smokers & drinkers rapidly rises.
2. It’s not such a contradiction — many Koreans eat health-boosting foods explicitly to counter-act the damage that they know the smoking & drinking (and urban pollution) is doing to them. I do some of the same…
Someone is attempting to compliment locations with lights. It’s simple, no? Maybe, as someone mentioned, the arrangement is not done well? I’ll have to take a trip downtown and check it out for myself. Their is a way to attractively highlight historically significant locations with lights.
‘i’d like to wish the artist formerly know as shin jong il a white christmas.’ slim
just in casr you’re implying i’m bluejives, uh, no, i’m not. i post under my monniker which is nulji which was shin jong il. race is not my issue but i see it’s your’s.
oh, and you want me to have a white christmas? yes, slim, i think i will. thanks.
Uhmm, jtb-in-texas, you seem to have lost all track of the subject we’re discussing in this thread…
> The lights may look tacky to you; but it may bring in more paying customers,
> thus allowing them to keep people employed longer or even hire more of the unemployed
> and keep them and their children in rice and kimchi through the winter.
> Just think of the children they?€™re feeding?€?
We’re not talking about comercial businesses here, we’re discussing “Christmas lights at a couple of the historical sites in Seoul” — the gates and palaces, i assume. No issues of employment are involved (the city workers who presumably put these up & take them down would not lose their jobs if this were not done). Some of us just think these lights on THOSE sites are tacky or inappropriate, that’s all…
Well, I don?€™t agree with you at all, jtb-in-texas.
By the doctrine of free speech, anybody can comment on anything happening in any country. We are people who live in this country (Korea) or who have lived here, and it?€™s not ?€œout of place and condescending?€? at all for us to express our opinions about what we see going on. Koreans who visit the United States or observe it from afar are also perfectly free to say anything they want about what they experience or feel.
Historical experience suggests that the opinion of foreign guests in any nation may occasionally provide valuable insight, may reveal things that the native-born have overlooked for whatever reason. The Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville wrote the very best explanation of the American social and political character after touring around for just a few years in the 1820s; his book is still used in American high school & university civics classes (it was in mine) because few, whether American or ?€œforeign,?€? have ever approached his level of insight into what was ?€œnew?€? about what was going on in that ?€œnew world?€? society?€?
And note that none of us here have any power or even desire to order ?€œthe Koreans?€? to do or change anything ?€“ we?€™re just some folks chatting on the net.
So cut us all some slack, eh?
I think, this is not a legit topic for us foreign guests to comment on.
Here’s why. This kind of thing has nothing to do with us. If Koreans are upset at this, they will raise a fuss. If they don’t, they are not bothered.
Either way, the xpat brigade is unnecessary.
It doesn’t matter which country Namdaemun Gate is located. There’s nothing wrong with placing lights on structures. If celebrating Christmas or any other holiday with lights on structures is unacceptable then eventually we’ll have to remove all places and symbols of worship from public view, but I don’t know how we’ll determine if a symbol is religious or why we ever did.
You may not see Buddhist lanterns on the White House, but you will see an official White House Hanukkah party, as happened just recently, hosted by President Bush, with quite a few rabbis involved. Bush even lit a menorah. Picture of the large White House menorah here.
People actually live in Texas? That really *is* tasteless.
Tis the Season…Christmas in Korea
A friend of mine back home was asking what Christmas in Korea is like. Here’s a link to an interesting post, on another blog, touching base on the topic of the watering down of Korea’s culture.
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