The Korea Times and JoongAng Ilbo have finally decided to report on the absolutely infuriating incident that took place in Miryang, South Gyeongsang province in which a gang up 41 boys (with police saying another 30 to 70 could be involved) repeatedly gang raped five middle and high school girls over the course of a year. If that wasn’t bad enough, the girls and their families were then threatened by the parents of the boys and insulted by police investigating the crime.
Just to give you the basic facts:
On Tuesday, the 41 high school students from Miryang were caught by the police after beating and raping three middle school girls several times since January.
The boys allegedly met one of the victims, identified as Choi, 14, through chatting on cell phones, and sexually assaulted her when she visited them in Miryang in January.
They then threatened to upload the scene of the assault on the Internet, and lured Choi’s sister and a cousin then raped them as well.
The brutal crime only got worse when the police got involved:
Police at first arrested only three of the 41 boys involved, but the victims and other citizens strongly protested, demanding that other suspects be arrested and punished.
Only then did police arrest the additional nine students and book 29 others without detention on Saturday.
Police have come under strong criticism for reportedly making the young victims of the sexual assaults feel ashamed and insulted during the investigation, by failing to protect them from their assaulters and even leveling insults at them.
The victims and their families demanded questioning by female police officers, but were ignored by the police. Some of their personal details were also made public.
When the victims were questioned at the police station, family members of the assaulters besieged the victims, threatening them with additional attacks.
In the course of investigation, the girls were also able to hear abuse from one of the attackers. Police also made the victims point out their assailants in front of them, leading the girls to worry about the possibility of revenge.
Actually, to be more specific, some of the family members told the girls’ family members, “Now that you’ve reported our sons, try to survive. Watch out for yourselves from now on.” Apparently, some of the family members identified themselves as “gangsters” as well.
As pointed out, the police arrested only three of the initial 41. 12 were released on bail, six were booked without detention, and 20 were sent home with a warning. Yes, warnings for involvement in serial rape. Just goes to show you an offender need not a SOFA for the cops to drop the ball.
Oh, and just for added measure, one of the Ulsan cops took the opportunity to insult the victims:
One police officer was also found to have insulted the victims, saying: “My hometown is Miryang, and you girls have brought disgrace on the city.”
Actually, that’s not all the cop said to the girls, but to be fair to the KT, the JoongAng didn’t report was said in full, either. What was actually said was:
“Weren’t you girls waving your asses around and [kept] going there because you liked it? My hometown is Miryang, and you’ve destroyed the reputation of the town.”
Needless to say, Korea’s Internet users, a.k.a. the “Netizens,” have been furious. Lists of names, photos, phone numbers, and other personal information of the perpetrators — obtained by Korea’s industrious Netizens — have been making their way around cyberspace. Saturday evening’s candlelight protest at Gwanghwamun was planned on the Internet, with other Internet warriors planning “road trips” to Miryang to mete out some punishment of their own. One problem with such phenomena, of course, is that many of the names and photos going around have not been correct.
Readers of Korean might find this piece critical of the media coverage of the incident interesting. I’ll probably cite from it tomorrow.
Sphere: Related Content
115 Comments
* In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes ech month and 683,280 rapes each year.
* 1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assulted in her lifetime.
* The United States has the world’s highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It’s 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
* 1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband.
* 83% of rape cases are ages 24 or under.
* 1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.
* 1 in 12 males students surveyed had commited acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had commited such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
* 75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquintance rape had been drinking or using drugs.
* Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police.
“For the piece that you?€™re planning to cite later, could you tell us what comments people have posted to that article.”
Oh forgot to mention, for people who are unable to read Korean. Thanks.
41 boys, eh? Parents defending their boys, eh? Not too surprising. Look at Scott Peterson’s family. Absolute denial. I can’t say this with absolute certainty, but if my boy did something like that, I won’t support a lie. I would ask for a milder sentence, but absolute denial is really ugly. Selfish filth.
If you didn’t notice by now, Korea doesn’t take rape seriously. They kind of think that raped women were raped because they weren’t careful.
It’s time to make an example out of people. Put all 41 in jail. Give them all 10 year terms. Fire the policemen who were in charge. Make a punishingly clear example.
It’s for the good of Korea.
I was always a bit suspicious when the Korean media put Yonsama from Winter Sonata forward as the prime example of the modern-day Korean male, but now I’m a believer!
Right there on the extras disc of the Winter Sonata DVD set is an unaired episode titled “Victim, Schmictim.” Our bespectacled hero put on his inspectors hat to investigate a brutal case of gang rape in this special episode. Choosing not to waste time with the perps, Yonsama took aim at the 13-year old victim, berating and insulting her before forcing her to identify her attackers face to face, as well as parading her in front of the parents of the perps for some additional pain and suffering.
Never again will I argue with the Japanese housewives in my neighborhood when they regale me with tales of the dead-accurate depiction of Korean men in that wonderfully realistic drama. So true. So true.
For the piece that you’re planning to cite later, could you tell us what comments people have posted to that article.
hanminjoke, to be fair, if you read Korean, you would know that has been on the Korean news for a while now.
English language papers mostly don’t cover local news until it becomes a national issue, which this has become as the public anger has been built up.
Essentially, English papers in Korea are rags, more designed to act as an ad to advertise Korea to foreigners, rather then bring serious news. At least I’ll give you that one.
Oh my God. Miryang? That small, charming, sleepy little town in Kyungsangnam-do? I taught English there at a middle school back in ‘95. Damn the police!
What did you expect? “Here is Korea.”
Brian
I’m glad that Korean “netziens” are raising their voice over an issue that is really worth their efforts. The whole thing is illustrative of improvements that desperately need made law enforcement so that such problems are handled in a quick and professional manner. Having family members of assailants make open threats to rape victims should never be tolerated in any society that prides itself on justice.
i am not sure what is worse: the (lack of) action of the cops or our righteous indignation over it. In each case, I question the motives. Just because some slapping around shows up on a DVD or some rape-like scene ends up on a Korean ero video doesn’t mean the all Koreans are animals. Likewise, look at Japan. The bottom line is that we Amercans rape more than the Koreans and Japanese combined.
Further, Koreans generally turn the other way on ALL crimes by minors–so this is not really just about rape. The Koreans know what has been right under America’s nose all along, that throwing 40-70 minors behind bars for 10 years will niether create 40-70 model citizens nor dissuade others from doing the same thing.
How 40-70 kids coordinate the rape of 5 girls over several months seems slightly ridiculous. But what is clear, with that many people involved, is that there was a lot of “follow the leader” crap going on (a very stupid thing Koreans do quite well). The leaders should go to jail, in my opinion, and the others pay-up some money. I’m sure that is what is in the minds of the authorities down there.
aletheia, I do not know where you get your data but based on what Korean women have told me, rape is rampant in Korea and the police do nothing about it 99% of the time. I once had a girlfriend who was assualted by a taxi driver on her way home from a movie. She did not even bother to report it.
According to the FBI UCR report released last month, there were 93,443 reports of forcible rape in 2003. A slight decrease from the previous year.
I am impressed with your figures, aletheia. However, you display great ignorance of Korean society.
Marmot I am glad you finally did this article - I was a little disappointed Sunday when I didn’t see it on your Blog.
aletheia:
I am not going to dispute your facts that you have given - I can’t. I remember watching a couple years ago on the Oprah Show (yeah I watch it - so what?) about the discovery of young girls in middle school engaged in oral sex parties (they were discovered after the school health officials noticed an abnormally high rate of VD). These things happen throughout the world and Korea is no exception.
There are many instances of these rapes in Korea. Remember several years ago the high school boys video taped their orgy with a middle school girl and sold it - you can still find the videos out there. I don’t think the girl was raped, I think she went along with the taping. The point is the police did not handle it very well. There are many sites on the internet where minors engage in video chatting (one-on-one and in groups) and often they shed their clothing. I have surprised a number of students in the past while using the computer in the PC rooms. When they (the students) see a foreigner they naturally assume that I am not a threat to their erotic chatting (IMs) but I often can’t help noticing (alright - so I am nosey [nosy?]) what they are chatting about. I am sure that many of you are familiar with Pong-gae meetings and parties - you would be surprised at how many of these kids are involved in them.
I think that things aren’t going to change for the better until people actually get involved and force the establishment to change. The system needs to be changed.
I am going to shamelessly quote one of my own articles:
“I remember reading in the newspaper many years ago that a Korean woman woke up in the middle of the night to discover her house being robbed. The precise facts of the story elude my memory, but the thief raped her and while she was being raped she bit off a piece of his nose. He was captured, arrested and brought to court, but so was she. She was arrested for assault and found guilty. He was found innocent of rape because she was dressed in such a provocative manner (she was wearing her underwear _ remember, she was asleep in her own bed), that the thief felt compelled to rape her. I remember reading that in complete disbelief. Thank goodness the courts no longer think this way. But wait a second, that?€™s wrong! The courts still do reason in this manner. The recent ruling by the Seoul High Court that a young female American soldier (only 19), raped by a Korean taxi driver, after she missed the last bus at Incheon International Airport and accepted the rapist?€™s offer to drive her to her camp, was not actually rape is a case in point. The Inchon District Court found the taxi driver guilty, but the Seoul High Court reasoned that she gave up physically resisting the taxi driver too early in the assault, and thus it was not rape! With this sort of reasoning one must wonder what the real rape rate is in Korea.
It is nice to know there are some things in the Land of the Morning Calm I know will never change.”
Alethia’s “statistics” look pretty familiar — they seem to have come from the same “women’s studies” cabal that infested our law school. God, what a bunch of totalitarian pinheads.
One of the striking differences between Alethia’s crew and the rest of us is they consider EVERYTHING to be a rape or attempted rape. The FBI reported not 683,280 rapes in 2003, but 93,433 — Alethia’s figure being seven times higher. The FBI’s figures include all sexual contact obtained by force or threat of force, which itself includes the victim’s reasonable perception of threat of force. Basically, any time a woman reports she was afraid something bad would happen if sex were refused, that’s a “forcible rape” according to FBI definition.
The women’s studies definition is far, far broader, in a way that seems intellectually dishonest and defamatory.
Aletheia: “The bottom line is that we Amercans rape more than the Koreans and Japanese combined.”
Gerry: Where is your comparative data, Aletheia?
Gerry: Even in recent times, one tactic used by some Korean men to get the woman of their dreams was to essentially rape the woman, who then often felt she had little choice but to marry the man who have deflowered her. Thank God Korean women now realize they have other options, including reporting the rapist to the police, who still seem to have trouble understanding the meaning of “rape.”
The women?€™s studies definition is far, far broader, in a way that seems intellectually dishonest and defamatory.
– which is not to say that rape is not a serious crime (the usual retort from the totalitarian sisters of the women’s studies movement). My instinct is to lock ‘em ALL up, perpetrators and police, and mark that as the proverbial “this will not stand” line in the sand. And the Missouri trailer-park side of me says the fathers and/or brothers of the victims ought to go have a little word with the rotten little bastards. But 41 of ‘em, God…
I have two little girls, ages 7 and 4, and my wife and I have already been warning them about strange men and the danger that they can pose. We’ve got them in taekwondo and will keep them in it through high school. The problem with martial arts is that a big guy is almost always able to overpower some girl. When my daughters are in high school I will probably teach them to use a gun, and make sure they have one when they go off to college or the service.
Fathers need to teach their daughters to be strong and independent, brave and resourceful, but most of all — let her know that Daddy always, ALWAYS, has got her back no matter what.
It’s in this last area that Korea’s patriarchy tragically lets its daughters down.
The point is not really who rapes or screws or chats about ?€œswapping?€? more or less than us. Those numbers could be in fact inflated, for all I know. Does it matter? The point is rather what to do with MINORS in such cases. A criminal record is not something that can ever be overcome in this country. I think Koreans generally would say that 40-70 or so 16 year olds should not be condemned to a life of cleaning sewers for this act.
Should that attitude be changed? Maybe, but there is a method to their madness.
Oh I get it now, Brian, Kimchipig, Brenden, and Gerry.
You guys are only interested in news like this not because of justice, but only insofar as to paint Koreans, especially Korean men look like backwards savages compared to ‘enlightened’ whites like you. When I was in Korea, in Miryang 10 years ago, this sort of event would have been unheard of. And what’s with this pissing contest about who has a worse record in rape statistics? Unreported rape doesn’t happen in the US as well? My current girlfriend, a girl who grew up in South Jersey, was raped by some strange psycho she met at a beach back in high school. Guess what? She and her friends didnt report it to the police despite the fact that he was threatening them. Rape is a very tricky. Another thing, when her parents found out, her parents, especially her father, treated it as if it was her fault that it happened.
“Those numbers could be in fact inflated, for all I know. Does it matter?”
It matters only if you care about your credibility. After seeing you post what are obviously loaded stats (it only takes a quick google search to verify that fact), I’ll cease to read your posts from here on out.
If you’re not concerned that you come across as a dishonest fraud, then no, it doesn’t matter if they’re inflated.
If you’d like to be taken seriously, then yes.
hanminjoke.
The numbers look to me as though one is officially reported cases, and the other includes unreported ones. I didn’t just make it up. But I think we can all agree that lots more happen than are reported.
oh. so sorry, robertneff. i forgot to include you in my list of distinguished ‘enlightened’ white male expats. you the biggest one of them all.
oh yeah, you too hanminjoke. all the usual suspects.
“You guys are only interested in news like this not because of justice, but only insofar as to paint Koreans, especially Korean men look like backwards savages compared to ?€?enlightened?€™ whites like you.”
Klassic Korean maneuver jives, overstating the criticism, i.e. SAVAGES, in order to deflect a valid and reasonable criticism.
The fact is that Korean society is still relatively backward when it comes to the treatment of women, both victims of crime and otherwise. That doesn’t equate to Korean men being savages, but it does equate to them having very little respect for Korean females.
The examples are countless, but one of the klassics was a coach of a Korean women’s pro basketball about 3-4 years ago who punched one of his players in the side of the head, rupturing her eardrum and causing permanent damage to her.
Not only was he not charged with a crime, he wasn’t even fucking fired because the league accepted his explanation that she “wasn’t playing well and talked back to him.”
Tell me jives, were that an American coach, would you call him a savage, and would you criticize a society that tolerated him?
Thought so.
Joker,
I do not take issue with people decrying any act of injustice. I do take issue, with ‘enlightened’ whiteys like you, who delight in news of such despicable acts, so that you can play your tired role of the self-righteous white expat pointing fingers at the backward savages so that you can boost your own sense of worth. You have no love for Korea or its people.
What’s “backward when it comes to the treatment of women” is when a woman cannot walk down the street alone at night. When a female Korean student is off to the US to study that is the first thing I warn her about.
Enough about the rape stats and which country handles things better. I’m much more interested in what’s being done for these poor girls and if there’s anything I can do to help them.
Why were there protests at Gwanghwamun though- is that where the national police force is centered too?
Bluejives - I really don’t see what your beef is over this post. An injustice was done, I’m sorry injustices and I don’t see how the “enlightened whiteys” are painting Korean men and Korea as backward and bad. Its a problem with the Korean system and I’ve read plenty to know that this isn’t an isolated incident. It seems to me you would rather boast the image of a Korea, hidden under a mask to cover its ugliness. Fact is fact, and if you can’t handle it maybe you are doing more damage then the “enlightened whiteys” with your very ignorant response. How would you know if some people have no love for Korea? People like Bluejives, make Korea look bad.
. . . and for certain of you posters — straight from the mouth of one, real Korean Judge — currently, if an adult is caught having sex with a minor, the first time is a FINE and a WARNING, the second time comes jail time and the time would not be more than a few months. I do not know what the third time would bring.
It is obvious that certain things are not taken that seriously here.
” …if an adult is caught having sex with a minor…” That IS wrong, sure. But the accused here are also minors.
While I often hear Koreans hypocritically accusing Americans of being obsessed with sex, I agree with Bluejives that all the piling-on accusations of Koreans as forever bumbling misogynists (What did you expect? ?€œHere is Korea.?€?–Brian) is equally based on stupidity.
I’m just glad that bluejives and aletheia have the smarts to identify and criticize the REAL evil in Korea — which is anonymous white males posting on the internet — rather than focusing their time and efforts on small, insignificant things like systemic corruption and incompetence in the police force, adolescent gang rapists, rapists parents threatening victims, and Korean society’s general tolerance of the attitudes and values that lead to such ugliness.
Keep fighting the good fight against the evil white male, my brothers! That little problem with gang raping of 13-year old girls will probably just take of itself.
Or at the very least all those thousands of female politicians and judges in the Korean government and justice system will take care of it.
Oh sorry, scratch that last paragraph.
FYI — I am an evil whitey, and a fairly conservative one at that. Absolutely no shame in that. I am just not in the business of “civilizing” other people or liberating their women.
Ah yes, Marmot’s comments section is at it again.
The very fact that this case is in the news at all is significant progress, hard to imagine only a few years ago.
“Ah yes, Marmot?€™s comments section is at it again.”
Yes, I was a bit afraid things might get a bit, well, “heated” when I made this post.
I would be extremely uncomfortable citing this incident as somehow indicative of the attitudes of Korean men toward women and sexual abuse. I think most people, regardless of sex, are going to be outraged by an incident like this. The fact that the crime was compounded by rather insensitive responses from both the local police and national media (read the link — in Korean, sorry — that I attached at the end of the post) may or may not be indicative of general attitudes, but to be frank, I have yet to draw a conclusion on this. Moreover, even if it did reveal an uncomfortable level acceptance of sexual abuse at a societal level, this would not mean that the problem was a strictly Korean issue. If we’d like to answer questions such as whether this incident reveals certain social attitudes and/or whether those attitudes are culturally specific, it’s going to take a more reasoned and well-researched discourse than simple recriminations regarding “Korean male savages” or “self-righteous white expats.” Of course, I don’t mean to criticize those who post comments on my blog — I am thankful for all those who take the time to comment on this site — but I think this incident does raise questions that could be addressed, but given the obvious sensitivity of the matter at hand, I’d prefer if the discussion went in a slightly more level-headed direction.
“rape is rampant in Korea and the police do nothing about it 99% of the time.” - kimchipig
By all accounts that I have read, rape is under-reported in Korea. Having said that, you don’t help your case when you pull numbers out of the hat like that. I’m surprised nobody challenged your figures when everybody had a problem with aletheia’s.
“Not only was he not charged with a crime, he wasn?€™t even fucking fired because the league
accepted his explanation that she ?€œwasn?€™t playing well and talked back to him.?€?” - Hanminjoke
That might have been the case 3 or 4 years ago (and I’m not familiar with this case) but things do improve. Case in point, women’s short track team - where the entire coaching staff was fired after they were found to have beaten the athletes. It shows that beatings like this are no longer tolerated, and whoever does this in the future will have to expect to get fired. That’s an improvement.
“but it does equate to them having very little respect for Korean females.” - Hanminjoke
Yes and no. Yes you are right, that is the sign of disrespect for women. But also it is relative. How much respect does American men give to American females when American females can’t even safely walk down the street at night without the much greater fear of getting raped / or really getting raped?
“which is anonymous white males posting on the internet” - Hanminjoke
Sometimes it’s not the criticism but the way you do it that ticks off people. For instance, look at your name, Hanminjoke. It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulders.
“You have no love for Korea or its people.” - bluejives
It’s kinda unrealistic to expect everyone to have a “love for Korea or its people”, wouldn’t you say? Don’t let the few rotten apples skew the fact that there are/have been a lot of good points made by the expats that post here.
Marmot, why can’t we edit our previews?
After I click preview, and try to edit and preview again, I get a blank screen. Is it my browser (Mozilla)?
Bluejives -
Actually I am unsure how I achieved the dubious honor of being the biggest enlightened?€™ white male expat on your list. I exercise, I watch what I eat - but the pounds just keep adding up. I would think that your mother taught you manners and would have instructed you that it is wrong to make fun of fat…… wait a second, that is not what you meant - is it?
I don’t feel that I am one of these enlightened whities as you so racially title me (which makes me wonder - are you one of these enlightened [add you favorite racial slur). I write as I see it - regardless of who is right or wrong. The particular period that I study I generally find the British the biggest trouble-makers in Late Choson (sorry Brits)followed by the Americans. But then again you probably have never really read my material, because if you had, you would know that I wrote about a drunk American Minister, less than distinguished American missionaries, and extremely unthinkable acts by Americans hired by the Choson government. However, you, with your chip on your shoulder, have decided to just lash out because I am an American. May I direct your attention to a comment posted on The Korea Times by VoiceofCorea, does it sound familiar? -
“We should not discuss bad things about Corea like this. Instead we should focus on USA and how bad the USA is. Corea is learning many bad things from USA. Its better we go back to the old ways of Chosun dynasty. The longest and greatest dynasty in the worlds history.”
I think to sum this all up bluejives - get off of it - this isn’t about you and your personal beef with the rest of the world because you are so insecure (I think in your case and others, the term “superior inferiority complex” might be a good discription), but instead, this about a crime that was committed by a group of kids upon kids and compounded by the uncaringness of a few police officers.
Bluejives - wishing you the best in YOUR little world
Robert Neff
aletheia,I am not faulting you for your numbers - we have seen this before - numbers can be manipulated to “prove” whatever we want them to prove. Like you, I am not in the civiling mode.
For the people who want to make it a “Korea is better than the US” or vice-versa it is relatively easy to see that the United States has more than our share of problems. That police show on Friday, Special Crimes or something like that - which is basically about sex crimes. Unbelievable at times in what it depicts, but unfortunately, a lot of it based on fact. CSI, Cheaters, Springer Show, Oprah, everywhere there are shining examples of the problems that United States has. We know it and most of the world does too. Why is it though, that when someone reports something about Korea that isn’t flattering the person becomes a racist - or in the words of Bluejives an “enlightened whitie?” A lot of things have changed in Korea because of the publicity of the events - not necessarily in Western presses as evidenced by this last incident, but through the publicity it arouses the anger and indignation of the people (in this case Koreans) who end up making a change.
Punishment for these boys - I fully agree with you that a police record will basically destroy their lives. But where in the world would this not matter? I think that we have to look and determine if they knew what they were doing was wrong - I think they probably did. In the late Choson era unmarried boys were treated like children and suffered light punishments while married boys (legal age of marriage was 14 but could be 12 if the boy was acting as the head of the household) were punished to the full extent of the law. Are these high school boys less competent than the boys of Choson period?
United States has the same problem - what age is a child? If we can send them to war at 17 are they men/women? If so, why can’t they drink or vote? We entrust them to drive at the age of 15 1/2, the potential damage they can do with a vehicle is surreal, but we trust them because we know they are responsible. If one of them commits a crime at 15 like murder - should he be punished as an adult? What if he is 12? Britain is reviewing its age of consent - I think it is 15 or 16 now - does that mean they are adults?
If a group of 30 year old men raped 5 girls (lets not make it girls - lets make it women in the late 20s) would we sentence them to jail, even though we know that it will leave a lasting criminal record on their otherwise spotless clean records? Some of them are even married and have their own children - does it matter to you when you are deciding if they should go to jail or not?
What is the purpose of jail? I don’t believe it is there to rehabilitate, I believe it is there for punishment. A crime was committed, but by whom?
Were these innocent children that committed a crime out of harmless adoloscent curiosity, were they just being boys? Or, are the alleged assailants young adults who, if allowed to skip by with a slight slap on the wrist, will continue to prey upon society in one form or another?
Finally, if one of them was your daughter what would you want to do?
“Finally, if one of them was your daughter what would you want to do?”
Critically important question. In order to help our children we must answer it. In order to answer it we must ask: why are kids raping kids stories in the news when they were unheard of 20, 40, 60 years ago? Better reporting is probably an answer, and I also think every generation has its share of depraved people - but theres a deeper question of morality here.
When I was a kid, crazy sexaul escapades werent even imagined. There has been a cultural shift for the worse, powered by the rise of internet porn, increasingly whorish female role models (britney spears?), and probably a whole lot of other things.
Now, before you accuse me of being a Fascist or a Censor, I want to just say that I am only pointing to a problem - not offering dystopian solutions to it. However, it is undeiable that something has shifted for the worse, and that shift is leading to an increase in ugly incidents like this one in the US, Korea, and a lot of other places too.
robert,
As for what I think of rapists. I recall almost a year ago a guy was caught on video grabbing a girl. Later, they found her body behind a church. Well, for me, that guy should be put to death. He lost every single right as human being. He is no different than an animal.
So the issue in this case is NOT what I think, but rather what Koreans think. This IS their country, not mine, not yours. Especially down in the provinces, the Law is a very flexible thing, and it is so for a good reason. Not because Koreans have Keystone Cops, but because they know that context of each case is different. Laws down there, it seems to me, are not metaphysical abstractions (as they are in the West). In a land where harmony and hierarchy is prefered over abstract ?€œright and wrong?€? you can?€™t apply the same rules to every case. Is it in the best interest of Miriyang to tear 70 kids from their parents for 10 years? Who said they?€™d get off with a slap on the wrist? I?€™ll bet there was plenty of shame to go around. For a Korean, that is no slap.
Is the Korean system open for abuse? Perhaps we saw it in the GI case, but that doesn?€™t mean it is the wrong system or that Koreans are in the Dark Ages. This is why I saw ?€œBluejives?€? get so burned. One example of the cops dropping the ball, coupled with someones personal observation and Koreans are painted like backwards idiots?€“who need our civil guidance. That is prejudice, and it goes both ways.
Whether my numbers are inflated or not is also beside the point. It is worth repeating: American women cannot walk alone at night?€“-enough said.
aletheia, perhaps the mistake was mine in writing you. The “you” was meant as the reader - not specifically you, so that is my mistake - lack of clarity.
I have lived in Korea half of my life so I have some understanding of this ’shame’ that you speak of, and I agree that it is powerful.
However - I think you are missing a very important thing - and it is evident in your writing “kids.”
I gave you examples, using Korean history, about what a kid is or isn’t. Are these kids? How old are they? Third year (seniors) would mean they are maybe 18 years old. Are they children? Define for me what you believe a child is. What do Koreans believe a child is?
As to women being unable to walk the streets at night. I agree with you, hell, in the United States I don’t walk the streets at night. But I am sure that you could say the same for many countries. In fact, lets speak about Korea. Do you know that during the Choson period there was a curfew from 8 p.m.(winter) 9 p.m. (summer) until 1 in the morning that men were not allowed on the streets, only women (exception being blind men, court officials and people going for medication). Crimes against women were often committed during this time. There were a number of rapes.
To get to your point about this being Korea - yes, this is Korea, and it is Korea’s responsibility and right to deal with this in its own way. I don’t believe anyone has questioned that. If we go by what you say - then the mob mentality that is showing itself on the internet in which people (Koreans) want to go down and lynch the boys is perfectly correct and justified. Will you agree with that? Personally, I have no problem with it - it is purely a Korean internal problem. I don’t think it would be beneficial to Korea to resort to or allow this type of justice to go into effect (something like Mexico is doing now with vigilante justice), but it is Korea’s right.
In the late Choson period - if a girl/woman was seen or touched by a stranger (Korean or foreign) then the girl could be killed by her father or brothers for bringing shame to the family. Women were segregated and kept to the rear of the house, unseen, by the outside world. If a man was going to repair his house then he notified his neighbors so that they could keep their women inside - out of side. There was a Korean that worked for the French Legation in 1886 (I have to check the date - but I think it was 1886) - he was probably a young man - probably no more than mid-twenties. He was caught peeking over the wall of a nobleman’s estate into the women’s compound. The nobleman wanted to have him severely punished (death?) but the French minister intervened.
Why did these students commit this crime? Did they do it because they were “just boys being boys?” Did they do it out of peer pressure and the fear of becoming Wangtta if they did not participate? We know that peer pressure in Korea is very powerful but how powerful is it? Does it justify criminal acts? These should be some of the questions people are asking themselves.
Please understand - I am not advocating anything. I don’t know how these students should be punished. I agree with you that an arrest will damage them their whole life, but so will the shame that you mention. Isn’t one of the purposes of the penal system to protect society - is society protected by having them back on the streets? Allowing them back on the streets, will they have the opportunity to exact the revenge that they have sworn to have on their victims? Does placing them in jail serve a purpose? Should they be given to the mob and allow mob-justice? How about mental institutes? Did the acts they performed indicate mental health problems? Should they be hospitalized - and if so, for how long?
If they are allowed to return to school will they be able to adjust or will they be shunned by their peers? Will they be welcomed back as if they were conquering heroes?
What about the girls? What about their freedom, their right to see justice done? Speaking of the girls - do we know their full stories? As ass-like as it might sound - what is their responsibility (at least the first girl) in this incident? There are always two sides to a story and so far we have only heard theirs (partially).
As to the key-stone cop reference - I don’t believe I made that reference. Everything that I mentioned in my article came from the local Korean newspapers - English and Korean language. Are you suggesting that it is ok for them to print the facts about the policemen and their actions, but for a non-Korean that is racism? Take everything and evaluate it, and balance it.
Finally, “harmony and hierarchy is prefered over abstract ?€œright and wrong?€?” What exactly do you mean by this? The Land of the Morning Calm is not exactly a fitting name for the late Choson period. Look into it - I am sure that you will eventually have to agree. But to be honest, every country is the same - violence, dishonesty, and constant change.
aletheia
One more thing - where do you come up with the age 16? From my understanding a great number of these students were ?³?3 (seniors - February is graduation month) and that means they are not 16 but are 17 or 18 years old. I could be wrong.
“I am thankful for all those who take the time to comment on this site ?€“ but I think this incident does raise questions that could be addressed, but given the obvious sensitivity of the matter at hand, I?€™d prefer if the discussion went in a slightly more level-headed direction.”
THANK YOU, Marmot.
Robert Neff, take a real good look at some of the comments that you and your colleagues have written.
I was always a bit suspicious when the Korean media put Yonsama from Winter Sonata forward as the prime example of the modern-day Korean male, but now I?€™m a believer!
…
Never again will I argue with the Japanese housewives in my neighborhood when they regale me with tales of the dead-accurate depiction of Korean men in that wonderfully realistic drama. So true. So true.
- hanminjoke
“Alethia?€™s ?€œstatistics?€? look pretty familiar ?€“ they seem to have come from the same ?€œwomen?€™s studies?€? cabal that infested our law school. God, what a bunch of totalitarian pinheads.”
“It?€™s in this last area that Korea?€™s patriarchy tragically lets its daughters down. ”
- Brenden Carr
“Marmot I am glad you finally did this article - I was a little disappointed Sunday when I didn?€™t see it on your Blog.
…
It is nice to know there are some things in the Land of the Morning Calm I know will never change”
-You
First of all, what the hell does Yonsama and the Winter Sonata have to do with this?
Secondly, why is it that when a heinous sexist crime occurs in Korea, it is attributed to ‘Korea’s patriarchy letting its daughters down’ but when someone mentions the equally disturbing sex crime statistics of the US, it gets dismissed as the work of overzealous feminists??? Hmmmm, do I sense a bit of double standard bordering on hypocrisy here?
And then there’s you robertneff. Disappointed? Why? Because you thought you would miss out on a chance to detail all the dirty little secrets you’ve discovered in Korea? What a busybody you are. Frankly, I am not obesessed with rapes, or the hormonal-driven interactions of adolescents in internet rooms, orgies, or what goes on in certain kinds or ‘meetings’. But I suppose your unique tastes may run different.What you choose to do with your free time is your business.
Although I find it real strange that self-styled social commentators like yourself, are suddenly SO concerned about sexism and ‘justice for women’ while in Korea, when in all likelihood you didnt give a damn about such things back when you were just another ordinary white dude back in the States.
You dont like it when I call you a self-righteous ‘enlightened’ finger-pointing whitey with all the connotations entailed with that, correct?
You are outraged about what happened in Miryang? I am outraged because Korea is my Mother country and the stupid cops seem to have fucked up and whenever it seems there is a possibility of a miscarriage of justice, I get anxious. Tell me something, not just you, but all the usual suspects that I’ve called out. Were you equally outraged back when white cops violated the rights and human dignity of a certain African immigrant named Abner Louima by shoving broomsticks up his rectum? Are you equally outraged by racial profiling that is practiced by white cops back here in the good ole US of A?
I thought so.
Spare me all your little snotty snide remarks and sarcastic comments about Korea OK? I love my Mother Country and its people and I will not let such remarks slide by so easily.
Well - in response to your comments bluejives:
“Were you equally outraged back when white cops violated the rights and human dignity of a certain African immigrant named Abner Louima by shoving broomsticks up his rectum?”
Absolutely - just as I was shocked and in total disgust over the dragging/murder in Texas of an American by a group of white racist. There are so many of these incidents that it is nearly impossible to count. Does it happen in the United States - damn right, and we know that it happens around the world in every country including your motherland.
Am I angered by racial profiling - sure, and we have already discussed this issue in another area of the board.
I do find it hard to imagine that you are calling me a racist when we examine your language.
Lets see - when I was just an ordinary white guy back in the United States - did I care? I was 17 or 18 years old. I think I cared just as much as the other person. See, I did one thing that I always wanted to do as a child - I went and visited different countries and learned about different cultures. Don’t always agree with them (the cultures) but that is not really my concern. I take from them what I want (meaning cultures) and add them to my own - that is what makes the USA special - the mixture of cultures that come to form our own.
You said “Frankly, I am not obesessed with rapes, or the hormonal-driven interactions of adolescents in internet rooms, orgies, or what goes on in certain kinds or ?€?meetings?€™.” Don’t you think that is part of the problem - people aren’t concerned. So many of the problems that we are facing in the United States, Japan, and Korea is because people aren’t concerned. Where do you fall in this at?
As to the disappointment about this not being posted. May I remind you that Marmot’s Hole is one of the largest and most read Blogs on Korea - it would be a shame not to have an issue that is so hot in Korea right now not on the Blog for people to read who have an interest in Korea. Are you advocating that we (Marmot or any other Blogger) not post it because it shows a negative event within Korea? Sounds a little hipocritical doesn’t it?
I wrote
“It is nice to know there are some things in the Land of the Morning Calm I know will never change.?€?
Well considering the first incident that I mentioned happened about ten years ago and the Korean court system seems to have maintained the same system - I would say that it was a fair (somewhat cynical) statement. It is pretty much the same type of thing that I see in the late 1890s in Choson (Korea), can you dispute this?
As to the case of Abner Louima, would you have been offended if I said that the brutality of some of the members of the police force towards African immigrants is nothing more than a step backwards to an era before the civil war? I don’t think it would - and to be honest, I think it does seem like that, especially if justice wasn’t done. The policemen who did that were animals that deserved to be punished, more severely than a normal person because they violated the trust that was given to them by the people.
As to my “colleagues,” their comments are their own. I don’t always agree with them, some I don’t understand, while others I do.
I will say this though - racial slurs usually are an indication of the man/woman: closed minded, childish and immature, insecure, and in many cases uneducated.
As always - wishing you the best in your own SMALL little world.
Robert Neff
Bluejives -
Other than the fact that I am white I am unsure why you and I are arguing - looking back at this post
“When I was in Korea, in Miryang 10 years ago, this sort of event would have been unheard of. And what?€™s with this pissing contest about who has a worse record in rape statistics? Unreported rape doesn?€™t happen in the US as well? My current girlfriend, a girl who grew up in South Jersey, was raped by some strange psycho she met at a beach back in high school. Guess what? She and her friends didnt report it to the police despite the fact that he was threatening them. Rape is a very tricky. Another thing, when her parents found out, her parents, especially her father, treated it as if it was her fault that it happened.”
I can’t disagree with a word you said. 10 years ago I don’t believe this type of incident would have happened - in fact 10 years ago I thought Korean students were the nicest kids in the world - innocent in everything they did.
Rape - very tricky thing. I know from family experience and not all rapes are reported - partially for the reason you said. The victim is thought to have brought it onto themselves. Isn’t that the problem with this incident too, the police officer said that she basically brought it on to herself.
Other than being white - I think we are basically on the same sheet of the music at least part of the time.
Again wishing you the best
Robert Neff
Robert Neff, I highly doubt that VoiceofCorea is Korean.
Mr Neff comment: “…if a girl/woman was seen or touched by a stranger (Korean or foreign) then the girl could be killed by her father or brothers for bringing shame to the family.”
Hmmm. You learn something new every day.
I know that Hamel (the 17th century one) claims to know something about that in his book but I’m wondering what you mean by “could be.” Do you mean to say that it was legal, that it it was something that might happen as a possibility, that a westerner claimed that it was widespread, or something else?
The “memoir” Ten Thousand Sorrows claimed that “honor killings” of that sort were a time-honored regular part of Korean culture, but the author and publisher backtracked on that assertion after an international online outcry from Korean studies scholars around the world, most of whom claimed that while it was certainly possible a woman might be killed for hurting her family’s reputation through improper sexual activity, it was by no means common practice or widely accepted.
Any suggestion that death was a constant possibility for merely being “seen or touched by a stranger” would seem utterly absurd to me. Everything is always “possible,” however, so I guess it comes down to what you mean by “could.”
backpedaled, not backtracked in:
the author and publisher backtracked on that assertion after an international online outcry from Korean studies scholars around the world,
Sorry.
1) “Marmot, why can?€™t we edit our previews?
After I click preview, and try to edit and preview again, I get a blank screen. Is it my browser (Mozilla)? –Comment by kimbob”
Kimbob: same thing happens to me, even though I type in the number letter combo. (I use an old AOL version — whatever browser is standard with 7.0).
2) “When I was a kid, crazy sexual escapades weren’t even imagined. There has been a cultural shift for the worse, powered by the rise of internet porn, increasingly whorish female role models (britney spears?), and probably a whole lot of other things. — Comment by BP1403″.
Amen. These kids are no doubt inspired by what they have learned from the internet and easily obtained videos. I think you can thank Hugh Hefner and the Playboy philosophy. The ramifications of what he started have gone worldwide (and far beyond) what he ever imagined it would. He’s proud of his accomplishments, of course, and sits in his mansion with his “stable”, shaking his head ruefully over how things have developed. He won’t take responsibility for incidents like this, but if he were privy to this discussion he would no doubt be quite philosophic about it as he calmly puffs his pipe.
I think my point is supported by a trend in this thread — the US vs ROK comparison. No one has even mentioned another possible sociological comparison — ROK to a comparable slice of “normal” NorK society, i.e. NorK citizens in reasonably good health and standing with their government. (I exempt rural starving peasants or inhabitants of the NorK “gulag” — rape is probably the least of their worries).
I ask out of genuine curiosity to see what you Korea-experienced posters and residents think — not as a “snarky white guy” trying to make a point. Do you suppose incidents like this Miryang one could ever happen in a similar type community in NorK, one that’s basically cut off from Western influences?
Oranckay -
I believe that it was Dallet - which would mean that he was using the French and Japanese sources. I will have to recheck it. If you want I can post the source here or email it to you. I don’t believe that it was a law per-se, and I am not sure how prevalent it was, I do know that it is mentioned. I think Huntley also mentions it in her book, but she uses primarily missionary accounts. To be honest - I am not sure how often it happened. I know that I read an account in the 1890s that in a fire a maid did not save her mistress because a fireman had inadvertantly touched her (the mistress) and that she was no longer worth saving because of that touch.
As to the point about the North Koreans by Paul. Good point but looking at the Soviet Union there were many sex crimes including that cannibal. I am not sure that the open Western culture is without some blame but I also believe that this excuse has been used over and over. Remember the young man that studied in the United States and gambled and partied all of his money away and returned to Korea and murdered and then burned his parents - he said he learned it on tv and the Korean media harped on it for quite sometime. I think that is one of our (meaning all countries) big problems - people trying to shift the blame, claiming it was this or that that caused them to do something. These 18 year olds need to be punished.
dbc - I am not sure if VoiceofCorea is Korean or not. You can check out the posting on the Korea Times page. To be honest I hope VoiceofCorea is not Korean but instead that same idiot that posted the obscene comment about the young woman’s article (grandmother’s gloves). I wish that people were required to stand behind their comments - like I always say - if it is worth your time to type it out - claim it.
” The victim is thought to have brought it onto themselves. Isn?€™t that the problem with this incident too, the police officer said that she basically brought it on to herself.” - neff103
Ah.. but that’s one person’s lack of education. The public outcry shows it’s not a publicly accepted form of practice to blame the rape victim. For anything, it just shows lack of sensitivity and lack of training within the police department(s) regarding sexual crimes and female sexual victims. Also, try to look at where this policeman is coming from. I’m not saying what he said was right, but I can see where his conclusions about the girls gets generated.
The raped girls were reported to have been raped for over a year. Not only they did not report the abuses, they reportedly voluntarily called the boys up for “dates”. How is that possible? If they were suffering much abuse, would the girls not have reported the abuses much sooner? Of course I’m not saying that this is true at all, merely saying that there is another possiblity and another side of the story that may exist - that these girls were part of the gang, enjoying being part of the “crowd”, and cried foul when they got caught, trying to advert accusations that they were sluts (this, in a society that have tremendous prejudices against “loose” women).
Kimbob - wish you had added this part of my quote to the above -
“As ass-like as it might sound - what is their responsibility (at least the first girl) in this incident? There are always two sides to a story and so far we have only heard theirs (partially).”
bluejives: Were you equally outraged back when white cops violated the rights and human dignity of a certain African immigrant named Abner Louima by shoving broomsticks up his rectum?
But of course. Note I’m not the only person outraged - the rest of New York City also was, such that (1) the *illegal* black immigrant Abner Louima not only did not get deported, he received millions of dollars as a settlement from the city and (2) the people responsible received more than a decade in jail. If the victims in these rapes had been illegal black immigrants, would they have received millions of dollars, combined with jail sentences for the Korean perpetrators? Or would they have been quietly deported?
Could Bluejives be the latest avatar of Shin Jong Il? I see scarily similar logic, hang-ups and hatreds.
robertneff103,
I’m not out to pick on you simply for the sake of picking on you. Remember that hilarious piece you wrote at the expense of some obnoxious freeloading Korean ajuma in the airplane you wrote a while back? The one that you and other fellow like-minded white expats had a collective chuckle over? It’s so easy for Westerners from the land of plenty to ridicule the idiosyncratic behavior of those of lesser developed nations for whom the memories of poverty and hunger still stings like it was yesterday. If it was wrong of me to criticize you for the ajuma story then I suppose you wouldnt mind if I wrote a juicy satire about the self-righteous, self-important white expat who comes to Korea to teach English to escape his loser existence back home. Oh what’s that? You dont think that would be funny? Oh why not? Satire and parody works best when used against those with a certain sense of entitlement, priviledge, and self righteous importance based upon universally understood racial power dynamics.
Wishing YOU the best in your white-centric, one-sided world.
Proposition 1 - All white people are bad, or tend to be bad.
Proposition 2 - All expats are white.
Proposition 3 - Expats come from the US.
Proposition 4 - All expats in Korea are stupid.
Therefore, white people in Korea are both stupid and bad. There is no possible way they could comprehend anything about Korea. Accordingly, no expat may criticize any aspect of Korea in any way.
A consistent refrain among certain people comes in response to (assumed) expat criticism of or commentary on Korea. It runs something like this:
“Well, you obviously hate Korea, so why don’t you just leave? Go back to sleeping under a bridge in the US!”
So bluejives, you say “I love my Mother Country and its people…” I’d like to ask then, in the spirit of your own commentary, why you’re not there? You’d run into far fewer “Caucasians,” that’s for sure.
hey, let me explain something very basic to you, ok? if something like a serial rape happened in the US, i dont go around blaming it upon the ‘patriarchy’ and ‘male chauvinism’ of US white male, aight? the Columbine school massacre, i dont go around implying that it was due to some intrinsic fault of the American system, to which ALL Americans are beholden to, and therefore guilty by association. the Jeffery Dahmer serial killer case, I dont go around implying that since Dahmer is of German-American heritage, that there must be something seriously fucked up about German-Americans in general. Aight? White people enjoy the priviledge of individuality in loads and bounds. If one of them commits a serious crime, then it is that person and that individual only who is responsible for that crime. White people as a whole arent held accountable for the acts of that one crazy individual. On the other hand, if an asian or any other minority commits some kind of crime, then somehow its a reflection on asians as a whole. Do you understand this sociological phenomenon which is a real and proven fact in society? Or is it too complex and subtle for you, Because if it is then please refrain from issuing more ignorant statements.
bluejives, i’m sure i would laugh just as much at your story about a pathetic whitey teaching in korea as i would about some freeloading ajuma - please, write it!
other than that, be careful or you will start walking with a limp because of such a heavy chip on your shoulder.
now this case really stinks of shit in general. the boys - find the leaders and punish them with jail - the rest should have to pay financially crippling amounts of money to the girls families. the cops should lose their jobs instead of just being transferred.
but what if the girls really were calling up the boys during the year and meeting them voluntarily? it wouldn’t be the first time someone lied about rape.
bluejives, i?€™m sure i would laugh just as much at your story about a pathetic whitey teaching in korea as i would about some freeloading ajuma - please, write it!
Hey, that’s what I got my “Stupid Foreigners Tricks” section for!
Leftist sociological constructs are not “real and proven facts”, sorry.
“What?€™s ?€œbackward when it comes to the treatment of women?€? is when a woman cannot walk down the street alone at night.”
aletheia, that is what is known as a “red herring” argument - throwing an irrelevent assertion to divert attention from the real issue.
Secondly, it is an example of a “sweeping assumption” which bases a generalization on a faulty or limited sample. It is not in fact true that a woman cannot walk alone down the street at night in the US. Even if this is true of certain areas of a country, it cannot be used to characterize an entire nation.
There is crime throughout the world. Numerous cultural and environmental factors can render it meaningless to compare crime rates in different parts of the world. Human nature is human nature.
The effects of culture, however, might be noted. For instance, the fact that 41 to 70 boys were involved here might lead one to comment on how koreans act as groups rather than individuals, and so forth. However, to use such miserable examples of human behavior as fodder for triumphalism and jingoism would be improper.
“Do you suppose incidents like this Miryang one could ever happen in a similar type community in NorK, one that?€™s basically cut off from Western influences?”
Paul, rape has occurred with great frequency in societies basically cut off from Western influences, imperial Japan being a case in point. There are serious problems with the foreign cultural influence myth, not the least of which is that it tends to scapegoat others for our crimes.
Another misnomer - Korea is far from “Westernized” despite its piecemeal adoptation of overseas cultural elements. There is an important distinction between Korean benchmarking and reverse engineering and “Westernization”. Koreans still have very little direct exposure to Western culture. Few Koreans have any significant experience interacting with foreigners, including Korean emmigrants living in Korean communities overseas.
One has to stop making meaningless East vs. West comparisons here in order to deal with the issues themselves.
Interesting discussion guys but i’m going to try to vere it in a different direction.
It’s been noted a few times about the Police and their apparent proficiency at screwing up. When it comes to a rape case it seems that they did everything wrong. I am told “they did not follow proceedures” and that they knew what they should do but simply ignored it.
I remember more than a few instances where I have been baffled by police actions (and yes AT HOME TOO). Do you guys remember the cop killer that was hiding out in the grandmothers Apt. last year? How the cops came in a blazin’ and ringing bells?? Man, I heard the promisses of refor and regret but I reallt wonder, has anything changed?
I know this was a “provincial town” and maybe doesn’t represent the best the naion has to offer in was of policing but seriously, what are they going to do about it?
i really hope that this spurs on some type of reform within the greater korean police administration. I would like to see a day where Korean police officers are respected for a job well done.
“White people as a whole arent held accountable for the acts of that one crazy individual. On the other hand, if an asian or any other minority commits some kind of crime, then somehow its a reflection on asians as a whole.”
It seems you are being overly sensitive here. No one is suggesting that a person’s race is the cause of crime here. Nor is a double standard bordering on hypocrisy being advocated. My analysis is that what is being voiced here is simply backlash against the Korean media’s consistent pro-Korean “minjok” bias.
I certainly understand how hurtrul such ineloquent expressions of frustration can be, however.
?€œWhite people enjoy the priviledge of individuality in loads and bounds. If one of them commits a serious crime, then it is that person and that individual only who is responsible for that crime. White people as a whole arent held accountable for the acts of that one crazy individual. On the other hand, if an asian or any other minority commits some kind of crime, then somehow its a reflection on asians as a whole?€?
Mssr Bluejives, as I read this I felt this deep sense of understanding?€?and suddenly I realized why! Dude, over here it is just the same, except with the skin colors reversed! To the average Mr. Choi, a rowdy drunken Korean is a ?€œcrazy man”, but a rowdy drunken non-Korean is living proof of the violent and degraded nature of blacks or whites.
Another snark: it?€™s kind of a joke you fancying that you stand in proud allegiance with the blacks of America. Cause I know lots of them, bud, and they CAN?€™T STAND YOU more than they dislike guys like me (European). And my black buddies over here have the worst stories of us all, and would love to bump into the type of ?€?angry Korean male?€™ that you represent and who torments them here on an almost daily basis.
That said, I agree with the core of what you are saying: this is a small town crime mini-tragedy, and shouldn?€™t be overplayed into a grand national indictment of evil. The outcry of the Korean public should really be more acknowledged on this board.
Robert Neff: I appreciate your comments. Peace.
How is it that the comments section inevitably degrades into a US vs. Korea arguement? I think its plain to anyone that the Korean justice system and police blame the victims and go easy on rapists (oh, excuse me, accused rapists).
Anyhow- hope you guys are enjoying yourselves. I can’t believe I am actually still interested in blogs and news whilst in Iraq. *sigh*
Koreans still have very little direct exposure to Western culture. Few Koreans have any significant experience interacting with foreigners, including Korean emmigrants living in Korean communities overseas.
Do you own a television? Television is one very direct, very powerful interaction with Western culture — a “hot beef injection”, if you will, of Western (specifically, American coastal elites’) values directly into the brains of viewers. Every Korean with a television gets exposed to our culture on a pretty regular basis. On cable, most of the shows aren’t even dubbed into Korean — it’s English-language audio (sometimes German) with subtitles.
“Do you own a television? Television is one very direct, very powerful interaction with Western culture ?€“ a ?€œhot beef injection”, if you will, of Western (specifically, American coastal elites?€™) values directly into the brains of viewers.”
Hollywood and TV project elaborate fantasy - highly controlled and unrealistic scenarios.
I asked a Korean friend, for instance, if he thought all American women were like the protagonists in “Sex and the City”. His response was, “Aren’t they?”
The point is that Koreans often judge Americans by highly controlled depictions obtained from the media - Korean and American - which has much to do with stereotypes, wishful dreamscapes, false values but little to do with the day-to-day reality of ordinary life. The expression “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing” warns about the dangers of the “hasty generalization” - drawing conclusions from unrepresentative, even distorted samples.
One interesting treatment of this phenomenon was the book “Being There” by Jerzy Kozinski, which depicts a character who was raised in seclusion, watching TV rather than interacting with other human beings. A total idiot, het was mistaken for a savant because he could parrot soundbites.
bluejives, your capacity for exaggeration is really fantastic. how did you get that there are “pick up trucks sporting big bumper stickers” when the true quote was, “the area where the six slain hunters lived, one woman said she saw a bumper sticker that read: “Save a deer, shoot a Hmong.” how do know it wasn’t small and on the back of a kia?
AMERICANS ANNOYED BY “ALL THIS INTERNATIONAL SHIT” ON INTERNET
Web’s Increasingly Worldly Flavor Threatens Americans’ Worldview
PULLMAN, WASH ?€” The profusion of international news available on the Internet has made it increasingly difficult for the average American to ignore the rest of the world, a trend researchers say threatens Americans’ long, proud history of disregarding anything not about them.
“With all the foreign newspapers and multi-cultural sites, the Internet is making it almost impossible for the average American to remain uninformed and apathetic,” said Samantha Lessborn of Washington State University, which conducted the survey. “Americans can still do it. But it now takes effort, whereas before it was as easy as turning off Tom Brokaw whenever he said ‘In South Korea today…’”
According to survey participant Danny Grisham, a 22-year-old from Cheyenne, Wyoming, it’s not just the plethora of international news on the Web that is irritating. “Look, I can get around the news. I just turn off Reuters headlines in MyYahoo,” he said. “But even some of the search sites like Yahoo and Alta Vista are available in different languages. Like everybody in the world doesn’t speak English. Yeah, right.”
“I can see where it’s important if we’re, like, beating some country in the Olympics or bombing them or, ideally, both,” Grisham added. “But if some Colombian drug lord sinks a ferry full of Israeli soldiers in North Latvoania or Serbo-Malaysia, or wherever, and Americans aren’t involved, what has that got to do with me?”
Other respondents said they were appalled, not just by the availability of non-U.S. news, but by the way important U.S. news is reported by some of these foreign sites. “Yesterday, for instance, the St. Louis Rams beat the Atlanta Falcons, OK, and I go to the London Times site and it’s not even there,” said Chip Pernadge of Kansas City, Mo. “Jesus, no wonder those guys lost the war and had to give Hong Kong back to Canada.”
Sensing a market opportunity, Net Nanny, makers of Net Nanny filtering software, announced this week it will introduce NetNarrow, an English-only product that automatically filters out content that appears to be international. Specifically, the software looks for world datelines and keywords indicative of irrelevant foreign stories, including “Shiite,” “post-Apartheid,” and “Bob Geldof.”
Survey-taker Craig Barker of Brooklyn, New York, said he will be among the first to get NetNarrow. “On the Web, there are so many ways to get news from so many different places, I could really get some fresh insights into what’s going on in other countries if I wanted to,” he said.. “But I don’t want to.”
“You’d think these Internet people would know that,” Barker added. “I mean, that’s why the Internet is called America Online, right? It’s supposed to be about America.”
Leftist sociological constructs are not ?€œreal and proven facts”, sorry.
Comment by dogbert
Do you know who the Hmong people are? Probably not. The Hmong are a group of people from Laos that the US government enlisted during the Vietnam War to wage guerilla warfare against the Vietcong. There is currently a community of about 20,000 Hmong living in Wisconsin and Minnesota.