Brian, Joseph and the Nomad all discuss the Chosun’s whine about the ABC program “Lost,” which my employer feels makes Korean men look bad. Not having seen the show, and hence totally unqualified to pass comment on it, I don’t really know what to say, but stuff like this just doesn’t sound good:
“I don’t know what it’s like where you live in Iraq, but where I live in the United States, Koreans hate black people.” This is a line from the popular ABC drama, “Lost,” which tells the story of 14 people marooned on a desert island.
Staring actress Kim Yoon-jin, who has gained popularity for her role in the blockbuster movie “Shiri,” the drama is being criticized for painting a hugely distorted picture of Koreans. There is concern that the erratic behavior of Jin (played by Daniel Dae Kim), who plays the husband of Sun (played by Kim Yu-jin), may become a universal stereotype of Korean men for American viewers.
Jin, a Korean who cannot speak any English, is painted as a patriarchal and conservative character. Most Korean viewers who have seen the show reject the two-dimensional characterization as either ridiculous or mammothly anachronistic.
Like I said, I’m not really in a position to say much as my lack of first-hand experience with the show doesn’t allow me to judge whether the Chosun’s account is accurate. The show does sound rather insensitive, though. Infuriatingly so, actually.
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I don’t know where you’re from Zhang Fei and hanminjok, but have you even been to Korea? I ask this because it’s hard to believe that anyone would complain how Korean women are not allowed to dress sexy by the Korean men. Yeah I guess they all walk around in Muslim cloaks. bull shit.
haven’t seen the show but i have lived in korea for a long time and your adjectives:
conservative
patriarchal
anachronistic
all apply to korean society on the whole.
furthermore, it’s naive to imply that racism isn’t engrained into korean society. where i worked, black people and people of colour people simply weren’t hired.
intelligent and multilingual people of colour are often forced to work selling trinkets on the side of the road in order to supplement their meagre factory incomes.
let’s just be honest with ourselves… and let koreans be honest with themselves too.
Well I have been reading around some fan sites because this article made me interested and in each episode it gives a back story for each character. Apparently the Korean guy was really nice until he married his wife whose family had ties to the mafia. That association he was forced to make with her father hardened and changed him. They give reasons for the way he is the way he is so it’s not outright “Korean Men Are This Way” type nonsense. It’s just like when you reported on the radio editing of arirang a little while back, they just don’t want ANYTHING negative portrayed to the world.
Such is the danger of begging the world to shine its spotlight on your 5000 years of greatness: Sometimes the pimples reflect all the light.
Being a fan of “Lost” since ep1 and having lived in Korea for a couple years, I can say without hesitation that the depiction of the Korean couple is dead spot on. It only qualifies as a “hugely distorted picture” if your standard for all portrayals of Koreans comes directly from the Korea National Tourism Organization and you expect Yonsama is the bare minimum you should have to tolerate.
The particulars:
[I don't know what it's like where you live in Iraq, but where I live in the United States, Koreans hate black people.]
In context, this line came from the cast’s main black actor, AFTER he had been blindsided and beaten to the edge of death by the Korean man for no apparent reason. More to the point, the black guy is from LA, and his statement is a given in La La Land among a majority of the black community. The history of black-Korean relations in Los Angeles makes this a perfectly reasonable statement given the situation. Oh, and it turns out, the reason Jin beat the shit out of the black character was because he thought that he stole his father’s watch. A $20,000 Rolex.
[There is concern that the erratic behavior of Jin, who plays the husband of Sun, may become a universal stereotype of Korean men for American viewers.]
Two funny things about this statement. One, that Koreans assume Americans will use a television portrayal as a “universal stereotype.” Having listened to numerous Korean adult students of mine seriously ask me if “all blacks in America carry machine guns,” I realize that Tv and film IS the real world for most Koreans, but to assume that Americans give it the same weight is patently ridiculous. Two, the behavior of Jin is a perfectly realistic portrayal of a Korean man of his age and background, BECAUSE it’s erratic. He’s sexist, has a temper, over-protective, suspicious of whitey, and treats his wife like property. In other words, real.
[Jin, a Korean who cannot speak any English, is painted as a patriarchal and conservative character. Most Korean viewers who have seen the show reject the two-dimensional characterization as either ridiculous or mammothly anachronistic.]
A mid-30’s Kyungsando man who’s patriarchal and conservative? Not a chance. And most Korean viewers “reject” that characterization? Shocking. If you’ve been paying attention, most Koreans “reject” the notion that Korea is not the Hub of Asia, as well as “rejecting” the idea of North Korean gulags, and “reject” the fact that any other country on earth has four seasons, along with “rejecting” anyone who dare claim that hangul is not the universe’s most perfect and scientific language, and I could go on for days.
Koreans tend to “reject” anything that does not show them in anything but a glaringly positive light, and this has become a knee-jerk reaction in the Hub of Insecurity. Reality is routinely rejected because it doesn’t mesh with hanminjok, so you’ll excuse me if this “rejection” bears little weight with me.
[In one scene, as soon as another foreign survivor speaks to his wife, who has opened the last button on her sweater, Jin points to her cardigan and yells at her to button it up. When his wife wears a sleeveless T-shirt, Jin tells her it is too conspicuous.]
And you’re telling me that a Korean man with a hot-ass wife, stuck on an island with dozens of foreign men — otherwise known as THE DEVIL — wouldn’t act exactly in this manner? No really, that’s your argument?
[Twenty-two-year-old Song Ju-yeong, who hasn't missed an episode since "Lost" was first screened, said, "As this is a drama seen by many Americans, I wish the Koreans could have been good characters.]
This is actually honest. She wishes it could have been a “good” Korean, as opposed to an average Korean. Sorry honey, but there are plenty of assholes on the show, of all nationalities. In fact, the biggest asshole is a slime-bucket used-car salesman American man. Where’s the outrage over that portrayal?
[Jin's personality is so exaggerated that one has to wonder if such a Korean man actually exists.]
One doesn’t need to wonder. One just needs to look around.
This entire episode reminds of an interview I saw with Bill Cosby a few years back. He was asked about some Jesse Jackson comments regarding the negative portrayal of black’s on TV and in movies. Bill basically said “We as Black Americans need to work on getting the reality right before we worry about getting the fantasy right.”
Perhaps Koreans doth protest too much.
I hear the repeating theme:
?€œI don?€™t know what it?€™s like where you live in Iraq, but where I live in the United States, Koreans hate black people.?€?
Alright maybe. But is there any possiblity that black people hate Korean people? It’s only Koreans who hate black people. So they must be burned out, robbed, killed, and then top of that, put them on TV and show them how they hate black people. Look at the LA Riots of 1992. The sole reason why that happened was because of those damn hateful evil Koreans who hate black people. The white LA cops who beat Rodney King weren’t nearly as hateful as Koreans are. They were just doing their jobs beating down a dangerous black man.
Asian-American actors are still struggling to break out of character-roles such as Japanese-American brainiac nerds, Korean-American Manucurists who barely speak English (Seinfeld did a funny episode about them - Frank Kostanza’s Korean [played by a Filipino actress, I believe] love interest), emasculated Asian men, inscrutable Chinese gang member, etc.. I personally don’t watch ‘Lost’ - but it does sound like Jin may not be only two-dimensional character, which is a norm for made-for-tv prime time soap operas… I do agree with the first portion of Matt’s comments - Korea IS still a very much patriarchal culture, and will probably remain so for some years. I’d like to point out, however, many cultures are still that way - even here in the U.S., I’ve run into many rural conservative communities that, for most part, believe that men and women have separate roles. (Even my in-laws keep sending me recipes and encourage me to learn to cook because my husband does all the cooking and that doesn’t sit well with them.) And the racist comment - I do agree to a point that Koreans are extremely xenophobic, especially regarding non-white or non-Far East Asians. For most part, that’s due to 1) their views towards blacks mirror what they’ve learned from western cultures and 2) lack of exposure to non-white cultures. I remember my French instructor at Yonsei made blatantly racists comments regarding Africans and their facial features - as he was laughing, I walked out of his classroom and never went back. I also noticed that the rest of the class (all Koreans) frowned and shook their heads. So I will be honest with my culture - it is sometimes too insular and can often be ignorant of other cultures. I don’t think racism is ingrained in the whole society. And I don’t know what to make of the employment comments - are there that many black-Koreans who are unemployed? Or are the comments referring to non-Korean ‘people of color’ who randomly came to Korea to get a job? Does that happen often? Are these people even legally in Korea with a work visa?
May I point out that the mostly white dominated entertainment-media complex in the US tends to follow a certain pattern in portraying minorities of which this ‘Lost’ is a prime example. White people often forget that they enjoy the priviledge of being treated as individuals. For every white character that is ‘bad’ there are two or three others that are ‘good and decent’ as an offset. Minority people do not have this luxury. Furthermore, the minorities that are the most vulnerable in terms of numbers, representation, and political voice are the ones who are cast in the most unsavory ways. Furthermore, minority people suffer from what is known as the ‘perpetual foreigner syndrome’. Daniel Dae Kim is actually very American in real life, speaks English perfectly, whose Korean is actually quite broken, yet the producers intentionally chose to portray him as ‘no English speaky’ stereotype.
[But is there any possiblity that black people hate Korean people?]
If the characters were reversed, and it was the black guy who’d attacked the Korean guy without reason, and the Korean guy made the speech to the black guy saying “Where I live in the United States, blacks hate Koreans,” that would be a perfectly reasonable statement given the situation and circumstances. It runs both ways bob. Both ways.
[The white LA cops who beat Rodney King weren?€™t nearly as hateful as Koreans are. They were just doing their jobs beating down a dangerous black man.]
Tipping your hand a little there, aren’t you? Nice job confirming the stereotype that you’re railing against.
[For every white character that is ?€?bad?€™ there are two or three others that are ?€?good and decent?€™ as an offset. Minority people do not have this luxury.]
No offset, really? The Korean wife, who is one of the most likeable and positively portrayed on the whole show, looks an awful lot like an offset to me. So I assume what you want, is another Korean MAN as an offset. I’m sure you’re aching for a Yonsama type to offset that typical stone-age patriarch, right? Tough shit. There’s no affirmative action in Hollywood, nor should there be. TV shows are out to make money, not serve the KNTO. Whine all you want, but American television has a broader cross-section of minorities on TV and in film than any other country in the world. Ever seen British TV? How about other European countries with large minority populations? You try and find a higher standard. Try.
[Daniel Dae Kim is actually very American in real life, speaks English perfectly, whose Korean is actually quite broken, yet the producers intentionally chose to portray him as ?€?no English speaky?€™ stereotype.]
Are you trying to tell me that the producers of a FANTASY actually asked someone to PLAY A ROLE that wasn’t exactly the same as their REAL persona? Jesus. Next thing you know you’ll be telling me that Tom Hanks in real life isn’t actually the half-retard running machine that he played in Forrest Gump. Does that mean Jeremy Irons isn’t a pedophile like he played in Lolita? Tom Cruise isn’t actually a Samurai? Robert DeNiro isn’t a boxer?
Who gives a rat’s ass what Daniel Dae Kim is in real life! He’s an actor paid to play a role. Guess what? Nobody wants to watch the “real” Daniel Dae Kim. Otherwise he’d be on Survivor.
Wow.
“And you?€™re telling me that a Korean man with a hot-ass wife, stuck on an island with dozens of foreign men ?€“ otherwise known as THE DEVIL ?€“ wouldn?€™t act exactly in this manner? No really, that?€™s your argument?”
No, “Hanminjoke”, a normal Korean man (or any man for that matter) wouldn’t tell his wife to button up a loose button when it’s 40 degrees outside after a messy plane wreck. And why would any normal man would scream Korean to everyone, in an island full of non-Korean people, knowing full well nobody speaks Korean? Over the top is the only way I can describe it.
Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t disagree that Chosun is over-reacting with this article over just some stupid show.
come on robert. didn’t you post some racist korean cartoons here recently. one depicting kofi annan as a tribal african bushman complete with a bone in his nose? when blacks are portrayed on korean tv.. their dialogue consist of different variation of “ooga booga” complete with black face and fake afro.
koreans only complain when it is them that are the targets of derision. as far as i’m concerned, if the majority of koreans (or anyone for that matter) condone portraying black people in this manner, then they are racist (as a generalization) so the sterotype fits.
Daniel Dae Kim is actually very American in real life, speaks English perfectly, whose Korean is actually quite broken, yet the producers intentionally chose to portray him as ?€?no English speaky?€™ stereotype.
That’s bullshit. It’s a crummy character, I agree, but the producers of LOST didn’t decide “Let’s make Kim look like a no-speakee Engrish Korean!” The man is a professional ACTOR, who pursues roles as they exist. There’s no plot to make him look bad.
Michael, I agree with you for the most part, but I disagree with this:
“. The King beating just put a match to it. ”
In fact, it was the other way around. The King beating was the starting point, while the Korean woman being sentenced lightly by the white judge, topped it off. The real reason behind the rioting was the blacks in America feel disfranchised and discriminated against by the majority - the whites. It just happened that over seventy percent of the stores that were situated in black neighborhoods were Korean owned. Blacks thought of them as just another extention of the white institutions. It was only natural for them to go after the Korean owned stores.
Same thing happened to Jewish communities in LA decades before, when the Jews were burned out. Then the Koreans moved in, buying from the Jews. Right after the riots, somehow this got turned 180 degrees around in the American media as Blacks were portrayed having rightful grievances against bad Korean store owners who looked down on black people, treating them as criminals, not speaking the language, go home, blame it all on those inscrutable Koreans blah blah blah, when in fact, the dispute was caused by America’s not so peaceful race relations clearly shown by White America’s biased and discriminating justice system.
I haven’t seen the movie but let me guess what the plot around the Korean is. You have the beautiful Korean woman feeling trapped and wanting to get out of the relationship with an evil Asian gangster hubby who knows Kung Fu. She falls head over heals in love with a dashing American knight in shining armor as he rescues the woman from the terrible nerdy Kung Fu hubby who never got a kiss in his life from a woman. Predictable plot, don’t need to watch how it ends up.
Just kidding.
Hanminjoke I for one am anxiously awaiting your own blog. Kudos
Bobby–the store shooting happened before the King incident, but you’re pretty much right about the rest. L.A. is geographically segregated, so the racism is generally not so overt, but the riots showed what’s just under the surface.
[a normal Korean man (or any man for that matter) wouldn?€™t tell his wife to button up a loose button when it?€™s 40 degrees outside after a messy plane wreck.]
Yes yes. Because as we all know, Korean man are known for their open-minded, tolerant view toward their wives. In fact, they routinely give them plenty of freedom to dress however they like, and that’s why we all see boatloads of cleavage in Korea. Further, most Korean men definitely DON’T view their wives as property, generally DON’T restrict them from even having male friends and DON’T get routinely jealous over the smallest incidents involving foreign males THE DEVIL.
[And why would any normal man would scream Korean to everyone, in an island full of non-Korean people, knowing full well nobody speaks Korean?]
Hangul is the world’s best and most scientific language. Why wouldn’t he?
hanminjok, and yes yes, you have that big chip on that shoulder.
That chip has a name. It’s called reality. Look into it sometime.
hanminjok: In fact, they routinely give them plenty of freedom to dress however they like, and that?€™s why we all see boatloads of cleavage in Korea.
Actually, you shouldn’t hold this against them. They don’t show very much cleavage for a good reason - to show cleavage, you have to have cleavage. Oriental women are somewhat lacking in this department.
Yes hanminjok, Korean men bad, very evil. Korean men are the problems for all the problems in your love life. Bad Korean men just prevent you and sexy beautiful Korean women from having the rightful union. Korean men are bad creatures. You must rescue poor beautiful Korean women who are tied up and raped by bad these creatures or ogres. They are waiting for your rescue.
I live on Oahu and have been up to the North Shore where they shoot the TV show and have even seen the airplane wreckage. The first time I saw it I wondered, “Where in the hell did that come form?!” but I have never seen the show. I’ve been reading the Blog and others for about a year and it has opened my eyes to Korean culture. I use to think Koreans were all simple, honest people, but they are just like everybody else. It seems like the dogeaters hate it when we keep it real.
I live on Oahu and have been up to the North Shore where they shoot the TV show and have even seen the airplane wreckage.
You mean, these people crashed on the North Shore of Oahu and haven’t just walked to phone for help? Can’t they hear the Kamehameha Highway? If so, they deserve to be killed and eaten by whatever monster is stalking them. Maybe that domineering Korean man is stopping everyone from getting away.
anybody able to watch this in Korea?
I touched on it myself on my blog at http://www.cristine.net/log/archives/001021.html — I find the show entertaining (I’m hooked on it, I admit), but also backwards — like “Dallas” was entertaining but totally backwards. Unfortunately, this time one of the victims of hollywood ignorance this time is the Korean male.
Plus — I think it’s just poor acting — Daniel Kim’s got a poor script to work with, but he isn’t making much of it either (and his Korean is horrible to boot).
Lost Korean Dude
Like ChaEsq, I too am hooked on the TV show “Lost.” There’s something about J.J. Abrams who just sticks his neck out on his shows, brings you something provocative and outrageous without an end-game (like “Alias” another of my favorite shows). Let…
Those in Korea can download this show from suprnova.org
Hmm…I have only been in Korea for about a year and a half, but I must admit that I don’t find the character, as described, to be impossible. Far-fetched, yes…but impossible…?
I work at a public high school, and at one point many of my students stopped studying in my classes because there was a rumor going around that I like Japan (not even that I like it more than Korea or I like Japan and hate Korea…just, I like Japan…). Also, I know that at least one Korean teacher has warned the students not to listen in my class or they will become prey to Americanization (obviously in not-so-many words), which is funny since culturally I’m barely an American myself (long story). I have to say there’s some merit in calling it “a knee-jerk reaction in the Hub of Insecurity”, though I’d choose less harsh/inflammatory word-choice.
Oh, and Kimbob, on the choice of clothing, you must admit that there’s a huge difference between Adjumma and Agashi clothing… Whether that is because of controlling husbands or women who are married experiencing utter joy at the freedom to look however they damn well please is a different matter entierly though~ These days, there are some adjumma’s running around with a couple of buttons free too…
Overall, I think it’s probably an unfair portrayal, but it’s TV…the point is to make money, not make people happy. I just hope my students don’t see it…they might all stop studying.
Plus ?€“ I think it?€™s just poor acting ?€“ Daniel Kim?€™s got a poor script to work with, but he isn?€™t making much of it either (and his Korean is horrible to boot).
I don’t think much of the guy as an actor — he seems to have zero range at all, except from expressionless mask to spitting mad and back again — but since the script is mistreating him I am inclined to chalk it up to material. Anyway, next to Yunjin Kim he really doesn’t have much of a shot. She really has the stuff; her Korean is perfect and her presence is compelling as well.
Well I actually saw the forth and fifth episodes of Lost, after someone was gracious enough to let me download the episodes. You know what? I liked it! I have to admit I didn’t expect much from the start, expecting the worst actually. That Korean American’s Korean was really bad, but I thought he gradually got better. Not convincing and enough to hurt the credibility of the show, but better. I suppose it wouldn’t matter because Americans watching it wouldn’t know the difference. As I expected, you had the usual stereotypes of Asians (man is a dangerous mobster, dragon lady, mobster father, innocent submissive female/daughter/wife, Japanese pagodas, etc), but this time we had a Korean character (Kim Yun Jin) speaking perfect Korean for an extensive serious speaking role(no deliberate strange “Oriental” accents this time) - wow it must be a first. The fact that an Asian character had a three dimentional portrayal, must be considered a breakthrough. Hopefully this kind of momentum will continue.
Overall, I didn’t find anything deliberately offensive, although I still will keep my opinion that there was too much exaggeration in trying too hard to emphasize cultural differences. But then again this story is a fiction designed to entertain. So why not? Bottom line, I like the show.
Not to rag too much on poor Dan Kim, for whom I really do feel sorry because he seems to be working with a cardboard cutout of a character, but read this interview on some crazed fan’s website and ask yourself — why does he feel the need to lie about his Korean proficiency?
My wife and I haven’t been watching since the beginning but have caught most of the episodes. Seems to me that he is trying to be what he wanted to be when he was courting and that she isn’t certain what she wants.
It is a fact that many Koreans have negative feelings/prejudices about Blacks/African-Americans. I’ve probably heard as many racist comments from Koreans as from whites and I’ve lived most of my life in the “south”. I think that some of these feelings come from the dealings Korean immigrants to the US, who often establish business cheek-by-jowl with poorer sections of American communities, have with the “gangsta” types. Inner city Blacks I’ve known have had similar prejudices based on their interactions with immigrant Koreans. There is a degree of jealousy or envy there as well.
I personally like the show because the characters are being developed, every detail means something in the development of the plot and these Korean folks have a part to play which we’ve yet to see. The show itself is becoming some sort of metaphysical/self-awareness thing where all the characters help one another develop and/or heal from past misadventures. I don’t think one should base an opinion on watching only one episode. The show is about as good as TV gets today, sadly, and I’d hate for somebody reading this to get the wrong impression.
BTW, I was wondering if his Korean is second language or if they were keeping it simple so that a dolt like myself (who has not spoken Korean for almost 20 years) can still follow. Wish they’d find a Chinese couple as well!
I liked the show. The Koreans around me who saw it too, they all thought it was a good show too. At first when “Jin” spoke Korean, everyone around me asked “what the hell is he saying”, or “is he speaking Japanese”? I think if there’s any criticism of his language ability, it’s little unfair. I did notice though that his Korean got better at it. I think his co-actress Kim Yun Jin did a lot to help him along. Overall, I give it a good positive review.
On an related note, I don’t deny that Koreans have negative feelings/prejudices about Blacks/African-Americans. But I wish once in a while the AMerican media can also show how blacks have prejudices against Asians.
“On an related note, I don?€™t deny that Koreans have negative feelings/prejudices about Blacks/African-Americans. But I wish once in a while the AMerican media can also show how blacks have prejudices against Asians.”
Kimbob, you have just touched upon the double standard that is currently prevalent in the white dominated US entertainment-media complex. African-Americans have a great deal of political voice in US society, the media actually tries not to offend the Blacks. Although, the general portrayal of Blacks, even in this day and age, could still use some work, IMO. But take a minority like the Asians, who have very little political voice, with them anything seems fair game. Many media injustices are perpetrated against Asians and other no political voicing having minorities that they would hesitate perpetrating against Blacks for fear of a political backlash.
Furthermore, note how the producers of “Lost” decided to make enemies out of the Black male character and the Korean male character. Pitting two minorities against each other. This is typical “divide and conquer” post-colonial white male mentality.
“White people often forget that they enjoy the priviledge of being treated as individuals. For every white character that is ?€?bad?€™ there are two or three others that are ?€?good and decent?€™ as an offset. Minority people do not have this luxury.]
No offset, really? The Korean wife, who is one of the most likeable and positively portrayed on the whole show, looks an awful lot like an offset to me.”
Hanminjoke, because the US entertainment-media complex is also heavily white-MALE dominated as well, it should come as no surprise that the Asian female character and the Asian male character are portrayed very differently. Asian female characters have been portrayed as obsequious, desirable, and likable who had to be rescued from the clutches of evil oppressive Asian men (the White Man’s burden, anyone?). Asian male characters, on the other hand, are portrayed as inscrutable, dangerous, threatening, or a harmless dweeb…always the perennial ‘Other’. This is a pattern that has been established time and time again in the portrayal of Asians specifically and is an another example of the white male post-colonial ‘divide-and conquer’ mentality except it is perpetrated against Asian men and Asian women.
Of course, most white-male viewers would find absolutely nothing wrong with this sort of subtle and insidious practice.
Furthermore, note how the producers of ?€œLost?€? decided to make enemies out of the Black male character and the Korean male character. Pitting two minorities against each other. This is typical ?€œdivide and conquer?€? post-colonial white male mentality.
May I ask, which university’s graduate school are you currently attending?
kimbob: I don?€™t know where you?€™re from Zhang Fei and hanminjok, but have you even been to Korea? I ask this because it?€™s hard to believe that anyone would complain how Korean women are not allowed to dress sexy by the Korean men. Yeah I guess they all walk around in Muslim cloaks. bull shit.
Only to Incheon airport (and a lovely airport it is - I especially appreciated the shiny new facilities). When I said that to show cleavage, you have to have cleavage, I was alluding to the fact that Oriental women are not known for having big gazongas.
Bluejives, what is the appropriate level of saintliness Producers of Pallor should be striving for in their depictions of Persons of Color? Minor folk saints? Angels? Twelve disciples? The Big J?
Quite a world you live in bluejives. In your reality, network executives don’t sit around talking about demographics, advertising, Nielsens, program development, or how to make money for themselves and their shareholders. Nope, none of that. Instead, they spend 16-hour days working on “subtle and insidious” ways to fuck the yellow man.
You may want to inform the writers of Lost that they’re part of the military-industrial…er…entertainment-media complex. Here all this time they thought the 15-minute scene showing conflict between a black and Asian character was just another in a long line of conflicts on a show that THRIVES on conflict. They thought it was pretty similar to dozens of other conflicts on the show, including white-white, white-black, white-Arab, Arab-black, druggie-priest, criminal-saint, young-old, male-female, man-beast, and every other imagineable combination.
But no, you’ve set them straight. They weren’t simply writing a scene for a mindless TV drama. They were advancing the scorched-earth “divide and conquer” war on the Asian male.
A war more important than the war on terrorism, most would say, because the enemy is so formidable.
Funny how we don’t hear much about how the heavily-Korean-dominated Korean media distorts and stereotypes Westerners, viz. the ongoing embarassment that is “Love Story in Harvard”. Dishing it out, but not taking it.
dogbert,
let us critique Americanese TV shows versus other Americanese TV shows on Americanese terms, not Americanese versus Korean, on your terms.
May I also point out that in the US, the numerically superior white majority often likes to put a media gag especially on an outspoken minority who may have things to say that makes whites uncomfortable? Despite boasting of ‘liberties’ like Freedom of Speech. And the same white people would criticize a nation like The People’s Republic for lacking ‘basic freedoms’, despite the fact that The People’s Republic has absolutely no pretensions about ‘basic freedoms’.
the numerically superior white majority often likes to put a media gag especially on an outspoken minority who may have things to say that makes whites uncomfortable?
Hah, has the local paper not been printing the op-eds about the eeeeeevil white man you’ve been sending them?
Downloaded the show last night and it is completely addictive and great. I was surprised at the Korean actress’ English skills and shuddered at the actor’s Korean skills. ?¶€??° ????????? my ass.
In terms of cultural sensitivity, I think the show does a damn fine job. They make a point of having some of the people refer to the Koreans as “Chinese” and then being corrected by others (”Korean, man. They’re Korean.”) When the Korean dude catches some shellfish and offers them to the fat American kid, he laughs and says “No way man, no way am I eating that”. But it’s not presented in a them-Asians-eat-the-darndest-things way… rather, the last shot is of the Korean guy walking toward the camera looking frustrated that his generosity was met with rudeness, and you can’t help but empathise with him.
The show does have its racial tension… a redneck character calling a middle eastern guy “falafel boy” and accusing him of hijacking the plane… the tension between the black man and the Korean man. But I think the portrayal is fair. The show does a nice job of presenting the good and bad in everyone - including the Korean guy. Although he’s shown to be hot-headed and conservative, he’s also shown to be generous (offering food to everyone) and dedicated to his wife (though to the point of being over-protective).
It’s impossible not to notice that there is more than a tinge of hypocrisy in Korean nationals crying foul over another nation’s entertainment programming depiction of Koreans while remaining silent of their own country’s media portrayals over non-Koreans.
FYI, pick up a copy of “Blue Dreams” written by Nancy Abelmann and John Lie if you’re interested in Korean-Americans, Blacks and the LA riots….
Someone wrote, “It?€™s impossible not to notice that there is more than a tinge of hypocrisy in Korean nationals crying foul over another nation?€™s entertainment programming depiction of Koreans while remaining silent of their own country?€™s media portrayals over non-Koreans.”
So very true. Actually a lot of Koreans admit this, Korean people complain all the time about their country, but as soon as soon as a foreigner says something, all the faults become virtues. But then again, I lived in the States long enough to see that this seems to be a universal trait, where some countries are more progressive than others. Ironically, I see a direct relationship between the number of stone-casters and finger-pointers of one nation and the hypocrisy therein.
One thing is certain though. I feel really bad for blacks who gets bad rap no matter where they are.
“It?€™s impossible not to notice that there is more than a tinge of hypocrisy in Korean nationals crying foul over another nation?€™s entertainment programming depiction of Koreans while remaining silent of their own country?€™s media portrayals over non-Koreans.”
What makes you think I’m a Korean national?
The scrutiny, commentary, and debate over the “Lost” TV show actually started within the US and rippled through US based Asian-American media watchdog organizations. I can assure you, its not just Korean-Americans who regard this show, and others like it, with a wary eye, most Asian-Americans share the same concern. It was just a matter of time before the Korean media (in Korea, that is) would pick up on it, and since it is an event that involves an actor and actress who HAPPEN TO BE of Korean descent, naturally they would have a journalistic responsibility to report it.
“One thing is certain though. I feel really bad for blacks who gets bad rap no matter where they are.”
I’d be the first to say that the Koreans general of level of internationalization is quite low and that ‘multicultural sensitivity’ is still an alien concept for the most part for many Koreans, media professionals or otherwise.
But then Korea has never had the benefit of the slave experience, racial discrimination, segregation, white mob lynchings, ethnic clashes (even amongst ethnic Europeans fresh off the boat through Ellis Island), trials by all white juries, the Civil Rights struggle, and other historical events that were standard modus operandi for the most Free Nation in the world. What do you want?
For Mac Pac: the airplane was cut up in the mojave desert and barged out to Oahu.
http://www.mojavebooks.com/mhv/040922-1.html
How come no one complained when Kim was an evil lawyer in Angel?
Just a point I forgot to mention. The show starts out with the plane crashing, and has been slowly been going over the backstories of the characters.
Some of the other characters.
An ex-Iraqi army officer who used to torture people but quit/defected when he was ordered to execute a childhood friend (female)
A musician with a drug problem (the hobbit guy)
A Dr who turned his father (also a dr) in for operating while drunk
A paraplegic who can suddenly walk and is a middleaged rambo
Basically everyone on the flight is running from something or has some dark secret that is slowly being revealed to us very slowly. The Koreans aren’t the only baddies.
The scrutiny, commentary, and debate over the ?€œLost?€? TV show actually started within the US and rippled through US based Asian-American media watchdog organizations.
Of course it did. College kids love stories like this. There must have been a million email forwards passed around the Asian-American college circuit.
It was just a matter of time before the Korean media (in Korea, that is) would pick up on it, and since it is an event that involves an actor and actress who HAPPEN TO BE of Korean descent, naturally they would have a journalistic responsibility to report it.
Did someone seriously just use “journalistic responsibility” and “Korean media” in the same sentence? Sweet!
bluejives>”"Asian female characters have been portrayed as obsequious, desirable, and likable who had to be rescued from the clutches of evil oppressive Asian men (the White Man?€™s burden, anyone?). Asian male characters, on the other hand, are portrayed as inscrutable, dangerous, threatening, or a harmless dweeb?€?always the perennial ?€?Other?€™. This is a pattern that has been established time and time again in the portrayal of Asians specifically and is an another example of the white male post-colonial ?€?divide-and conquer?€™ mentality except it is perpetrated against Asian men and Asian women. Of course, most white-male viewers would find absolutely nothing wrong with this sort of subtle and insidious practice.”
Bullshit, bluejives, the truth is that you suffer from an inferiority complex and have too much time to brood to invent conspiracies that don’t really exist. It’s just gyopo syndrome. Hopefully you’ll outgrow it with a little emotional maturity.
For a dose of reality, just ask yourself: if you needed to support your sweeping condemnation of an entire race, would you be able to back your bald assertions with objective research?
bluejives>”May I also point out that in the US, the numerically superior white majority often likes to put a media gag especially on an outspoken minority who may have things to say that makes whites uncomfortable?”
“Point out” whatever your obvious racial inferiority complex compells you to. But eventually learn to stop blaming “the white majority” for your emotional insecurities. Try hanging out with some Asian Americans who are not whiny racist punks. I’m one who would be glad to teach you the real meaning of self acceptance. It doesn’t come in a bottle or a tube (boob tube included) but from simply getting over your supposed differences and seeking your deep commonalities with the rest of humanity.
Fortunately not all Asian Americans are so pathetically uncomfortable in their own skins that we have to portray ourselves as perrenial victims.
Pearsall Helms>”Bluejives, what is the appropriate level of saintliness Producers of Pallor should be striving for in their depictions of Persons of Color? Minor folk saints? Angels? Twelve disciples? The Big J?”
The US media generally goes out of its way to actually portray minorities in a positive light. Personally, I’m secure enough in my skin to handle a little truth. People with ego problems will always be sensitive and whiny and unfortunately, we Koreans sometimes tend to suffer from a victim mentality. Some people will never be content and are always looking for excuses to feel slighted and wronged.
The wide acceptance of minority actors in the US in roles that are non-stereotypical is really rather amazing. I mean, you have a black man playing god and Asian people in Charlies Angels. Pretty damn good considering our percentage of the general population.
I have yet to see such in Korean media where negative stereotyping is rampant. Think for a moment about the unfair treatment of Americans in films and movies like the Barber of Hyoja Dong and the the inaccurate and distorted biases in the mainstream Korean news.
We Korean Americans really have very little to whine about considering that we’ve pretty much gotten a free ride. It was the Chinese and blacks who paid the price of prejudice back in the day when racial consciousness was not so accute. It’s time some of us grew up and learned to take responsibility for our own lives and stop blaming everybody else for our insecurities.
That’s a good Xmas wish I guess. Merry Xmas everybody, and love yourselves - you’ll do just fine!
The husband is also shown as a gangster - working for her father. The impression I got was that he was more Sicilian than Korean.
And a previous poster noted that he started out an Alan Alda, 70s type sensitive male and was turned into a distant, cold machine by her father.
Placing bets here that he’s also the First Character Killed Off.
Bluejives - Merry Christmas
You wrote -
But then Korea has never had the benefit of the slave experience, racial discrimination, segregation, white mob lynchings, ethnic clashes (even amongst ethnic Europeans fresh off the boat through Ellis Island), trials by all white juries, the Civil Rights struggle, and other historical events that were standard modus operandi for the most Free Nation in the world. What do you want?
I believe you need to go back and study the “Mother land’s” history. Slavery existed up to the Japanese control of Korea. Racism existed and does exist in Korea - read history and you will see that there were a number of Japanese that managed to drown in the countryside, coincidence? Segregation: - hmm…..need we comment on this? come-on even you know that is a stupid thing to say - think of butchers. Ethnic struggles - well again - see the Japanese control of Korea, the earlier semi-control by China and those cover this subject, but lets go deeper - lets look at regionalism and its problems - we know that it has become a lot better but there are still enough hatreds between the two southern provinces to probably fill books. Kangaroo courts - hmm….does yangban mean anything to you? Pay enough money and anything goes your way in a Choson court. Civil Rights —- do we want to touch that one?
Here is my point - this happens in ALL COUNTRIES or has happened in ALL COUNTRIES to one extent or another.
Wishing you the best
Robert
To all you bitches who think this is how Koreans think/act ur a dumb ass. My mom is Korean(full) and my dad is black(full). Not all Koreans “hate” black people. Like some white people don’t hate black people. It just depends on who the person is. So if u sterotype people like that ur a dick. Even though some Koreans are like this doesn’t mean all Koreans are. Plus, I just went to Korea this summer and a lot of the Koreans were very nice to me. So to u bitches yall don’t know shit so u should keep ur mouth shut.
K.P.
Koreans are racist, judgmental, very critical,selfish, greedy, materialistic…..and im talking here of the people in general.
I agree with matt. I?€™ve been here in Korea for 7 years now-working in a Korean company doing office work. I can say I am lucky because first, I?€™m a mix breed Filipino-American (the white features dominate the ethnic Filipino features). Second, I spent my growing years in America where I picked up the language and ?€œtwang?€?. Because of these two obvious features I can easily get a job. Koreans don?€™t hire African-American English teachers. They don?€™t care if the person is a bum in America who accidentally found his way to Korea. As long as you are ?€œwhite?€? that will do. I met one American who worked in Macy?€™s as a sales clerk before becoming a teacher in Korea. My point is. - come on lets be honest?€? prejudice and racism is felt. I sometimes feel it. Koreans like me because of my features and my ?€œtwang?€? but then when I show them my Korean green card I know they get disappointed learning I?€™m Filipino. Koreans would leave their country. I love to. Its just that I?€™m married to a Korean.
Koreans always tell me to leave their country. (Koreans would leave their country)
hmmm… I saw the show several times and I have to say that as a Korean man, I do agree that Korean men are some what like that. But this is a TV show! People would rather see something provocative then some discovery channel crap(figure of speech… not trying to discredit the discovery channel). Obviously, writers went little too far by creating a stereotype Korean man. The show went overboard by creating a character like that. I had heard that Kim Yoon-jin was the one who wanted to make two Korean characters in such ways. No wonder… she is a Korean woman who lived in America for many years. Maybe her Americanistic thinking overshadowed her original view of the way of Korean culture. If you are not Korean, you probably do not fully understand the Korean culture. I could never tell someone to fix me a dinner, but Korean men who live in Korea can. Simply because there is an understanding between many Korean men and women that it is woman’s duty to do all of the house work. But aren’t there some American women who would rather stay in home and do all of the things that Korean women prefer to do? If you compare, even though there are more working moms in Korea today than few years ago, the ratio of American working moms and Korean working moms is probably close to 50:1 or greater. So, it’s cultural thing. Korean women prefer not working, but many American women do. So, in American peoples’ eyes, Korean marriage system may not seem suitable. Even in the U.S., I know a Korean couple who are just like that or even worse than what the TV depicted of. I asked her why she would do all these “un-necessary” things… She told me that that’s what she wants. I clearly do not see them as happily married couple, but I am not a part of their relationship. I would never understand what they have as a married couple.
As far as talking about how Koreans are racists. I have to say that there are many racist Koreans around the world. But are Koreans only racists in the world? Or are they the worse kind? If you go to Japan, many still believe that they are the superior mankind. Chinese peoples discriminate harshly against smaller or poor Asian countries. I had lived in Mexico for one year and Mexicans are much worse than Koreans. In the U.S.? Black people are much racists, but they get away, because they always bring up the past slavery in the U.S. White Americans? Hey… You think getting a job in a corp. is easy as non-white American? You think there is no discrimination?
Gimmi a break~
Also, aren’t American people forcing Mexicans to leave this country? Oh… illegals only right?…hmmm
tit torture with needles
Lost and…