Not all of you read former CNN Seoul bureau chief Rebecca McKinnon’s excellent blog NK Zone, although I can’t understand why not. It’s NoKo all day every day peoples!
Anyway, at last I can say that my fears of a new China Syndrome are starting to get some play in the local press, apparently based on a lecture given by a Beijing University professor.
Please see the English translation at Chosun entitled (great title) China’s Alleged Plot to Annex North Korea. Not even the use of that beautiful softening word ‘allegedly’ was enough to dampen Korea’s netizens:
The article appears to have shocked netizens. Each portal site has recorded it as a mostly-read story and attracted hundreds of comments. A concern that China or any other neighboring power will keep an eye on North Korean territory when the Korean Peninsula is about to be unified or when the North Korean regime collapses is common sense to those who have studied international politics or law.
I would have thought so, and yet I have been amazed that almost every time I raise the idea - as I have been for almost a year now - it gets poo-poohed by seemingly intelligent people and well-read academics. It makes absolute sense to me: why wouldn’t China think about ‘grabbing me a piece of that’ when NoKo finally bites the dust? And what in the world could anyone do about it? China could move troops in claiming to act in the interests of peacekeeping securing its own borders and tamping a potentional flood of refugees into China. Then they could just stay there and call it a fait accomplis. And SoKo wouldn’t be able to do much about it, the US would be unlikely to do much but bluster, and the UN would leave China alone because it’s too big.
Prediction: there will come a time when even Koreans to the left of President Roh will look back on the days of US military hegemony in the region and sigh with nostalgia. The US, for all its faults, at least has no actually territorial ambitions on the Korean peninsula, despite what KCNA and the Dear Leader Party might say. Those who think China to be a beneficent older brother will wake up with some not-so-pleasant surprises one day.
Hedging my best: of course it could turn out that the original story might be false, and that no lecturer from Beijing University was ever so bold (brazen!) to give such a talk. Nevertheless, the wider issue here is, does China have territorial ambitions on NoKo? I say resolutely “I think so!”
I invite now your comments. (Oh, and I hope in this debate we can get away from petty racist slurs, and realise that it is the Chinese government we are dealing with here, and not all Chinese per se.)
23 Comments
south korea won’t be able to do anything? uh, yes, it will and china can count
on a nuclear war. if you think koreans are going to sit around and do nothing,
you’re absolutely wrong. i just hope the folks in beijing understand that and don’t
make the same mistake the us made with regards to vietnam. china will
be buying nothing but tears.
The reported lecture sounds to me like an academic version of the “urban myth.” Short of further, hard evidence that a Beijing professor actually did utter the remarks attributed to him, I’m going to treat this anecdotal story with skepticism.
That said, I’m nevertheless concerned about China’s intentions toward North Korea and have been thinking about the issue for over a year now. In the discussion session after a paper that I presented at Hanshin University last January, the issue of China’s intentions was raised by two Korean professors who took seriously the possibility that China would try to annex North Korea if the North’s regime fell.
Whatever China’s true intentions, its Northeast Asian Project, which portrays Goguryeo as Chinese territory, stakes a claim that could be used to legitimize a grab for the North’s territory if the chance were to arise.
Taking seriously this possibility is not a matter of being anti-Chinese (which I’m not) but simply based on my view that states will usually do what they can to enhance their wealth, power, and status — at the expense of other states. China considers itself a regional powerhouse and has even more ambitious aims. I’ve nothing particular against this so long as China develops in a peaceful, democratic direction, but if it replaces the outmoded Communist ideology with a variant of expansionist nationalism, then I expect huge problems and a lot of instability.
Jeffery Hodges
Let me begin by saying that I am by no measure a China scholar, so this is a quite heavily uninformed opinion at best. That said, I??d like to take a stab at answering your two questions, ?橫Why wouldn??t China think about ??grabbing me a piece of that?? when NoKo finally bites the dust? And what in the world could anyone do about it????
(*The following argument rests on the assumption that China seeks stability on its periphery and that current economic, political, and social conditions are either held constant or improve. A worsening in any of these areas would introduce too much uncertainty into an already uncertain equation.)
First of all, I agree that China would without question like to see a pro-China presence on the Korean peninsula. But I don??t think they desire it so much that they would be willing to take it by force. Put another way, I think China is sophisticated enough to see that there are more efficient and less costly ways to make allies.
Given the assumptions made above, there is simply too much at stake for China to take such an action, and there is too much at stake for the rest of the major players in the region to allow it to do so. China has expended too much time and effort in to ensuring its own inclusion and active participation in both regional as well as multilateral organizations, which is a strong indicator of its desire to become recognized as a full-fledged member of the international community. Such a foray into the Korean peninsula would be a not only be a total change of direction, but it would undermine whatever trust and good faith China has built up with its neighbors as well as the world.
Chinese presence in NK would be seen unquestionably as a first step towards further expansionism, and this is not going to sit well with anyone (rather it will be Asia??s worst nightmare come true), save for perhaps some Chinese hardliners. You would know better than I about the South??s reaction, so I won??t touch this one.
But I should think that the rest of the nations who share a contiguous border with, in addition to historical mistrust of, China would also strongly object. As to what they could or would be willing to do about it, that??s uncertain, but given that China is in the process of implementing a free trade agreement with ASEAN at the moment, one possibility is that negotiations on that would grind to a screeching halt and that would have a tremendous adverse effect.
Economically, China is increasingly linked to both Asia and the United States. China??s imports from Asia (excluding Japan) have risen from 11% in 1981 to 31% in 2001. Exports to the US have risen from around 23% to 33% over the same period. (IMF Direction of Trade Statistics). Again, assuming China??s economic growth does not significantly change, why would China risk angering two of the main cogs of its economy?
This is to say nothing of Japan. You may be familiar with the historical reference of the Korean peninsula as a dagger aimed at the heart of Japan. This time it would be a nuclear tipped dagger. And then there is Taiwan, which will no doubt rest easier once they see that China is gobbling up territory.
I mentioned above that the Chinese government would like to see stability around the periphery, and one major reason for this is because focusing on internal issues, specifically, focus on economic and political developments seems to be given priority. And trouble on the border means potential trouble at home.
In addition, it also means more trouble on the border. A collapse of the North Korean regime would of course be troublesome, but unilateral takeover of half of the peninsula would cause that trouble to spread to all of China??s borders, not just the small stretch of it shared with North Korea. South Korea currently poses no direct threat to China, and the consequences of the potential threat that would likely result for invading the North far outweigh any potential benefit China could get by establishing a buffer zone. The Korean peninsula is not a matter of national pride as is Taiwan, and in spite of nationalist rhetoric about Koguryo, I just can??t see any good reason for China to try and take a chunk of it.
I agree with Mr. Hodges that ?橫states will usually do what they can to enhance their wealth, power, and status,?? but I would add that there are countless ways of doing so. Given the recent positive direction of China??s relations with its neighbors (of course there are exceptions) as well as with the world, in the long run I think an argument could be made that China would stand to gain a good deal more but using a North Korean collapse as a chance to work through regional or multilateral organizations to demonstrate not only its leadership abilities, but also as a further demonstration of its good faith and concern about regional stability.
Just like we Americans can get New Mexico and California from poor Mexicans, I really do not see why Chinese can not get North Korea if he can do that. For example, if there is phony referendum to choose joining China.
By the way, Marmot, since you have dedicated yourself to deteriating China-Korea relatioship, hopefully by doing so, you can help US army on South Korea rid of their unpleasant reputation, such as raper or occupier. I think they should solute to your effort.
There are a number of negatives with China’s taking over NK.
First and formost would be China’s having to take on the feeding and care of 30 Million additional mouths who have nothing to contribute to the Chinese economy or technological infrastructure.
Secondly, China which is already drowning in it’s own infrastructure upgrades would have to devote huge resources to bring NK up to standards from which NK could become a contributing member of the Peoples Republic, NK isn’t exactly a huge source of Natural resources or skills if you recall.
Thirdly the PLA would have to divert a huge number of troops to invade, then maintain order in NK. NK if you recall has spent the last 51 years stockpiling weapons and munitions as well as building huge bunker complexes. The New PLA which emphasises a smaller more professional force doesn’t want to expend resources in a NK when they have to stabilize Western China’s Oil rich provences and intimidate Taiwan. South Korea if you recall has a standing army of 600,000 troops with modern weapons and training who’ve also spent the last 51 years preparing specifically to stop an invasion from the north. A military quagmire for a peninsula that has no natural resources?
Fourthley, South Korea is one of China’s major trade partners and investors. There are 200 million middle class urban Chinese who depend on their LG/Samsung aplliances and Hyundai cars. Not to mention their SK soap operas.
Fifthly, is SK assumes control of NK, SK would be responsible for upgrading the NK, one of the first things that would happen would be the construction of rail lines from China to SK ports. SK steel and hightech goods heading North to China and Chinese textiles, electronics and parts heading to SK ports for world export.
Take over a decrepit country and damage a good trade relationship not only with SK, but Japan and the USA or let a good trade partner take over the burden of NK and eleminate a direct threat to both countries while stream lineing the tradeing process?
The Chinese aren’t stupid.
Well, If financial concerns were all that motivated China, they would not be threatening Taiwan with anhiliation every couple of months. While NK means nothing to the chinese national mythos, the large swath of territory South Korea is claiming does. As for trouble on China’s border, it has fought wars with Vietnam and Russia in the not so distant past, is holding down Tibet, and facing a muslim insurgency. That doesn’t sound stable to me. As for when, I would assume they would keep NK on life support, till they grew out of their dependancy on other markets. I don’t think that will take long. Less than a decade, with their explosive rate of growth.
As for the USFK reputation, I would suggest that however badly it acts, the Korean people still seem to support it’s presence here, judging by polls.
For myself, I can’t wait till we bring the Korea garrison back home. Just so I don’t have to hear snarky comments about unit discipline from people whose idea of service was shaped by Noam Chomsky.
Hopefully china will fall apart before it causes trouble to others. Demographic aging and a surplus of unmarried males within the next 20 years should contribute to this. A financial crisis due to 50% of chinese loans in default may precipitate the start of a slow motion collapse sooner than anyone can imagine.
Yes I agree China will break up. The fabled Chinese economic growth is a myth. Much of the their economic growth is man-made artificial figures manufactured by regional governments who are under extreme pressure to ramp up the production. China needs 10% annual growth just to absorb all those people deserting the farms. Because of massive destruction of the environment (unprecedented if you consider that an alarming chunks of China are now becoming barren deserts every year) while the rest of Asia even the world, is being engulfed in “Yellow Dust”. As a result, more and more, China is relying on imported food as they cannot produce enough to feed their own people. China’s economic bubble will burst under the weight of its own corruption (possibly the worst in Asia save Bangladesh) it’s only a matter of time before their greed catches up to them (as it did for Korea in 1997). The only difference will be that it will be much much worse than the Asian financial crisis of 1997. That’s my prediction.
Will China swallow North Korea if they get the chance? Absolutely. They’re already laying down their historic foundations by manipulating Koguryo history. If you go to north east China, there are signs everywhere in Korean, that says “off limits” to the historic sites. They don’t want to let Koreans see the historic relics. This, after the Koguryo and Parhae historic sites had been neglected, ignored, and marginalized by succession of Chinese kings and kingdoms for more than 1000 years. I find it interesting and amusing that all of a sudden they are interested in “studying” “their” past.
If China sets up a puppet government in North Korea, what can the US, South Korea, Japan do? Nothing. The NY Times will have headlines on this for about a week and then it will die down. To Americans, Korea is no different from Tibet or Mongolia, or the moon - they have zilch interest in the country so their attention span will be very short. What about Japan, ASEAN and other Asian countries? What about them? Most Asian countries are only interested in making money, they’re not going to throw it all away for North Korea, or Korea. US, Japan, ASEAN, Asia, will all condemn China outwardly. But that’s about all that will happen. In the meantime, business will go on as usual. Putting it short, the rest of the world is just too dependent on cheap Chinese imports, and have too much invested in China to allow the matter of North Korea (which has nothing to offer) get in the way of business. I’m betting that a lot of these countries who will condemn China, will probably be inwardly happy that China took over North Korea, thereby stabilizing the region. Who cares about united Korea anyway, other than the Koreans? And don’t think the Chinese don’t know this.
That leaves South Korea. ROK’s options are pretty much limited. The trouble with South Korea’s position is that the country has aliented the United States enough that Americans will not aid South Korea in this matter. Americans will be more interested in economic relations with China than lose it all for Korea. Unwisely, South Korea has put all the bread in one basket (with China the future enemy), that South Korea has to be really careful not to hurt the Chinese feelings or risk the wrath of economic sanctions which will eliminate 60% of South Korea’s exports overnight. A diplomatically and economically isolated country like South Korea can’t do too much when China decides to take it all. South Korea foolishly limited its own options.
There must be two Anonymous’ responding, so this is directed to Comment #4. My comments on China are on the NKZone site.
Regarding “poor” Mexico in 1846-48, it had a larger and more highly trained Army than the United States, and was fighting on internal lines of communication, so the smart European money was on a victory by the Mexicans, who would show those Yankee upstarts a thing or two. THe pundits of the time were wrong, not least because General Santa Ana, who had mortgaged his estates to pay his own armies, refused to listen to the advice of anyone his junior.
Second, that part of Mexico “grabbed” by those evil Yankee upstarts was largely uninhabited, and arriving anglo communities were already beginning to outnumber the Mexicans in places like California. Total Mexican population for the area taken was 75,000, and a large chunk of those (New Mexico) did not like being “Mexican”. Many of the Hispanics living in those states today are decended from Mexicans who moved up after the U.S. had taken those territories, seeking to take advantage of its stability and economic development. To put that 75,000 in perspective: Utah territory, formed from “wasteland” taken from Mexico, had over 100,000 inhabitants by 1858.
A minor point, the “right” of those pre-war Mexicans to reside in those areas had been established by conquest, the same means by which the Americans took it. A lot of their neighbors, i.e., the Apache, the Navajo, the Kiowa, and the Commanche, disputed both Mexican and American claims. Many still do, using the courts these days. As a 20th century Mexican president noted: To rule a territory, one must populate it. Otherwise, it will be lost. The northern part of Mexico, so long the most backward, is today the economic powerhouse of the nation. (!Vivan los Nortenos!)
China could do the same, but the paradigm is far from that of the Mexican-American War. North Korea’s territory is not underpopulated and ranks #37 at 185 persons per sq. kilo., though it is only the world’s 46th largest nation. A reunified Korea would count some 69 million people, ranking it the 16th most populous nation, above Egypt and below Iran. Those numbers have to count for something in Chinese planning circles.
The Americans gained a vast, relatively uninhabited territory for economic expansion with their war. What would China gain taking North Korea? Not enough, IMO. And certainly not enough to offset what they are already gaining in trade and investment with the status quo.
“I invite now your comments. (Oh, and I hope in this debate we can get away from petty racist slurs, and realise that it is the Chinese government we are dealing with here, and not all Chinese per se.)”
Speak for yourself, Fan Gong Fu Qing!
In all seriousness, I concur pretty much wholeheartedly with the first anonymous poster. A Chinese annexation of North Korea in the event of it’s collapse is unlikely for a whole myriad of factors. There are a myriad of other more effective alternatives to insure Chinese interests are protected.
In any case, us Chinese imperialist/irridentists have more important priorities than annexing North Korea
. The “liberation” of Taiwan being number one on that list, the Russian Far East, outer Mongolia, and a chunk of Kazakhstan being others.
Though the (very) recent talks between Russian and China may have permanently left outer Manchuria permanently in the hands of the Russkies.
In any case, Stilicho, you have a fairly uninformed perception of the Sino-Soviet and Sino-Vietnamese border clashes of late 60’s and 70’s. The causes were much more complex than you perceive and the primary factors involved were more political than they were territorial. The Spratley island dispute, is however, about territory, or more specifically energy resources.
It’s rather amusing and somewhat poignant and informative to hear what Dongyi, Kimbob, and Nulji(aka Shin) have to say. Everyone has made much ado about Chinese nationalism and whatnot but these posters exhibit the overwhelming paranoia, insecurity, and bluster that one would love to associate with those oh so insidious Chinese but in fact manifest most strongly within South Koreans. Nulji threatens nuclear war with nonexistant nuclear weapons (not to mention changing his nick from Shin to Nulji in protest; it is afterall not nationalistic to use a three syllable Chinese derived name). Dongyi predects the impending cataclysmic collapse of China any day now, Kimbob echoes this cherished fantasy in greater depth (a popular wish among certain segments of conservatives in America, Japan, and those odious Taidu traitors). Not to mention stupidly extrapolating “off limits” signs to be a diabolical plot to deny patriotic Koreans living in China of their cultural heritage and possible future seccession into a unified Korea!
To be blunt, China is still a dirt poor country, and most of it’s people are more interested in making a better life for themselves than in acting in any grand national restoration. Even still, those nationalist aspirations are in part kept in check by an authoritarian and ruthlessly pragmatic Communist Party which nurtures it, but doesn’t want it getting out of hand. Maybe people should be more wary when China becomes more propserous and democratic.
South Korea on the other hand is a recently prosperous NIC with a chip on its shoulders even larger than China. The puerile debates over East Sea/Sea of Japan, Korea/Corea, and very public and official irridentist claims over Gando, hell all of Manchuria show clearly the mindset behind what conjures up these quasi-paranoid speculations about China’s intentions.
That’s not to say South Korea doesn’t have anything to genuinely fear from China, but a healthy skepticism and reservation is more often than not warped into something far from reality.
it would be so much easier for the chinese to let the koreas reunite. sk will then be tasked for the next 20-50 years financing and developing the required infrastructure for nk.
what the chinese may do however in the event of a collapse of order in nk are firstly to seal the borders with nk and prevent the flood of refugees maybe including nk military units. secondly to send in special forces to secure nk’s nuclear and sensitive military facilities for destruction and removal of weapons and weapon materials. both actions would be considered acceptable by the UN and the second action would also be backed by the americans.
One response by Anonymous was ?橫Chinese presence in NK would be seen unquestionably as a first step towards further expansionism, and this is not going to sit well with anyone (rather it will be Asia??s worst nightmare come true.??
China has already done their first steps of expansionism with Tibet and other regions. No one really cared. China also calls for Taiwan to assimilate. And no one seems to care very much. Korea even went so far as to cut off some relations/services with Taiwan to curry favor with China- such as not flying to Taiwan. To think the international community would somehow suddenly care if China took a big piece of North Korea is na??ve. Even if countries do care the only country powerful enough to repulse China is the US and America would be unwilling to sacrifice tens of thousands (possibly more) troops and resources.
Another argument is that China would never take over parts of North Korea because they would suffer economically. When confronted with the possibility of Taiwan claiming independence during the next Olympic games in China, China said they would not care about the Olympic games and declare war on Taiwan. I really don??t think China cares that much about public opinion and economics. If the international community cares so little about Tibet and Taiwan why would they care about North Korea? Trade would go on as usual or after a brief slap on the hand of economic sanctions for a year or two. China would be more than willing to do that trade off. And for the issue of South Korea not trading with China, China will be able to make cars and computers very well in 5 years and will not need these South Korean products. Besides, countries like France will be more than willing to sell their cars to China.
Another argument is that China will have to somehow develop NK. Lets face it the economic gap between the Chinese countryside and NK is not that big. Kim Jung Il has utterly ruined the economy and it would not take much to get NK at a subsistence level on par with the Chinese countryside. China would feel no obligation to develop NK an more than that. Just look at Tibet. South Korea on the other hand has a much higher standard of living and thus a bigger gap. Since they are all the same people, SK would have the responsibility to actually help develop NK above subsistence levels. Something China would not care about doing.
jing, i only meant that in the case of a chinese invasion. sk doesn’t have
nukes but they know how to make them and soon they’ll know how to deliver
them; south korea’s going to launch a satelite next year, i believe. you know
what that means.
you’re wrong about me being anti-chinese. did you notice my chinese writing? does
an anti-chinese bother to learn anything about the middle kingdom? can you understand
as a human being that i might be a little offended by china’s attempt to steal
korean heritage? please keep that in mind, jing.
now, let me tell you my real thinking: i don’t think china has any interest
in controlling any part of korea. the chinese and koreans are going to blah blah
in public and then get down to real talk on a settlement with regards to
gando and koguryo. there won’t be any war nor will there be an invasion.
i’ll end this segment by asking this: who would benefit from rising friction
between sk and china? who, indeed….
China and North Korea
The Marmot’s Hole has an interesting article about the possibility that China would invade some or all of North Korea when it finally collapses. I posted this article at the Motley Fool and at Baen’s Bar and had some interesting reponses.
Nulji:
“…who would benefit from rising friction
between sk and china? who, indeed??.”
Yep, Satan’s always got a big nose, no doubt about that…
How do aging population and a sex imbalance contribute to national breakup? They bring a new set of social problems ?? as will happen first in the developed world.
China??s headache will be different, as by 2050, when the `age?? problem hits critical mass, it will have a population partly in the First World, and a swathe that??s in the middle-income group. How will it split? Old and young?
Stagflation is South Korea??s most immediate nightmare, not China??s. The PRC economy, despite attempts by the government to pull the brakes, is still growing.
The Chinese government??s current policy is to develop the West, not grab the East. What advantages are there to grabbing a chunk of an even-poorer Stalinist country?
It will only add to the liabilities of a government grappling with more important priorities of national development, closing the rich-poor gap, and fighting corruption (Note: where there are corrupt officials, there are also cynical, underhanded foreigners happy to bribe their way ahead of their competitors).
It is all part of a plot, by third party interests, to destabilize the Chinese government and force regime change: constant flogging of the human rights issue (poor Napoleon Beasley), pressure to revalue the yuan.
Unfortunately, some governments are tiring of this double-standard stressed by big powers. Even Japan??s Koizumi has stated that yen re-valuation is a matter for the Chinese government to decide, not outsiders.
China??s relationship with Korea has, through history, been that of sovereign states, under the guise of vassal and suzerain. This has enabled China to maintain secure eastern borders, and Korea, its own integrity.
There is no reason for this to change, unless Korea insists on pressing its historic claims aggressively. China has settled its border issue peacefully with Russia ?? the `unequal treaty?? by which land was ceded to Moscow stands permanently.
My professor taught me to be aware of Orientalists. They learn all about the culture ?? but it is their knowledge, and professed love, of that culture that enables them to discredit and destroy it. Shin Jong-il, you are a wolf in sheep??s clothing.
Frankly, it’s in everyone’s best interest for China to take over immediately. I’ve mentally suggested this numerous times, in fact. The North Korean regime does not have one ounce of virtue, and goes out of its way to be rogue-ishly militaristic, offensive in rhetoric, atomically capable, and as inhuman as possible to its own citizens. Additionally, there is nothing to indicate that the NK regime is not ruled by a man who is not totally sane, and there’s nothing to prevent the next leader from being a complete psycho. The US (not my country, by the way), should simply tell China to annex NK–or else. In my little scenario, the US could help foot the bill to entice the NK regime peacefully out of their country to permanent asylum in China or elsewhere. China, with US blessing, would then move in and formally annex NK. The US would make plain, in advance, that the present borders of South Korea would be forever inviolable.
Finally, as I see it, reunification is not invevitable, and a catastrophe of unimaginable proportions is more likely the longer NK continues in its present state. The Chinification of NK is the best option for the region and its citizens.
Jing you can read the chinese news to see my point:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/e.....330477.htm
China may grow old be the first country to get old before it gets rich. What would result? Well, to tell the truth i have no idea but i would suspect that it would be a big problem for china’s economy. Also, gender imbalance issue could be another big problem for china because a surplus of unmarried males historically leads to lots of crime/prostitution/social problems.
every year, every day that the government keeps the gender-biased 1-child policy is a day that china digs itself deeper into a demographic hole.
is china’s government secretly america’s best ally?
btw, not to go too far off topic but this aging thing is happenning all over the developing world too:
http://www.registerguard.com/n......0530.html
“Countries such as France and Japan at least got a chance to grow rich before they grew old. Now, most developing countries are growing old before they get rich.”
Nulji Maripkan posed this interesting question:
“who would benefit from rising friction between sk and china? who, indeed??”
In the rather short run, the U.S. stands to benefit somewhat from a strengthened alliance with Korea (assuming that the U.S. wants that), but in the longer run, growing tension between China and South Korea is in no one’s interest.
Tension, distrust, paranoia about who’s really irredentist and who’s merely saber-rattling as bluff . . . those are the sorts of things that lead to war — even if nobody wants one. Look at August 1914. That was a war in the interest of no European country, as the suicidal Great War irrefutably proved. All the economic links, all the treaties, ententes, agreements, all for nought. War came and destroyed the world that was, it came unwanted, and it came through the bluffing, paranoia, and nervous irredentism that characterized early 20th-century Europe.
Here, too, all the rational arguments are against war. But war is not entirely rational.
Jeffery Hodges
Nathan Bauman: I agree with what you said here.
“The North Korean regime does not have one ounce of virtue, and goes out of its way to be rogue-ishly militaristic, offensive in rhetoric, atomically capable, and as inhuman as possible to its own citizens”
But what makes you think China, which has propped up this kind of regime, and who is well known for their own inhuman rights and missile peddlings, will be any better to bring stability and freedom to the region?
There’s a reason why China will want North Korea (even if they have nothing of physical interest). That is, they want the buffer state. And it’s the sole reason why China has fed North Korea with arms, food and oil for 50 years, and why they came to the rescue of North Korea in the Korean War, ensuring a total division of the peninsula, and ensuring that 20 million North Koreans live under a totalitarian system today. If China decided today that the North Korean government should be broght down, they can easily arrange that. But they don’t, why? Because they share similar ideology and values with the North Korean government. They are evil.
Some people here ask, why would China take North Korea - wouldn’t that be irrational? Well who said China is rational? Just read Jing’s remarks which are typical of the PRC brain washed rhetorics:
“The ??liberation?? of Taiwan being number one on that list, the Russian Far East, outer Mongolia, and a chunk of Kazakhstan being others.”
If they have no problems invading Taiwan, Russia, Mongolia, the Spratleys, Vietnam, Tibet, Western China (where they have conquered and subjugated the Turkic people), why wouldn’t they want NK too? It’s proven time and time again, China dosen’t care about world opinions. It thinks it’s big enough to decide on itself to decide what is rational or not, and it will act because China wants to, not because they are pressured to do so from the outside.
Re: kimbob
A buffer state against what? South Korea? Japan? The American? If China had wanted resource, the place you want to look at is South China Sea, with thousands of islands, and really large deposit of oil and natural gas and largely unpopulated (except by pirates). The South China Sea has been claimed by China, Vietnam, Philippines and Thailand. Really, North Korea is nothing but trouble.
Still, acquiring NK would be more of a sacrifice for China than anything else. There would have to be some mitigating circumstance so profound that it justified such a sacrifice. Despite all the suggestions so far, I’m not sure what that would be.