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	<title>Comments on: Prostitutes need to eat, too!  And where have all the Japanese gone?  Canada?</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Winds of Change.NET</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7069</link>
		<dc:creator>Winds of Change.NET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7069</guid>
		<description>Eyes on Korea: 2004-10-26
Eberstadt's article; China plans annexation?; NK defectors making "big push"; Chinese humanitarianism; Reactions to the NK Human Rights Act; The information war; NK prison camps; Various diplomatic  military strategies; ROK in Iraq; Anti-Americanis...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eyes on Korea: 2004-10-26<br />
Eberstadt&#8217;s article; China plans annexation?; NK defectors making &#8220;big push&#8221;; Chinese humanitarianism; Reactions to the NK Human Rights Act; The information war; NK prison camps; Various diplomatic  military strategies; ROK in Iraq; Anti-Americanis&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Blinger</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7068</link>
		<dc:creator>Blinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7068</guid>
		<description>I agree with everything that Gord Sellers has to say on the subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with everything that Gord Sellers has to say on the subject.</p>
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		<title>By: eclexys</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7067</link>
		<dc:creator>eclexys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7067</guid>
		<description>Marmot's Sex Trade Articles
Over at Marmot's Hole is a semi-recent series of posts about the sex trade, to one of which  Prostitutes need to eat, too! And where have all the Japanese gone? Canada?  I have posted a lengthy comment on...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marmot&#8217;s Sex Trade Articles<br />
Over at Marmot&#8217;s Hole is a semi-recent series of posts about the sex trade, to one of which  Prostitutes need to eat, too! And where have all the Japanese gone? Canada?  I have posted a lengthy comment on&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7066</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7066</guid>
		<description>Of course these women have other employment options. Of course having drunk strangers ejaculate inside you is degrading. But then again so are all kinds of other jobs. 

The problem I see with legalizing prostitution is the attitudes towards the presence of prostitutes. Look at what's cited here and in Marmot's other article: the "professional" needs of companies entertaining Japanese businessmen is  big one. 

All men have the same basic drive for sex, sex, sex. All men even, I would argue, have an instinctual interest in varied sex with varied women. But not all men act upon it, and not all men pay for it. In fact, most men don't. 

When they do, it's because either they're willing to do it despite social strictures against it, or because they've found a group (population?) of women who don't mind it, or because, well, the society tactily accepts it. 

I don't think a crackdown will solve anything. I don't think legalizing the profession will help the women who are doing it, or women in general. 

A campaign to shame men who sleep with hookers, and to punish  businesses that use their services, would be the most powerful thing, I think. Imagine investigative reports? Headlines about "Modern Comfort Women Sold to Japanese Businessmen by _______" (fill in the company name). 

The same kind of callous attitude that allowed brothers, cousins, uncles, and even husbands to sell their female relatives into slavery as comfort women is the attitude that regards these women as cheap entertainment. And if you ask me, I don't care how long that attitude has been around, it needs to be changed. 

And yes, I'm a big hairy white westerner saying that. It's not as if there's nothing in my own culture I think needs changing; and it's not as if Korean culture has never changed. It's also not as if something having been some way for a long time means it is impossible to change, or ought not to be changed. 

Will it be easy? No. And it won't change because some western complains that it should. It'll take a major change in consciousness, especially (and first) among women, before any of that can happen. But of course it *can* happen. 

One thing that will need to happen along with that is a change in thinking. Right now most Koreans I've talked to about it (not many) seem quite happy to believe something as naive as this: that most prostitutes here service foreigner men, that foreigner men are "sex maniacs". Of course, not only is it totally impossible for the foreigners in the country to support a sex trade that big, but it's also absolutely laughable to think that, with a sex trade that big, Korean men aren't using the "services". (It'd be laughable to think no foreign men are, but it's more laughable to me to think that foreigners alone support the whole sex trade.) That kind of nationalistic naivete needs to be seriously addressed, so women understand that, yes, it is primarily Korean men who are seeing hookers here, and who will need their attitudes changed too. Perhaps they will teach their sons differently than their husbands were taught. 

In the meantime, aside from what I think should happen, what I think *will* happen is an inglorious conclusion to this crackdown and things returning to "normal". The status quo was just too easy to keep going, I doubt it'll change significantly in the near future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course these women have other employment options. Of course having drunk strangers ejaculate inside you is degrading. But then again so are all kinds of other jobs. </p>
<p>The problem I see with legalizing prostitution is the attitudes towards the presence of prostitutes. Look at what&#8217;s cited here and in Marmot&#8217;s other article: the &#8220;professional&#8221; needs of companies entertaining Japanese businessmen is  big one. </p>
<p>All men have the same basic drive for sex, sex, sex. All men even, I would argue, have an instinctual interest in varied sex with varied women. But not all men act upon it, and not all men pay for it. In fact, most men don&#8217;t. </p>
<p>When they do, it&#8217;s because either they&#8217;re willing to do it despite social strictures against it, or because they&#8217;ve found a group (population?) of women who don&#8217;t mind it, or because, well, the society tactily accepts it. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think a crackdown will solve anything. I don&#8217;t think legalizing the profession will help the women who are doing it, or women in general. </p>
<p>A campaign to shame men who sleep with hookers, and to punish  businesses that use their services, would be the most powerful thing, I think. Imagine investigative reports? Headlines about &#8220;Modern Comfort Women Sold to Japanese Businessmen by _______&#8221; (fill in the company name). </p>
<p>The same kind of callous attitude that allowed brothers, cousins, uncles, and even husbands to sell their female relatives into slavery as comfort women is the attitude that regards these women as cheap entertainment. And if you ask me, I don&#8217;t care how long that attitude has been around, it needs to be changed. </p>
<p>And yes, I&#8217;m a big hairy white westerner saying that. It&#8217;s not as if there&#8217;s nothing in my own culture I think needs changing; and it&#8217;s not as if Korean culture has never changed. It&#8217;s also not as if something having been some way for a long time means it is impossible to change, or ought not to be changed. </p>
<p>Will it be easy? No. And it won&#8217;t change because some western complains that it should. It&#8217;ll take a major change in consciousness, especially (and first) among women, before any of that can happen. But of course it *can* happen. </p>
<p>One thing that will need to happen along with that is a change in thinking. Right now most Koreans I&#8217;ve talked to about it (not many) seem quite happy to believe something as naive as this: that most prostitutes here service foreigner men, that foreigner men are &#8220;sex maniacs&#8221;. Of course, not only is it totally impossible for the foreigners in the country to support a sex trade that big, but it&#8217;s also absolutely laughable to think that, with a sex trade that big, Korean men aren&#8217;t using the &#8220;services&#8221;. (It&#8217;d be laughable to think no foreign men are, but it&#8217;s more laughable to me to think that foreigners alone support the whole sex trade.) That kind of nationalistic naivete needs to be seriously addressed, so women understand that, yes, it is primarily Korean men who are seeing hookers here, and who will need their attitudes changed too. Perhaps they will teach their sons differently than their husbands were taught. </p>
<p>In the meantime, aside from what I think should happen, what I think *will* happen is an inglorious conclusion to this crackdown and things returning to &#8220;normal&#8221;. The status quo was just too easy to keep going, I doubt it&#8217;ll change significantly in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon World</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7065</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7065</guid>
		<description>Asia by Blog
Asia by Blog is a twice weekly feature, posted on Monday and Thursday, providing links to Asian blogs and their views on the news in this fascinating region. Please send me an email if you would like to be notified of new editions. Previous editions ca...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asia by Blog<br />
Asia by Blog is a twice weekly feature, posted on Monday and Thursday, providing links to Asian blogs and their views on the news in this fascinating region. Please send me an email if you would like to be notified of new editions. Previous editions ca&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: hardyandtiny</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7064</link>
		<dc:creator>hardyandtiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7064</guid>
		<description>If you legalized prostitution Korea all of those gilrs will be out of work. They're too ugly to compete with the ass that would star working if you made it legit.

Someone mentioned the massage advert in the times. The 900,000W is just a typo that they never fix.
A lot of the ads say "housecall" service, but when you ask them to come to your house they say they only go to hotels. WTF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you legalized prostitution Korea all of those gilrs will be out of work. They&#8217;re too ugly to compete with the ass that would star working if you made it legit.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned the massage advert in the times. The 900,000W is just a typo that they never fix.<br />
A lot of the ads say &#8220;housecall&#8221; service, but when you ask them to come to your house they say they only go to hotels. WTF?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Webb, USA</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7063</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Webb, USA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7063</guid>
		<description>jtb, "Prostitution is wrong"

Is it?  I don't see the point in legislating against behavior that men and women are genetically programed to do.  I think that most men understand that it is very difficult to obtain free sex.  Women expect something in return before sex, whether it's cold cash or a burger at McDonald's.  Prostitution isn't much different than "dating."

jtb, "encourages other crimes"

Keeping prostitution illegal contributes to crime because many criminals view prostitutes and their customers as attractive targets for robbery, fraud, rape, or other criminal acts. The criminals realize that such people are unlikely to report the crimes to police, because the victims would have to admit they were involved in the illegal activity of prostitution when the attacks took place. 

jtb, "wrecks families"

Prostitution is mostly a symptom of marital problems, not a cause of it.

jtb, "spreads STDs"

No, no, no.  Making prostitution illegal increases the spread of STDs, because the activity would go underground and girls would not get checked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jtb, &#8220;Prostitution is wrong&#8221;</p>
<p>Is it?  I don&#8217;t see the point in legislating against behavior that men and women are genetically programed to do.  I think that most men understand that it is very difficult to obtain free sex.  Women expect something in return before sex, whether it&#8217;s cold cash or a burger at McDonald&#8217;s.  Prostitution isn&#8217;t much different than &#8220;dating.&#8221;</p>
<p>jtb, &#8220;encourages other crimes&#8221;</p>
<p>Keeping prostitution illegal contributes to crime because many criminals view prostitutes and their customers as attractive targets for robbery, fraud, rape, or other criminal acts. The criminals realize that such people are unlikely to report the crimes to police, because the victims would have to admit they were involved in the illegal activity of prostitution when the attacks took place. </p>
<p>jtb, &#8220;wrecks families&#8221;</p>
<p>Prostitution is mostly a symptom of marital problems, not a cause of it.</p>
<p>jtb, &#8220;spreads STDs&#8221;</p>
<p>No, no, no.  Making prostitution illegal increases the spread of STDs, because the activity would go underground and girls would not get checked.</p>
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		<title>By: Jing</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7062</link>
		<dc:creator>Jing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7062</guid>
		<description>The world is an imperfect place, always has been, always will be. The only way to stamp out institutional prostitution is to do as communists do and I doubt many people would go that far. Moralizing about the vices of prostitution does nothing but blow more hot air. The only two options about it are to actively engage in anti-prostitution measures or to co-opt it. Frankly co-opting prostituion seems to be the more effective long term solution. Besides, prostitution isn't neccessarily a social evil. It may not be highly regarded in a socially conservative Korea or by Christians, but the prostitute has her place in society and sometimes as history has shown, it was a public one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world is an imperfect place, always has been, always will be. The only way to stamp out institutional prostitution is to do as communists do and I doubt many people would go that far. Moralizing about the vices of prostitution does nothing but blow more hot air. The only two options about it are to actively engage in anti-prostitution measures or to co-opt it. Frankly co-opting prostituion seems to be the more effective long term solution. Besides, prostitution isn&#8217;t neccessarily a social evil. It may not be highly regarded in a socially conservative Korea or by Christians, but the prostitute has her place in society and sometimes as history has shown, it was a public one.</p>
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		<title>By: Zdunk</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7061</link>
		<dc:creator>Zdunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2004 20:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7061</guid>
		<description>My intention was to point out that alternatives to their jobs exist, contrary to what they say.  "Forced to work in factories", well, only in the same sense I am forced to work at my company, or any of you are 'forced' to work at yours.  Namely, in this world we have to work to eat, sleep in a house, and generally survive.  

I really have to disagree Mr. Webb that pride and dignity are possible as a prostitute.  Graphically, drunken strangers ejaculating into you is categorically degrading, and if you think it isn't then I just wonder what the weather is like on your planet.  

These women do have employment options.  They choose the degrading quick bucks over honest work, because some people make weak-willed or foolish decisions like this sometime. 

As for legalization, sure.  I just wanted to point out that they have options they decline to take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My intention was to point out that alternatives to their jobs exist, contrary to what they say.  &#8220;Forced to work in factories&#8221;, well, only in the same sense I am forced to work at my company, or any of you are &#8216;forced&#8217; to work at yours.  Namely, in this world we have to work to eat, sleep in a house, and generally survive.  </p>
<p>I really have to disagree Mr. Webb that pride and dignity are possible as a prostitute.  Graphically, drunken strangers ejaculating into you is categorically degrading, and if you think it isn&#8217;t then I just wonder what the weather is like on your planet.  </p>
<p>These women do have employment options.  They choose the degrading quick bucks over honest work, because some people make weak-willed or foolish decisions like this sometime. </p>
<p>As for legalization, sure.  I just wanted to point out that they have options they decline to take.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Webb, USA</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/10/09/prostitutes-need-to-eat-too-and-where-have-all-the-japanese-gone-canada/#comment-7060</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Webb, USA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=1132#comment-7060</guid>
		<description>ZDunk, "Produce real value for the Korean economy while keeping your pride and dignity?"

Who are you to define "pride and dignity" for someone else?  And prostitution is beneficial for the Korean economy, because huge sums of money change hands in this industry.  It is capitalism in its purest form.  Prostitution IS the oldest profession in the world for a reason - there is always supply and demand.  

Since prostitution is never going away, it would be best for the Korean government (and other governments) to legalize and regulate it.  All prostitues would be licensed and checked periodically.  There could also be a "Hooker Bill of Rights" and they could be allowed to unionize, like in Europe.  Pimps without licensed prostitutes would go to jail.

This program would have several benefits:
- There would be less sex crimes.
- Reduce the spread of STDs.
- Prevent sex slavery of foreign workers.
- Prostitution areas would be zoned.
- The government could raise revenues by taxing it.

To paraphrase George Carlin: selling is legal, sex is legal, so why is selling sex illegal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZDunk, &#8220;Produce real value for the Korean economy while keeping your pride and dignity?&#8221;</p>
<p>Who are you to define &#8220;pride and dignity&#8221; for someone else?  And prostitution is beneficial for the Korean economy, because huge sums of money change hands in this industry.  It is capitalism in its purest form.  Prostitution IS the oldest profession in the world for a reason - there is always supply and demand.  </p>
<p>Since prostitution is never going away, it would be best for the Korean government (and other governments) to legalize and regulate it.  All prostitues would be licensed and checked periodically.  There could also be a &#8220;Hooker Bill of Rights&#8221; and they could be allowed to unionize, like in Europe.  Pimps without licensed prostitutes would go to jail.</p>
<p>This program would have several benefits:<br />
- There would be less sex crimes.<br />
- Reduce the spread of STDs.<br />
- Prevent sex slavery of foreign workers.<br />
- Prostitution areas would be zoned.<br />
- The government could raise revenues by taxing it.</p>
<p>To paraphrase George Carlin: selling is legal, sex is legal, so why is selling sex illegal?</p>
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