Car after car with U.S. flags./Im Gi-hyeon
As anyone who works anywhere even remotely close to Seoul City Hall knows, there was a rather massive anti-government protest today in which about 100,000 participants from mostly conservative and Christian groups rallied to condemn plans to abolish the National Security Law. Now, last time a commented on something of this nature, I got slammed, so allow me to say a few things first:
1) I fully appreciate and am eternally grateful to the veterans of the Republic of Korea who put their lives on the line to protect from communist aggression a nation that would eventually become the world’s 11th largest economy, 12th largest global trader, and a vibrant democracy. I am also extremely grateful to those Korean vets who sacrificed their youth getting shot at in Vietnam to support a blood ally.
2) I generally dislike flag burning, as I think there are much more intelligent (and less offensive) ways to make a point. That being said, if I had to choose a flag to burn, the North Korean flag would be it. For that matter, burning the white and blue “unification flag” (which apparently got toasted, too) is fine with me, as I generally despise what it stands for (and frankly, I think its ugly. Don’t like the color scheme).
3) I am no fan of Hanchongnyeon, Prof. Song Du-yul, or leftists in general.
There, I said it.
Now, nothing gets me angrier than to see stuff like this (don’t need to read Korean — just scroll down and look at the photos). No, I don’t like OhMyNews’ snide little comments below the photos, either, but I’m pissed off at the use of my flag, nonetheless.
Look, I appreciate the fact that people are grateful to the United States for the assistance rendered South Korea during its time of need. I really do. But those protesters have no right to invoke my national banner in support of a law that runs counter to everything I’d like to believe the United States stands for. Again, I stress — I don’t like communists. My wife would be happy to regale you with tales of the wonders 70 years of communism can do for a body politic. For that matter, North Korean spies and agents should be nailed to the fuckin’ wall under the criminal code. Moreover, it drives me up the wall when high-ranking Uri Party members and the progressive press (like today’s Hani editorial) invoke intra-Korean reconciliation in arguing for the abolition of the National Security Law. North Korea certainly won’t open up its political system to “pro-South” elements in the name of intra-Korean reconciliation, and what’s more, it’s unnecessary and quite frankly dangerous to invite Pyongyang to become a party in South Korea’s domestic affairs.
Uniformed demostrators hold a sign that reads “Step down, President Roh” and protest to police when they block their march toward Cheong Wa Dae./OhMyNews G.U. Seong
The problem is, the right does the exact same thing in support of the National Security Law. They argue that since North Korea won’t allow pro-democracy forces operate in their territory, South Korea shouldn’t allow pro-communist forces to operate in its territory. This spooks me because North Korean behavior is the last thing on the planet I’d care to use as a yardstick by which to frame the laws by which I’m governed. Would guys like Rep. Kim Yong-gap (who was there today, unsurprisingly) and Rep. Kim Mun-su (who was also there, which was especially disappointing, since he was victimized by the law when he was younger) care to argue that since Pyongyang puts the ideological untrustworthy in political prison camps, Seoul should do the same to radical leftist groups like Hanchongnyeon and their friends? The debate over the National Security Law needs to be separated from North Korea and, ironically for the right, be framed in turns of the national identity, or jeongche-seong. As Grand National Party chairwoman Park Geun-hye has elaborated ad nauseum, the Republic of Korea’s jeongche-seong is liberal democracy (Korean: jayu minju-juui). Being that this is the case, wouldn’t it follow that a law that allows the state to put college kids in prison for uploading Marxist texts on to their Internet site runs counter to the Republic of Korea’s jeongche-seong? Wouldn’t it follow that a law that makes individuals criminally liable simply for praising a state or ideology, regardless of how despicable that state or ideology is, coincides in no way with the jeongche-seong of the Republic of Korea? It would seem to me that if said law coincided with any nation’s jeongche-seong, it would be that of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (i.e., North Korea), not the Republic of Korea.
This brings me to my flag. First off, the U.S. has no official position on the National Security Law debate, as well it shouldn’t, given that it’s a purely domestic matter. Waving the Stars and Stripes around like that makes no sense at all, because neither the U.S. Embassy, U.S. State Department, nor any other U.S. government institution supports your struggle. Washington is NOT a party to this dispute. Period. What’s worse, by waiving the U.S. flag like that with martial music going in the background, you give others the impression that somehow, someway, the U.S. is involved and supports your cause. Should we be surprised that the OhMyNews piece linked above was entitled, “Komerika in the midst of the Save the National Security Law Rally”? Should we be surprised when Koreans who think the NSL sucks start believing that the U.S. is opposed to democratic reform in South Korea? Should we be surprised when progressives label conservatives U.S. toadies? If you guys want to do your ally a favor, you could start by leaving your U.S. flags at home, because all you’re doing now is giving your ally a black eye and confusing the public at large as to the role the U.S. plays in South Korea.
More pics and improper use of the U.S. flag here, via OhMyNews.
Members of an NGO participate in a demonstration protesting the abolition of the National Security Law, on Monday, burning pickets and holding a strike./Chosun Ilbo
Note to Norbert Vollertsen: Congrats — you made CBS for being involved in a side protest in which the North Korean AND Korean re-unification flags were burnt (before the cops put them out). Apparently, the protesters also called for the overthrow of Roh Mu-hyeon, Roh’s resignation, and the death of Kim Jong-il. Not that you’d need or want my advice, but let me ask — assuming for the moment that the report was correct, do you think you might be hurting your own efforts to inform the South Korean public of the brutality of the North Korean regime by cavorting with individuals calling for the overthrow of South Korea’s elected head of state?
Note to a certain conservative S. Korean daily I hesitate to name on this blog: Was it truly necessary to set up stalls around the protest site selling editions of our monthly magazine like it was the bible of Korean ultra-conservatism? We should be better than that.
UPDATE: The Oranckay gives us graphical evidence why the National Security Law sucks. This helps, too:
Of warrants received to tap people for alleged NSL violations, over 90 percent of those cases were for violations of NSL Article 7, which covers “praising or sympathizing” with anti-state groups. In other words, the suspects weren’t being watched for “forming anti-state groups” (Article 3), “committing anti-state acts (Article 4), “willful help or provision of money and materials” (Article 5), “infiltration and escape” (Article 6), “Meeting, Corresponding and etc,. with anti-state groups” (Article 8 ), “aiding anti-state groups” (Article 9), “failure to inform on anti-state grousp” (Article 10), or for that matter anything else.
By year, warrants for NSL cases were 348 in 2001, 192 in 2002, 235 in 2003, and 136 in 2004 up through June.
23 Comments
I am an American citizen, and I am glad to see Koreans waving the US flag. Their reason for waving the US flag is not to associate it with the national security law, but to show their support for the US and their dislike for the ruling party’s support for North Korea, A rally can have more than just one purpose.
And, gosh, it makes me feel good to see the childish, snide comments under the Ohmynews photos. I can picture the people at Ohmynews standing up in front of the TV with their hands on their hips, pointing at the sea of US flags, and cursing the 100,000 people waving them. I wish I could have been there.
By the way, way to go, Vollertsen.
I do not know enough about the national security law to comment on it, but Korea definitely needs a sedition law, especially since North Korea almost certainly has agents in the South trying to incite rebellion. The fact that South Korea seems to be letting down her guard, in respect to North Korea, may be evidence that North Korean agents are doing their job well.
That Ohmynews piece just shows pictures of people who are waving American flags and then makes stupid snide remarks to show that Koreans are being stooges for America. It completely ignores such pictures as these:
http://www.chosun.com/national.....40226.html
As you can see, there are lots of Taegukis also, not just American flags. There are many ROK citizens who are concerned with the complete turn to the left direction of the country and wants to let everyone know that they disapprove of severing of the ties with the United States.
That’s the official line, but you can hold no opinion about the NSL yet still participate in the demonstration. The same 100,000 people would have shown up if the protestors were protesting against North Korea and showing support for the US.
I’m in favor of revising the NSL to narrow down the broad definitions of anti state activities, but I’m definitely not in favor of abolishing it outright. That will only do a huge favor for North Korean spies, North Korean sympathizers, and the ignorant pro-unification-at-all-costs-brainwashed.
Just because the State Department website says the NSL is a human rights abuse, it doesn’t mean it’s really true. It’s hog wash.
RE KIMBOB COMMENT: “That??s the official line, but you can hold no opinion about the NSL yet still participate in the demonstration.”
The organizers brought the flags. (both countries)
Massive South Korean Protest
An estimated 100,000 largely conservative and Christian protesters gathered and converged on the Seoul City Hall Plaza to condemn plans to abolish the South Korean National Security Law.
Ref. Vollertsen, and more specifically, those associated with him–
I did note the “Resign Roh Moo Hyun” sticker on one sign near him, but it was not clear if the holder of that sign was with Vollersten. Even so, the statement, while ideologically a bit over the top, is not undemocratic per se. I see similar demands against GW Bush on posters here every day. The simple, democratic, and peaceful answer to such a call is simply to refuse or ignore it. And after all, American democracy didn’t end in August 1974, when a U.S. President did resign.
The “alleged” calls to overthrow Roh, if true, would obviously be another matter. What is your source for Vollertsen associating himself with that?
As for calling for the death of Kim Jong-Il: someone should explain to me why that would be a bad thing. It’s hard to deny that an unscheduled meeting between the Dear Leader and his Maker would save many lives. It’s not as if voting him out of office is an option.
One final note–a link to a translation or even a half-decent explanation of what the National Security Law really says would advance this discussion. Corrupt courts and bad legal reasoning don’t necessarily mean the law itself is fatally flawed. You can amend flawed laws to require additional checks and balances. There ought to be a way to ban and punish outright subversion–which is a very real threat in South Korea–while allowing North Korean toadies to blather away, as long as they do so peacefully. If good counterspeech can’t expose and discredit them, you can pretty much pronounce South Korean democracy a failure.
On the other hand, if they’re waving our flag, they might just listen to a respectful suggestion or two.
I find this situation deeply amusing, particularly in light of exact opposite phenomenon on Taiwan. There, it is the pro-business, conservative, veterans, and present army officer corps that are the ones who most push for a detente and reconciliation with the communists in China. There are a number of reasons for this, but its still terribly ironic.
Read my comments on Oranckay. These statistics do not graphically illustrate why the law sucks. The number of warrents stood at less than a third of the total number of investigations, and the number of convictions were probably a handful. National security is no laughing matter, considering the nation is legally still in a state of war! Revisions may be in order but the law is less problematic than the alternative.
It’s great to see an American flag in a protest here that isn’t burned or ripped to shreds.
North Korea invaded South Korea 50 years ago.
It would love to ?橫reunify?? Korea with Kim Jung Il as the Dear leader of course.
It has a massive army that could destroy seoul and take it over in two weeks as an earlier story on this website by Marmot shows.
North Korea has spies and has tried and is trying to destabilize the South Korean government.
Basically North Korea is a country that has the will and tools to invade South Korea again if the opportunity presented itself.
I think it is obvious that South Korea needs some sort of sedition law.
The patriot act was abused under the South Korean dictators. But it has been fairly well implemented since Kim Dae Jung- at least as well as any sedition law. Yes a sedition law isn??t ideal but there is no doubt it is still needed. Throwing it out is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yes change the Patriot act to make more checks so it isn??t abused but don??t get rid of it with Kim Jung Il up North.
Personally I like it when the American flag is in a rally where it doesn??t get burned or torn up.
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I also do not see how Orackay’s article proves the “National Security Law sucks.” The warrants were for wiretaps, not for arrests.
If people are “praising or sympathizing” with anti-state groups, wouldn’t that warrant an investigation into whether they were possibly engaging in more serious anti-state activity?
Personally, I am amazed that so few warrants were issued considering all the “praising and sympathizing” that has been going on over the past few years.
How do you feel about the German anti-Nazi laws? Those are kind of anti-democratric too wouldn’t you say.
Exactly Bevers. You can praise and sympathize North Korea, and even have pseudo websites that sympathize with everything that the North stand for, and yet not only be arrested but thrive. I just don’t see how this law has hurt the “freedom of speech” until they go far, like being a member of the North Korean party, shaking the hands of Kim Il Sung and praising him. And we have Korean Teachers Union teaching the kids the great North Korean system while defacating on South Korea as the bad guys. In the past, many of those teachers would have been arrested under the NSL and the Amnesty International would have been all over the cases. Not now. They have been left alone in the name of Democracy and free speech. There’s no pattern of teachers being arrested under the NSL. there. Now look at the results of entire young generation of Koreans what they are learning.
Kimbob, the KTU doesn’t make up a majority of teacher in Korea, and while I certainly don’t like their politics or classroom antics (the latter of which would be impermissable even without the NSL), do I need to remind you that the KTU owes its very legitimacy to that time (which you yourself pointed to) when teachers would have been arrested an put in very bad places for straying from the official line under the NSL?
I have a question about the coverage of the protests and the general disagreements over NSL policy. Why does no one ever mention Park Geun-hye’s mother in these stories? Every story has to mention the abuses of her father - and rightly so, those were some really nasty times. But no one ever mentions the mom who was killled by NK gunmen. Isn’t there as much a legacy of mom as dad in her story?
She has seen a side of NK most people want to forget exists. You may not like her, but she is being treated as “Daddy’s little Facist” and it isn’t fair to her views, policies, or the woman herself.
One perfect example why it’s needed to do exactly the opposite and strengthen this law, and not abolish it:
http://english.chosun.com/w21d.....40041.html
The only way to stop these nuthouse people from ruining Korea is to use the NSL law to deport these traitors back to North Korea where they belong.
It’s inconceivable and criminal to let these people teach the young so that they can grow up to be nice little young men and women with Kim Jong Il badges.
Is it any wonder that it doesn’t take much to whip up anti-American protests to protest an unfortunate accident that involved US army and the two dead girls?
Can’t wait until Park Geun Hye comes to power in 4 years. She will really have to deal with a long clean up list to clean out the rats which have been running wild in the absense of law and order for the last few years.
Kimbob, as the man who translated that editorial (and the one on the same subject yesterday), allow to point out that it should send up red flags when you see the same line — in this case, the one about the comparisons between the Chollima and New Village movements — being hammered over and over again. Yes, on the face of it, it seems like a problem, and given the tendencies of the KTU, it doesn’t surprise me. That being said, this is the Chosun Ilbo editorializing, which is not to say what it said in the editorial isn’t 100% on the money, but I’ve translated enough of them to realize that things aren’t always what they seem. I haven’t read the text; all I’ve done is read things written about the text, most notably by the Chosun, and saw some stuff on it via YTN. The way you solve this issue (assuming there is an issue), however, is by strengthening guidelines on textbook selection and enforcing classroom standards, not by deporting teachers or publishers to North Korea under the NSL or any other law. Besides, Japan’s largest teachers’ union is notoriously Marxist, and has been for a long time. Japan seems to have successfuly managed to stave off revolution, however. Remember, it’s not just the KTU in town — they’re confronted by the Ministry of Education and Korea’s other major teachers union, both of which are fairly conservative.
Asia by Blog
Asia by Blog is a twice weekly feature, posted on Monday and Thursday, providing links to Asian blogs and their views on the news in this fascinating region. Please send me an email if you would like to be notified of new editions. Previous editions ca…
Some serious blogging going on in Kland
While I have been dorking around with the US election, some of my fellow IKK members have been doing yeoman’s work bring us the goods on the situation in Korea. Some of this stuff is so good that I feel
I just don’t get it.
It wouldn’t matter so much whether we abolish the NSL,
since some parts of our civil law already cover things up for people that praise North Korea.. or doesn’t it?
Another very insightful post - thanks!
I returned to the US in 2002 after having been in Korea for a number of years. I was amazed at first by the amount of-lets call it nationalistic pride that was exhibited seemingly everywhere I looked (San Francisco is not known as a bastion of Nationalistic Pride-gay pride is another story). People flew the US flag from every thing they could, from motorcycles to the rednecks driving the lifted full size 20 year old pickup trucks with gun racks in the back. Fine. The thing that dissapointed me was after a few months of driving at freeway speed, these flags either became very frayed or fell off all together becomming roadside trash. While I agree that the flag represents ideals of the country that people have fought and died for around the world, even in our own country it is not propperly displayed-very much to my own dissapointment. I agree, however, with you on the argument that it contributes to the idea that the US is dictating to South Korea what they can and cannot do (despite the fact that I am sure the current administration tries I doubt they are as successful as some would have you believe). The people of the Cheolla province, particularly in the Kwangju area still believe that the US authorized Chun Du Hwan’s movement of troops from the DMZ to sqaush the uprising in Kwangju in 1980. Despite the fact that President Kim Dae Jung set up a bipartisan panel to look in to the government’s use of force and the indictment of both President Roh Tae Woo and Chun Du Hwan. The point is that while I don’t think there are enough people that remember the benefits they currently enjoy because the US interceeded on their behalf but I think this is not the right way to express gratitute. Rather, it is a very cheap trick that short sighted polititians are exploiting for their own benefit not for the that of Korea.