A few days ago, I blogged that a group of 59 lawmakers had signed and submitted a bill to lay claim to the Gando region of Manchuria, a piece of real estate that is not only firmly controlled by the Peoples Republic of China, but also legally recognized as Chinese territory by just about every nation on the planet, including both Koreas. Well, the Korea Times ran a report on how Gando is now well on its way to becoming a new source of friction in Sino-Korean ties. Get a load of some of these quotes:
“The [1909] Gando Agreement is null and void in terms of international law and the historical situation,” Rep. Kim Won-wung, who is leading the move to abolish the agreement, told The Korea Times yesterday.
“Mindful of the agreement’s legal loophole, Beijing had intentionally distorted the history of Koguryo in a bid to secure the Gando area,” said Kim, adding that he would seek joint efforts to claim Gando as Korean territory with North Korea.
It gets better:
“The Gando issue can be our strategic card to make a big deal with China after unification of the Korean peninsula,” Kim Woo-jun, a professor at Yonsei University said.
“For example, we can take advantage of China?????s fear that one day millions of ethnic Koreans living there, better known as Chosonjok, will support Korea and spill over the current borders after the possible reunification.”
Well, despite what was said by one blogger recently, it appears at least some Koreans are under the impression that China is, in fact, Korea’s bitch. The problem is, if Korea isn’t careful how it “takes advantage of China’s fear,” the Chosonjok won’t be a factor in any potential border issue. At least not while they’re living in Tibet, the Tarim Basin, or wherever Beijing relocates them if talk like this keeps up.
Fortunately, there are voices of reason:
“Though politicians consider the Gando agreement invalid just because it was signed at a time when Korea was deprived of sovereignty, the general view among international scholars is not in their favor,” Ahn Jin-woo, former law professor at Senam University said.
Even if South Korea brought the treaty to the international court to confirm its validity, judges would likely rule in respect of the current border line, Ahn stressed, saying, “The lawmakers’ attempt is an unnecessary war of attrition, which could lead to a serious diplomatic battle with China.”
Foreign Minister Ban Gi-moon, meanwhile, is still being what we’ll call for now strategically ambiguous with this whole mess:
Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon said recently the Gando problem is a very delicate matter involving many countries, including North Korea, and should be dealt with carefully after collecting more accurate historical data.
The ministry also flatly denied the allegation that it had agreed not to raise the Gando issue with Beijing at government level in return for China’s verbal promise not to misrepresent Korean history.
“We didn’t discuss the Gando issue when we reached the five-point understanding with the Chinese delegation,” Ban said in a briefing.
The story, however, doesn’t stop here. One former lawmaker claimed that this whole Koguryo history spat was caused by President Roh Moo-hyun himself. I almost wish this was true (and it may be), if for no other reason than the visuals it provides:
Jang Sung-min, a former opposition lawmaker, argued that the Koguryo dispute escalated to a full-blown dispute when Roh angered high-level Beijing officials by suggesting “dual nationality” for ethnic Koreans living in China’s northeastern region.
“When Zhao Nanqi, former vice-chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, visited Seoul in June, President Roh asked him to deliver his wish to Chinese officials that ethnic Koreans in China be eligible for Korean nationality as well,” he said in a radio program.
“Roh’s remarks shocked Zhao, who was barely able to stop himself from directly retorting,” he said, quoting who he called a reliable source familiar with the diplomatic issue. Chong Wa Dae flatly denied Jang’s allegation.
Now, the bitch about this all is that the 77-year old Zhao, better known in Korea as Jo Nam-gi, is Joseon-jok. In fact, the retired PLA general was the highest ranking ethnic Korean in the CCP leadership — if you want to see him chilling with Deng Xiaoping during a visit to the Gando area, look here. If that’s not your thing, you could read (in English) his thesis on Deng’s theory of defense modernization here. Anyway, Zhao is now an older, grumpy-looking commie ex-general who seems to be a bit of a tough guy, and I could imagine him reaching over and actually smacking Roh upside the head.
Meanwhile, the Hanguk Ilbo has a piece on the Gando issue, and while most of it is stuff we’ve already heard before, it did have some interesting tidbits, namely:
– The civic group Hwalbindan, composed of some pretty hard-core rightists (if the links to the Chosun and Dong-A on their homepage didn’t tip you off, check out their protest pics), are planning a road trip to Beijing, where they will hold a protest in Tienanmen Square on Oct. 10 carrying placards claiming Gando is Korean territory. Of course, they also threatened to land on Japan’s Tsushima Island (which they also claim as Korean territory) following the Great Dokdo Invasion that Wasn’t, and I don’t believe that ever panned out. Still, I’d imagine things could get amusing if they actually decided to make the trip (and the Chinese actually gave them visas), given their dislike for both “land thieves” and anything even remotely associated with the communist party.
– That pesky 1962 North Korea-China border agreement. Interestingly enough, the treaty — which designated the Yalu and Tumen rivers as the borders between the two states — was concluded in secret. The good news for Korean nationalists is that secret treaties are not recognized by the U.N. (and ICJ), hence Korea wouldn’t have to hold itself to the border agreement following re-unification. The bad news, however, is that international law experts say that for a treaty to be declared null and void, the concerned authority must declare it null and void within 100 years of its signing. The Gando Convention, signed in 1909, has only five years left on it before it because permanent regardless of whatever flaws it may or may not have. Or so says the Hanguk Ilbo. Anyway, I’m not sure what kinds of options South Korea has in the event it really did want to kill the Gando Agreement, given the existence of North Korea. It would seem like an nightmare only an international law professor could love.
22 Comments
remember when china attacked vietnam in the late seventies or early eighties? they did so for a lot less reason than the flaming sack of shit that south korea is about to drop on the chinese leaders desk. the koreas better be careful.
Actually you are wrong there Captain Scarlet. At the time of the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese war, Vietnam had captured thousands of Chinese prisoners that were acting as “advisors” in Cambodia where the Vietnamese invaded.
I forgot to mention this, but is it just me, or are rightist Korean protestors incredibly meticulous? Their signs are all neatly printed and easily legible in bold colours. No ad hoc hand-crafted signs here folks, everything looks to have been professionally made.
Oh and in case you were curious, there are still some high ranking Koreans in the PLA military. The current deputy commander of the PLAAF(air force), Li Yongtai, is Korean.
[by the way, those PLA english abbreviations are horribly clunky if spoken in English, for example, the naval aviation branch of the PLA is literally the PLANAF or, People's Liberation Army Navy Air Force. Try and say that three times faster]
Sorry to make 3 back to back comments, but unfortunately I can’t edit my own comments, which by the way would be a nice feature to have. But would also make this blog a full fledged message board as well. I digress however. There is a fairly glaring error in the first paragraph of your post. You have erroneously written that “a piece of real estate that is not only firmly controlled by the Republic of China”, which is simply not true. The current territory is under the control of the “Peoples” Republic of China, not that of the government of the Republic of China(currently “exiled” on Taiwan). Although the National Assembly of the Republic of China does indeed technically claim the Gando territories (indeed all of mainland China and then some), territorially wise, it is administered by the People’s Republic of China and its local organs.
CS: remember when china attacked vietnam in the late seventies or early eighties? they did so for a lot less reason than the flaming sack of shit that south korea is about to drop on the chinese leaders desk. the koreas better be careful.
The Viets kicked some Chinese butt back then, although the Chinese have spent the ensuing decades declaring victory. I think South Korea is way stronger than Vietnam was back then, which was struggling under crippling debt loads incurred to launch its invasion of the South. But the best strategy is probably for the Koreas to bide their time until the Chinese empire collapses under the weight of its own incompetence. Only then will it make sense, from a cost-benefit perspective, to regain Korea’s historical lands from China’s clutches.
This Gando talk is either mindboggling naivete about China and its commitment to the territorial integrity of its empire — or a bargaining chip to win Chinese concessions in the Toenjang Wars! Are there any more unserious and incompetent “lawmakers” on the planet than the inhabitants of Youido?
Jing — problem corrected. Simple typo — wasn’t trying to suggest Taiwanese control of Manchurian territory.
This (as I’ve already argued) is a foolish fight to pick. China holds most of the cards (to mix my metaphor), and I can’t see what Korea would gain (certainly not Gando). Kim Woo-jun, professor (of what?) at Yonsei University, apparently thinks differently:
“The Gando issue can be our strategic card to make a big deal with China after unification of the Korean peninsula.”
Well, not if you show your hand too soon, it can’t! And this according to Rep. Kim Won-wung:
“The [1909] Gando Agreement is null and void in terms of international law and the historical situation.”
As I admitted on a different post, I know almost nothing of this Gando issue, but I find unlikely this statement about the legal status of the Gando Agreement, and I’ll follow the opinion of former Senam University law professor Ahn Jin-woo since he’s the expert. Even if Korea had a strong case, it couldn’t win if the point were to get Gando back, and arguing about Gando belonging to Korea will only convince China that the recent Chinese attempt to stake a claim on Goguryeo is a necessary one and that the Korean peninsula should never be allowed to be reunified since Koreans would then begin pressing for border changes.
Some Koreans, such as my ultra-nationalist (and yet, leftist) friend Kim Sang-Yil, of Hanshin University, even believe that Korea rightfully ‘owns’ China’s Shandong Province and that Confucius was Korean! With claims like these, Koreans lose credibility, and I speak as a friend of Korea.
Jeffery Hodges
I could understand korea making the case for Gando once they are reunified. But for SK to do so when their own borders do not even touch Gando and before they are unified again with NK is biting off more than it can chew. I am glad to finally see SK standing up to China somewhat lately but Korea needs to pick its battles carefully.
Korea would not put up the same fight as Vietnam.
Jing,
no.. you are wrong. china invaded vietnam because vietnam turned its back on china after they won the vietnam war. china helped them during the war but after the war, vietnam signed an agreement with russia to only do trade with russia and not china. keep in mind that china and russia have never trusted each other and their brands of communism have always been different. china attacked to save face. i don’t know who “won” but china lost 45,000 men in just over a month and squandered a kings ransom of money that took them years to recover from. i’ve got documentation to back this little footnote of history up too.
lol, again with the face arguement Captain Scarlet. My first assertion was that you were wrong in describing the current Koguryo issue as more significant to China than the causes for its war with Vietnam. I was just pointing out one of the many pretexts for the Chinese attack and attempting to show that to equate the current diplomatic row with Korea barely compares.
Well anyway, heres what wikipedia has on the Sino-Vietnamese war.
While Communist China and North Vietnam had been close during the initial stages of the Vietnam War, after the conflict and the Sino-Soviet Split Vietnam aligned with the Soviet Union. During the conflict in Indochina, initially both the Chinese and the Soviet Union were supplying Vietnam. With the death of Stalin, the situation changed. Mao Zedong despised Nikita Khrushchev. As a result of the personality conflict, Chinese foreign policy began a shift away from the Soviet Union and towards the United States. North Vietnam began allying with the Soviet Union, which continued to supply North Vietnam’s fight against South Vietnam and the United States.
North Vietnam’s eventual goal became not just the defeat and conquest of South Vietnam, but rather the creation of a pan-Indochinese nation. China was very concerned about having to fight a two front war against both the Vietnamese and the Soviets. As a result, the Chinese met with Henry Kissinger and later Richard M. Nixon, moving the nation into the American camp. For more information, see Sino-Soviet Split.
An important Chinese ally was Cambodia, under the control of Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge. Relations between Cambodia and Vietnam were very poor. The Cambodian regime began massacring ethnic Vietnamese inside Cambodia (see History of Cambodia). By 1978 the Cambodian government was supporting guerilla activities in western Vietnam.
On February 17, using the Vietnamese mistreatment of the ethnic Chinese minority and some territory occupied by Vietnamess as excuses, a force of 120,000 troops attacked over the countries’ shared border from Yunnan and Guangxi province. The Vietnamese put up stiff resistance, but the Chinese succeeded in advancing twenty-five miles inland. Experienced troops from the Vietnam War and the invasion of Cambodia were called up and helped halt the advance. A Vietnamese counter-offensive was launched against Hainan, but it was rebuffed.
On March 6 the Chinese called the punitive mission completed and began withdrawing their forces. They had been severely mauled, with an estimated 60,000 casualties and 20,000 killed. The Vietnamese had also suffered, losing an equal number of troops and about 10,000 civilians.
The “face” arguement that everyone just loves to randomly spout had little to do with the invasion of Vietnam. If anything, the desire to maintain a front of international communist solidarity while at the same time drawing other communists to an alternative to the Marxist-Leninist orthodoxy (face if you will) was what precipitated Chinese support for the North Vietnamese in the first place(In the post-French phase of the war). What ultimately caused China to invade after the Vietnam war ended however, was simple geopolitics. The wikipedia description is a bit rough around the edges and some details are lacking, but generally it is fairly accurate.
I just realized that both liberal and conservative Korean papers are viewing Gando as legit Korean territory. Which led me to the idea that during the Japanese occupation, Koreans were taught that Gando belonged to the Manchurians/Chinese. In 86 to 91, I clearly remember that except for Koguryo and Bal-Hae, school texts with maps of Koryo and Chosun did not show any part of Gando as Korean territory.
I speculate that Korean leaders from Syng Man Rhee to Dae Jung Kim had no reason to upset the Japanese taught way of looking at Gando, because there was a need to please the Chinese for economic reasons and security reasons. Besides, unification was remote, and even with unification, taking Chinese land is certainly impossible.
However, Moo Hyun Roh and his clan doesn’t think too hard about consequences. They speak first before thinking. That’s how I see these politicians. So Roh and the gang want to bring up this issue of Gando possibly to unite and divert public opinion. I think.
Same thing with bashing Korean baseball players who dodged the military service. Just uniting public opinion to somewhere else than Roh’s failure to improve the Korean economy.
This is quite dispicable but certainly possible, since what the Korean TV media spews out is state controlled.
I feel the same way about the Tsu-Rae-Gi Mandoo incidents.
Of course, I don’t credit myself for coming up with such an idea. The comment sections for the on line edition of Chosun are always filled with Roh’s incompetent ways and his attempts to divert public opinion.
Kit, good post.
I’m a Roh critic, but I think Roh was right to suggest that Gando Koreans became dual citizens of China and South Korea. Because I think letting them have South Korean citizenship will ease the pain and hardship of working in South Korea as Chosun Joks. Of course there is a possibility of most of them settling in South Korea for good. Which isn’t really good for South Korea. But, then again, I don’t think Roh thinks too hard. Action first, think later.
I met a fellow who says he was UK and US dual citizen. He was born in UK, but his parents are US citizens. Granted, the living standards are similar in these 2, but it would be in the good interest of the Gando Koreans to become dual citizens.
Kit it is not that the Chinese Government won’t let scholars out of China to go study in Korea. For a Chinese citizen to get a visa to enter South Korea is the problem. This past summer I tried to get a visa for my wife to accompany me to Seoul while I worked. Initially I was told that we would need to come up with approximately US$10,000 or a deed to a house to deposit to ensure that she would not remain in Korea. Some relatives offered to sign their home over to us to help us. Unfortunately when my wife returned to the embassy she was then told that she needed to have US$5,000 to take with her to prove she wouldn’t be destitute. It didn’t matter to them that her husband was already living in Korea and had a job there. In the end my wife never got to visit Korea.
This summer you may have seen the Asian Art show that was at COEX. A good friend of mine organized it. She was very disheartened that none of the Chinese artists that were going to have their work shown would be in attendance. They also could not get visas.
This is not just a problem for Chinese people in South Korea. I know first hand that it is getting incredibly hard for Chinese citizens to get into America also. The reason is that 10 years and more ago most Chinese citizens that left China did not return. That is not true any longer. The governments of the world are just a little slow adapting to change.
By the way don’t apologize about your English ability. I thought your post was great.
Marmot:
I looked at your map a few times. I don’t know if Vladivostok in teh Russian Maritime Province is inside there.
If myhistory is correct, this part of Russia was ceded by China in an “unequal treaty” - tho it was peacefully negotiated.
Do those ROK politicians want to lay claim to that patch as theirs was well? After all, this was Tungusic/Khitan/Manchurian grassland. Up to the late 19th century, the Manchurian court believed that the Koreans were speaking a Manchurian “dialect”.
If the ROK politicians want it, I don’t suggest they speak to Putin at this point, however. A bear with a sore tooth is a nasty one.
There’s a better way for Korea to reclaim Gando as Korean territory, than simply claiming it as “Korean” and shouting “we want it back”. (not that that’s necessarily what South Korea is shouting). That will only antagonize China unnecessarily while accomplishing very little. And I don’t think despite a very valid legal case that Korea has, international courts will not start a border war in North East asia by ruling that Gando is a Korean territory.
So what’s Korea’s option? I think the best option is to stay silent on this and conquer the former Manchurian territory which is now a home to a million ethnic Koreans, through culture and trade. South Korea should exert and redouble the effort to Koreanize the Korean etnic minority enclaves, even give these ethnic Korans, duel citizenships. You can see that the Koreanization of north east China is already happening when you go there and realize how popular South Korean pop culture, food, and travel destinations are. Many ethnic Koreans want to leave and are leaving China, for South Korea - turning entire villages into ghost villages.
I think this is one of the reasons why Chinese government is very nervous about Korean dispora in northern China, and ramifications of Korean reunification. China definitely does not want a Korean reunification - they would be the biggest losers.
I think you are being a little unrealistic Kimbob. The popularity of Korean pop culture at present has little political impact whatsoever in decision making by Beijing nor social trends in China at large. Granting ethnic Koreans in China dual citizenship is as pointless as shrilly demanding Gando back. The PRC simply does not recognize dual citizenship and for all intents and purposes, ethnic Koreans in China will not be treated any different than any other Chinese nationals. As for ethnic Koreans leaving China for South Korea en mass, I’m afraid this is simply not true unless the RoK has dramatically changed its visa policies on par with Israel. It is tortuously dificult for PRC citizens to get entry visas to the RoK as Eric mentioned and I would wager that things wouldn’t change all that much even if their grandfather happened to be Korean. Roh may talk big about granting ethnic Koreans living in China citizenship, but when push comes to shove, I doubt he would allow a million of them to resettle in the South. Even if this mass exodus you describe were true (which I believe it is not and merely wishful thinking) Northeast China is very much overcrowded with well over 200 million residents residing in what was Manchuria. If a couple thousand Koreans emigrate out of Gando, there are plenty willing to take their land.
If you really believe that the so-called “Korean wave” is somehow or can somehow be used to “Koreanize” manchuria in order to support Korean claims on territory, I believe you are well off the mark.
Can you point out the ghost towns in the Northeast to me I would very much like to visit them?
Kimbob:
Sorry, but I think it’s South Korea that has the most to fear, and lose, from reunification, in the near future anyway.
Just look at Germany - still counting the cost of re-unification with the East. Unemployment remains high, domestic demand slack - though, luckily, exports are strong.
ROK may be an Asian Tiger, but is not the same league as Germany. Can ROK pay the bills of Korean re-construction, without compromising its sovereign pride? (ie, without American, or worse, Japanese aid?)
Politicians may score brownie points with Sunshine policy, or re-uniting sobbing siblings, or talk about dual citizenship. But it’s just playing to the gallery. When it comes to the crunch about re-unification, can ROK really put its money where its mouth is?
Does China fear strong, resurgent Korea? No, it never has. What China fears - or perhaps dislikes - are American troops up close and personal (again!) across the Yalu.
On the other hand, this may work to Beijing’s advantage, as it might rally the country/party against the enemy on the doorstep.
Does America want Korean re-unification? Maybe. American hardliners would love a listening post right on China’s rump, to be a thorn in their side.
But America’s current Public enemy No 1 is global terrorism, not China. Both are allied (sort of) in this war. US thinking (for the moment, anyway)is to engage,not confront, China.
Do USA and PRC want to go to war again over Korea? No.
Conclusion: they don’t care, or lose, that much. SK stands to lose most.
Are you really sure about that? I don’t think so…
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