I really, really don’t want to blog on the latest Olympic drama to befall Korea. For that, I direct you to Jeff in Pusan’s excellent commentary on the gymnastic controversy (yes, it’s a four-parter). The Flying Yangban and Cathartidae also discuss it. I’ll say this — I can’t see how Hamm could be stripped of his medal, but at the same time, it would seriously, seriously suck if Yang Tae-young doesn’t get to share the gold. The kid busted his ass for years to get to the Olympics, and you don’t want to see him get screwed by official incompetence. It’s not like this was a subjective judgment thing — this was a clear screw up. Yes, the Korean team didn’t follow the proper protest protocol (which certainly doesn’t help matters), and some Korean netizens (most of whom are probably too young to remember Roy Jones Jr.) and some Korean journalists (most of whom do remember Roy Jones Jr. and should know better) haven’t exactly handled the situation gracefully. From what I can tell, the Korean Olympic team has been relatively classy in that they haven’t called for Hamm to lose his medal, and it seems (again, from what I’ve been reading second hand through the Korean media) that the U.S. media acknowledges that this was a major screw up.
Of course, what I want to know is whether Paul Hamm is related to Central Asia guru Nathan of The Argus (who has made the conversion to Wordpress).
Anyway, feel free to bitch away on the mess, either in my comments section or those of the blogs to which I linked.
115 Comments
The starting value of 10.0 is not a subjective error. The review of the tape of Yang’s ‘4-holds’ issue is subjective. The judges missed it. But if we are going to subject Yang to an actual replay of his whole performance then we must subject every single athlete to this. There is a difference between the error committed on placing the correct starting value for a specific performance and the scoring “error” committed during the actual performance.
I haven’t found the commentators on NBC fair at all, to put it mildly. This is particularly in regards to Al Trautwig. He’s been from the very beginning defensive on this, which is very much understandable but it is also to the point where the viewer can see his colors show; perhaps the red, white, blue, etc. But nevertheless NBC is a respected broadcasting network nation wider her in the US. Trautwig displays none of this. Most of the times he comes off haughty, and on the verge of losing his cool, on a broadcaster’s standard that is.
Remember even before the 4 point debacle was thankfully dug up by the American journalists, most of the US media had already taken a biased position towards the South Korean delegates petition. The 4 point stance is is merely a convenient tool right now.
Marmot I agree the SK delegates have been very respectful towards Hamm’s performance and have NOT demanded that he give up his medal. But this escapes the US media at the moment. And for some strange reason Hamm is quoted as saying that he does not understand what he did wrong, and that he does not understand why he is under attack. Exactly Hamm, nobody is accusing you of anything; you are actually not the target here. The judges are on trial, not you.
I agree with Shin; the Jeff in Pusan blog was idiotic; I couldn’t even finish it.
Last thing: I hope NBC does the right thing and fire Al Trautwig’s ass. He is way over the top, and the network should send his ass back to ESPN where all the jock idiots putter along. Excuse my french.
Poiboy, we did not whine, We went thought proper channels. Jamie Chalet was the pinnacle of sportsmanship. They we nothing but class. I suggest Korea do the same and perhaps they might have a wrong done right.
hweld: Gee. You should have finished reading. You would see that I agree with you on everything you said above. Hope that doesn’t make you idiotic too…?
Selena Roberts has a take on this at NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08.....berts.html
She’ll clear up why the US were in support of the Canadians. And as I recall even if they were Candian there was an overload of the figure skating couple even prior to the Salt Lake City games here in the US. They were the main story all the way leading up to their finals night.
My apologies if that is the case; I mean you’re right I should have finished it, but it was your descript of the first half or two thirds that I just felt came from nowhere…
But the point also is whether we agree on the final resolution to all this, doesn’t necessarily mean we really agree. A priest may want you to attench mass for religious/spiritual reasons. The church accountant may want you to come also, but for other reasons.
So here I go back to Pusan; frankly only been there once in my life.
My grandma: “dol-a wha-yo~~~~ Pusan hang eh~~~~”
The way I see it one has to either fight against every wrong judgement (who has time) or except that life just isn’t fair sometimes and judges make mistakes. Every effort should be made to make it as fair as possible but everyone who has played sports knows that bad calls and mistaks just happen. I agree with Paul Web that in the Olympics the only exception should be dopping and collusion by judges.
The Canadian case in the winter olympics found that the judges did collude- thus awarding the extra gold medal. Also, the Canadians were very classy and I respected them for it. They didn’t whine, sit down on the ice for hours to protest, cyber attack the olympic website or threaten anyones life. They simply said we know we skater our best- that is class.
This gymnastic case had clear mistakes but no collusion between judges has been found yet. Thus Hamm should at least keep his medal. Giving out another one is a bad precedent.
If people do want to reopen this case, they should watch all the videos and discount points for Yang’s mistake the judges also missed. But reopening this case would be opening a huge can of worms and making a bad precident.
I have to say that Korea is reacting better than they did during the Ohno case. Although there was no place to go but up. At least Korea acknowledge that the coaches made a mistake by not double checking that the judges scored it properly and that the coaches should have reported it earlier. No cyber attacks or death threats yet!!!!!
Here’s what one sports writer had to say about the controversy (he readily admits to being American and a gymnastics non-expert): “So why not a second gold medal? Why not accommodate the upset Koreans and send everyone home happy? Well for one thing, you can make a pretty good case that, if you’re going to go to the videotape, Yang shouldn’t have won.
Yes, the videotape of the parallel bars showed the judges erred by assigning a 9.9 start value. But it showed something else, too. In the course of his routine, Yang had four holds on the bar, when the rules allow for a maximum of three. The deduction for that mistake? Two-tenths of a point.
The judges missed it.”
Full article here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....ml?cnn=yes
Hey, the directory for that link should be /the_argus/ The redirect thing lies to you.
I’m still figuring things out (long story as to what’s happening) and will hopefully switch it over tonight to the proper directory.
As for Paul, and while we’re at it, Mia… at best, I am a distant relation. I am from the more slothful branch of the clan that presumably hails from Hamm, Germany.
Plus, as I have heard it, Paul uses the German pronunciation rather than the proper American one.
the koreans are correct here and need to be awarded the medal. why don’t you guys do some figure skating in salt lake where many of my fellow americans whined and whined until another gold was awarded.
marmot, you thought jeff’s post was excellent? i thought it was racist with his gross generalizations about the people he dates, marries, or has children with. disgusting.
initially felt that another gold should be awarded, but this four holds on the bar business is giving me pause…
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/.....id=1865378
whined until another medal was awarded? i thought that was the canadians.
Well, ShinJongIl, everything is an outrage to you. You are one of the millions of racist Korean men, a Korean racist, a korean klu klux klan pig…patrolling foreign sites is your racist assignment. Sieg URI! Sieg HANGOOK! etc…. SJI, we all despise you not for defending Korea, but for being a raving bigot.
doesn’t matter what the video tape ’says’; yang’s starting score was a ten regardless of what the judges thought. yang is the real winner. no wheaties box for hamm. sorry.
‘racist korean men…’
you mean, korean women aren’t racist? typical expat and so easy to see through. you all despise me? well, that’s because i through the shit you shit right back into your face.
so if the tape reveals that he was scored .10 less, does that mean he should also be deducted for the 4 holds?
Marmot, “The kid busted his ass for years to get to the Olympics, and you don?€™t want to see him get screwed by official incompetence.”
So you’re saying if he didn’t bust his ass to get the Olympics, he can be screwed by official incompetence? You’re also suggesting that Yang Tae-young busted his tail, but other athletes didn’t? Every athlete in the Olympics busted his or her tail to get there.
Marmot, “it would seriously, seriously suck if Yang Tae-young doesn?€™t get to share the gold.”
It would seriously suck if the Olympics start a precedent that events can be reviewed and changed after the awards ceremony. Results should be changed only if an athlete is caught doping or judges are found colluding to obtain a specific result. I was against the Canadian skating pairs getting the gold medal in 2002. The French judge had shady contacts with a Russian mobster, but there was no proof that she threw the event in favor of the Russians.
A result should not be changed because of the judges’ incompetence or human error. There is no precedent for this in the Olympics or in any other sport. If Olympic events could be reviewed due to error in judgement after the fact, at least a quarter of all Olympic events would be contested.
If Yang deserves the gold, then the following events should be cleared up in sports history:
The St. Louis Cardinals should be awarded the 1985 World Series along with the Kansas City Royals due to a blown call at first base in Game 6 of the series.
Enland should be awarded a third-place finish in the 1986 World Cup because of Maradona’s “hand of God.”
Spain should be awarded a fourth-place finish in the 2002 World Cup, because they would have beat Korea 1-0 in regulation if not for a phantom out-of-bounds call.
The Houston Oilers should be given the 1980 AFC Championship because Mike Renfro was ruled out-of-bounds when he was clearly in-bounds.
Colorado should forfeit their national championship in 1990 because they were mistakenly given a “fifth down.”
And the list goes on and on.
If Hamm was Korean, and Yang was American, I still think the result should remain unchanged.
Actually, it was the Korean coach who fucked up. On Sunday, the Olympic TV lead-in on NBC had the gymnastics color analyst who said that before every routine, the coaches go to the judges and make sure the bonus points are correct for the routine that will be performed by the athlete.
The Korean coach never double checked with the judges before Yang’s performance. The analyst also pointed out the four holds, referenced above. So in trying to save face the Koreans, as is their wont, will ignore the holds, whine about the judging, and igonore the fact that the real fuck-up is with the Korean coach who failed in his duty to Yang.
Selachian USA
I just came back from Pusan on the red eye. Jeff you may champion the sharing of the medal but you’re more disingenous about it and one can’t imagine who would take your argument seriously.
Please don’t lie. The fans of Americas were not well behaved. Do you not remember the Le Peltier’s (spelling) partner at her press conference right after and on for days. Come on. Look closer. Please
hweld: I am not disengenuous at all. If you don’t take me comment seriously, then that it your problem, not mine. In principle, whether or not Hamm is ALLOWED to keep his, I firmly believe that he should voluntarily surrender the gold medal. If he gives it to Yang, then that is his prerogative. If he returns it to the committee, then I think there should either be no winner or the gold goes to the silver, the silver to the bronze and the bronze to 4th.
If Hamm is allowed to keep his medal and chooses not to give it up, then if sincerely believe that the Korean deserves a joint medal.
Nothing about my position is incincere. Actually today’s post, when I get around to it, will be about why I think joint medals should be awarded.
If you are prejudiced against me and my opinions, there is nothing I can do about that.
-Jeff H.
lol Jeff. I’m thinking I clicked on a wrong link from Marmot……No but it appears not.
You:
“Either protest everything good and bad, or shut up and accept what comes……Giving two gold medals, one to Hamm and one to Yang. Wouldn’t that be nice? Why quit there? Why not do as Mr. Thiel suggested in the opening paragraphs of his article two years ago and “just give gold medals to all at the Winter Olympics, and let’s go home early.” Well, if not everyone, just make sure all Korean athletes get gold medals so that we don’t have to listen to this crap every olympics.”
Are we talking about the same thread?
By the way, we all want to be victims in this world don’t we. My prejudice against you……yes I must be the one with the disease; although that really wasn’t the case at all.
Marmot, where is your post button?
Your quote of me saying, “?€œEither protest everything good and bad, or shut up and accept what comes?€??€?Giving two gold medals, one to Hamm and one to Yang. Wouldn?€™t that be nice? Why quit there? Why not do as Mr. Thiel suggested in the opening paragraphs of his article two years ago and ?€œjust give gold medals to all at the Winter Olympics, and let?€™s go home early.?€? Well, if not everyone, just make sure all Korean athletes get gold medals so that we don?€™t have to listen to this crap every olympics,” was from PART II of my series of posts. That was before the error was confirmed. Of course before they were proven correct I was against double golds. It is pretty insincere of you to use quotes that were made BEFORE the error was acknowledged to support your statements about my position AFTER the mistake was caught.
If you will go to Part III of my posts, which was made AFTER the error was acknowledged, you will see my state, “I retract most of what I said yesterday and some of what I said earlier today. Yes. Filing the protest and claiming to be robbed was justified.”
In Part IV, you will see me state: “he should voluntarily surrender his medal. I don’t know how he could look at it every day proudly tell his children and grandchildren how he managed to sneak out of the games with the gold medal because the judges made a huge mistake and no one caught it until too late. Come on, Hamm, give it up.”
In the comments to that post, you will see me state, “As I have said before, Hamm should give up his medal, but I don’t think that means the Korean should automatically get the medal that was given up. However, if Hamm keeps his, I could support the Korean claim for a second gold.”
I just really have to say that all whining aside S. Corea and Yang were robbed. It’s also unfortunate that Hamm, instead of supporting his fellow Olympian, wants and has gotten his lock on the Olympic gold for this event.
I landed on your site because of that is where Marmot’s link took me. I did check part I, but I thought there were only two parts. I didn’t know there were III and IV. There was no quoting of your for the mere convenience of my point here, and that is just my honest answer to your suspect of me.
I guess I’m going to Pusan again.
Hweld: “I thought there were only two parts. I didn’t know there were III and IV.”
Explanation accepted. And I offer my apologies for my statement that “It is pretty insincere of you to use quotes that were made BEFORE the error was acknowledged to support your statements about my position AFTER the mistake was caught.”
okey dokey. It’s way late here. Good night.
to say that we need to look at video of all of yang’s performance to determine if he really is the gold medalist is insane because we already know that he is. he won, got it? while there are these convenient questions about three holds or four, there’s no question that the judges used the wrong score to judge him. we KNOW that. this isn’t about the performance of either person involved, this is about a serious error comitted by the judges. mr yang’s score was a ten before the event, during the event, and after the event. mr yang is the real winner here and if mr hamm doesn’t have the good grace to give uo his medal, then mr yang needs to be given one of his own so we can prevent him from being hammboozled.
totally unrelated but the chosun.com is indicationg that china has agreed to no longer claim koguryo as theirs.
if true, i’m glad the chinese made the right decision. the koreans are not the enemies of the chinese people and they are doing themsleves a favor by backing off this issue.
SJI — I’m not sure if you read the Arirang TV version at English Chosun or the Korean-version (courtesy Yonhap) at Chosun.com, but assuming you read the latter, the “verbal compromise” was rather ????§¤?????¤, and for all intents and purposes, it represented a return to a February agreement that didn’t work out so well. Will blog on it later after work. I guess it is a good first step, although one wonders how much of it simply trying to sweep the issue under the table ahead of the No. 4 CCP man’s visit to Seoul on Thursday to commemorate 12 years of diplomatic ties. I guess we’ll see, and I’m sure the analysis/spin doctoring will come fast and furious this evening.
Shin Jong Il, you write: “to say that we need to look at video of all of yang?€™s performance to determine if he really is the gold medalist is insane because we already know that he is. he won, got it?”
Actually, Shin, I don’t get it. He lost. That was the decision and it stands. Just as US and other Olympic contenders have lost in the past due to controvercial decisions. These things happen.
But what remains is the question of how the loser deals with the issue. What Jeff and others are trying to convey to Koreans is something considered integral to sports in the international arena that Koreans do not properly undertand - “sportsmanship”. This cultural glitch is unfortunatly giving Korea a poor international reputation.
Sportsmanship means that whether you win or lose, and regardless of whether you question the decision of the committee, you accept the outcome graciously and without raising all sorts of contentious, unsubstantiatable claims such as bias and so forth.
The effect of losing graciously is that, even if you lose, you win in others’ eyes. You are seen as a true Olympic champion who embodies the spirit of friendship that the games are supposed to represent.
It is a shame (for Korea) that at every Olympics, Koreans make some kind of nasty protest, often unwarrented, and then follow up with booing, shows of poor sportsmanship (like An’s skating parody on the playing field), internet hate male and even death threats against the athletes themselves and their country of origin, although neither of these can rightly be blamed for anything.
I’m on Korea’s side here in explaining that following the mob will discredit Korea to the world (Koreans are already gaining a reputation as sore losers). The patriotic thing to do is to teach Koreans what will truly make Korea respected in the international arena. Koreans quickly need to get their act together.
“Koreans quickly need to get their act together.
Comment by Mizar5 ?€” August,24 2004 (Tuesday) @ 8:17 pm ”
like kowtowing to the fat americans?
“like kowtowing to the fat americans?”
of course silly, didn’t you get the memo?
Mark Russel: “I do wish we could take all the nationalism out of the Olympics…and make the games just a celebration of pure athletics?€? let the athletes compete under the Olympic flag or something.”
Nationalism is indeed a problem in the Olympics. In Korea, the more appropriate term is tribalism (??¼??¼??¼???) which manifests as racism. Listening to the announcers on the Korean Olympic broadcasts, I am always amazed at their shrill and shameless partisanship. It is extremely unprofessional and I am curious why Koreans are not embarrassed by it and do not demand that their media be held to an international standard.
But the ugliest thing about the Korean attitude toward international sports is that, instead of thrilling in human accomplishment, they use sports as a means of beating their chest in their perennial confrontation with the world.
Ashamed of their weakness, Koreans have turned sports and other forms of international contact into an attack on those who excel, and an expression of racism. But average Koreans are not to be blamed for what the worst Koreans do. The blame lies with Korean leadership, or more accurately, failure to lead - failure to teach respect toward all people, the value of common courtesy and sympathetic commonality of all humanity.
?€œlike kowtowing to the fat americans??€?
of course silly, didn?€™t you get the memo?
Apparently not. And be careful who you’re calling fat. Lots of stories about Korean obesity nowadays in the papers.
To be fair to Shin, it should be pointed out that “sportmanship” is a multi-faceted thing. Yeah, there are ways to accept a loss (even a shitty one) and then there are way you don’t. But at the same time, sportsmanship seems to dictate that when you score a win on the kind of error that was made in this case, you take measures to rectify it.
Also, it should be pointed out that emotional (and dare I say obscene) fan behavior is phenomenon hardly limited to Koreans. Americans were pissed to hell when they got screwed by the Koreans and Soviets in 1988 in boxing and basketball, respectively, not to mention the kind of ugliness (or fun, depending on how you look at it) that accompanies a England-Argentina football match. And for that matter, when’s the last time you saw Korean soccer hooligans getting into fights abroad with local fans? Online hooliganism seems a lot better than having bands of skin-head Red Devils starting riots in the downtown areas of foreign cities. That’s not to excuse some of the nastier behavior exhibited by Korean sports fans online, but it does put it into slightly better proportion.
Paul Webb-
Marmot, ?€œThe kid busted his ass for years to get to the Olympics, and you don’t want to see him get screwed by official incompetence.?€?
So you’re saying if he didn’t bust his ass to get the Olympics, he can be screwed by official incompetence?
Ah, a little lesson in logic may be useful here.
p -> q implies ~q -> ~p (contrapositive), but not ~p -> ~q (inverse).
Substitute “busting ass for years” for p, and “don’t want to get screwed by official incompetence” for q, and you’ll see the flaw in your statement.
Sorry, just wanted to try making a wise-ass comment.
wooj, ?€œp -> q implies ~q -> ~p (contrapositive), but not ~p -> ~q (inverse).?€?
Fair enough. The inverse of a statement is not necessarily true. But then again, I believe that the world is flat.
Hamm deserves the gold medal, not Yang. In fact, Yang should be dropped to fourth place because of the 4-hold error he committed during his routine, which was missed by the judges. If the Koreans want to use the video to point out the mistake in Yang’s starting point, then the video should also be used to point out other missed mistakes in his performance.
By the way, last night SBS News suggested that Hamm’s silver-medal-winning score on the high bar was too high, given the simplicity of his routine. SBS Link However, ESPN said “Hamm’s performance was a picture of the Olympic ideal.” ESPN Link
Not to mention the general stupidity of people world over finding some kind of value in the achievements of athletes born in the same geographical locale as themselves. I do wish we could take all the nationalism out of the Olympics (not to mention rhythmic gymnastics, speed walking and synchronized swimming) and make the games just a celebration of pure athletics… let the athletes compete under the Olympic flag or something.
Btw, if you ever had the chance to check out Ian Buruma’s essay on the Seoul 88 Olympics and the history of the Olympic movement and how it was founded on fascist ideas, I highly recommend it. Buruma always kicks serious ass (and it might be his only essay to center on Korea).
mark–
I read that essay–a good one. But what was the name of the book? Was it “God’s Dust: A Modern Asian Journey (1989)”?
is anyone surprised gerry bevers takes the side contrary to korea’s? gerry is your grand dragon, folks.
yang is the true winner here and i’ve sent an email to hamm making fun of his atrocious behavior and helium shrill voice.
?€œlike kowtowing to the fat americans??€?
Do you honestly not understand the difference between common courtesy and kowtowing? Or are you using the strawman fallacy to lampoon the Korean racial inferiority/self absorbtion complex?
Shin, Yang is not the winner simply because you assert that he is; it is the rules of the sport determine the winner. This argument is known as a begging the question, a fallacious argument in which the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises rather than proven.
Second, impugning Hamm’s behavior is what is known as a red herring fallacy. It is immaterial to the subject, besides which, it is false. He has behaved with class rather than shrillness.
What it comes down to is that you are disgruntled over a decision you do not agree with. It happens to everybody. Directing anger at the wrong persons is genetic fallacy and undermines the argument you are trying to make - although its unclear precisely what that argument is.
Mizar, not to be picky, but “tribalism” (actually, ethnic nationalism) is ??¼?¡±??¼???, not ??¼??¼??¼???, which means “democracy.”
Yes, a typo. Thanks for the correction
seems mizary5 has been chewed up and spit out by the great people of koguryo, paekche, and shilla. he should call mr marmot for tips on how to be strong and tough for that is what you need to be if you wanna hang with the people of the yemaek.
hamm’s behavior has been atrocious and is cited as proof by the world media of american arrogance and selfishness. of course, many americans including matt lauer think the kid with freckles needs to give up the gold he did not earn but such voices are being drowned out by the shrill and girlie voice of hamm and his accomplices. hamm has hammboozled yang.
misery5, please don’t use me as instrument in your therapy, ok? watch ‘hwnangsan beol’ and see koreans killing koreans. that should give you a boner.
They should just give Yang a gold also and let everyone be happy. I mean, BFD folks. It’s just a game! The classy thing to do when the mistake was caught would have been to give them both gold medals. Everyone saves face. But then this would have been a foreign concept to some people. That winner take all mentality really upsets the ‘wa’.
Aletheia - I read the Buruma essay in “The Missionary and the Libertine”… don’t know if it has been republished elsewhere.
“The classy thing to do when the mistake was caught would have been to give them both gold medals. ”
Ridiculous. The classy thing to do is to abide by the rules of the tournament. If the rules say that all protests are considered invalid after a certain time period, then tough luck.
I don’t believe the coaches’ claim that they were told to wait until later to file a complaint. Did the coaches point out who told them to do so, or did they just complain to the domestic media as such?
So who sucks the most?
A) the judges for screwing it up in the first place
B) the Korean team for not understanding Olympics policies and/or not being able to communicate adequately and/or pinning the blame elsewhere
C) Paul Hamm for not giving up his medal because the Korean coaches didn’t understand Olympic policy
D) Paul Hamm for being from Wisconsin
E) The Olympics for being the Olympics
F) The blog community for caring enough about this crap to spend more than 1 minute thinking about it
More importantly, what time does the resulting anti-Hamm anti-US anti-SOFA pro-reunification pro-labor wage increase candlelight vigil start?
Mark –Right, that’s the one! Thanks!
Shin Jong Il, your ad hominem fallacy is noted. It is also a classic form of genetic fallacy (lacking a valid argument, plant seeds of doubt about the person) and contains elements of straw man and red herring.
In other words, uphold toughness as you do, you lack the mental toughness to put forth a coherent argument without resorting to cowardly and fallacious tactics. Accept this as an on-topic criticism of your method rather than your ploy of ad hominem fallacy intended to distract one from the point at hand.
As for “hanging with the people”, I’ve been doing that successfully since 1978 (that’s 26 years). You think Koreans are tough, do you? I remember when they really were, having lived here during the Park administration. Among today’s feminized Korean men, balls are a scarcer than pockets in a nudist colony.
Fortunately, there are still some tough-minded guys like me around who can expose the logical inconsistencies of the weak-minded folks who work contrary to national interests in the name of “national pride”.
Sorry about the tough love, Shin. I don’t have anything against you; I’m only here to help. Hang around and benefit from the education.
OK, Shin, now to address your “argument”. You write:
“hamm?€™s behavior has been atrocious and is cited as proof by the world media of american arrogance and selfishness.”
Cited by whom? American arrogance and selfishness? Says whom? These are subjective claims, lacking substantiation. This fallacy is known as petito principii, which occurs when the premises are at least as questionable as the conclusion reached. Typically the premises of the argument implicitly assume the result which the argument purports to prove, in a disguised form, to wit: he is arrogant because people of his nationality are arrogant.
Most important, your response is irrelevent to the topic at hand (ie. red herring fallacy -introducing irrelevant material to the issue being discussed, so that everyone’s attention is diverted away from the points made, towards a different conclusion).
I asked you to explain why Hamm’s behavior is atrocious and you respond by attacking his nation of origin and also by asserting that others have alleged it.
“of course, many americans including matt lauer think the kid with freckles needs to give up the gold”
argumentum ad numerum. This consists in asserting that the more people who support or believe a proposition, the more likely it is that that proposition is correct. Many Americans also believe that Elvis is alive. Their asserting it does not make it true.
The Matt Laur argument is a use of the appeal to authority fallacy (argumentum ad verecundium).
“he did not earn but such voices are being drowned out by the shrill and girlie voice of hamm and his accomplices. hamm has hammboozled yang.”
OK, let’s hear a valid instance to support your argument. So far you have merely wasted our time with generalizations and imprecise rhetoric.
You appear to resort to the common Korean tactic of abandoning rigorous analysis in favor of argumentum ad nauseaum - the belief that an assertion is more likely to be accepted as true, the more often it is heard. By employing constant repetition in asserting something and saying the same thing over and over again, the result is that people reinforce their own belief without managing to convince anyone outside your the circle. It is a frog-in-the well technique that simply doesn’t work in the rest of the world.
Shin, personally, I couldn’t care less what your opinion is on the subject (if it can even properly be called an opinion; more accurately a reflection of national brainwashing). All that matters to me is to hold you to a higher standard in argument.
If you feel strongly enough about your position, you should be willing to support it in a defensible manner rather than resorting to name-calling and appeal to force. You cannot expect to force acceptance of an argument based on outshouting your opponant. If you want your position to gain acceptance, the onus is on you to explain and support it logically and dispassionately. Barring that, you are only bringing discredit to your argument and yourself. And if a large number of Koreans do it, guess who they discredit.
mizary5, surely, you’re a joke.
devasting retort shin!
Giselle Davies, the spokesperson for IOC, has been quoted as saying that unlike the Canadian Russian case in 2002, Yang Taeyoung’s incident has not generated any “flood of e-mails.”
http://quote.bloomberg.com/app.....fer=europe
Hence to the show and voice of public opinion goes the spoils. But I have to add that nowhere on the IOC webpage nor the IGF webpage have I found a contact e-mail address to express my concern about the issue. I find this very deceptive. I couldn’t even find one for the webmaster. It isn’t crazy to assume that after the 2002 experience, the IOC made a conscious decision to not post their e-mail contact on the site. But I manage to get it by sheer luck: emu@olympic.org
By the way, is “tribalism” exclusively Korean?
By the way, is “tribalism” exclusively Korean?
Also note that here in the US the media is not even mentioning that the Korean coach verbally made a petition during the competition, only to be told to put it in written form thereafter.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/arti.....DT0604.DTL
there’s also a clip of him at Letterman’s site but fuck I can’t get it to load on my ancient comp.
Kablam!
Woah, Shin. Better stand up, dust yourself off, and go back to freshen up on your logic books before spouting anymore of your nationalistic bullshit around here.
There’s a new sherrif in town and his name is Mizar5.
You’re out of your league and there’s no volume button on the message board. So your shouting can’t be heard.
O’ Pilsung Corea!
Asia by Blog
Time again to check out the best that Asian blogging has to offer… Hong Kong, Taiwan and China Hong Kong will get universal suffrage, says the CCP. It just has to pick the right candidates first. While on HK elections, ESWN follows the latest efforts…
the incident here involves a miscalculation by the judges. it has nothing to do with the performance of either of the players. yang’s score should have been a ten and was a ten when the judges made their error. yang is the real winner here but i understand you conservatives are ok with these kinds of things, just look at that freak in the white house.
hamm’s behavior has been atrocious and to me simply ungracious. rather than being a hero, he reinforced in people’s mind the selfishness that many people around the world associate with america. and btw, i’m american whether you or anybody else here accepts that, i can talk about my country if i want to and can indeed make comment on my fellow american, mr hamm. mr hamm has tried to cloud the issue by asking whether yang’s performance was really the best, and then with his accomplices, trots out video to show where yang needed to lose points from the judges. at the same time, he has some of his cronies suggest that yang should have really earned the bronze. that may be gracious in your book but not in mine.
and if that isn’t enough, nbc ran a frame-by-frame of yang on the high bars and then proceeded to show us the four holds in question. that’s fine but then they failed to show hamm on the pommel horse losing so many points he would have been knocked out of the competition. you’re blind to the fact that nationalism lives right here in the us as well. not just in korea folks.
hamm’s spotlight will be fleeting unlike the tarnish on his precious gold.
yang is the true winner.
hweld wrote: “By the way, is ?€œtribalism?€? exclusively Korean?”
Nope, next question.
“Also note that here in the US the media is not even mentioning that the Korean coach verbally made a petition during the competition, only to be told to put it in written form thereafter.”
That’s because it’s hearsay, reported exclusively - so far as I know - in the Korean media, which is notorious for its bias and unreliability, which makes it initially suspicious. So it’s rather hard to give it much credence at this point. Let’s leave that to the committee to find out and see what develops.
But cutting through all the legal maneuvering and BS, let’s just get right to the heart of the matter to determine who really wants to steal the gold medal from whom. In other words, let’s forget all the legalistic nonsense for a moment and talk pure sports. If the Korean team’s law suit results in a thorough review of the Yang’s performance, the results will show that, even accounting for the scoring error, he touched the bar 4 times instead of 3 and so his performance simply did not rise to the gold medal standard set by Hamm.
So the question is: does Korea really want to obtain a gold medal regardless of merit? Are they so desperate for a medal that they don’t mind shamelessly embarrassing themselves in the eyes of the world by whining and maneuvering to get their hands on something they weren’t officially awarded?
As a truly patriotic (not blindly nationalistic or triumphalistic) Korean, I say let it go. A people show the real timber of their character by their sporting spirit and graciousness toward their fellow sportsman, not by their ungraciousness and ugliness in the pursuit of a meaningless honor.
What is especially embarrassing to Korea is the manner in which some misguided individuals will blame the athlete and his nation (neither of which were responsible for the decision) for what they percieve to be a deliberate injustice of the strong against the weak.
I call such simple-mindedness the arrogance of the weak - those who are weak not because they are legitimate victims, but because they thrive on victimhood fof a sense of national identity. Such weak-minded individuals invent injustices where none exis simply to vent their “han” at someone - anyone who happens to make a good target. Korea can live without this ugliness and self-imposed weakness. It can be better than this. It can be a strong nation, a nation based on principle, sincerity and effort.
You asked if tribalism is a strictly Korean trait. No, it is not. But Korea is one of the top manifestors of it. And it is deletarious to Korea as a nation. Hamm and the US Olympic authorities have graciously expressed a willingness to review the decision. When Korea learns to express itself with such quiet dignity and mutual respect for others, it will cease to be a nation of whining, squabbling adolescents and become a fully functional adult society and can then regain their rapidly eroding international image and status.
I look forward to this because it is better than the alternative - a nation that is increasingly marginalized, scorned and continually weakened from within.
When Korea puts behind the false nationalism of churlishly counting gold medals and recovers from the current state of self-absorbtion, self-congratulation and self-pity, it will emerge as a truly worthy and strong nation who can compete with the best on its own merits, rather than through handouts and wheedling. Isn’t this what true patriotism is about?
“hamm?€™s spotlight will be fleeting unlike the tarnish on his precious gold. yang is the true winner.”
In one tiny nation only. To the rest of the world he has already become a footnote burried in fine print. But Korea can at least take perverse pride in feeling wronged even knowing that Yang did not perform to Hamm’s standard.
Mizar,
The parting of the clouds and the ringing of heavenly trumpets; true patriotism indeed. But this aside I agree with much of your concern about the pettiness of this issue and to the degree it has percolated in the media—if nothingelse, the Korean media. But, I take exception to your charge that the South Korean delegates nor Yang Taeyoung himself is being whiny here. Note, that it is nether of them at Athens that have voiced some petty whine directed at the olympic officials. For example they have not insinuated that the results were set up in the American’s favor to begin with. In the least, they have conducted themselves respectfully in the exterior and I am glad that they have done so. If there is anyone to “blame” for the degeneracy of the gold debacle it is the media (perhaps) but more rightly the bloggers like us out there who leave snippets of angry comments without much support for their conclusions. But then again I’m no so willing to point fingers solely at them folks because I understad that for an event like the olympics, it is about “ones nation;” it is about supporting ones own country, and if you allow me, ones own people—minjok. The suggestion of an olympic flag commemorated at the medal ceremony, I understand the merits of; but it would also be inhuman for us to expect such a ritual when in fact at the bottom of our affections symbolic praise for ones own—the “our own”—cannot be completely let go of.
I am not too aware of the specifics of the “bias” of the Korean media, but hey, the bias of whoever is really his own prerogative. You are presupposing that the American media is the standard bar for objective journalism when in fact we know very well such a claim is much more difficult to come by. We explicitly experienced this with the imbedded journalists during the Iraq invasion, we know of the controversy over the portrayal of Palaestinians or Israelis over their territorial dispute; but in specific regard to the media portrayal of Yang in the US, I have to again say that I am very dissapointed. For example, none of the American journalists have got in touch with the Korean coach nor the Korean athlete; only too give quotes of the US coach and athlete. Obviously there is a language barrier, but again, if you want to appear more objective in the inquiry rather than to pander to the preconceived emotions of the American audience, I believe the American reporters can certainly do better.
And although it does feel embarassing to open up the NYT to see pictures of Korean men wearing Kokurhyu armor in their protest over Chinese textbook falsification and the women bent over praying to God as if he gives a shit nor has any relevance to the political questions of Korea, they are who they are. Perhaps they are not as well traveled as yourself, being able to balance the views of the US and Korea hand in hand; to see the world from a wider angle. But what alternative do you suggest in the now for men of their passing age? Our sense for the primordial identity will always stay with us. Doing so at the great peril of others is certainly unacceptable but to dismiss it altogether would also be dangerous—-dangerous in the way one sees the zeolotry and naively idealistic strains of Noh’s vision of politics, to take an example.
There is also an important difference between the error made in the starting value of a performance—a quantifiable mistake prior to competition—and error made by the judges during the progress of the athlete’s performance. The 4 holds takes place within the frame of a judge’s prerogative, which all—the audience and sportsman alike—give it the benefit of the doubt. Yet the starting value is predetermined prior to the athlete’s performance. Yang’s 10 point starting value was set prior to the realm of the judges subjective scoring; it does not require a video replay for the judges understand that they have made a mistake.
And to a previous post; yes I too have come across that piece by Buruma. I believe the title was “Seoul 88″ or something to that generic effect. I don’t have the book with me anymore but from the top of my head Buruma also takes on the ugly side of “tribalism” in Korea. He depicts how senseless it seems that some Koreans believe in the worthiness of their Korean heritage that led to the 88 hosting. He also mentions Koreans who talk about the second coming of jesus in Korea; but this I’m not sure. But with my years spent in Korea I for one never came across a Korean who believed in some racial superiority of the Korean “tribe” nor have I heard this nonsense about how the next Jesus will be Korean. As much as I appreciate Buruma’ perspective, I found the piece to be too preoccupied with the silliness of the “other,” and much more focused on the outliers of the larger picture at hand. I remember the 88 Seoul. I was there too as a young boy. And I make no apologies for being proud to the host of an international event for a country that had been literally leveled to the ground in the 50’s.
i see you skip my main point, mizary5. i understand why. four holds, three holds, pommel horse, whatever since none of that is really the point. yang’s score. no way to argue that.
all of the material i have on this is from the us press, not korea’s. and if you looked at google last week, there were usually around two hundred to three hundred articles on the subject mostly from the AMERICAN press. contrast that with the subject of koguryo where there is a grand total of 30 to 40 articles almost all of which comes from korea.
and as for your comments about attacking hamm:
‘does the whiney south korean want to win without it being based on merit?’ mizar5
i know where you get your skills at debate, mizary; fox news network, right? hannity and ******, right?
my focus is on a mathematical error while yours is on some videotape which has nothing to do with yang’s score of ten.
‘change the angle of the subject at hand when in doubt.’ sean hannity
ps you’re korean? i’ll bet that’s a lie.
USA women’s final soccer match as case in example.
On the 39th minute, US striker Kelly Womback scores a goal on the Brazilians right after an assisted pass from midfielder Brandi Chastain. However, Brandi hand-balled prior to the pass. NBC has close up camera shots from all different angles at the ready. But they do not show a replay of Chastain’s hand-ball while they keep on showing the replays of other collisions and snipets and shots by the players, especially the fouls committed by the Brazilian girls. The announcer states that they will take a look at Chastain’s suspected pass during halftime but the viewer is only shown of Chastain’s hand-ball from the general wide angle eagle eye camera view, where the players only appear miniscule as ants on the television screen—making it very difficult to see if Chastain had hand balled or not. And this is only shown once. But that’s not the revealing part; NBC then chooses to show Womback’s goal repeatedly over and over again (which is not the problem), but in closeup slow motion from an array of different angles. Chastain had only passed Womback the ball a second prior to the scoring. And to pretend that a closeup camera view of Chastain’s handballed pass was somehow unavailable to NBC… So this issue of “tribalism” and Koreans; and this media bias being predominantly Korean?…
But good for the Brazilian girls. On a 1 on 4 offensive, the left forward scores a goal for a 72nd minute tie.
pss mizary5, write back if you like but i’m done with the subject.
Correction: it was not Womback who had scored but a Tarpley; some cute looking blond.
Shin: “I’m done with the subject”
Interpretation: “I know I’m beat. I don’t have a logical leg to stand on, but I rely on my Korean pride to see me through.” Exit, stage right.
Where would Koreans be without a dose of “Han” to wear on their sleeves?
“youre korean? i?€™ll bet that?€™s a lie.”
Why is it even an issue? Is it a concession that Koreans are tribal and disparagement of those who do not adhere to the sanctioned opinion?
Pardon me, I forgot that you’re through with me and will exercise the discipline to avoid peeking at what I’ve written.
I don’t know who hannity and ****** are, but I have addressed your issues and not misquoted you to present a strawman argument as you do (” ‘does the whiney south korean want to win without it being based on merit??€™ mizar5″ Where I come from quotation marks indicate an exact quotation, although I have observed that they are used much more liberally in the Korean press. Where did you get your debating techniques from?
Roy Jones Jr. Yes the best pound for pound fighter I’ve ever seen. But I don’t follow you Mizar. Are you suggesting that those who support Yang Taeyoung are similar to those corrupt fellows who got the South Korean boxer a gold in 88?
And believe me I respect Jones as a fighter very much; but also believe he was at his top in the early 90’s and never pushed himself fully to challenge the best boxers out there. He also rejected his silver by refusing to show for the ceremony; but who could blame him.
“Pardon me, I forgot that you?€™re through with me and will exercise the discipline to avoid peeking at what I?€™ve written.”
hweld, you write
“But, I take exception to your charge that the South Korean delegates nor Yang Taeyoung himself is being whiny here.”
Rest assured that I did not charge that. We’re talking about the media in broad terms and popular expression. I am pointing to attacks on the integrity of the athelete and his nation of origin simply for a decision some people may disagree with. It would be self-negating to impugn the athlete to make that point.
You also write “But with my years spent in Korea I for one never came across a Korean who believed in some racial superiority of the Korean ?€œtribe?€?”
How is it you can presume knowledge of what people believe? I have experienced expressions of this belief, read it in print and heard it in the media. It is implicit in media bias that sites like this have arisen to expose. Keep reading, keep listening. Other than this, I agree with most of what you have to say.
Let me clarify that tribalism is an English equivalent for a Korean term that may not be translatable. Min Jok Ju I means upholding one’s people, race, tribe. It is extrememly strong among Koreans who claim pride in their supposed honogeneity as a single, pure race (although geneticists point out the inaccuracy of the supposed Korean racial purity). When there is pro-US bias in the US media, this is not “tibalism” or “racism” or whatever you want to call it, because the US “tribe” is not considered a homogenious Min Jok. A more accurate point of comparison would be along racial terms, much as I dislike opening up another can of worms right now. Race/culture/nationality all figure together in Min Ju Ju I. What it leads to is irrational nationalism.
Now nationalism has a place in the development of a nation, and Park Chung Hee wisely harnessed it in reviving Korea from the ashes and going even beyond that to make Korea a modern, advancing nation. But it has an ugly, petty side, and a side that runs counter to national interests. And given the current leadership vaccuum, it is this side that is triumphing and leading Korea down the garden path.
To decry the ugly side of Min Ju Ju I is to do one’s duty as a patriotic person who wants to bring Korea into step with the world.
I hate quoting people, especially in a blog but,
“Now nationalism has a place in the development of a nation, and Park Chung Hee wisely harnessed it in reviving Korea from the ashes and going even beyond that to make Korea a modern, advancing nation. But it has an ugly, petty side, and a side that runs counter to national interests. And given the current leadership vaccuum, it is this side that is triumphing and leading Korea down the garden path.”
To that statement I could not agree more. I too am no fan of irrational nationalism yet find absolute value in the certain positive and necessary function that it serves for nations, particularly in its earlier phase of developing and sustaining a vigorous economy. And to your mention of the lack of leadership in present Korean politicking is extremely appalling indeed. There has to be a sense for statesmanship in SK politics or else it remains the story of a viscious cycle. (you know as an aside, I see on Oranckay’s site that Noh has written some book about his mannam with Lincoln; I almost puked in my seat. Of course access to Korean books are difficult for me but I presume that Noh focuses on Lincoln’s role on the Emancipation Proclamation and the equality principle, but if he really knew the kind of president Lincoln was for the troubled times of the Civil War era and the ways in which he dealt with insidious factions that tried to split the Union, Noh would stop his nonsense)
I don’t argue that that in the US the sense for “tribalism” is the same as those nations with a homogeneous population; in fact the differences in the races is what makes the US unique—while I’ve also met some Americans who believe it is a curse. But it would be important to focus on the cultural tradition rather than the genes in the blood to define a homogeneous tribe. If we were to put every nation to that test of pure racial heritage, none would pass; however, you still have to acknowledge that it is ones common language, tradition, beliefs, etc. that are shared by a people that makes them a “tribe.” But even after that the US still remains an exception because of its federalism principle—its preponderance for states’ rights. What is states’ rights after all; it is to limit the national government from creating policies that affect people from distant states. But what does that mean? It means that one aknowledges the fragility of breaking up the ways and culture of differing communities—hence slavery, desegregation, school policies, functions of local govt—the very things that irk people when a distant government messes with it. Included in this is the incomprehensible ways of a local community, its sense for bias and prejudice, and an overall irrational approach to universal principles. I mean how do you think the various immigrant communities survived; it is precisely because they held on to their quirks, prejudices and biases against the “other” while gradually letting it go over the generations. The Know-Nothings of American history to take one example; but of course there are even more serious examples than this.
Minjok Juwe is a rule of the people—rule of the nation’s people that is. It isn’t necessarily tribalism per say, but by translation more equivalent to nationalism—something I value and I know a lot of Americans value.
Anyhow, my concern over the media portrayal of the Hamm Yang debacle was due to how the US press has dressed the incident. They fail to point out that the SK delegates are not asking for Hamm’s medal. But also Hamm himself makes it appears as if the SK’s are viciously attacking him.
One more thing, pride—whether it may be irrational or not—is unfortunately or fortunately a necessity. But I guess we agree on that. Yes, focus away from the racial aspect and concentrate on the actual positives of Korea’s cultural traditions that has been able to sustain and defend, and even in the fall enable one to rise back up again through its experiences of the past. The confidence in the idea and spirit of ones own is a must.
of course, i couldn’t resist!
‘i know i’m beat.’
well, not at all, i know i’m right and there’s just no sense in talking about it anymore with the excpetion of slapping you back here, bitch.
‘if i were him, i’d give back the medal…’ president of the international gymnastics association which administers olympic gymnastics.
‘without the MATHEMATICAL error, yang would have won the gold.’ above organization
‘hamm is selfish and a poor example of sportsmanship. yang is the real winner.’ shin jong il
‘attack hamm? how dare they!’ mizary5
‘the whinney koreans!’ mizary5
you can’t even practice what you preach.
just curious, if yang really feels like he got jobbed out, why did he accept the bronze? why didnt he refuse to accept it like the us basketball team after they got jobbed to the soviets and jones got jobbed to the korean?
Heeeeee’s back.
Just couldn’t resist coming back for more could you shinny?
Hit and run, hit and run. I bet you learned to drive in Korea too, dincha?
ENOUGH! ENOUGH! ENOUGH!
yeah, i got the name of the organization i cited above wrong; it’s actually the ‘international gymnastics federation’. they sent a letter to hamm today asking him to give up his gold. guess the smoke screen of the ‘four holds’ didn’t wash. but it did with mizary5 who last night got his mouth shut by me, mista shin.
‘yang is the real winner.’ shin jong il
‘yang is the real winner.’ international gymnastics federation
‘i’ll do whatever the international gymnastics federation decides.’ paul hamm, last week
‘please give up your tarnished gold.’ international gymnastics federation, today
‘I’M NOT GIVING UP MY GOLD!!!!’ cried paul hamm via a spokesman
now, i can rest my case.
If FIG doesn’t have the balls to just go ahead and strip Hamm of the gold, then they shouldn’t be publicly stating Yang the victor. Now they’re transferring resposibility for their own mistake onto Hamm. They’re effectively saying, “Yeah we know we said you won and we gave you that shiny medal, but we kinda f’d up and now everyone is pissed and we don’t want to take the heat for giving the medal to Yang ourselves, but were going to tell everyone that he’s the real winner anyway, so would you please take care of this for us, thanks buddy.”
The USOC has changed its position of supporting a second gold for Yang Taeyoung. With the recent IGF letter requesting the return of the gold from Hamm, all of a sudden the USOC tries to act paternal by stating that it is in full support of Hamm, when in fact Mr. Hamm was initially left to himself completely unaware of the specifics of the scoring error, the petition for the second gold, etc. In effect, Hamm presumed wrongly that the South Koreans were petitioning for a revoke of the gold; hence, the world has seen Hamm’s unsportsmanlike defensiveness. But what is more amazing is that he had been so adamant against the idea of a second gold even when at an earlier time the USOC were very much supportive of it as well as the IGF and IOC—yes, both of them.
There was that window of opportunity where Mr. Yang Taeyoung could have been awarded his due. Now it seems Yang is one who truly loses out over this game of jeers between the IGF, IOC and USOC
The late USOC reaction rejecting the second gold for Yang Taeyoung is childish and can only be seen as a temperamental knee jerk kick from an organization who had failed to address this issue properly from the very beginning. To those concerned: media@usoc.org; emu@olympic.org
Yes I agree that IGF is being very irresponsible here—at the very peril of Mr. Yang Taeyoung himself. But remember if we are to talk about initiative here, USOC should not renege on their original support for Mr. Yang Taeyoung’s gold. That is also absurd.
“Although Grandi’s letter says, “The true winner of the all-around competition is Yang Tae-young,” the FIG president insisted he’s not pressuring Hamm.”
??????
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ge=printer
on other news, hamm just tested positive for helium.
FIG has made mistake after mistake. They are losing any sense of credibility here. Either officially strip Hamm of his medal, award another one to Yang or let Hamm keep his medal. To say to Hamm that it would be the ultimate in sportsmanship if he gave up his medal because Yang is the true champion after the FIG made a scoring mistake in favor of Yang of 2 points for 4 holds and not 3 that would have put him in Fourth place is ridiculous. FIG has dug a mighty big hole and it is continueing to dig with this latest statement
‘hamm tested positive for helium.’
lol.
Oh hi, hweld, I’m sorry I missed your question earlier. I guess I sort of lost interest in the subject. The issue was merely of passing interest as another episode in the sociological freak show that is Korea. Especially this Korean paranoia thing of ours whereby we Koreans read all sorts of dark racial plots into innocent situations when in fact the rest of the world really don’t hate Korea - or like it for that matter. I’ve lived in the US and I realize that the rest of the world basically disregards Korea. We’re a big nothing in their eyes, and deservedly so.
The fact is, we Koreans have never done anything to engage the world or to give back to it for all the help we’ve recieved and so we really have no right to demand respect we haven’t earned. We’re completely self-absorbed and truly see ourselves as the center of the universe.
That’s why when there’s an Olympic call we don’t like, we read anti-Koreanism into it and, when there is an injustice committed against non-Koreans, we simply don’t care. We only pretend to love peace and justice when it serves our purposes.
Some of us who are not fooled by the media understand that the US soldiers here observe our laws more than we do ourselves, a fact we find so embarrassing that we continually invent ways to distort our crime statistics to make it seem as though there is some sort of foreign crime spree.
Whenever we are shocked by our own inhumanity, we find a way to blame the US for that too. Take Kwangju, an incident the US had no involvement in - some of us continue to seek a way to turn our guilt into anger by scapegoating the Americans for that.
The US saved our asses from the Japanese, but we invent ways to make it seem that they are the invaders and abusers. But thats how we Koreans are - we repay kindness and good will with resentment and prejudice. We deflect our shame in being powerless onto those who are strong. We whine, assign guilt where there is none.
The Olympics are always a poplular forum for us to frame America for our own failings. When one of our skaters is disqualified, we blame America for corruption the judges were not American and the disqualification was legitimate. We blame the skater for cheating, although he did no such thing.
Thank god the FIC played right into our hands this time through their incompetence. It was their incompetence that got Yu into the medal run in the first place although he should have been docked points for his routine from the start and never been in the running for a medal to begin with. And then it was their incompetence that assigned him too low a starting value and created the current controversy.
How dull and boring it would have been had Yang just won the gold. That’s not what we Koreans