After some marathon negotiating, it appears a “verbal understanding” has been reached in the Sino-Korean Koguryo dispute. Courtesy the Korea Times:
China promised it would no longer attempt to misrepresent the history of the ancient kingdom of Koguryo, calling a halt to the first round of the “history battle?????????? between the two nations which marked the 12th anniversary of diplomatic ties Tuesday.
Seoul and Beijing reached a five-point “verbal understanding” to address the bilateral dispute on kingdom of Koguryo (37 B.C.-A.D. 668), South Korea’s Foreign Affairs-Trade Minister Ban Ki-moon said at the National Assembly.
“China well knows that the Koguryo issue has emerged as a serious problem between the two nations,” he told lawmakers. “Both sides share the view that this historical issue should not undermine bilateral relations.”
The vaguely worded “understanding,” which Seoul officials said is still diplomatically binding, was reached at the end of lengthy closed-door discussions between the two countries’ vice foreign ministers on Monday.
While giving a background briefing to reporters at Seoul?????s Foreign Ministry, a senior diplomat said that although absent from the verbal understanding, China also pledged not to lay claim to Koguryo in its history textbooks to be revised soon.
“China promised that there would be no more government-level, central or provincial, attempts to distort the history of Koguryo,” he said on condition of anonymity.
Beijing, however, did not accept Seoul’s demand that it restore its Foreign Ministry’s Web site to its original state before the history dispute began.
In April, the Chinese ministry deleted references to Koguryo from its Web pages on Korean history. This action, which followed a series of similar moves by state-sponsored academic and media organizations, was interpreted by Seoul as an apparent attempt by China to claim the kingdom as part of its own history.
South Korea strongly demanded the references be restored, but China, instead of complying with the call, removed the entire description of Korea?????s history up until 1948, when the modern Republic of Korea was founded.
China’s latest action came after it apparently recognized that it would not benefit from the history dispute developing into a full political row. A rising business powerhouse, Beijing might have feared side effects, facing pressure from Washington, Tokyo and Seoul, experts said.
Read the rest on your own, and there will be more blogging on this later this evening. For now, it would seem this is a step in the right direction, and definitely a welcome development. That being said, the wording was extremely vague, the National Assembly is apparently unhappy at the “abstract” nature of the agreement, and I don’t think we’re anywhere near the end of the issue.
30 Comments
Knowing the exact wording of the ‘verbal’ agreement would be helpful, but if it was only verbal, there will be no exact wording released, I guess (or did they write it down?). I would bet my bottom dollar that the Chinese didn’t use the expressions “no longer attempt to misrepresent” and “no more government-level, central or provincial, attempts to distort” because these would be conceding that China has been distorting and misrepresenting the history of Goguryeo, and I can’t imagine that they would make this concession.
Let’s wait and see China’s next move on this issue.
Jeffery Hodges
10 years ago even China admitted Koguryo was part of Korean history. Textbooks, official government agencies, and scholars all readily admitted this. China has now succeeded in wiping out Korea’s claim that stood strong just 10 years ago. Now China has “compromised”. China won’t say Koguryo is China’s but it sure did wip out Korea’s claim.
Other countries have wiped out Korea’s claim to please China. In the future China will put pressure on more countries to forget Korea’s claim on Koguryo. Korea needs to work hard to make sure nations will acknowledge Korea’s claim. Once Korea’s claim is forgotten by other countries it will be easy for China to step in with its own claim to Koguryo. China might win the war without firing a shot. Sun Tzu would be proud.
For now Koreans seem satisfied with the compromise. They sure told China- no cow towing to China. Most have little idea that China has almost already won. China succeeded in wiping out Korea’s claim to Koguryo and Korea is basically happy and believes this issue is over- how does China do it?
Alien technology… its all in the alien technology.
Such pitiful whinging from the would be Coreans. All I have to say is, “pwn3d”.
This is all smoke and mirrors.
The Korean media get a big story, the politcos look sharp and snappy, tell the world they stuck Uncle Mao in the eye and lived to tell about it, and tomorrow morning nothing is any different. China will still do what it wants in East Asia, and if that includes calling Koguryo an integral part of Chinese history, there’s not a damned thing the Koreans can do about it.
What’re they gonna do? Pull out all their foreign investment in chinese factories in protest? Hyundai will suffer.
Sever diplomatic ties? Not smart.
Whine to the world like they do about every other perceived slight they suffer at foreigner’s hands? It won’t work. No one else really cares.
There is an 800 pound gorilla tyring to get off the East Asian Subway and l’il old Korea is standing in the way.
the nyt has a piece on this if anyone is interested.
and yes, korea can do something about it as is already obvious.
what’s also obvious is poster ‘qwerty27′ is yet another of those weaklings chewed up and spit out by the good people of new koguryo.
Alien technology… its all in the alien technology.
Don’t tell me you guys have been spying at Area 51, too?
That’s the best you can do, shin? Way to go. You are still the poster boy for the whiney-ass Korean stereotype. Winner, and still champion….
The only thing “obvious” here is that you are as clueless as the Roh administration about how to deal with China.
Pigs have flown.
China admits that its internal affairs affects its foreign affairs! OMG. Via the Marmot, a “verbal understanding” has been reached on the long-standing issue of Koguryo, whether or not it belongs in the category of “Ancient Korean History.” China a…
I was taught that Koreans were a proud mix of bear and tiger, due to some strange coupling.
But they woke up to the fact - probably after Olympics 88 - that lineage does not sit well with their claim to `developed nation’ status. That sort of thing really sd happen only on pay-to-view Net sites.
That’s probably when all the fuss about Koguryo triggered off.
But really, if gooks start doing an Imelda Marcos (`that’s mine, and that’s mine), everyone can do it,too.
Tunisians will claim they are Carthaginians, Lebanese will say they are Phoenicians, Greeks will demand part of Turkey part,because they say they are descended from Trojans, Italians will claim England because the Romans had it under their heel, too.
It won’t end.
why not tell us how the koreans should deal with the chinese, shinsatitagain? otherwise, you’ll be committing a classical mistake in the way of debate. we call it argumento-no-havo. just ask mizary5 if you have any questions, ok? i’m sure he’ll tell you all about the golden rule of attacko-no-humo-adhomo.
man, both of you are jokes. lol.
10 years ago even China admitted Koguryo was part of Korean history. Textbooks, official government agencies, and scholars all readily admitted this.
I don’t know where you get this, but I grew up in China and the traditional Chinese sources that I read treat Koguryo just as a historical kingdom that once existed and whose territory included parts of NE China and northern Korea without explicitly saying which present-day country has ownership over Koguryo’s history. Indeed, it would be silly for people to argue about the ownership of the history of a kingdom that ceased to exist over 1300 years ago. I can’t imagine European nations arguing over who owns the history of the Huns and Goths.
This whole thing only became an issue in China after South Korea and China normalized relations in the 1990’s and large numbers of South Koreans started visiting China and proclaiming to what seemed like everyone they see that NE China belongs to Korea and should be taken back by the Koreans because they are the rightful owners of Koguryo’s history and heritage. These claims and demands annoyed a lot of people in China and it is unfortunate that some Chinese have degenerated to the level of these Korean nationalists in arguing about the ownership of the history of the Koguryo kingdom, but from my Chinese point of view, I see this as merely a stupid hotheaded response to the even more ridiculous Korean claims.
BTW, as an interesting side note, after Koguryo’s destruction by the forces of Tang and Silla, many of Koguryo’s people that came under Tang rule took the Chinese character Gao as surname (after Koguryo’s name in Chinese Gao-Ju-Li). Gao is a very common surname in China today, though I’m not sure if there are any other sources for this surname. It is known that Gao Xianzhi, a famous Chinese general during the Tang dynasty, was descended from Koguryo’s people. Gao Xianzhi is known in the West as the Chinese commander at the battle of Talas River near modern day Tashkent, Uzbekistan in 751 AD. Gao’s defeat at Talas River at the hands of the Arabs is historically significant for the propagation of paper making to the Middle East (and subsequently Europe) by Chinese POWs.
why not tell us how the koreans should deal with the chinese, shinsatitagain?
Ok, I’ll tell you.
Buy a tube of lip gloss, brush your teeth, comb your hair way back, get down on your knees, and kiss China’s ass just like you’ve been doing for the past 2,500 years. The Chinese will be happy, Korea will get to remain Korean, and you can go back to the business of trying to become the world’s richest country while the Yanks continue to stand guard on your borders so you don’t have to use your tax money to do it yourself.
Who knows, if you make a real peace with China, maybe you can burn other nations’ flags together in preparation for the Beijing Games in 2008. Hey, maybe you can even propose flag burning as a new Olympic event. I know many of your countrymen discussed this possiblity as far back as ‘88 and have been leading the world in practicing the sport since then, possibly in hopes that it would become a legitimate sport by ‘08. Now’s your chance. Don’t let this opportunity pass you by. Go for the gold.
If flag burning isn’t accepted by the IOC, you still have the other traditional Korean sports of “wife-beating” and “bitching about evil foreigners” to fall back on.
O’, Pilsung Corea!
It doesn’t end with simple land-grab-itis or culture-grab-itosis in Korea though.
They are in the unfortunate position of having outgrown their little peninsula economically, but not militarily or culturally yet.
Koreans are not only descended from a bear woman, they are the direct descendants of god himself through Dangun. That gives some implied legitimacy to their arrogance. After all, being god’s lineal brood they should be able to claim Koguryo, Palhae, or Timbuktu for that matter as their ancestral heritage. They simply do not understand why the rest of the world, especially China, is too ignorant to see things this way, the right way, the Corean way.
Does anyone doubt that if the Koreans thought they could get away with it, they would be massing troops on the border to retake Manchuria today? The fact that China has limited itself in this instance to a war of words and electrons, shows that China has matured greatly since Tibet in 59, while Korea is still in an obsolete mindset.
If China wanted to, they could march to Pyongyang tomorrow and there’s not one country in the world that would come to fat boy’s rescue. Many would welcome the change in regimes. Then what would Seoul do sitting only two hours away from “Lelang” the newly renamed Pyongyang? Things would be back to “normal” the way they have been for about two millenia.
And outside the peninsula, no one would care.
I would, at the very least. It’s hard for me to fathom the glee with which some people imagine this sort of thing. What possible pleasure would there be in compounding the tragedy of modern Korean history? Korean political speech (and activities) can be obnoxious and irritating, sure. How is it that this gets abstracted into contempt for an entire nation?
Not contempt, just apathy. Plain and simple old-fashioned indifference. Very few care.
Koreans have cried wolf for so long and so loud, that when a real crisis comes along, it will be hard for other to believe. Koreans have cried foul for so long and so loud, it will be hard for others to care.
Not many nations will admit to much goodwill towards or fondness for the yanks these days, but even in France they understand the utter stupidity of Koreans constantly barb-throwing at the one country who gave a damn about them enough to protect them for half a century.
Everyone around the world, from Capetown to Vancouver and in between, knows which nation holds the world record for the most US flags burned, shredded, shit on, or otherwise destroyed in a single day. Wanna take a guess where that might be?
Now the Chinese monster looms on the horizon, and who do you think the Koreans will come whimpering to the first moment they feel threatened? Good old Yankee John, the only person on earth kind enough to put up with Dangun’s kids for so long or too dumb to know better.
Korea as a nation should be ashamed of itself.
And not just because of how they treat American GIs.
Last summer, July 27th, 2003 was the fiftieth anniversary of the Armistice that stopped hostilities and saved South Korea from annihilation. It was a time for celebration and gratitude to the 15 nations that bled and died to keep Koreans free enough to bitch about everything.
President Roh, who lives a mere three miles away from the event location–the Army base in Seoul–refused to attend. Here were gathered representatives from every country that fought for HIM, and he didn’t have the gratitude in his heart to say thank you in person. The yanks, and kiwis, and Brits, and Filipinos, and Indians, and the rest celebrated by themselves for the most part. And they shared not only a deep sense of comeradie amongst themselves, but a collective sneer at the country where their dead are still buried on the south bank of the Han River.
The whole thing went out on the news. And I watched it along with millions of others. And I learned what I had long suspected. Koreans are incapable of expressing even the most basic and simple feelings of gratitude, but let just one yank GI get drunk in public, and they’ll come down on you with wrath unparallelled.
So there. Call it contempt, or apathy or whatever. It’s pretty common all over. Last July Korea used up any remaining international respect it might have once had. It hasn’t even tried to gain it back again.
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Yeah, some of that. I did mention that “Korean political speech (and activities) can be obnoxious and irritating.” They’ve certainly been infuriating to me, at times. However, that doesn’t provide a basis for wishing ill on the entire country, or not caring (the apathy you mentioned) if something bad happens to them, particularly given all the bad things that’ve happened to them already. The fact that some South Koreans haven’t done anything besides be annoying (in contrast with bombing a USFK barracks, for example) makes your position seem a bit extreme.
Assuming that most Koreans have similar political views is misguided, I think. President Roh was not elected with a landslide, and can hardly be said to speak for a majority of Koreans, whatever they might believe. Because you don’t hear it, wherever you are, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.
Snubbing the gathered representatives of the 15 nations who saved your ass from utter destruction when you only live ten minutes away is not “irritating”, it’s unforgivable.
This is not a “Korea vs. the US” problem or even a “Korea vs. the Chinese” problem for that matter. My grandfather fought in Korea too.
This is a “Korea-doesn’t-give-a-rat’s-ass-about-anyone-but-themselves” problem.
You’re a little off on your dates turbidmilkshaker, but China didn’t invade Tibet in 1959. The “liberation” of Tibet occured in 1950, 39 years after the last Chinese soldiers left to partake in the first phase of the Chinese civil war. 1959 was the date of the Dalai Lama’s last armed rebellion when he ended up fleeing to Dharamsala.
garymooreblues:
“Snubbing the gathered representatives of the 15 nations who saved your ass from utter destruction when you only live ten minutes away is not ?€œirritating”, it?€™s unforgivable.”
__________________
It may not be possible to forgive President Roh. Be that as it may, taking his actions as reflections of an entire country’s sentiment is, again, misguided. Moreover, there’s a big difference between reasoned criticism of the ROK and wishing for a Chinese invasion of North Korea.
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Recently there has been a little bit of controversy over the ancient kingdom of Koguryo. This controversy has even caused the censorship of the Chinese version of a Korean newspaper in China. The newspaper will get no sympathy from me,
I would think there is good overlapping claims by both China and Korea to the history of Korguryo. I feel it’s is not helpful if one insists it’s the sole owner of Korguryo History. Why don’t both of the affected countries sit together and let the academics on both sides discuss it in a cool headed way. It should not be politicised since it is more an academic issues, and no reason why it can not be settled amicably.
From a concerned outside observer.
Koguryo belongs to Korea. Their capital was located in Pyongyang. Their descendants established post-Koguryo during the last years of the Shinla unified peninsula. Post-Koguryo suceeded in defeating Post-Parhae and Shinla to create the newly unified kingdom of Koryo, which is the abbreviated name for Koguryo, under Wang-Gun. It is from Koryo that westerners refer to “Korea”. Koguryo-Koryo-Korea. It doesnt get any simpler then that. Koguryo is not Chinese because the Chinese civilization developed from the Yellow River. Koguryo was a manchurian state, unfortunately currently occupied by the Han Chinese. Is it safe to say that the Aboriginals of America are Anglo-Americans because they occupy the land? I dont think so. and neither should Koguryo be mis-represented in the same manner.
There was no concept of Korean people, Korean country at the time of Koguryo Kingdom. People of Koguryo Kingdom consisted of different tribes in Manchuria. They spoke the type of language different from the Korean
language of today but more related to Old Japanese. So modern day Koreans only inherit some culture,traditions from Koguryo they also inherit some culture from China too. It is natural to say the present day Dongbeiren can claim they have linkage to
Koguryo, because of the blood and because of the land they resided for thousands of years, e.g. the Manchu people who also regard Baktau Mountain is also their sacred place where their ancesters lived. Buyeo, Koguryo people were only part of the ethnic tribes that reside in Manchuria.
Koreans are only existed when the three countries unified for the firt time in the Korean penisula.
My point of view is Koguryo has historical impacts both to present day China and present day Korea.
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Please define what is Chinese culture and Chinese race before Chinese nationalist argue about Korguyro Kingdoms. Korean History was formed by Ko-Chosun, Korguryo, Shilla, Paekje, Kaya Kingdoms ( Koryo, Chosun, modern day Korea). During three Korean Kingdoms. It was localized civilization that were populated by same group of people ” Puyo” The Puyo tribe orginated in Manchura and Korean Peninsula. Puyo tribe does not relate to Chinese. Chinese itself is mixed race and culture. Manchura and Korean Peninsula historical linkage is much too deep to celebrate itself from Chinese nationalist.