Heck, and the Chinese didn’t stop with Koguryo — they’re pissed off about printing presses and Dano, too!
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Heck, and the Chinese didn’t stop with Koguryo — they’re pissed off about printing presses and Dano, too!
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26 Comments
I think the Chinese invented cutting in line.
Silly Asians! Everyone knows that the printing press is actually a German invention. ^_~
Barbarian, “Silly Asians! Everyone knows that the printing press is actually a German invention.”
Actually, this is true. The Koreans invented the printing press before the Germans.
slim, “I think the Chinese invented cutting in line.”
The Chinese only talk about ancient history when they’re talking about future history. Look at Tibet, Turkestan, and Mongolia. The Middle Kingdom has designs on the northern part of North Korea, after its future collapse. They would love access to the East Sea.
I thought it was insane when most Uri Party members said they favored a shift from an American alliance to a Chinese alliance. America has no interest in taking Korean land, but China does. Amazing.
“I thought it was insane when most Uri Party members said they favored a shift from an American alliance to a Chinese alliance. America has no interest in taking Korean land, but China does. Amazing”
No kidding. I thought the same too.
I agree with everything Paul wrote, especially the part about China’s crazy historical claims. I’m surprised they don’t claim Canal Street in NYC as “ancestral Chinese homelands.” The Chinese do “only talk about ancient history when they?€™re talking about future history” - the fancy term for this tendency is “political archaeology” and Koreans have to realize China wants North Korea.
Chinese views about Koguryo are ominous indeed, but almost child’s play compared to the historical bunkum they propagate about Tibet.
I think it was Professor Hodges who pointed out a while back that most South Korean intellectuals have been trained with a leftist bent that makes them unable to conceive of an (avowedly) communist state like the PRC being imperialistic. In their world, a universe shared by the Uri folks, only the epicentre of capitalism, the USA, can be guilty of imperialism. They cling to this notion at their country’s peril.
TO WIT:
By Xinhua writers Namgyai and Benba Cering
LHASA, July 26 (Xinhua) — Tibet is a tranquil land in nature,
but the holy abode has never been politically left in peace for
over a century because of Western intervention.
Falling prey to coveting Western colonists at the end of the
19th century, the roof of the world, though isolated by its high
altitude and adverse natural environment, could not escape a
barbarous invasion by British troops in 1904.
Scars left by merciless invaders–bullet holes on the doors
and walls of lamaseries and ruins of castles–still remain.
Gone are the days when Tibet would fall victim to Western
bullies with the end of the colonial era, but a century after the
British invasion, the land is still being played as a “card” by
some to serve their own good. The most recent example of the card
game is the United States’ Report on Tibet Negotiations.
As an interference into China’s internal affairs, the report,
though in the disguise of pushing forward negotiations between
the Chinese government and the Dalai Lama, serves only two
purposes: winning popularity and votes for politicians from the
public who are misled on the so-called Tibet issue; and
containing China as part of America’s human rights diplomacy.
What should be made clear is that foreign intervention into
Tibet in history was the very root of the so-called Tibet issue.
According to studies by Tibetan researcher Ngagwang Cering, there
was no such a word as “independence” in Tibetan vocabulary before
the British invasion.
As the Tibetan researcher noted, the concept of “independence
of Tibet” was nothing but a product of British intrigue to
alienate Tibet from China for its own strategic interest in
central Asia in its colonial competition with tsarist Russia.
The current Western intervention, in whatever form it might
take, has complicated the Tibet issue. Though no nation in the
world officially admits the independence of Tibet, the Nobel
Peace Prize, foreign leaders’ meeting and parliament speech
chances given to the Dalai Lama and reports like the recent
American one all might fan the flames of the arrogant dream for
independence of the Dalai Lama and his followers.
Another thing that should never be forgotten is that the US
Central Intelligence Agency helped train a guerrilla force for
Tibetan insurgents first in Taiwan and then in Colorado in late
1950s. Dubbed in modern terminology, the guerrilla force well
deserve the title of terrorists, which at present America hates
most. Fortunately, America stopped the dangerous program in the
1970s or the Tibet issue would become more troublesome today.
The Dalai Lama seemed to have reaped a third party benefit
from foreign intervention into the Tibet issue. The “god king”
known to Westerners, who kept obscure on the world stage in the
early years after he left Tibet, has in recent years gained great
popularity and become an icon in Western countries for his
advocacy of peace and tolerance.
Any other gain for him? As long as the countries still admit
that Tibet is part of China, the Tibet issue will remain a card,
and only a card but nothing else, in the hands of Western
politicians.
However, innocent Tibetan people are hurt and the tranquil
land is remains disturbed by foreign intervention.
Only when one sees himself the arduousness of a Tibetan
traveler who makes his way on rugged roads by foot on a bare
mountain can he realize how important development is for Tibet.
Regrettably, it seems that few development project plans, from
the gigantic Qinghai-Tibet Railway to the renovation of Lhasa’s
old residential area, can escape criticism from the West. These
criticisms are not related to the projects’ own merits or
weaknesses, but on political purpose.
In the words of an American NGO leader Pamela Logan, US policy
on Tibet has been “handicapped” by a voting and vocal public who
have never heard the whole story of Tibet but “have been
conditioned to believe that the Chinese are utterly opposed to
any sort of Tibetan cultural or economic advancement.”
Many Westerners admire the mystery and the tranquillity of
Tibet. But the holy land will not be left in peace as long as the
Tibet issue is kept unsolved and Western countries continue to
intervene into the issue. Western countries should no more play
Tibet as a “card” so as to leave Tibetans alone.
Undoubtedly, the Dalai Lama is a key figure in the Tibet
issue. He chose to leave the country himself over 40 years ago.
Whether and when he can come back depends on his own sincerity.
No foreign report on “Tibet negotiation” can help.
It is strange enough that no one who claims to be concerned
with the rights and interests of Tibetan people has demonstrated
a good memory of the history of the British invasion into Tibet.
Enditem 26/07/2004 15:47 GMT
I’m no diplomat, but would it be so hard to say that Goguryeo is geographically part of Chinese history and culturally/ethnically part of Korean history?
“I?€™m no diplomat, but would it be so hard to say that Goguryeo is geographically part of Chinese history and culturally/ethnically part of Korean history.”
Goguryo is no more part of Korean history than New Orleans is. Just another fanciful legend made up by the Koryo rulers to give foundation and credibility to their claims.
Unfortunately, it has perpetuated and grown in the minds of modern Koreans to the point where we can’t see the truth.
‘where we can’t see the truth.’ kim young sam
yes, could you tell us what the truth is? foreign historians also see koguryo as part of korea’s history, not china’s. that’s the truth, kim young sam. did ya know that? could you see the truth if it stared you in the face?
‘made up… for the foundation of their claims.’ another gem from kim young sam
what did they make up? and could you provide a non chinese source to support your information that ‘they made it up’? and don’t tell me to do a search on google. you’ve obviously read some material on this. let me see your specific sources. bet you don’t have any.
lastly, are you chinese or a member?
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“Kim Young Sam” –
Chinese-American or Westerner with a Chinese spouse?
If you’re Chinese: I know, that many Chinese nationalists view Korea as a traditional bitch of mighty, mighty Chungguo. They cry wolf, that Japanese devils and American imperialists had taken away their Korean toy. Listen, assclown, Korea is nobody’s bitch or toy. The same goes for this lil “Chinese cocktail party discussion” about Koguryo’s history.
Slim wrote:
“I think it was Professor Hodges who pointed out a while back that most South Korean intellectuals have been trained with a leftist bent that makes them unable to conceive of an (avowedly) communist state like the PRC being imperialistic. In their world, a universe shared by the Uri folks, only the epicentre of capitalism, the USA, can be guilty of imperialism. They cling to this notion at their country’s peril.”
Slim, I think that you have said it a whole lot better and more succinctly than I did. However, this Koguryeo issue is going to shake things up because Korean nationalism will trump leftist sentiment in Korea. Leftists might try to argue that China is now a capitalist country and thus imperialistic, but as reality sinks in when Koreans begin to grow concerned that China is using history to stake a claim on North Korea, then relations with America will start looking far more positive, even among the left here in Korea.
We can only hope Mr. Hodges. Sadly this world is welcoming China’s growing influence just to see the USA power dwindle and yet they do not understand the tiger they are allowing into their kitchen…
Heh…to add though you may very well be right Hodges. To have the two Shins go after Kim, Chinese power may very well end up making strange bedfellows between the Korean left and America.
Forgive me Shins if I am mischaracterizing you with others with similiar names who have spoken out against the US and such on this blog.
Dear Sin and Sin,
You were given a lengthy list of reliable sources to read in the previous discussion we had on this topic. Some of those sources were even written by Korean scholars. Not colonial Japanese era scholars, I mean real Korean scholars who are unafraid of looking behind the curtain. If I recall correctly, professor Pae is still at Harvard.
Everyone here can attest to the fact that you have already been given plenty of materials for your reading list. Apparently, you haven’t even tried to read them though. How typical. More interested in screaming with the lights off.
But don’t sit there like a baby and demand that we give you more. You won’t read it anyway.
Read the evidence. Kwang-gae-to Wang was no more “Korean” than Charlemagne was.
And until you understand where China is coming from in this conflict, you will never be a good defender of your own tradition.
Just read the damn books and stop parroting your third grade civics lessons. Get your heads out of the sand.
This is a real debate, amongst real adults in the real world. And whether or not you agree with China’s propositions and actions, you have to understand why they think it is legitimate.
What your mommoy told you when you were five is of no importance outside your own bedroom.
Only the evidence matters now, not your cultural myths.
Evidence? Truth?
You mean Prof. “Hyung-Il Pai”, a associate professor of the UCSB. She got her Ph.D. from Harvard, but afaik never had a professorship there. And her book Constructing ?€œKorean?€? Origins, A Critical Review of Archaeology, Historiography, and Racial Myth in Korean State-Formation Theories published at Harvard Press is based on her Ph.D. dissertation work (this is what I’ve heard), which was advised by a scholar specialized in ancient Chinese history. She is obsessed or fascinated about her main thesis, that “nationalism” and a “political development agenda” formed the entire modern historiography in East Asian countries (esp. in Japan and Korea). Overlooking the “archaeology” and historiography of pre-modern scholars and their co-influence even in modern history science of today, besides the “nationalism” issue. She’s getting after Park Chung-Hee’s “development drive” fuelled by nationalistic historians to lift up self-esteem among demoralized South Koreans - but Koguryo is a pan-Korean obsession, vibrant within North Korea’s society as well.
Btw, “Kim Young Sam”, I never asked you to name me sources or links for your claims, which I found unconvincing. And you don’t know the age-old, time-honored playground rule that every boy should spiritualize: “Never talk dirty about other guys’ mommies!”. If we both would be five year old boys again - dude, you would have kissed my toes with your bleeding teethless mouth. Sangnom.
Ooooh, I’m shaking in my boots now. You sure talk big for a guy named “Sugar”. Trying to compensate for something?
You know the meaning of the Chinese ideogram for “Shin”? Btw, I constantly use only one pen name, how about you, Schmock…
In using only one pen name, I give the other readers a opportunity (if they wanto to read my pretentious writings) to follow (agree or disagree with) my lines of argumentation. Hey, it takes only a few minutes to type my posts. Some are quality posts and others are simple swearing routines at shouting matches. Fruthermore, I like to swear and never pretended to be a gentleman.
Anyway, your Martha Stewart-piece ain’t funny. I’ll inform the American Housewifes Association about your blasphemy and they’ll take obver the job to beat the living shit out of you. Watch your weight back, Slim Shady!
No, buddy, the HOUSEWIFES… they are much meaner than me lil’ brainwashed Korean could ever be. They have dangerous weapons in their arsenal of domiciliary terror: forks, knifes and butt-kicking vacuum cleaners.
Oh crap, not the vacuum cleaners!!! They’ll hoover me to death fer sure.
See ya later. I think we’ve dragged out this thread long enough, don’t you? Meet you down the road.
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Whats wrong with the Chinese? After stealing some of Korean’s history, they will start stealing the White House from DC. They are so wicked, mean and greedy.
I just want to say this. This argument is most stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. If the rituals of GoKuryo is part of China, then I must be fucking Lindsay Lohan every day and night.
I hope the Koreans could understand this; the Korea is not like Taiwan or any other asian countries that have been taken advantage of. You, the Koreans, can hold your own destiny as well as your future. Don’t rely on Chinese market now that it’s getting bigger. Like every country, China will fall at least one or two times. Every time they fall, Koreans will be falling as well. So rely on the Korean market instead of the Chinese.