OK, maybe not me personally, but my employer. I know because dissident Korean-German philosopher Song Du-yul said so. Fresh out of prison, Song decided to yap it up with OhMyNews, slamming the Monopolistic Media ™ and the Korean legal system. Sad thing is, of course, Song has points to make — a democracy like the Republic of Korea probably shouldn’t be putting people on trial for ideological reasons, and there are things in the media that need to change. But for Christ’s sake, I don’t want to hear it from a former member (by choice) of the [North] Korean Workers Party and Kim Il-sung toady. Anyway, here’s what Song had to say:
Song stressed the need for media reform, saying, “Korean society’s most urgent and necessary targets of reform are the media and justice system???? In Germany, we often use the term, ‘a rotten-smelling newspaper,’ and as I read the Chosun, Joongang and Dong-A Ilbos in my nine months in prison, it seemed like they were such newspapers.” He claimed, “As I read the Chosun, Joongang and Dong-A Ilbos everyday, I though Korean society could have no hope in those papers… As long as the old way of thinking of the conservative forces is not broken, tensions within South Korea cannot help but continue.”
Song stressed, “The very things blocking the path to intra-racial reconciliation and peace are the Chosun, Joongang and Dong-A Ilbos… The Chosun, Joongang and Dong-A Ilbos, which serve as Korea’s representative media, are really at a miserable level, and these papers would not be able to fundamentally solve Korea’s social problems.”
Look, I’m well aware that the Chosun, Joongang and Dong-A pull some nasty crap from time to time, but I don’t want to hear about “press reform” from an unrepentant former member of the KWP. It’s kinda like the abolition of the National Security Law — yes, I think it should be seriously revised, if not outright abolished, but I don’t need to read about it in the KCNA. I mean, what would Song prefer, the journalistic standards of the Rodong Sinmun?
Moreover, to suggest that it’s the Chosun Ilbo that’s blocking the path to peace and reconciliation is simply ludicrous — I go to work at the Chosun six out of seven days of the week. Not once have I seen a clandestine nuclear program anywhere in the building, unless those sneaky editors are hiding a uranium enrichment facility down with the printing presses in the basement. Nor does the Chosun — or the Joongang or Dong-A, as far as I know — run their own gulags or starve their journalists.
And just for Song’s information, in pluralistic democracies, we take social tensions for granted. I mean, I’m sure it would be nice for a guy like Song if conservatives (and their press) were “broken” so society could walk down the path to peace and progress as one big happy family like our neighbors to the North. Alas, in democracies, such is not the case.
About the legal system, Song was equally bewildering:
Song spoke frankly about the need for media reform for a while, and then stressed the need for judicial reform. He lamented, “It seems there are some structural problems with the legal system and problems of quality about the judges???? How could a young judge who took the judicial examination judge about complex society and human beings?”
Song said, “Frankly, the depth of understanding of a judge in his 20s is so questionable that you’d wonder whether he could read one piece of literature properly???? I think the current discussion on the law school issue is just a formality.” He said, “I was very surprised that the Korean legal system lacks self-reflection, which is fundamental when one human judges another???? Law must always be open to reality, be I got the feeling that [Korean law] was very closed.”
Firstly, this is just arrogant as hell — judges obviously lack the intellectual capacities of the dear professor here, and hence are simply incapable of understanding the higher truths that Song clearly has grasped. Luckily, North Korea lacks this problem, as judges are blessed with infinitely wise guidance from the party leadership and philosopher-chairman Comrade Kim Jong-il. And Song’s right when he says that the law needs to be open to “reality,” but who the fuck is he to lecture people about “reality?” The guy has been to North Korea god knows how many times and still can’t find a bad thing to say about it. I mean, this is a man who would wither up and die if he was forced to live life off a university campus — he wouldn’t know reality if it came up and bit him on his ass.
And Song, seriously, if you think the courts need “self-reflection,” what do you think you need? Has the professor ever apologized for joining the Korean Workers Party? Has he ever apologized for hobnobbing with Kim Il-sung, who killed far more Koreans than Park or Chun ever did? Has he ever apologized for taking the North’s money? Has he ever apologized for philosophically justifying North Korean totalitarianism? To my knowledge, he hasn’t. Looks like reflection time to me.
29 Comments
Mr. Carr is correct, and much as I hate to agree with anything Mr. Song says, in this case I have to.
Having participated first hand in more than 600 Korean court cases, I can say with a straight face that the Korean legal system is a farce.
Korean judges literally go from street demonstrations to the bench in one quick step with almost no time to practice law and learn about the art of advocacy.
It’s not so much the legal system as it is a good system of legal education that is lacking here. There is no emphasis on analytical thought skills in the Korean law curriculum or the post graduate training. It’s all memorization, perhaps sometimes useful in a civil code country, but in Korea’s case, justice suffers badly.
Also, nearly one hundred percent of junior level government attorneys are serving in that capacity instead of serving in the military. They have no more training or experience doing their job than a fresh recruit out of boot camp.
Well, why don’t start with the self-reflection by yourself first? Criticing someone for not critizing something is a valuable part of any discussion in a democratic society. You are working for the Chosun Ilbo to gain your money to live. That’s alright with me. But sincerely, you sound like really pissed off by the fact that Professor dared to call your newspaper “a rotten newspaper”. You never criticed Chosun Ilbo in your blog. Everyone following politics and media in South Corea is aware of the fact that Chosun is a piece of shit. And all these people are not necessarily having an subscription of Hankyoreh either (I don’t, btw.). Bringing the argument that the staff at Chosun Ilbo is not starving to death - to get somehow a link to North Corea - is just completely ridiculous. Chosun Ilbo has a huge impact at some parts of the Korean society and I think that Professor Song is right when he states that. I guess that you are sort of proud of working for such an astonishing intellectual elite of journalism… But start critizing Chosun Ilbo first before hitting on Professor Song and his “missing” criticism of North Korea because you think that he is “probably too close to his subject to critize it”. So what about you? You expect from someone a reasoning that you are familiar with. But one can expect the same from you from the other side of the medal. You never gave that reasoning in your blog and reading this shit is quite embarrasing for your so-called self-reflection.
WTF? Ok, Eun-Hy, why don’t you criticize yourself for criticizing Marmot for not criticizing himself and for criticizing Prof Song who criticized Marmot’s employer who apparently hasn’t criticized itself enough recently to stay off your shitlist of criticism. Did you get all that?
Honestly, anytime a Korean tells someone to criticize themselves I have to laugh my ass off [whoops where's my ass?] Koreans are so utterly incapable of self-criticism it’s a national joke, but they are quick to point out other’s faults.
Get over it. It’s just a bit of criticism.
I can’t comment on the quality of the Korean legal system. I do wonder, however, how the ability to “read one piece of literature properly” is at all relevant to the application of the law.
Song is an asshole, but about the judges, he is correct. The Korean system basically makes “judge” the first job any judge ever holds — the average age of entry is 28 or so, right after passing the lawyers’ examination. It produces a very compliant judiciary for the state, which is why the Nazis loved this system (Korea’s judicial system is modelled on the German system from the 1930s).
I never understood why they simply didn’t deport Song, who was no longer an R.O.K. citizen. Although his life’s work merely makes him the Korean peninsula equivalent of a Holocaust Denier, stupidity is not a crime.
He sounded like Roh talking about the media the way he did. Those two are on the same page- scary that the leader of SK and this guy think the same way. Yes some improvements needs to be made especially with judges but as you pointed out- It is a hell of a lot better than the North.
That was quite funny.
Honestly, anytime an American tells someone to criticize themselves I have to laugh my ass off [whoops where?€™s my ass?] Americans are so utterly incapable of self-criticism it?€™s a national joke, but they are quick to point out other?€™s faults.
Get over it. It?€™s just a bit of criticism.
Bwuhahaha. Eun-Hy, you’ve found the one thing that Koreans are really good at: copying other’s original ideas. You’ll make the fatherland proud yet.
Yeah, and take a look at the way Eun-Hy automatically assumes that anyone who writes English or criticizes Korea is an American. Is that telling or what?
Eun-hy, with all due respect, you should have graduated from the “I’m rubber, you’re glue” school of discourse in about 4th grade, WHEREVER you went to school. Not even our benighted buddy Shin Jong-il does that — too much — anymore.
More seriously, you dumped on the Marmot without reading him carefully:
“Sad thing is, of course, Song has points to make ? a democracy like the Republic of Korea probably shouldn?€™t be putting people on trial for ideological reasons, and there are things in the media that need to change.”
“Look, I?€™m well aware that the Chosun, Joongang and Dong-A pull some nasty crap from time to time, but I don?€™t want to hear about ?€œpress reform?€? from an unrepentant former member of the KWP”.
Marmot merely questioned Song’s qualifications — legitimately, I’d say. And God help you and your family if you see even the remotest moral equivalence between the Chosun Ilbo and the North Korea regime Song dances for.
Damn, Eun-Hy, are you actually trying to prove all the stereotypes true? What an idiot. So typically Korean.
Someone says something that upsets you, or irks you, and you automatically start blaming America.
What is it with Koreans and this assumption that all the world’s evils are the fault of the yanks?
How completely stupid does a person have to be not to understand that all english speakers, and all Korea commantators/criticizers are not american?
Back to the streets with you, Eun-Hy. Grab a flag and a lighter and get back to your regularly scheduled protests in front of the US embassy.
How do you yanks put up with such twaddle from your supposed allies?
OK, I think it’s inappropriate to insult Eun-hy or to say that her comments are “so typically [K]orean,” even if she herself doesn’t help matters by saying something as broad (and mistaken) as “Everyone following politics and media in South [K]orea is aware of the fact that Chosun is a piece of shit.” I think what she really means to say is, “My ideological ilk think the Chosun is a piece of shit, and those who disagree with me obviously don’t know South [K]orean politics or the media.” Hey, that’s fine — I guess I could say, with equal validity (none), that “everyone following South [K]orean politics and media knows OhMyNews is a piece of shit.” But that’s rather pointless, wouldn’t you think?
Now, am I proud of working for the Chosun Ilbo? I guess I am. Or at least I’m prouder to be a pissant translator for the Chosun than I would be for spending the last 39 years of my life working for the North [K]oreans. But I digress…
I’m not upset that Song attacked the Chosun. Lots of people attack the Chosun, and for good reason. OhMyNews actually has a dedicated Chosun fisker — Shin Mi-hee. I’ve never written on this blog that Shin shouldn’t criticize the Chosun because I happened to think half the stuff her employer prints is bullshit, nor have I ever left a comment under one of her columns saying that reading her “shit” was “embarrassing” because she spends so much of her creative energy on criticizing the Chosun Ilbo (and, in fact, I’d be curious whether you have). My issue is not with attacks on the Chosun, but with Song launching attacks on the Chosun, particularly in the manner that he did. Shin is, according to at least one blogger, a very nice lady who never worked for North [K]orea. President Roh can talk about media reform, and while I might have concerns, I wouldn’t attack him in the way I have Song, because, again, Roh never worked for North Korea. Song might also be a nice guy, but he also worked for North [K]orea. And as slim pointed out, you’d need help if you think its appropriate to draw moral equivilancy between being a hack translator for the Chosun and, to use slim’s term, to dance for the people Song has unapologetically danced for.
wow, forumosa flashback. Angry expatriate foreigners denouncing the locals.
Beating up on Marmot for the hypocrisy of working for the Chosun while defending it while he works there………while you defend a man like Mr. Song……………….perfect…….
Too bad C
Expats “bashing” the locals is a funny phenomenon.
I went to an American university where every single foreigner I ever met (except myself) detested the US and the school was 25% foreign.
It produces a very compliant judiciary for the state, which is why the Nazis loved this system (Korea?€™s judicial system is modelled on the German system from the 1930s). - Brendon Carr
The judicial system of Korea modelled on the one of Nazi Germany from the 1930s? Never heard about that, Brendon. The Koreans have adopted parts of Germany’s civil law book (”B?¼rgerliches Gesetzbuch”/ BGB codified in 1896) and criminal law book (”Strafgesetzbuch”/ StGB codified in 1871 and heavily re-written by the Nazis in the 1930s).I would say, that Korean laws and the judicial system are a mixture of traditional Chinese law principles, the Japanese legal legacy from the colonial time and Anglo-Saxon legal influence.
And to give the readers an impression of the German judicial education: German law is in contrast to the Anglo-Saxon tradition not a case-law-driven system. It’s based on the continental European law tradition(from antique post-Roman German law and traditional law from the Middle Ages to the influence of the Napoleonic “Code Civil” etc.). Only attendants of a state university can study law. The first state exam is a hellish procedure in a country, that is known to be a “codified” society obsessed with bureaucratic and legal regulation of anything (un)imgaginable. After the first exam the graduates are obliged to work and train for two years at courts and with the prosecution office as so-called “Rechtsreferendare” and “Gerichtsassessoren” to get the qualification for passing the second state exam. The whole German judicial education is heavily orientated to train the students to get the abilities of a judge or prosecutor (”Volljurist”, “Richteramtsbef?¤higung”). With the passed first state exam you can’t even get a license as a lawyer or legal advisor. Judges and prosecutors as life-long state servants are handpicked from a pool of the best graduates of the second state exam.
Also during the times of Nazi rule in Germany the Nazis kept heir hands off from this in-depth law education. The sad result was, that the Nazis could recruit exceptionally brilliant judicial technocrats as tools for their crimes. The law students then were taught about analytic thinking and diverse legal theories, but morality and ethics was not on the main schedule. That changed after Germany had become a liberal democracy again after 1945.
The Korean education of law students lacks in many fields - too much uncritical memorization and the political meddling of the state during judicial procedures is an obstacle for a self-confident and independent justice in Korea. But to compare the judicial system with the like of the Nazis is IMHO an overstretch and unfitting exaggeration.
And the case of Prof. Song: c’mon guys, every fair-minded bloke could see the politically driven agenda and campaign of this case. The NIS, prosecution office and the arch-conservative press with the GNP folks had been on a war path against President Roh at that time and used Mr. Song’s pink-painted political flirt with the DPRK as a sledge-hammer to hit Roh at his forehead. Even a psychopathic mass-murderer like Jeffry Dahmer received a fairer, civil-liberties respecting treatment by the justice in the US than Mr. Song here in Korea. I’m not judging about his questionable and twisted pro-North Korean political and sociological activities, but I object to the organized, agitated witch-hunt against him. How can he be judged or convicted fairly for what he did in such a tense atmosphere of a staged public media-outrage, spreaded rumors and the leaking of unconfirmed intelligence dossiers by the prosecution office based on sole, one-sided informations of the NIS aka KCIA to the media outlets? Song left the ROK in the 1960s during Park’s iron-fisted reign. He has lost his sense of proportion and reality, while being royally stroked by Kim Il-Sung at his workers’ paradise court of illusions and hallucinations in Pyongyang. Song’s longing for his home country in German exile had made a drug junkie on turkey out of him, always looking for the next shot of “Korea” and the dealers in Pyongyang had the finest stuff for people like him. Seoul offered him only torture and the boot camp during the decades of military dictatorships. Song blindfolded his left eye and chose the easy way. Just like many of the conservative commentators here are blindfolded on their right eyes. Cyclops, unite and fight!
Sugar Shin, I don’t argue with your take on the Song trial — this is a case that should never have been brought to trial. I will say this, however — a lot of people suffered under the Park regime, but very few of them collaborated with Pyongyang. Keep in mind, this is a man who called for economic sanctions to be put on Seoul while at the same time taking Pyongyang’s money. And granted, perhaps joining the KWP was a “mere formality” to visit North Korea, but you could rest assured that Song would have condemned those going to visit South Korea if it meant joining the Democratic Republic Party. And what I don’t understand is how a man who defends North Korea could all of a sudden find press and legal reform such a pressing matter. Like I said, what Song said has some validity — there are things that need to be changed. But if the guy apparently has no problem with the KCNA and Rodong Sinmun, why should he be concerned about the ?¡°?¤‘??™?
Methinks Sugar Shin went to the law college himself. I’m not saying that the Korean legal education and judicial systems are “Nazi” — I’m saying that when they were installed by the Japanese colonial regime (itself rather fascist in demeanor), the Nazis were ascendant in Germany. Sugar Shin, I know that the German “legal science” movement got its start in the 1870s, but golly gee — it seems disingenuous of you to overlook the fascist inspiration of the Japanese judicial apparatus. Is not the current Korean legal system a direct inheritor of the colonial scheme? Are not the youthful, career-oriented 30 year-old judges exceptionally pliant for the State?
Sugar Shin, thanks for an extraordinarily informative and insightful explanation of the Korean legal system and its relation to the German one (plus a lot of other things). In my lectures last semester on Western Civilization, I told my freshmen students that the Korean legal system is based on the German one, which I mentioned as an example of the far-reaching influence of the Roman Empire since the German legal system is grounded in that one. I only happened to know about the connection between Korean and German law because when I lived in Germany, one of my Korean friends was studying German law and told me why.
My students at Korea University probably thought that I was some sort of expert, but actually, I knew very little. I probably now know about 500 percent more.
Brendon, I’ll bet that Sugar is a historian rather than a legal scholar because he also knows a lot about the Islamic tradition. (Or is he an expert in Islamic law? Sugar — are you?)
Anyway, we have several experts here on Korea and the legal system, so let me pose a question. I read in a post somewhere on one of these blogs (not the Marmot’s) that in the Korean legal system, no one is ever completely innocent. Now, I realize that this is an exaggeration, but there seems to me to be some element of truth in it. In traffic accidents, for example, people are often judged partially responsible even when (from my perspective) they were completely innocent. For this reason, I refuse to drive in Korea despite my wife’s urging.
Anyway, I wonder if this tendency has some connection to the difference between a guilt and a shame culture. People arrested in Korea hide their faces. Now, this must be due to shame because in a guilt culture, hiding one’s face would be interpreted as a sign of guilt. But in Korea, if a Westerner is arrested and acts like a typical Westerner in loudly maintaining innocence, then Koreans seem to have the impression that the person is ‘guilty.’ But I don’t think they are using the category of guilt; I think they’re concluding that the person is shameless and therefore a bad person.
So, the Korean legal system may be based (partly) on the German one, but the cultural assumptions are totally different. Legal systems everywhere are used for social control, but those developed in the West are grounded in assumptions (probably theological ones, ultimately) about guilt that are not shared by Koreans. Traditionally, shame has been used in Korean (and Japanese and Chinese) culture for social control, and the legal system had perhaps traditionally reflected this.
The increasing role of Christianity in Korean society might be transforming the culture from a shame one to a guilt one, but I see this as happening only gradually. Most Korean Christians seem to me to be susceptible more to shaming than to guilt tripping.
I realize that I’m making a lot of generalizations here, but don’t focus too much on the specifics. What I’m wondering is if I’m generally correct. Do notions of shame pervade the Korean legal system, and if so, does this account for the way that the system is used in Korea?
Any comments?
Jeffery Hodges
Interesting comment Prof Hodges.
I can add only a little more. In Japan, the conviction rate for people who are arrested and brought to court is something in the neighborhood of 97%. This is just about the same in Korea. In Confucian culture, being brought to court IN ITSELF proves youre already guilty. In this tradition, courts are thought of as places for punishing the guilty rather than hashing out facts to see how justice would best be served. In fact, the Korean word for law, pup/peop, comes from a classical chinese character that is translated as something like “horrible tortures,” so that might help give you an idea of where Confucian cultures come from in their jurisprudence.
Note: The above tidbit on Prof Hodges comment came to me by way of a conversation with Prof Gari Ledyard last year, noted Korean Studies historian, and it is not the mere invention of an amateur internet historian (like myself).
Holy Crap? There’s a name I haven’t heard in a while! Is Gari Ledyard still alive? What is he doing these days? Still at Columbia?
It’s not that accurate to say the Korean and Japanese legal systems have high conviction rates, and are therefore “unfair” as compared to enlightened systems such as the Anglo-American common-law system. American conviction rates are really high, too — take a look at San Diego’s 91% conviction rate, and especially note that acquittals are outnumbered by convictions 303 to 1. Russian roulette has a better chance than that. Being brought to court in sunny San Diego is not the day at the beach Fabius beleives.
Now, it goes without saying that prosecutors generally tend to indict only those people whom the prosecutors believe (i) have committed the crime and (ii) can be convicted. So conviction rates are high regardless.
Yeah Prof Ledyard is alive and well. He just retired from Columbia, but he still writes articles. Great guy, though a bit quirky.
PS - Mr. Carr, New york City has a 58.7% conviction rate for felonies.(http://criminaljustice.state.n.....os/nyc.htm)
I’m not an expert on this subject so all I will say is that if I were innocent of a crime and had to go to court to prove it, I would rather be in NYC than Seoul.
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