you’ve mistaken me with Mr. Shin Jong-Il, he didn’t post about France and the Maginot line.

And Mumbles, it’s “Marmot” and not “Marmont”.

To all interested minds, the outcome of the match yesterday was 2 : 2. Football indeed rules the world, taking the soccer enthusiasts on all five continents into account!

I made my possibly-too-elaborate post for the benefit of others here who might have been interested — and got some good mil history responses to include your own. Also to point out that good defensive fortifications and obstacles have their place in the scheme of things.

I’ve never been to Korea but I understand the whole of the peninsula south of the DMZ has elaborate forward defensive positions; also barriers, ready for immediate implementation in the event of war (such as large concrete structures that can be blown down by demolitions to block a road). And the hilly terrain of most of the peninsula favors the defense.

BTW, those of you who have never been to Europe might never have realized that during the entirety of the Cold War, not one meter of West Germany bordering against the Warsaw Pact was ever fortified with barriers, or even had any defensive postions pre-prepared (too much of an imposition on valuable farm and forest land, I suppose).

Not even one foxhole — anywhere. The only thing the government of the FRG would permit was the “pre-chambering” of major autobahn bridges (manholes with covers for the wartime insertion of cratering charges).

The normal way to bypass a complete linear defense, such as the one on the Korean peninsula, is to go around by sea and make amphibious landings, but that option has been forever denied to the North by US/ROK naval and air superiority.

But with 50 years of time to prepare by a Leninist/Stalinist “war communist” state, ways to get around such a defense can be found with enough energetic dedication; thus the famous tunnels.

(First one found 1979 or 80? Total of 3 found so far? But there may be as many as 17 more yet undiscovered I gather, some of which may be big enough to transit vehicles).

A lesson for the ROK, a la “Maginot Line”? Perhaps. But as you imply, I’m far away and just speculating as a “war collegian”.

remember the german invasion was helped along by a generation which believed that beefing up the military with more tanks/planes would by itself cause agression. that was the leading theory of why ww1 happened at that time. also daladier said upon returning home from the imfamous munich conference something along the lines of “i would have been more willing to stand up to germany if we had the same numbers of planes and tanks.”

You’re point about the South having WMD and the capability to use them in kind in reponse to a North Korean attack is a good one. I think the South Korean military would pull that trigger — much faster than the US could by far — and that would effect the ability of the North to win quickly, and quickly is the only way I can see them winning.

But, these are things to think about.

The problem I found with South Korean society even back in the mid-1990s was that even people in their early 40s had not considered the potential of war much at all. It was a night and day difference between the US-USSR cold war and the one with NK-SK.

It makes no sense, because even now that SK loves to pretend it doesn’t face a cold war enemy, if you scratch pass the surface just a little, you find most Korean adults will admit the North scares them.

The only reason I found SK adults didn’t bother to think about war was this — “Oh. Kim Jong Il knows the US will defeat NK completely, so there won’t be a war.”

Besides forgetting all the collasal mistakes in judgement in history…..

…SK should see the huge warning signs that the US stands a good chance of pulling out of SK in the near future……

I am not some Fracophobe redneck, I have once read Jean F. Revel’s insight into how those that declared “Better Hitler than Blum” were a vast array of left and right-wing malcontents. Remember Stalin was on Berlin’s side at the time. Seoul does not have to be full of Juche freaks to hinder U.S support. Utopian pacifism and rabid nationalism would do just fine.

For your info the “inferior” French Char B almost fried Rommel’s ass in France ( a shell went straight through his small tank) , and the Germans only made big PZ IVs after they encountered the superior French tanks…but this is nerdy wargamer stuff.

I respect your opinions Ari but….

” Koreans are full of bluster and will spout emotional nonsense like “hanminjok” and “Fuckin U.S.A.” but when push comes to shove they’ll do an about face and pick self preservation/economic self interest almost every time..”

I know tons of Koreans/K-ams in school, and many of them do blame the US for what is happening. I am not trying to stereotype complex Korean culture.

While I may think Shin Jong il’s criticisms polemic, it must be admitted that our forces are fairly thinly extended. It may be Ok to have our forces strecthed out from Manila to Casablanca now. But if real war breaks out Washington will probably choose oil over Samsung Phones.

This is not a slam to the Korean people, just economic realities.

Remember we haven’t found a way to outsource oil yet, but PCs and Cars are made all over Asia.

you mean like george bush did as soon as he got into office? you mean underminig like that? and which policies are you referring to? are you referring to the policies formulated in consultaion with the south korean government, or are you referring to policies that simply dictate to south korea?

perhaps you’re referring to policies where the us thinks it has the right to start a war in korea without ever consulting those who would be most affected by such a war.

you can understand why the koreans have put such policies in the trash bin where they belong.

korea wants an ally, you want a dog.

‘for instance it would be interesting to compare the number of iraqis now being killed with those killed by hussein…’ sundubuman

wow, the united states has come a long way! now, we see guys dressed in overalls comparing the greatest nation on earth to a third world dictator. the neo-cons are doing what they can to tarnish america and i’m not going to allow it to continue! you’re out in novenmber, guys.

‘the us spent countless lives defending your country…’ sundubuman

no, it spent countless of lives defending korea. just like korea spent countless of lives defending us policy in vietnam.

‘you’re either with us or against us.’ herr cheney, totsfuehrer

‘anyone who criticises my policies is helpng the enemy.’ bush, fuehrer, das viertes reich

‘the abba crowd…’ insignificant moron of the neo-con brigade.