How different do the soldiers seem out on the town in these areas than 18 to 23 year olds in college towns in the US (or Canada or the UK or France)? What kind of differences are there?

I saw a good number of fights and arguments in college towns in my time in the US. I saw no fights with the expat teachers I went around with in Korea…

but I saw a good bit of arguing among Korean middle aged drunks when I lived above a bar district.

The red light districts in Korea (like near train stations) was something I hadn’t witnessed before in the US. Nor was I prepared for the sheer number and variety of places for prostition in Korea.

I also remember this last time I was in Korea. I was studying Korean in Seoul and taking the train in leaving at 5:00 in the morning.

Just about every day, when I was catching the taxi to go to the station, the 20 and 30 something Koreans filled the streets heading home after a night out drinking. Almost every night. And I saw a few interesting sitautions — shouting matches. men harassing (mildly) women trying to get taxis home. and such.

My times going out with Korean college kids to Korean hangouts was much like when I went out in the US.

I never went into red light districts with Koreans or expats in Korea (or in the US) so I can’t speak for any differences between how the soldiers, expats, or Koreans act there.

Right now, I don’t have the experience to say the GIs are out of their class in Korea in how they act.

Even consider the current story that started all of this.

We have apparently one Korean deciding to confront the soldiers for whatever reason and the event really beginning there.

This is similar in many cases in this common story in Korea.

It all ends up a big question (?) to me….

One problem is that American soldiers don’t seem to take a lot of their orders very seriously, at least not the orders about where they can go and when. Hongdae and Shinchon at night are off limits and there is a curfew, so any US soldier there in the evening is disobeying orders (and is therefore one of the bad apples, a guess). It would be nice if the off-limits areas rules were better enforced… but having MPs wandering around Hongdae would probably be worse than having soldiers breaking curfew.

Then again, one of my better friends for the past couple of years was an American soldier who was always in off-limits areas and always out after curfew… and he was a hell of a nice guy who fit none of the stereotypes about “low-IQ mouth breathers”.

Anyhow, I do get the feeling that the USFK does a pretty poor job of acclimating soldiers to life in Korea. Maybe they hear whore stories from the 70s, or they think this is some Third World outpost, or perhaps they get posted to one of the more out-of-the-way bases that have little nearby but sleazy bars…

One final (disjointed) thought…. I think the Koreans are also to blame here. Seoul is a city of 11 million (over 20 if you include the suburbs), and Korea a nation of 48 million… but there are precious few cool or “happening” places. Almost no decent live music. A near-dead repertory film scene. How do you have a university district without a decent book store or CD shop? Not much going on outside of Itaewon and Hongdae. A few thousand soldiers should be able to go out and have a few beers, do a little boogeying, without making their presence much felt. But the locals have a rather undeveloped arts and youth scene (unless you think Hyewha and Jongno are fun), so proportionally, soldiers (and foreigners in general) stick out far more than they should.

There is no intrinsic instinct of
“justif[ication] to mishandle…hapless brown people…” in American soldiers. There is the rutting instinct of over-hormoned young males, fueled by alcohol and excited by tales of liberal prostitution. Call it the “traveling salesman syndrome” if you will, but chalk it up to all males everywhere.

Prostitution is evidently still prevalent in Korea (from what I read on this blog and others). Unfortunately it also seems to be on the increase elsewhere in the world, as traditional standards of moral behavior continue to erode under relentless assault.

The solution is to bring the troops home and for Koreans to confront their own dilemma of a divided peninsula. If the South wants to continue with the US alliance, and include a periodic show of strength from US ground forces (though as Marmot says, they’re not needed now), then selected US units can be brought in at intervals for a short joint training deployment (as in the traditional annual exercise ongoing for years now — what’s it’s name?)

The troops come in as a unit and leave as a unit, rather than as individuals. Not a complete panacea for bad behavior but it will help, and that’s how the US Army will be doing business from now on anyway IMO (analogous to what they did during WWII).

Like U.S. bases, in the event of an emergency on the Korean Peninsula, I’d stay well clear of the gates of the U.S. Embassy. In fact, assuming you couldn’t get out of the country, Mungyeong, North Gyeongsang Province might be a good spot to hang. I lived there for my first three years here in Korea — kinda think of it as my ??흹2?쨀???? — and not only is it a really pleasant place, but the nearest priority target is the ROK Air Force base at Yecheon, which is far enough away that even Nodong accuracy issues aren’t much of a concern. Then again, Mungyeong does sit across one of the few passes through the Sobaek Mountains, so perhaps it might not be such a great place to be afterall.

jamie — Feel free to butcher my language. I do a pretty good job of butchering it myself.

“they should know their place?”

you’re the one advocating that military personnel be treated as second class citizens (by maintaining that their movements be restricted in manners not applied to others).

it’s quite humorous - you criticize the opinions of others posters and all is square. others criticize you and it’s triumph of the will. priceless.

pot, meet kettle.

Let us fervently hope once more, as we have in the above posts, that one day war will come and they will be all slaughtered at the gates of the US embassy or wherever for their crime of not being loyal auxiliaries and cheerleaders. Because death is what they deserve. Uppity allies! They should know their place - following behind us!

(I couldn’t resist. Ok, I’m really off this thread now…. )