Comments on: Mongolian what? http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/ Korea... in Blog Format Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:38:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: James Versluys http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3514 James Versluys Fri, 14 May 2004 00:31:54 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3514 Mmmmmm, Andoran clusterfuck. You know, Captain Kirk wouldn't shut up the one time he got some of that Andoran clusterfuck. It's Mongolian because in english, the word sounds funny. Botswanan doesn't roll off the toungue the same way. PING: TITLE: Asia by Blog BLOG NAME: Simon World Time for a tour of what's happening in Asia... May 12th marks an important day in Hong Kong history. Hemlock has announced his intention to run for Chief Executive. This is clearly the best argument yet for full democracy in Hong Kong, now. Chris notes... Mmmmmm, Andoran clusterfuck. You know, Captain Kirk wouldn’t shut up the one time he got some of that Andoran clusterfuck.

It’s Mongolian because in english, the word sounds funny. Botswanan doesn’t roll off the toungue the same way.

PING:
TITLE: Asia by Blog
BLOG NAME: Simon World
Time for a tour of what’s happening in Asia… May 12th marks an important day in Hong Kong history. Hemlock has announced his intention to run for Chief Executive. This is clearly the best argument yet for full democracy in Hong Kong, now. Chris notes…

]]> By: The Marmot http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3513 The Marmot Thu, 13 May 2004 04:34:46 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3513 Wasn't looking for any racial or ethnic connotations in the term -- I was just curious as to its derivation. I mean, why not a "Botswanan Clusterfuck" or "Andoran Clusterfuck"? Wasn’t looking for any racial or ethnic connotations in the term — I was just curious as to its derivation. I mean, why not a “Botswanan Clusterfuck” or “Andoran Clusterfuck”?

]]> By: Roy http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3512 Roy Wed, 12 May 2004 22:52:46 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3512 well there is a particularily appaling mixed drink with this name Mongolian Clusterfuck 0.667 oz. J?짚germeister?짰 0.667 oz. Goldschlager?짰 0.667 oz. Rumplemintz?짰 Shot Glass Personally if I was Mongolian I would be far more offended at this usage... I have actually heard this, in one case from an elderly substitute teacher whose was a former (WWII era) CPO, I think Mongolian is just an intensifier, added because of both it's sound and general outlandishness. Also I think that Mongolian in this context has a reference to barbarism and ruthlessness and the relationship between this and the term "mongoloid" is only incidental. Not trying to excuse my former teacher but he was a big fan of Ghenghis Khan, and since much of his praise was along the lines of the Great Mongol's talents in administratioin and the intelligent application of force. I doubt he was thinking of the word Mongoloid. well there is a particularily appaling mixed drink with this name

Mongolian Clusterfuck

0.667 oz. J?짚germeister?짰
0.667 oz. Goldschlager?짰
0.667 oz. Rumplemintz?짰
Shot Glass

Personally if I was Mongolian I would be far more offended at this usage…

I have actually heard this, in one case from an elderly substitute teacher whose was a former (WWII era) CPO, I think Mongolian is just an intensifier, added because of both it’s sound and general outlandishness. Also I think that Mongolian in this context has a reference to barbarism and ruthlessness and the relationship between this and the term “mongoloid” is only incidental. Not trying to excuse my former teacher but he was a big fan of Ghenghis Khan, and since much of his praise was along the lines of the Great Mongol’s talents in administratioin and the intelligent application of force. I doubt he was thinking of the word Mongoloid.

]]> By: James Versluys http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3511 James Versluys Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:52 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3511 Yeah RWV, you're an old feller, because I hear it a lot as a bit of an aging "youngster". And the Mongolian Mark refers to is a deviation off of Mongloid, which is a rare but still somewhat used epithet. If it once had any negative racial characteristics, they're long gone in the American cultural memory. Plus, and I don't mean to be out of line here, but obsessing about linguistic trivia like this smacks of the ultra-modern disease of looking under every rock to find hidden meaning in words to fit the most recent isms so they can be offended. As social trends go, that is one huge mongolian cluster fuck. JfV [And no, not all Asians are decended from the Mongols. Just a hell of a lot of them. Something like 15% have the direct genetic lineage of Genghis Khan and his dad and son, which made him the fuckingest man in history. The Warren Beatty of his day, so to speak. You kinda gotta be in awe] Yeah RWV, you’re an old feller, because I hear it a lot as a bit of an aging “youngster”.

And the Mongolian Mark refers to is a deviation off of Mongloid, which is a rare but still somewhat used epithet. If it once had any negative racial characteristics, they’re long gone in the American cultural memory.

Plus, and I don’t mean to be out of line here, but obsessing about linguistic trivia like this smacks of the ultra-modern disease of looking under every rock to find hidden meaning in words to fit the most recent isms so they can be offended. As social trends go, that is one huge mongolian cluster fuck.

JfV

[And no, not all Asians are decended from the Mongols. Just a hell of a lot of them. Something like 15% have the direct genetic lineage of Genghis Khan and his dad and son, which made him the fuckingest man in history. The Warren Beatty of his day, so to speak. You kinda gotta be in awe]

]]> By: mark http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3510 mark Wed, 12 May 2004 16:58:20 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3510 Correction to the above: I think the term was "Mongoloid", not "Mongolian". Anyway, it's a linguistic relic of the "White Standard" (racism). Correction to the above: I think the term was “Mongoloid”, not “Mongolian”. Anyway, it’s a linguistic relic of the “White Standard” (racism).

]]> By: mark http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3509 mark Wed, 12 May 2004 16:14:43 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3509 Actually, I believe it DOES have negative connotations. Perhaps, (In my estimation) "Mongolian" as a negative epithet comes from the old psychology/medical term for Mentally Impaired (you know..retarded) persons. They used "Mongolian" because of the fact that people born with Trisomy 23(?), also known as Down's Syndrome, have a fold of skin above their eyes, similar to those of the "Mongolian Race". The term "Mongolian Race" is another old-school term referring to Asians in general, since Anthropologists believe(d) that all Asian are decended from the Mongols (is that right?) Anyway, it was not much of a problem to associate something bad with an entire race (or is it nationality) of people a long time ago, since it was considered that they didn't matter anyway. Actually, I believe it DOES have negative connotations. Perhaps, (In my estimation) “Mongolian” as a negative epithet comes from the old psychology/medical term for Mentally Impaired (you know..retarded) persons. They used “Mongolian” because of the fact that people born with Trisomy 23(?), also known as Down’s Syndrome, have a fold of skin above their eyes, similar to those of the “Mongolian Race”. The term “Mongolian Race” is another old-school term referring to Asians in general, since Anthropologists believe(d) that all Asian are decended from the Mongols (is that right?) Anyway, it was not much of a problem to associate something bad with an entire race (or is it nationality) of people a long time ago, since it was considered that they didn’t matter anyway.

]]> By: CujoQuarrel http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3508 CujoQuarrel Wed, 12 May 2004 13:55:26 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3508 I've heard it for at least 30 years. Didn't know it WASN'T a common expression everywhere. No militiary experience here, this is in civilian usage. I’ve heard it for at least 30 years. Didn’t know it WASN’T a common expression everywhere.

No militiary experience here, this is in civilian usage.

]]> By: Paul H. http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3507 Paul H. Wed, 12 May 2004 13:35:18 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3507 Perhaps we could begin use of the term for multiple mistaken repeat postings in the comments section of a web site? Just kidding. I disagree with James; I never heard it in twenty years in the Army. Of course I'm an "old guy" and out of touch with what the current troop slang is, or for that matter the average US high schooler or college student. But I haven't seen it anywhere else on the internet. In many US Army officer/NCO club system dining rooms years ago, there would be frequent references to "Mongolian barbecue" which would be a stir fry of rice and vegetables, heavy on the beef. Had no negative connotations that I recall. If the term is really out there now in the military, maybe it migrated from this usage. Perhaps we could begin use of the term for multiple mistaken repeat postings in the comments section of a web site?

Just kidding. I disagree with James; I never heard it in twenty years in the Army. Of course I’m an “old guy” and out of touch with what the current troop slang is, or for that matter the average US high schooler or college student. But I haven’t seen it anywhere else on the internet.

In many US Army officer/NCO club system dining rooms years ago, there would be frequent references to “Mongolian barbecue” which would be a stir fry of rice and vegetables, heavy on the beef. Had no negative connotations that I recall. If the term is really out there now in the military, maybe it migrated from this usage.

]]> By: RWV http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3506 RWV Wed, 12 May 2004 11:13:22 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3506 Clusterfuck is in common military usage, but I've never heard or seen it with the adjective "Mongolian", in fact I don't believe that I've ever seen it attributed to any nationality. Clusterfuck is in common military usage, but I’ve never heard or seen it with the adjective “Mongolian”, in fact I don’t believe that I’ve ever seen it attributed to any nationality.

]]> By: James Versluys http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/05/12/mongolian-what/#comment-3505 James Versluys Wed, 12 May 2004 10:46:51 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=782#comment-3505 Yes, it's a very common US slang term for a screw up. Believe it or not, I don't think it has racial or even country-wide connotations. I think it's just a play on what english speakers think is a funny word, and the phrase has a kind of cadence or rhythm to it (don't laugh, that's a major reason certain phraseshave staying power). I know for certain there is no overt connotation "against" Mongolia for the simple reason that there IS no common understanding of Mongolia in the US on a cultural level. There is no negative understanding of Mongolia for the same reason there is no positive one: there is the perfect neutrality of total ignorance. Tell your significant other there is nothing to this. Yes, it’s a very common US slang term for a screw up. Believe it or not, I don’t think it has racial or even country-wide connotations. I think it’s just a play on what english speakers think is a funny word, and the phrase has a kind of cadence or rhythm to it (don’t laugh, that’s a major reason certain phraseshave staying power).

I know for certain there is no overt connotation “against” Mongolia for the simple reason that there IS no common understanding of Mongolia in the US on a cultural level. There is no negative understanding of Mongolia for the same reason there is no positive one: there is the perfect neutrality of total ignorance.

Tell your significant other there is nothing to this.

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