UPDATE II: Now, the silliness factor is going into overdrive. Uri Party Rep. Jang Yeong-dal, chairman of the National Assembly’s National Defense Committee, said today that Korea must carefully consider using the ROK Navy or the ROK Marines to defend Dokdo. No, I’m not joking. He said it’s time for the government to express its firm intention to defend Korean territory, and we must study plans that leave the defense of the islets not just to the coast guard, but to the navy and marines. He also said:
In that Japan has a record of destroying world peace through its invasion of the Korean Peninsula and Asia, it must be take responsibility for whatever act that can obstruct peace… The Japanese government must take firm action concerning the provocation of the Japanese extreme right group.
Who said the Uri Party was a bunch of wimpy peaceniks? I’ll be curious to hear what Jang says next time the North Koreans violate the Line of Control, which should be any day now with the crab fishing season approaching. He’d better talk the same kind of smack.
*******
UPDATE: V FOR VICTORY!!!
In quite possibly the most pivotal Japanese naval defeat since Midway, the 6-ton craft carrying four right wing extremists has been forced to turn back apparently at the behest of the Japanese coast guard:
The Japanese right wing group that was planning a landing on the Dokdo Islets gave up on trying to enter Korean territorial waters Thursday morning and is on its way home.
On Wednesday afternoon, four members of the Nihon Shidokai arrived at the Oki Islands, Japanese islands located 157 km east of the Dokdo Islets. The foreign ministry said the four stayed the night at the islands and at 9:30 a.m. Thursday, departed Oki to return home to Etomo, Shimane Prefecture.
A foreign ministry official said, “I understand that the Shidokai members didn’t make and unusual movements at the Oki Islands… I understand that patrol boats from the Japanese coastal protection authority escorted the boat to the Oki Islands and persuaded the group to return to the Japanese mainland.”
Above and to your right, courtesy KBS TV, we have a picture of the mighty battleship Yamato ‘Dokdo Landing’ boat, as its crew prepare to scamper home from Oki with their tails between their legs, having been dealt a stinging defeat by the brave sailors of the ROK coast guard who, in the spirit of the great Admiral Yi Sun-shin, stand ever vigilant in their defense of the Fatherland against the predations of the evil Wae pirates.
(English piece here)
*******
I guess I don’t have to run out and stock up on ramyon and bottled water. Anyway, the already remarkably silly Dokdo issue was on the verge of getting even sillier. Courtesy the Korea Times:
The South Korean government on Wednesday was put on high alert, as Japan’s ultra rightist group are heading for the South Korean islets of Tokto in the East Sea.
Japan notified Seoul that that the Japanese rightist group called Nihon Shidokai aboard a 6-ton ship departed from Etomo near the western Japanese prefecture of Simane on its way to the South’s easternmost islets, a South Korean government official said.
The group, composed of four right wing nationalists with Yakuza ties in a 6-ton boat, reached Oki Island, which is 157 km from Dokdo; it would take about four hours to get there by boat. Silly as this stunt is, the Korean government made it clear that they would not be outdone by Korea’s traditional rivals in the silliness department:
Seoul mobilized five warships, two aircraft and five rubber dinghies along with 15 special military unit members to force back the Japanese protest boat, warning that any intruders would be dealt with sternly in accordance with international and domestic laws.
You read that correctly — five warships, two aircraft, five rubber dinghies and 15 commandos. To ward off a 6-ton boat with four quasi-Yakuza nutballs on it. That definitely requires a commemorative stamp. Maybe even a joint North-South stamp!
No word on whether Seoul has contacted the U.S. 7th Fleet for support. Nor have any unusual movements been detected out of Vladivostok.
Anyway, it appears the four-man Normandy landing won’t happen. The Hanguk Ilbo cites a Korean government official as saying that the while the intrepid island hoppers might chill out around the Oki Islands for two days conducting demonstrations claiming Dokdo is Japanese territory, a full scale invasion is unlikely. The Korean government has asked the Japanese government not to permit the group to head to Dokdo, and the Japanese government, for its part, plans to intercept the boat if it attempts to leave Japanese territorial waters. I’ll assume what they say “Japanese territorial waters,” they are not referring to the seas around Dokdo. Anyway, it seems the boat was escorted to Oki Island by Japanese coast guard cutters, just to make sure the crew didn’t get any ideas. Now, in the last CBS report, it’s saying that the group might try to make a run for Dokdo today or tomorrow, which wouldn’t surprise me given that we’re clearly dealing with some highly motivated individuals here. Before they left Shimane Prefecture, the Nihon Shidokai read a statement that went, “In accordance with Japan’s inherent spirit, we will disregard the danger of seizure and land on Dokdo.” Jeez, maybe deploying that battlegroup out by those rocks was the right call — don’t want to risk having some crazy samurai/Yakuza mofo lopping off some hapless coast guard sailor’s head.
Still, I don’t think the Japanese would allow these guys to get out of Japanese territorial waters — they’ve stopped this group before (or at least a group like them) from going to the Senkaku Islands last month. Moreover, Japan has to deal with these kinds of things from China and Taiwan all the time, so I can’t imagine Tokyo is too keen on seeing a bunch of nutballs doing exactly what it has been telling Chinese and Taiwanese groups to knock off. Still, this is nationalism issue, so who the heck knows what the Japanese (or Koreans) will do.
On an interesting note, and one which makes clear that Japan isn’t the only country with nationalist nutjobs, we have at least one civic group in Korea that has said it would go to Tsushima Island (off Pusan) and hold a demonstration claiming that the island is Korean territory.
78 Comments
‘makes clear that japan isn’t the only country…’
always looking for a way to excuse the japanese, aren’t ya, mr marmot?
That’s not an excuse. It’s a simple fact — there are nutjobs on both sides. You read the CBS report. A couple of other places picked it up as well. Granted, it’s a small bunch of nutjobs nobody has ever heard of, but then again, the Nihon Shidokai fits that bill, too. Besides, it appears that the Japanese have handled this stunt fairly well so far (and I stress the so far part). Anyway, the simple fact that I stated is not an excuse: I made it clear that the wackos in question are just that — wackos. I don’t support them, and as I’ve said before, I think Dokdo is Korean territory. But that doesn’t mean that Japan has a monopoly on nationalistic wackidom, does it?
And just to make it clear, I’m perfectly aware that some politicians in the Japanese DLP (including Koizumi) are backed by some of your more extreme elements. That’s truly unfortunate, but then again, many of your more nationalistically-minded civic groups behind the Uri Party aren’t that open-minded either, to say nothing of the way both Chinese governments have been using nationalism as a political tool. I’m sorry, but if you’re looking for me to unilaterally slam the Japanese for ultranationalism, I’m afraid I can’t.
Ah, we should see this “Dokdo”-stunt as a great entertainment show! Where in the world do you find such amusing naval maneuvers? Corean Coast Guard & Navy against Nipponese pirates: I’m Korean, so “OH PIL SEUNG COREA!”
We all know for sure, that Dokdo is under strict Korean control and any official Japanese attempt to physically regain this territory by force would mean a casus belli. Not even a ultra-conservative LDP faction or politician would dare to try such a dangerous experiment, because no Korean politician or party (be it Hannara-dang or Uri-dang) could ignore the outcry for battle and war by the South Korean population. The Korean sovereignty over Dokdo is a symbol-loaded thin red-line in the bilateral relationship with Japan. Cross this Rubicon and you’ll feel Korean hellfire on your butt…
So to me, the Japanese yakuzalike nationalists can try their naval Punch & Judy show. I’ll laugh like a wacko!
“HA HA!” - Nelson (The Simpsons)
By alerting 5 warships, air support, and a crack team of commandos they’re doing a heck of a job in demonstrating to the world that Tokdo is indeed disputed territory.
What would happen if some Japanese tried landing illegally near Pusan? Well, they should respond in a similar fashion.
Here’s the drill: a joint KBS-NHK production based on “Batoru rowaiaru,” the Japanese movie where schoolkids were taken to an island and forced to fight to the death until one remained, who was allowed to escape from the island. It would feature the nationalists from both countries, providing entertainment for all and bilateral rapprochement to boot. The survivor wins a Cyon cell phone and a Sony Walkman, and after the show Dokdo/Takeshima is blown up. (Can you tell it’s a little slow at work this morning?)
Dok-do nun oori ttang…OORI TTANG! Mmmm. I miss that hoaky song from my youth.
Dokdo is disputed territory, regardless of what Korean politicians and the media like to claim. In fact, it has been disputed for half a century.
Another misrepresentation in the Korean media is that it is the Japanese that are always trying to pick a fight over Dokdo. (See the Chosun Ilbo editorial, Japanese Gov’t Must Stop ‘Dokdo’ Landing.” On the contrary, it is the Korean government and media that always seem to be trying to pick a fight over the islet. Afterall, it was not Japan that issued Dokdo stamps or “mobilized five warships, two aircraft and five rubber dinghies along with 15 special military unit members” to deal with four activists in a small pleasure boat.
Personally, I think that Japan’s claim to the Islet is stronger than Korea’s, but then I am not an international law lawyer. Why doesn’t Korea allow this issue to be settled in an international court, as Japan has suggested? If Korea’s case is so strong, then what has she got to fear?
It just seems that it is time that this silly issue was put to rest. Otherwise, this same goofy scenario will be played out over and over for another fifty years.
I agree with Gerry on one point. If Korea is confident that Dokdo is Korean territory, which tend to agree with, why don’t they just go to the international court? Oh, that’s right, in line with victim mentality, Korea is a weak country and Japan is strong so Japan will influence the decision of the court. I say blow the rocks out of the water– end of story.
How utterly silly that four whack-jobs could cause such an uproar. Imagine alerting FIVE warships! How absurd.
The rigth wing in Japan is call the “ryu-uku” and they are truly laughable.
BTW, six of my buddies and I are planning to annex Washington State this weekend. More would come but there are only seven seat belts in my Dodge Caravan.
The National Guard is massing on the border right now.
And the Japanese are planning to march to the international court with their island disputes about Diaoyu/ Senkaku Islands and the South Kuriles/ “Northern Territories”?
They don’t want to deal about the sex-slavery-policy responsibility of the Japanese government and compensation-issue for the “comfort women” and forced labour before an “international” court, quoting always the San Francisco treaty and the compensation payment on states level in 1965, when the “comfort women”-issue wasn’t on the public radar screen.
This is grandiose: all the Gaijin Hirohitos piled up here to slander about the Korean government & media for provoking (i.e. forcing) the “honorable” Japanese ultra-nationalists to take wacko actions (i.e. island stunt)! Those released Dokdo-stamps by the Korean postal service have been a quasi-declaration of war to the Japanese emotion household, hm?
But the frequent Yasukuni-shrine visits of the Japanese PM Koizumi and other high-ranking Japanese government officials are a purely domestic issue, therefore Korean protests & comments about that issue are totally wacky, hm? Because it’s not a Japanese provocation, but a sincere meditation & prayer about the usefulness of revisionism, chauvinism, jingoism,ahem, eternal peace. Ah, and the Japanese government & mass media are always even-handed (fair & balanced) about that Yakusuni-issue or terriorial disputes with neighboring countries as well, especially newspapers like Sankei and Yomiuri Shimburn, he?
Btw, if your probably devil-turned-angel neighbor comes to your backyard, demanding foul-mouthed the little unimportant rubber duck in your part of the swimming-pool called East Sea/ Sea of Japan, because he pillaged and burnt down your house and raped your family decades and centuries ago, so that he has a “rightful” claim about the desired rubber duck: what would you do then? Crying for a court’s decision? I would load my shiny pump-gun and warn him, not to come over my fence and get in touch with his feet on my property again. End of discussion, for me.
My guess, Mr. Bevers & Compagnons are going to let out their beneficial propaganda, ahem, Buddhist mantra about Japanese altruistic, warm-hearted mission to free, educate, modernize and Japanize the poor backward, illiterate, wild-animistic Korean subhumans & savages to become civilized & productive members of mankind, ahem, Japan’s Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Zone.
P.S.:
Roughly a century ago -
“You say Korea and I say Philippines. You use chop sticks and I use fork & knife.
Anyway, it’s colonial lunch time!
Banzai and Yeeeha, long live the Japano-American partnership!!!” - until Pearl Harbor.
P.P.S.: For those who haven’t noticed, I’m seriously pissed off, so don’t provoke me…I’m the megalomaniac owner & commander of a rethorical naval battle group, muhahahaha!
Sugar Shin — look, we can bring up any number of bilateral issues between the ROK and Japan, and that wouldn’t change the fact that Seoul just deployed five warships, two aircraft and 15 commandos to fend off a 6-ton boat with four wackos from a provincial rightwing organization no one has ever heard of. Nor would it change the fact that the chairman of the Assembly’s National Defense Committee is now talking about deploying the navy and marines to the area in response to a “provocation” that the Japanese gov’t not only tipped Seoul off on, but used its coast guard to make sure didn’t get past Japanese territorial waters.
Ay, typo: “rhetorical” instead of rethorical. Maybe I own only a little rubber dinghy. :), ignore the other numerous typos!
Mr. Marmot, I was only angry about the use of this Dokdo-story as a angle for some guys to nag about the Koreans (gov & media) in general. As you know, many Korean politicians use this never-ending Dokdo-saga as a gung-ho political tool, just like the Japanese counterparts on this and other topics. They know, that Koreans get easily out of hand emotionally and react furiously - they’re betting on it, be it a bunch of nationalistic Japanese wackos or serious members of the Japanese political elite. Some of you are amused or annoyed about the Korean overreaction? Maybe because you haven’t been forced to drink the colonial piss of the Japanese in the past.
Said this, I’ll calm down and go ship-spotting.
Where in the world do you find such amusing naval maneuvers?
Oh, Canada and Denmark have a almost as hilarious dispute about Hans Island right now. Tiny island near Greenland that both claim. A Danish Navy ship went and planted the Danish flag on the island about a month ago. Unfortunately for the Canadians, while they’d like to respond, they don’t have any iceworthy ships that could actually reach the island. So they’re sending a massive flotilla to another quasi-disputed area instead.
Oh, and another one is one of those rock off the coast of Morocco that Spain claims. A bunch of drunk Moroccans seized it from the goatherder who lives there in July of 2001. A large team of crack Spanish commandos then recaptured it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Perejil
Screw Midway. They need to make a movie out of this!
Why am I not surprised this is a serious issue?
Isn’t there some Bermuda Triangle clone around there the Japanese whackjobs can get lost in?
On the other side, it doesn’t speak well of the Korean armed forces to mobilize 5 ships, 2 aircraft, and a number of ajummas (forgive the spelling) in inflated truck tire innertubes to stop one boat with saki fueled idiots. I wonder what would happen if I arrived with a loaded Winchester. Could I take over Korea by daybreak? Of course I’d have the American Military all with wet pants from laughing themselves silly to the point of loss of bladder control.
“Oh, Canada and Denmark have a almost as hilarious dispute about Hans Island right now.” Do not mock my great nation. Hans Island rightfully belongs to Canada. It is a fact. It cannot be disputed. The Danes are once again trying to glorify their Viking past and oppress Canada. Anyway, I’ll have to deface a Danish flag with a big X through it and protest in front of the Danish Embassy in Tokyo. Damn Danes!
Sugar Shin,
How old ARE you, anyway? The Japanese colonial piss was taken away in 1945.
How old are All of you, anyway?! I’d like to know because you are all overreacting, both projapan or prokorea. What’s a little perverted is it seems ‘weak korea’ is criticized and scrutinized for any defensive measures whether spoken or literal. This has been my observation, GET OVER IT!
Despite the fact that Gerry Bevers has his head completely up his ass (Japan annexed Dokdo along with the rest of Korea, so doesn’t Japan also have a right to claim the rest of the Korean peninsula, too?), the sarcastic attitude taken by you bloggers is, I have to admit, actually funny. The whole “Battleship Yamato” thing…very funny. However, the bad blood between the two countries is what all of this is really all about. Let’s not discount that, please. Colonization was never meant to be kind. Oh, btw Gerry Bevers, Korea exercised official maintanence and authority over the islets in 1900, according to Korean registers from that period. Japan claims it’s own from 1905. So who has a better claim?
…I agree with Gerry on one point: Korea SHOULD take the dispute (Yes, it IS a dispute) to an international court. Korea would win the decision based on the overwhelming precedents and solid foundation of documentation on its side. This is where I agree that Korea’s persecution complex gets in the way. I don’t think that a court would be unfair and necessarily view things in Japan’s favor. It’s not to say that Japan wouldn’t, however, use all of its maneouvering ability to gets things done in its favor. The ROK should get some intestinal fortitude and face the situation in court, for both nation’s sakes. It would be a great day for Korea to take the first steps to stop this stupidity once and for all.
Agree with Brian. They need to make a movie out of this.
Something along the lines of “Independence Day” could be the way to go!
Cheers!
>….I agree with Gerry on one point: Korea SHOULD take the dispute (Yes, it IS a dispute)>
Interesting thought but Korea would never abide by any ruling that was not in its favour.
I have a roof rack on my van if anyone else wants to particapate in the annexation of Washington State this weekend. It is, afterall, Canadian territory.
Kimchipig, it’s actually the other way around. Fifty-four forty or fight! (http://geography.about.com/lib.....31600a.htm) Heh.
Hmm, I wonder if the further delay in the Iraq deployment is because they need the troops to defend Dokdo. (I agree: the silliness meter has really pegged on this one)
>Interesting thought but Korea would never abide by any ruling that was not in its favour.
Very lame statmement. Only a pig would make. How do I know you’re an american pig who has an obession with asia? I can just smell it. Let me give you a dose of honesty because you’re not qualified to pretend to be the all knowing judge on this matter(sarcasm). It has nothing to do with Korea not abiding by a ruling not in its favor but actually abiding by a ruling that is unfair. As a simpleton might understand, history has proven that morality or what is ‘right’ has rarely been the moving argument but power and influence. Hence, anyone with half a brain and some honesty can understand korean paranoia if it can even be called that. So up yours kimchi pig because you stink and not like kimchi.
According to the Korean Ministry of Maritime Affairs & Fisheries, the Korean government’s strategy on Dokdo is to deny that Dokdo is a disputed territory, in an attempt to claim “effective domination,” which apparently requires “continuous and peaceful display of sovereignty.”
This would explain why Korea continues to make the ridicuous claim that Dokdo is undisputed terrority and why she is always stirring up the Dokdo issue, hoping that Japan will eventually get tired of refuting her claims on the islets. If Japan stops responding to Korea’s claims, then Korean will be able to argue “effective domination,” by saying it has had “continuous and peaceful display of sovereingnty.” Therefore, Japan has no choice but to continue to assert her claims on the islets everytime Korea reasserts her claim.
According to the Korean ministry site, the Korean government does not want Dokdo to become “the subject of diplomatic negotiation,” in spite of the fact that some in the Korean media are suggesting that Korea take that route. The Korean government seems determined to continue with her strategy of covering her ears and shouting over and over, “It’s ours, it’s ours, it’s ours.”
Here is the link to the Korean Ministry of Maritime Affairs & Fishies’ explanation of Korea’s “Policy about Dokdo.”
By the way, Mark is wrong in regard to Dokdo. Korea did not annex Dokdo along with the Korean pennisula. Japan officially claimed sovereignty of Takeshima in 1905 and had established sovereignty of the islets as far back as 1661, according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan. The Korean pennisula was annexed by Japan until 1910.
Brendon Carr,
My maternal and paternal grandparents drank the colonial piss cocktail and after 1945 everything was fine. All the bad memories had gone stante pede, they suddenly hugged and love everything Japanese and understandably laughed like hell during the Korean War about the glorious days of colonialism. After they survived all those nasty biographical stations until their final passing-away, they had always a bright smile on their faces, when they thought about, what beneficial & altruistic Imperial Japan provided them… shiny happy people. [/sarcasm off]
To balance the links of “Last Samurai” Gerry-san (sorry, man, I can’t withstand to bitch about your pro-Japanese opinion), I’ve stolen an informative pro-Korean Dokdo link from About Joel, who posted it on Oranckay’s site. Thanks, Joel, hope you don’t mind my link-robbery and also thanks to Mr.Oranckay, he’s also interesting posts about the whole Dokdo theme.
End of transmission.
>
You and your buddies are welcome to invade. Problem is you will never be able to get to 55″ 40′ because of the price of gasoline here.
To compound matters, there is a beer strike here. Why come to Canada if you can’t drink the delicious brew here!
I don’t disagree that Korea is approaching this the wrong way, Gerry. …Especially since they have the better claim, and much of the evidence proving their case even comes from JAPANESE sources (rulings from the Japanese Council of State in 1877, Japanese Colonial land registers, Imperial Japanese Government maps, etc)
btw, Gerry you need to understand:
The annexation of Korean territory took place on a CONTINUUM of time from around the 1890s to the final annexation paperwork written up by the Japanese in 1910. It was during this period of imperialistic advance into Korea that Dokdo was annexed; so was Ullungdo. Next were the markets and mineral interests in Korea. Japan annexed all of these along with the rest of the Korean peninsula during this PERIOD of time. Were the dates different? Sure. But what was happening in 1905 is exactly the same process that was happening in 1910.
I’m not all discounting the technical arguments nor details such as dates but the fact is japan annexed dokdo and its claim is false. It is so blatantly false it is amazing but not for the japanese. Another issue is korea is very wary of anything cultural from entering korea because japan may one day claim that it is theirs! Now you have a small glimpse into the ridiculous dynamic between these two sibling nations. What’s more disgusting is that truth is not an issue as the classic example here but prokorea or projapan as individual prejudices are the real motivations for thier arguments and perspectives (even among so-called grown, mature people). Another new development and sentiment regarding the west is the esteem and apeing of japan and all things japanese by the west but they completely ignore the fact if japan could have conquered you it would have done so happily. Makes me laugh. End of story.
Kimchipig, it’s over 2 dollars a gallon for gas here, so I doubt it’d be all that different. And we want to invade for the wildlife (http://gweilodiaries.com/archives2/000369.html).
Free Coffee Crisps for All!
Coincidentally, today’s front page of the US edition of the WSJ has an article about the Canadian vs Danish dispute over the small island near Greenland.
It mentions that when the two countries send military patrols to the place at intervals to reinforce their claim, they leave each other bottles of liquor (schnapps from the Vikings, Candian whiskey from the Canucks), along with humorous notes that say something like “A gift from the nation of __________ (Canada/Denmark) whose property this is”.
I gather the “fraternal Asian peoples” of Japan and South Korea have not yet quite reached this level of amicable discord. I recommend it to them, and in particular to you Korean posters here, whose purple-faced rhetoric is quite unbecoming. Keep a stiff upper lip about it, in the best traditional “old boy” English manner. After all, we can all learn from the best features of each others’ cultures, can’t we?
Try leaving a bottle of whatever the traditional Korean liquor is on the islet for your Japanese neighbors (undiluted by piss whether regular or colonial, of course). Hopefully they’ll reciprocate with a bottle of good sake.
I have a roof rack on my van if anyone else wants to particapate in the annexation of Washington State this weekend. It is, afterall, Canadian territory.
…oh, great, more Canuckleheads who think the posted speed limit is in kilometers. Do us all a favor and stay out of the left lane, mmmkay?
We can all rest assured that Bu$h will get the word to his Saudi friends to drop the price of oil, but only after the summer. High gas prices do not make good copy during an election campaign.
To all lamenting North American folks, who decry the high gasoline price.
1 litre gasoline (super) in Germany costs 1,2 ???.
1??? = 1,21 US $
1 US gallon = 3,785 litre
1 US gallon gasoline = 5,49 US $ in Germany.
I must add, that the Green Party (minor coalition partner of the governing Social Democrats) had introduced an “Eco-tax” on gasoline a few years ago. It’s madly expensive and still the Autobahn is crowded with SUVs, trucks, sedans, vans and filled with traffic jams.
To Paul H.,
Keep a stiff upper lip about it, in the best traditional “old boy” English manner.
Just like in the Falklands/Malvinas War 1982?
In Canada and the USA we are used to cheap gasoline and are more dependant on cars than in Europle, particularly since the huge spaces here kind of preclude public transit.
I bought gas today at C$0.88 per litre today and that tranlates to 0.53 Euro or $2.40 US per US gallon so it is still pretty cheap. We also have Eco taxes that go to pay for transit that only about 15% of Vancouver commuters use.
One actually does not see a lot of SUVs on the road here. Canadians tend to be rather conservative in their car buying choices.
Sugar Shin: Unlike the islands in question here, the Falklands had a couple of thousand inhabitants who most assuredly did not wish to trade the benign colonial rule of England for the military dictatorship of Argentina.
“Lessons of the Falklands”
http://www.steynonline.com/index2.cfm?edit_id=69
Which in turn reminds me of the old dispute between England and Spain over Gibraltar (not an island of course but a tiny peninsula with a big rock, eternally engraved in the memory of Americans of a certain age as the symbol of the Prudential insurance company…)
English self-deprecating liberals have been ready to turn Gibraltar over the Spanish for many years now. There’s just one problem — the “Gibraltarians” (if that’s the right word) don’t want to stop being English colonial subjects (about 30,000 of them if I remember correctly…hmmm, I don’t know where the Gib. issue stands right now…)
In all the folderol here (38 posts — amazing), is there any indication of any actual value to these islets (natural resources — undersea oil reserves, fisheries?). Is there a useful harbor?
Hard for me to see any strategic utility in the location as a potential military bases in this era of long-range missiles and naval/air forces.
‘keep a stiff upper lip about it…’ paul
can you show us how that’s done, paul?
‘gerry’s pro-japanese positions…’ Sugar Shin
gerry bevers isn’t pro japanese, he’s anti-korean. he’ll take any position that’s contrary to korea’s opinion and he’ll lie to do it.
‘go to international court.’ member of the angry expat brigade (MAEB)
there’s no need for korea to go court about this since there’s nothing to resolve. the ‘dispute’ here is entirely created by the japanese and their insistance that tokdo belongs to japan. tokdo belongs to korea. sorry, MAEB.
why don’t some of you visit a ‘tooboo’ house and enjoy some good tofu stew? try to take a break and enjoy the positive of korea.
ps i want to thank you conservative nuts for giving us that mess in iraq. did you see those photos? bush has lost his war.
and so have you.
YES, there is value to the islets. You do know that the world’s fishing stocks are being depleted, and that Northeast Asia’s waters (ie, the SEA OF JAPAN/EAST SEA) has some of the least used stocks. That would be a good enough reason. Also, further exploration of the seabed has to take place to examine whether any sort of mineral/gas/oil is extant. If any of that shit is found there, you’ll see the big guns come out!
I also somewhat agree with Shin that Korea should not HAVE TO defend its claim in an international court, since the islets rightfully belong to Korea. HOWEVER, when a country as influential as Japan says that the island belongs to them, you simply have to deal with it. Korea shouldn’t have to dignify the Japanese claim by going to court, I know it sucks, and it IS unfair, but I think that RESOLUTION of the situation would do well for all involved. But again, I really don’t see what the Koreans have to fear in a court. Korea would win. The Japanese (and Gerry) claim that Japan had the islets since 1667, but at the same time, they claim their “legal” incorporation of Dokdo as a TERRA NULLIUS (land without ownership) in 1905!!! So what the hell is Japan’s position?? It was theirs, then it wasn’t, then it was again?? Korea has much earlier, better-documented, and consistent claims than Japan does. Japan has a completely wacked claim that is based on 19th (early 20th) Century imperialism.
Read more:
http://www.geocities.com/mlovmo/page4.html
DOKDO IS KOREAN TERRITORY!!!!
KOREA RULED MOST PART OF ASIA 5000 YEARS AGO!!!!
DAEHAN MINGUK!!!
GREAT KOREA!!!!!!!!!
Jong-il,
I’m not pro- or anti-Japanese or Korean, but I am against the lies, half-truths, exaggerations, and biased reporting that I regularly see in the Korean media in regard to the United States and Japan.
I also believe that Koreans are distorting the history of Japan’s colonial rule of Korea, probably in an attempt to hide their complicity with the Japanese during the war in Asia and the Pacific.
Few people outside of Korea and Japan had any love for the Japanese after World War II, which is probably why Korea was allowed to distance herself from Japan by claiming that she was also a victim, whether than an ally. Now it has come to the point that if anyone questions Korea’s status as a victim of Japan, they are yelled down by almost every Korean around the world who went through Korea’s nationistic education system.
If I have lied to make any of my arguments, why don’t you show me, Jong-il, instead of just suggesting that I lie.
As far as the soverergnty issue of Dokdo is concerned, why does Korea refuse to allow the issue to be settled by an international court?
I think one reason Korea refuses to allow an international court to settle the issue is because she feels her case is weak in regard to the concept of “practical management.” According to the following Web page, Standpoints of Japan and Korea, Ullungdo was left uninhabited for 450 years during the Chosun Dynasty because of the Dynasty’s “empty island” policy. The Japanese argue that if Korea neglected to manage even Ullungo, who is going to believe that they had any concern for Dokdo?
I do not know about the others who post here, but I manage to enjoy Korean food and culture while also posting on Korean issues.
Baekje is obviously being facetious to make korea look bad. Again very lame but I’ve seen this too often its pathetic.
I could care less if you enjoy korean food or culture you sick, twisted, secret racist moron! You are feigning and pretending you are not racist or prejudice toward korea but you are. Lies and distortions in the korean media against japan and the united states?!! As if they do not have lies an distortions in their own media! You are such a typical japanese buttkisser its not funny! how nauseating because have your head completely in the clouds. Go back home and get out of korea or go to japan. Thanks
I would like to announce this Gerry Bevers should get his face slapped and his mouth washed out with soap. He is also a liar because he is projapanese and he is also ‘Chosunseki’ who has gone to numerous forums spouting the same nonsense but with much more venom and hate. I’m just letting the reputable people on this board know that there are pretenders such as him who pretend to not be prejudiced but they are.
>I also believe that Koreans are distorting the history of Japan’s colonial rule of Korea, probably in an attempt to hide their complicity with the Japanese during the war in Asia and the Pacific.
Few people outside of Korea and Japan had any love for the Japanese after World War II, which is probably why Korea was allowed to distance herself from Japan by claiming that she was also a victim, whether than an ally. Now it has come to the point that if anyone questions Korea’s status as a victim of Japan, they are yelled down by almost every Korean around the world who went through Korea’s nationistic education system
You need to be lynched for this statement. Statements such as these make me wish japan had been successful at pearl harbor. piss on you dumb crackers who waste time with your useless god-pretending psuedo-ego, judgemental worthless opinion formings. pathetic, pathetic, and …laughable!!!
>I think one reason Korea refuses to allow an international court to settle the issue is because she feels her case is weak in regard to the concept of “practical management.” According to the following Web page, Standpoints of Japan and Korea, Ullungdo was left uninhabited for 450 years during the Chosun Dynasty because of the Dynasty’s “empty island” policy. The Japanese argue that if Korea neglected to manage even Ullungo, who is going to believe that they had any concern for Dokdo?
Hey Gerryphile, I absolutely agree with you on this. I do believe korea is wary of this BUT it still does not give japan the right regardless. It is the same logic if I don’t wear a certain shirt but sits in my drawer it is not really mine or I’m a millionaire but someone else is more financially needy so it should be confiscated. If korea ever did go to court and it was handed to japan, it would be confiscation and an injustice pointblank and would be a classic example of power and influence winning over what is rightfully someone else’s property. Evidently this is clearly the stuff your moral sense is made of. Sick!
“…oh, great, more Canuckleheads who think the posted speed limit is in kilometers. Do us all a favor and stay out of the left lane, mmmkay?”
…and what’s with driving 65 km/h in the PASSING lane with the left directional flashing for an hour at a time?!?!?!?
>>KOREA RULED MOST PART OF ASIA 5000 YEARS AGO!!!!>>
More laughable silliness from angry Korean boys. 5000 years ago the earth was inhibated by a few scattered tribes that barely ever went beyond the limits of their hunting grounds. The idea of national entities came at least 2000 year later.
Gerry, while I agree with most of what you say, you can never hope to have a rational argument with a nationalist of any creed. The Bu$h crowd comes immediately to mind.
Gerry: Yes, it was the policy of Chosun to have an “empty island” policy for Ullungdo. Chosun, however, did not recind its sovereignty over it. What is not being said is that despite the official policy, Koreans were settling there anyway. The government would occasionally inspect the island and kick the squatters out, but Korean settlers would always come back to farm and log. The Japanese started to exploit the island in the late 1800s, and the Korean Govt. would complain, and got the Japanese govt. to remove Japanese who were illegally logging or fishing at Ullungdo. The Japanese changed their tune, of course, when they decided to expand into Korea. Ullungdo, like Dokdo, was incorporated into Japan during that period. Korean documents show that they considered Dokdo an appended island to Ullungdo. So, Gerry, does Ullungdo (Utsuryo-to in Japanese) belong to Japan, too? HELL NO!
A good read is by Japanese professor, Kazuo Hori: “Japan’s incorporation of Takeshima Island” I think is the title.
If I may intervene for a moment, would it be too much to ask posters to concentrate their efforts on impersonal arguments rather than attacks on particular individuals. Thanks.
Gerry, while I don’t have a problem in theory with a nation using brute force to incorporate territory — must nations have done it, and I’m not planning to return the U.S. southwest to Mexico just because we bushwacked them to get it — I do have a problem with Japan’s claims to have encorporated Dokdo in 1905 because Japan lost most of its overseas territory as a result of loosing WWII. Granted, the Dokdo Islets were a bit of a grey area, but that issue was seemingly solved the way most of these issues get solved in the end — by landing troops. Not the most diplomatic way to get things done, but still, the only way Japan is going to get those rocks is by taking them by force, which Japan is clearly not prepared to do, regardless of its legal arguments. Korea probably has decent legal claims to China’s Gan-do and Russia’s Nokdun-do as well, but you know it’ll never see those territories again for the same reasons. Even if Dokdo went to the ICJ, which I doubt it would, the Koreans would probably reject the court’s jurisdiction in the matter (which would put them in pretty good company — just ask the Nicaraguans). Being that this is the case, and the Koreans are unlikely to bought off as the Russians might eventually be with the Kurils, Tokyo should drop the issue, because all it’s doing is causing bilateral friction. As far as I am concerned, both nations could advance quasi-convicing legal claims (if you’re a believer in international law, which I ain’t), but Korea has the troops there and Japan doesn’t. Regardless of whether the Chosun Dynasty had control of the region before 1905, the ROK sure as hell has it now, and the rocks aren’t worth the diplomatic and potentially military trouble it would take to get them back. It’s a reality that might not be pretty from Tokyo’s standpoint, but then again, the way they encorporated those islands in 1905 wasn’t pretty, either. For what it’s worth, I support Japan’s claims on the Senkaku Islands for the same reason — Japan has control, and if China wants them, they’re going to have to get them the old fashioned way, and it seems going to war with a powerful nation that happens to be a major trading partner and investor is a bit much for control of sea resources in the area.
Yes, Marmot, that is basically the situation.
But if not by international law, how does this situation get resolved if neither party backs off? Is international law useless in this case? Should we despise international law, like you, and just let this crap go on? This kind of situation is what international law is for, don’t you think?(and btw, the violation of which is what is holding US troops accountable in Iraq, Afghanistan and Cuba). I know some of the standards for territorial claims are nebulous, but what should happen if the two countries wanted to go to war over this? Should a larger power just jump in and “get there just in time”, like Ronald Regan did in Grenada? That would not solve the problem.
An ICJ ruling in Korea’s favor, which I think would happen, would get the Japanese Foreign Ministry to shut up, and get the Japanese and Koreans to move on to bigger and better things.
If neither party backs off, it’s an unfortunate situation. There are tons of similar border disputes like this, and in most of them, the parties involved don’t back down. And while you’re correct — the use of force doesn’t usually “solve” this problem — there’s no guarantee that an ICJ ruling would, either. First off, there’s no guarantee that it would rule in Korea’s favor, and even if it did, there’s no guarantee the Japanese Foreign Ministry would accept the ruling. Nations have been known to ignore ICJ rulings, the U.S. included. The ICJ is a useful way to settle these disputes if both sides want to play, and in this case, only one side wants to. And that’s not a slam on Korea, BTW — if the situation were reversed and you had Japanese troops on Dokdo, I’m sure the Koreans would be looking to take the case to the ICJ and the Japanese would be pretending that the disputed territory is not, in fact, disputed. That how these things usually work. Fortunately, most countries don’t go to war over things like this — the costs of going to war usually outweigh the rewards of winning. And in those cases were those rewards were thought to outweigh the costs, the rules of international law often get ignored and off to battle the two sides went. It’s one of the big problems with international law — it’s more like a set of gentlemen’s agreements usually worked out by powerful nations than “law” in the domestic sense, which means that most people follow it because it’s in their interests to do so, but in those instances where it isn’t and the other “gentlemen” aren’t willing or able to enforce it, it tends to be rather ineffective for obvious reasons. In this case, luckily, a war over Dokdo would be insane for both countries involved, and Japan in particular (because given the situation on the ground, it would have to start it). Which means if rational decision making is in play (which, of course, is not always the case), this issue will be solved when one of the two — probably Japan — finally decides to throw in the towel. Until that time, this issue will continue to be a pain in the ass of bilateral relations until people in Tokyo decides to get smart, cut their losses and, as you say, move on to bigger and better things.
Yeah, I know, it’s not a pretty way to look at the world. But I’m a strict international relations realists (or at least I try to be), so at least you know which school of thought I’m coming from. I do realize, however, there are other models of international relations out there which may be just as valid, even if I don’t count myself as a student.
Must have something to do with enforcement. Speeding in BC is greeted with big fines and quickly, too.
BTW, while I am invading Washington, which of my American enemies want to give me a bed, beer and steaks?
‘more lauphable silliness from arngry korean boys.’ kimdhi pig
‘more lauphable siliness from angry white boy.’ shin jong il
you, sir kimchi pig, are an idiot. and a racist too. how can you be married and have children with a people you simply despise?
are you a member of the nation of islam?
Jong-il
“‘makes clear that japan isn’t the only country…’
always looking for a way to excuse the japanese, aren’t ya, mr marmot? ”
That makes mr marmot look fair.
“KOREA RULED MOST PART OF ASIA 5000 YEARS AGO!!!!”
Koreans in my class always say samething.
KimcheePigster:
Good luck with the WA B&B, but the third amendment to the US Constitution strictly prohibits quartering of troops. Sorry. You can keep your skunky Canadian beer as well, gimme any micro from the good ol’ US of A. The best beer available here on the ROK is at JJ’s Cantina on Aragon Alley, Shin Jang Shopping Mall, Shin Jang-1 dong Pyeongtaek shi, Kyeonggi do, etc…(SONGTAN–near Osan Air Base). Draft Guinness, fridges full of Euro, Canadian, and yes, shit water Bud/Miller/Coors crap as well.
Good luck on the invasion.
BTW, I just caught up with most of these comments and this has got to be one of the grandest BS festivals on the Marmot’s dime ever.
Marmot, you have the best all around blog that interests me. This has got to rank up there for the most comments.
Kimchipig, you are hilarious, but not as talented as Sugar Daddy Shin.
Sugar Shin, you are the man.
All: Dokdo/Takeshima is a smattering of fucking rocks that poke out of the Dong Hae/SOJ. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. Koreans tend to overreact on some matters. (Don’t we all). It’s about national pride in both directions. The best way to solve it is to duke it out. However, while Japan will always be the common enemy, in perpetuity, of the Koreas, somebody has to tell Dae Han Min Guk that the real enemy is Kim, “the Jongger” Jong Il and him minions, not Japan. After reunification, Greater Korea can then focus on more mundane matters such as Dokdo. Hell, after that’s solved, they should go after Tsushima, after all, it appears to be closer to Korea than to Japan.
Later.
Kimchipig, you are hilarious, but not as talented as Sugar Daddy Shin.
Sugar Shin, you are the man. - Dave in Songtan
Can I take this as a undeserved compliment or have I missed a sarcastic undertone??? Help please, I’m not a native English speaker.
Seriously, man, I mean it. You have a gift. I have always enjoyed your comments. No sarcasm whatsoever. Please send beir, your country needs more. So do I. It is a very inconvenient place to be a homebrewer.
Take care bro,
Dave
Thanks for the comment, Dave. I love sending children like Shin Jong il into thier racist diatribes, it gives me a real chuckle. No sense of humour at all.
I also agree with you on most Canadian beers., The main ones are not very good but the micro brews are excellent and there are lots of them. They are all I drink.
I plan to do the U-brew thing with my landlord, he is a very nice guy,
If you would like to exchange some e-mails, send me on at japanguy74@yahoo.com
The Truth will set you free, or something. Or is it Real Life? More revelations will surely follow…
>I love sending children like Shin Jong il into thier racist diatribes
So are you hypocrite so just let it go already. As hard as it is to believe that a racist can be married and have children it happens quite a lot. Its called white supremacy, not that everyone caucasian is but I should know because my stepfather married my korean mother and had little mongrel children which he made sure they knew that thier other side was more superior than the other subtle or overt but unbelievably and hypocritically feel themselves better and more special than their non-mixed counterparts. I’m a stepchild and boy do I have the inside scoop on these relationships. Isn’t nature sometimes sick? Ditto!
Marmots, do not delete this post because it is important that people know this because it happens far too often like a dirty secret. Don’t you dare!
Well said Dave in Songtan!
I promise to buy if you’re ever in the vicinity and feeling thirsty (Eureka CA). Or if chance finds me in the Hermit Kingdom I’ll treat you, since you’ve been so gracious as to share your hard-won knowledge of the best Korean watering holes…and after all if i’m going to promote the peace-inducing method of buying a drink for your neighbor, I’d better be prepared to set a good example myself.
62 posts and counting! Have such small islets ever before led to such big blogging? In contrast speculation about USFK to Iraq gets 2 posts — total dullsville. Oh well, political
science and diplomacy can be pretty theoretical, but everyone understands “land”. Hey, Lex Luthor said something along those lines to Otis and Superman, right before he unleashed a couple of rogue nuclear missiles! (See movie “Superman” — the first one I think).
O gentlemen of Korea, if the English “stiff upper lip” model fails to appeal I commend to you that of the “inscrutable Oriental”, as in the speaking-of-Hollywood “Charlie Chan” movies of the 30’s and 40’s? After all, Charlie remained calm and patient and always solved the problem, yes?
(Uh oh wait a minute he was Chinese, here comes another outburst of nationalist ire. Time to duck back into the foxhole and start ducking that warm piss…)
Thanks, Dave. I was perplexed, that you have put me in company with kimchipig, whom I don’t count as my soulmate (comrade). But I don’t want to fight anymore (for now, kehkehkeh), after all those rounds of heavy punching & kicking.
What do you want, homebrewer? Beck’s (my favorite sort), Veltins, Paulaner, Warsteiner, Krombacher, K?́¨‹nig-Pils, Holsten, Jever etc. There are hundreds of beer sorts here in Germany and most of the big breweries now in foreign claws, er, ownership (damned them Belgians, Danes and South Africans!).
Thanks to heaven, that Marmot has a compassionate heart for profane off-topic excursions!
Let’s not forget Warsteiner, one of the best mass produced beers out there.
To the nameless troll who posted at [May 9, 2004 01:18 AM].
I regret sinking to your level and responding, but you are the racist. Sounds like stepdaddy was a little hard on you.
The point: my daughter is American; half Korean thanks to her mom, and half white, courtesy of my DNA. If you refer to her as a mongrel again, I will track you down and beat the living crap out of you. Seriously, that was a poor word choice.
Guys, why does this happen everytime Dokdo rears it’s ugly head? The Korea Times killed it’s comments section because it couldn’t keep up with the insanity. When logical discussions degrade into base racism, we all lose. I’m not trying to be the moderator here, but try to keep it light. Have a beer, relax.
BTW, Pigster, I’ll drop you a line, but you won’t like me. I’m a Republican who supports his President (used to be my Commander in Chief until I retired from the Air Force last year).
Marmot, thanks for the excellent forum.
Dave in Songtan
I’m not the racist and by the way you can’t hunt me down and beat me and of course your daughter is a mongrel, I said it again “mongrel.” My point was definitely true and there are racists that marry out of thier race and even make fun of and degrade other races, especially the race of his own wife. I’ve seen countless nonasians with asian female marriages that have been a study in blatant racism. This dynamic happens often because thier attraction fundamentally was based on the wrong motivation possibly even an underhanded need to dominate and I’ve seen it turn into basically a servant/tyrant relationship among others. Maybe you should consider this a lesson learned instead of labeling me the racist. All truths don’t always have a pure ending.
>The point: my daughter is American; half Korean thanks to her mom, and half white, courtesy of my DNA. If you refer to her as a mongrel again, I will track you down and beat the living crap out of you. Seriously, that was a poor word choice.
Its very clear by your response you are a ’supremacist’ and probably more racist than you realize. Your daughter is ‘american’ right? Thats the same line my stepfather used and told my mother to never speak korean to me because I was now an american and he pretty much made it known through his attitude and behavior everything ‘american’ was the superior and better way and half. As a matter of fact, he just loved being condescending towards asians whether tacitly or not. My stepfather is a freaking idiot and he couldn’t stand me because I actually revealed to him that he was actually racist just from me being me. Profound? Real life and the ugly but surprising truth to all parties involved. Heh. Give me a break I know more than you, believe me.
I don’t know Dave or his family personally, but I’ll assume he refers to his daughter as “American” not out of racism, but because she carries an American passport. If my kids ends up with a Korean passport — enjoying all the rights of Korean citizens — despite their father being American and her mother Mongolian, they’d be 50% American, 50% Mongolian and 100% Korean. And for the last time, would posters refrain from race-baiting and try to keep comments somewhere close to the subject at hand. I hate to remind people of this, but referring to other commentors’ children as “mongrels” in a manner that was clearly meant to cause offense isn’t cool, and I’d prefer not to see it in my comments section. I don’t want to edit, delete or otherwise police comments, so please, if you’ve got nothing nice to say about the ethnic background of individual posters or their families, keep it to yourself.
Well said, Mr. Marmot. It’s getting hot & nasty here from all sides, I guess.
Notice to Dave in Songtan: Thanks, but I couldn’t deliver my answer-mail to your adress. Maybe your spam-filter or my personal firewall don’t like each other. Couldn’t fix it with my amateurish computer skills. Man, you wouldn’t like my anti-Bush views either: George W. Bush is a red cloth to me and I always act like a friggin’ Raging Bull… it’s habitual.
Good Lord, this must be the No.1 response-post of yours, Mr. Marmot. All sting-ready bees are flying to your honey pot!
>>If my kids ends up with a Korean passport — enjoying all the rights of Korean citizens — despite their father being American and her mother Mongolian, they’d be 50% American, 50% Mongolian and 100% Korean>>
Marmot, while I respect almost everything you say and admire your sense of homour, I cannot but remind you that your future children will not be given Korean citizenship. You should know by now no matter how well you speak Korea and try to emulate Korean behaviour, you will always be an outsider.
When they are finished with you, they will toss you on the pile of used waygooks and get another one. Koreans tend to not like “The waygook who knows too much.” For example, when my former employer tried to scam me out of a couple of million Won, I knew EXACTLY how to recover it and did in short order. The fresh waygooks did not and the boss got their money.
Ahhhh, the virtues of the Freedom of Speech. While I usually try to restrain myself from taking part in these mud-slinging festivals in the Marmot’s Hole, especially since my brilliant brother Sugar Shin does such an admirable job of dissing out raving idiots with his deadly humorous wit, I figured this thread has already become such a beehive of emotionally-charged rhetoric that I might as well throw in my own few sentences of trash talk on this issue.
That fact is, my friends, Dokdo belongs to Corea, and the Corean army belongs to Corea, period. So whatever the fuck we do with our own military on our own island is none of anyone else’s fuckin’ business. We can send in cruise missiles and destroyers and submarines to intercept the puny boat carrying the four right-wing Japanese imperialists if we want, and we don’t need to give a rat’s ass about what foreigners think about that. I say we send in even more, and show the world that we’re not taking any more crap from shit-headed imperialists and will gladly kick their asses if they get any wise ideas. And you Yanks who want to mock our government for protecting our own territory, perhaps you should smack your foreheads and turn to the troops your President sends to other countries. That’s right, not its OWN territory, not even DISPUTED territory, but FOREIGN territory. Your government lies to its people and sends billions of dollars’ worth of high-tech military hardware to bomb the hell out of a country in the Middle East that’s been impoverished and debilitated by decades of sanctions, then rattles off the most childish and trash-loaded shit-talk about how it’s such a fuckin’ hero and a bestower of freedom and democracy, yet you laugh at our government moving a few troops to protect (both practically and symbolically) a part of our own land? PAHAHAHAHAHA!!! (Force-powered thunderous laughter that can be heard miles away)
There’s no need to go to the international court, no need to waste time haggling with ultra-conservative morons in Japan, no need to pay heed to the kind of crap that people like the Angry Expat Brigade (Mr. Shin Jong Il, I like this term) like to give. It’s our land, and we do whatever we want with it. Your time would be better served tending to other matters than whining about how we defend ourselves.
So, may the Force be with you, my young Padewans.
Signed,
The Pythi Master.
My modest proposal:
Japan should:
1. Unilaterally renounce claims to Takeshima/Tokdo.
2. Invest the first $1 billion of its expected post-war pay out to North Korea to fund construction of a palace on Tokdo large enough to accommodate Kim Jong-il, his entourage and family and his father’s mausoleum.
South Korea should:
1. Demilitarise Tokdo.
2. Use its “special friendship” with North Korea to facilitate the removal of the Kim family to Tokdo — if necessary, apply some ruse such as making Tokdo the capital of a united Korea.
3. Tell Kim Jong-il (when he and his cohorts start complaining about the lack of food, running water and electricity) that Tokdo was created to resemble conditions faced by the vast majority of the people of the DPRK.
The United States should:
1. (After all South Korean personnel have left Tokdo and fishermen warned) Use whatever firepower necessary to completely destroy every bit of Tokdo down to about 100 metres below sea level, taking the DPRK regime with it.
Woojay — I responded to your comment on your blog.
If Korean wants to send 100,000 soldiers to “defend” Tokto from four whack-jobs, by all means that is its option.
However, I am still entitled to laugh my ass off about it.
It falleth like gentle rain from heaven…
PING:
TITLE: Asia by blog
BLOG NAME: Simon World
Yesterday’s Asia by blog has proved a resounding success, if the sole email I got in reply is anything to go by. Durian Nation got the idea. Link back to here or leave a comment if you think there are other posts or blogs that should be going into this…
PING:
TITLE: Asia by blog
BLOG NAME: Simon World
Yesterday’s Asia by blog has proved a resounding success, if the sole email I got in reply is anything to go by. Durian Nation got the idea. Link back to here or leave a comment if you think there are other posts or blogs that should be going into this…
PING:
TITLE: War Averted
BLOG NAME: The Gweilo Diaries
Thanks to the timely deployment of five warships, two aircraft, five rubber dinghies and 15 commandos, the South Korean navy managed to thwart a invasion of its sacred territory by. . . . North Korean special forces? Er, not exactly….
PING:
TITLE: It’s My Rock, and You Can’t Have It
BLOG NAME: Barry Talks!
South Korean lawmakers seem far too concerned about a lonely uninhabited rock, and are ready to go to war with Japan over it, it seems.
PING:
TITLE: Time for some Corean spanking
BLOG NAME: Blog of the Pythi Master
Here’s something I’ve never tried yet: blogging a comment I made on someone else’s blog. A few blokes, including the Marmot himself, were making a mockery out of the Corean government’s reaction to a recent attempt by a right-wing Japanese…
PING:
TITLE: Time for some Corean spanking
BLOG NAME: Blog of the Pythi Master
Here’s something I’ve never tried yet: blogging a comment I made on someone else’s blog. A few blokes, including the Marmot himself, were making a mockery out of the Corean government’s reaction to a recent attempt by a right-wing Japanese…
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Winds of Change.NET Regional Briefings run on Tuesdays Wednesdays, and sometimes Fridays too. Today’s Regional Briefing focuses on Korea, courtesy of Robert Koehler in Seoul….
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Winds of Change.NET Regional Briefings run on Tuesdays Wednesdays, and sometimes Fridays too. Today’s Regional Briefing focuses on Korea, courtesy of Robert Koehler in Seoul….
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today’s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today’s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today’s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today’s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion
[...] on Japans Tsushima Island (which they also claim as Korean territory) following the Great Dokdo Invasion that Wasn [...]