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	<title>Comments on: China &#8212; another Uri Party paradox</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3310</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3310</guid>
		<description>"I am less than convinced that China wants NK to stay there forever. NK is now an embarrassment to the Chinese gov."

The way I see it is...this is the case only because of more interaction/pressure with/from Western countries, namely the U.S.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I am less than convinced that China wants NK to stay there forever. NK is now an embarrassment to the Chinese gov.&#8221;</p>
<p>The way I see it is&#8230;this is the case only because of more interaction/pressure with/from Western countries, namely the U.S.</p>
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		<title>By: Deflet</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3309</link>
		<dc:creator>Deflet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3309</guid>
		<description>To WJK,

I am less than convinced that China wants NK to stay there forever. NK is now an embarrassment to the Chinese gov. What China wants more than anything else is stability - with certain non-negotiable issues. Just look at all the decisions made by the Chinese gov recently.

And China wants to surpass Korea economically? That IS going to happen, regardless of events on the peninsula.

While a re-unified (and thus stronger in the longer term) Korea would be more of a challenge to the Chinese gov politically and economically, maybe they would be supportive of the idea if it got rid of that embarrassing guy in the jumpsuit and the starving millions.

Chinese troops in Korea, dying in horerndous numbers, etc? Hey, ever heard of the Cold War? There were reasons for these things.

"Irresponsible industrialization" by China? Well, they have joined the club. Show me a country with "responsible" industrialization. Oh, and what happened to the Kyoto treaty? Who torpedoed that, hmmm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To WJK,</p>
<p>I am less than convinced that China wants NK to stay there forever. NK is now an embarrassment to the Chinese gov. What China wants more than anything else is stability - with certain non-negotiable issues. Just look at all the decisions made by the Chinese gov recently.</p>
<p>And China wants to surpass Korea economically? That IS going to happen, regardless of events on the peninsula.</p>
<p>While a re-unified (and thus stronger in the longer term) Korea would be more of a challenge to the Chinese gov politically and economically, maybe they would be supportive of the idea if it got rid of that embarrassing guy in the jumpsuit and the starving millions.</p>
<p>Chinese troops in Korea, dying in horerndous numbers, etc? Hey, ever heard of the Cold War? There were reasons for these things.</p>
<p>&#8220;Irresponsible industrialization&#8221; by China? Well, they have joined the club. Show me a country with &#8220;responsible&#8221; industrialization. Oh, and what happened to the Kyoto treaty? Who torpedoed that, hmmm?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3308</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3308</guid>
		<description>and what happenned when North Korea tried to open up a free trade zone with a Chinese business man in charge?

Oh, my.

Very interestingly, the Chinese government jailed that business man on charges of corruption and accepting bribes.

The classic political BS criminal charge that destroy anyone who has crossed the interests of the state.  Corruption and bribery.

LOL.

Not only does China want North Korea to stay there forever, but it also wants North Korea to stay poor.

Fools, fools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and what happenned when North Korea tried to open up a free trade zone with a Chinese business man in charge?</p>
<p>Oh, my.</p>
<p>Very interestingly, the Chinese government jailed that business man on charges of corruption and accepting bribes.</p>
<p>The classic political BS criminal charge that destroy anyone who has crossed the interests of the state.  Corruption and bribery.</p>
<p>LOL.</p>
<p>Not only does China want North Korea to stay there forever, but it also wants North Korea to stay poor.</p>
<p>Fools, fools.</p>
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		<title>By: WJK</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3307</link>
		<dc:creator>WJK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3307</guid>
		<description>I am Korean, but I think Koreans are dumb.  Always looking for a master nation.

The Chinese, the Japanese, or the Americans.  If I was in charge, I would always, always choose the Americans.

Uri's people should dig up their ancestors and ask just how much they used to pay the Chinese kingdoms for tributary funds in the past.

To my understanding, Korean kingdoms shoveled rice and other goods to China even if their own people were starving to death. 

Koreans are enjoying the best living standards and the most rapid pace of economic development under American influence.  It's just that simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am Korean, but I think Koreans are dumb.  Always looking for a master nation.</p>
<p>The Chinese, the Japanese, or the Americans.  If I was in charge, I would always, always choose the Americans.</p>
<p>Uri&#8217;s people should dig up their ancestors and ask just how much they used to pay the Chinese kingdoms for tributary funds in the past.</p>
<p>To my understanding, Korean kingdoms shoveled rice and other goods to China even if their own people were starving to death. </p>
<p>Koreans are enjoying the best living standards and the most rapid pace of economic development under American influence.  It&#8217;s just that simple.</p>
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		<title>By: WJK</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3306</link>
		<dc:creator>WJK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3306</guid>
		<description>In 1991, there was no "Hwang-Sa" in Seoul.  That disgusting yellow dirt wind from China.  

This is a result of irresponsible industrialization by the Chinese.

Take a deep breath, Uri party members.

And WAKE UP!

It's not in China's interest to see a strong Korea nor a united Korea.

Meaning, China wants North Korea to stay there and China wants to pass South Korea in terms of economics.

Enjoy the bolts and pieces of metal inside your fish and crabs.

And the tofu made of unhatched goose eggs.

It's quite simple.  Kim Il Sung fled to China for help, and the Chinese kept North Korea alive with an infusion of low tech infantry men who died in horrendous numbers.

There is that ridiculous theory that when China becomes strong and more prosperous or as rich as the US, Korea will naturally be rich as a middle man.  I don't see that.

Especially if Korea is divided and railways from China don't connect to Pusan.

And guess what?  China wants North Korea to stay there forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1991, there was no &#8220;Hwang-Sa&#8221; in Seoul.  That disgusting yellow dirt wind from China.  </p>
<p>This is a result of irresponsible industrialization by the Chinese.</p>
<p>Take a deep breath, Uri party members.</p>
<p>And WAKE UP!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not in China&#8217;s interest to see a strong Korea nor a united Korea.</p>
<p>Meaning, China wants North Korea to stay there and China wants to pass South Korea in terms of economics.</p>
<p>Enjoy the bolts and pieces of metal inside your fish and crabs.</p>
<p>And the tofu made of unhatched goose eggs.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite simple.  Kim Il Sung fled to China for help, and the Chinese kept North Korea alive with an infusion of low tech infantry men who died in horrendous numbers.</p>
<p>There is that ridiculous theory that when China becomes strong and more prosperous or as rich as the US, Korea will naturally be rich as a middle man.  I don&#8217;t see that.</p>
<p>Especially if Korea is divided and railways from China don&#8217;t connect to Pusan.</p>
<p>And guess what?  China wants North Korea to stay there forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Deflet</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3305</link>
		<dc:creator>Deflet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 18:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3305</guid>
		<description>Hurrah for Sato. I agree on the complexities of China. I just want to make sure that the "reasonable" decision of June 4th was reasonable only for the party hierarchy, not for the people who got shot. While China has gone well since then, we have to remember that the events of 1989 are unacceptable, regardless of any resulting stability. But the Chinese gov do seem to have got what they wanted with no long-lasting ill effects.

No direct elections in Hong Kong (one of the "this" links)? Well, the British did run it (and run it very well) for a long time without elections, and then Patten throws a cat amongst the pigeons just as the Brits are getting out. Even some Brit civil servants thought that was a bad idea. And people vote in Singapore and I am less than convinced that that means anything.

I expect that Uri saying nice things about China is just another way of saying bad things about the US. It is probably more of an anti-US thing than a pro-China thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hurrah for Sato. I agree on the complexities of China. I just want to make sure that the &#8220;reasonable&#8221; decision of June 4th was reasonable only for the party hierarchy, not for the people who got shot. While China has gone well since then, we have to remember that the events of 1989 are unacceptable, regardless of any resulting stability. But the Chinese gov do seem to have got what they wanted with no long-lasting ill effects.</p>
<p>No direct elections in Hong Kong (one of the &#8220;this&#8221; links)? Well, the British did run it (and run it very well) for a long time without elections, and then Patten throws a cat amongst the pigeons just as the Brits are getting out. Even some Brit civil servants thought that was a bad idea. And people vote in Singapore and I am less than convinced that that means anything.</p>
<p>I expect that Uri saying nice things about China is just another way of saying bad things about the US. It is probably more of an anti-US thing than a pro-China thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Sato</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3304</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Sato</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3304</guid>
		<description>Some of your statements seem self-contradictory if you don't mind my pointing this out.  First, it is not strictly true that conservatives are as ethically flexible when faced with geostrategic realities like Henry Kissinger's choices in the past.  Kissinger is regarded by many as guilty of criminal decisions like in the bombing of Cambodia which led to the eventual genocide of the Khmer Rouge.  And don't raise the shit about communist atrocities because it is more complex then that.   Given the success of the PRC economically since Tiananmen it is equally possible to say that this was a reasonable decision by the party hierarchy.  An indication of this is the lead story in the April 26, 2004 Financial Times with the heading "Washington in call for close G7 links with China."  Why would the Uri party want to continue with the arms-length policy vis a vis China when Washington is seeking to draw closer to same with its new found (flexible?) stance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of your statements seem self-contradictory if you don&#8217;t mind my pointing this out.  First, it is not strictly true that conservatives are as ethically flexible when faced with geostrategic realities like Henry Kissinger&#8217;s choices in the past.  Kissinger is regarded by many as guilty of criminal decisions like in the bombing of Cambodia which led to the eventual genocide of the Khmer Rouge.  And don&#8217;t raise the shit about communist atrocities because it is more complex then that.   Given the success of the PRC economically since Tiananmen it is equally possible to say that this was a reasonable decision by the party hierarchy.  An indication of this is the lead story in the April 26, 2004 Financial Times with the heading &#8220;Washington in call for close G7 links with China.&#8221;  Why would the Uri party want to continue with the arms-length policy vis a vis China when Washington is seeking to draw closer to same with its new found (flexible?) stance.</p>
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		<title>By: Zhang Fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3303</link>
		<dc:creator>Zhang Fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3303</guid>
		<description>passerby: China, being kicked out from Korea 109 years ago has not managed to create the same problems.

Actually, the Chinese killed hundreds of thousands of Koreans while acting to prevent the reunification of Korea. For some reason, South Koreans can't seem to connect the dots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>passerby: China, being kicked out from Korea 109 years ago has not managed to create the same problems.</p>
<p>Actually, the Chinese killed hundreds of thousands of Koreans while acting to prevent the reunification of Korea. For some reason, South Koreans can&#8217;t seem to connect the dots.</p>
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		<title>By: Zhang Fei</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3302</link>
		<dc:creator>Zhang Fei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3302</guid>
		<description>T: I know Noh forgot, when he told the Chinese that the Chinese politician he most admired was Mao Tse-tung.

He could have said Deng Xiaoping, and none of the Chinese would have given him a hard time. But he had to say Moose Dung. I suspect Noh was speaking from the heart. Will the Korean peninsula be reunified under the Dear Leader in Noh's lifetime?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T: I know Noh forgot, when he told the Chinese that the Chinese politician he most admired was Mao Tse-tung.</p>
<p>He could have said Deng Xiaoping, and none of the Chinese would have given him a hard time. But he had to say Moose Dung. I suspect Noh was speaking from the heart. Will the Korean peninsula be reunified under the Dear Leader in Noh&#8217;s lifetime?</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/29/china-another-uri-party-paradox/#comment-3301</link>
		<dc:creator>T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=755#comment-3301</guid>
		<description>Have the Uri Party also forgotten that the Chinese killed many tens of thousands of their fellow South Koreans in an attempt to communize the peninsula?  

I know Noh forgot, when he told the Chinese that the Chinese politician he most admired was Mao Tse-tung.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have the Uri Party also forgotten that the Chinese killed many tens of thousands of their fellow South Koreans in an attempt to communize the peninsula?  </p>
<p>I know Noh forgot, when he told the Chinese that the Chinese politician he most admired was Mao Tse-tung.</p>
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