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	<title>Comments on: White House Godfather made Hu Jintao an offer he couldn&#8217;t refuse?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2</generator>
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		<title>By: Paul R</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3212</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3212</guid>
		<description>Hey guys &#38; gals, this from USA Today (online) may shed a little light on whether Cheney was successful (skip the background you already know!):

"North Korea's state-run news agency on Thursday confirmed that Kim made a secretive trip to China on Monday through Wednesday, but carried no comments on the reported explosion. 

China, which also confirmed Kim's visit, is North Korea's last major ally, and the countries' ruling communist parties boast of close ties. But while China's experiments with capitalism have transformed it into an economic dynamo, North Korea suffers chronic food shortages and depends on its larger neighbor for aid. 

Kim met with President Hu Jintao and other Chinese leaders and agreed to "push ahead" with a peaceful resolution to the standoff over its nuclear weapons programs, the North's official KCNA news agency and central television network reported earlier Thursday. 

The broadcast added that Kim said his government "will continue to be patient and flexible and actively participate in the process of six-nation talks and contribute to making progress at the talks." 

The comments were likely to be encouraging to the United States and other countries, who want China to use its leverage as North Korea's leading supplier of food and energy aid to get the country to disarm."
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys &amp; gals, this from USA Today (online) may shed a little light on whether Cheney was successful (skip the background you already know!):</p>
<p>&#8220;North Korea&#8217;s state-run news agency on Thursday confirmed that Kim made a secretive trip to China on Monday through Wednesday, but carried no comments on the reported explosion. </p>
<p>China, which also confirmed Kim&#8217;s visit, is North Korea&#8217;s last major ally, and the countries&#8217; ruling communist parties boast of close ties. But while China&#8217;s experiments with capitalism have transformed it into an economic dynamo, North Korea suffers chronic food shortages and depends on its larger neighbor for aid. </p>
<p>Kim met with President Hu Jintao and other Chinese leaders and agreed to &#8220;push ahead&#8221; with a peaceful resolution to the standoff over its nuclear weapons programs, the North&#8217;s official KCNA news agency and central television network reported earlier Thursday. </p>
<p>The broadcast added that Kim said his government &#8220;will continue to be patient and flexible and actively participate in the process of six-nation talks and contribute to making progress at the talks.&#8221; </p>
<p>The comments were likely to be encouraging to the United States and other countries, who want China to use its leverage as North Korea&#8217;s leading supplier of food and energy aid to get the country to disarm.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3211</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3211</guid>
		<description>If the Chinese had control over what N.Korea does with its nukes, N.Korea wouldn't have nukes in the first place.

I am just speechless at the sheer inanity of that statement. China has every interest in keeping us off balance in the region. If they can get us to expend resources providing protection money to NK to not develop nukes, like that idiotic Madeleine Halfbright and the Clinton administration would have us do, that's a gift from heaven. Like beer at the Delta house, it don't cost nothing.

China's going to let NK's leash out for as long as it benefits them to do so. Cheney's just informed them that they better reel in their pooch before he let's the big dogs loose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Chinese had control over what N.Korea does with its nukes, N.Korea wouldn&#8217;t have nukes in the first place.</p>
<p>I am just speechless at the sheer inanity of that statement. China has every interest in keeping us off balance in the region. If they can get us to expend resources providing protection money to NK to not develop nukes, like that idiotic Madeleine Halfbright and the Clinton administration would have us do, that&#8217;s a gift from heaven. Like beer at the Delta house, it don&#8217;t cost nothing.</p>
<p>China&#8217;s going to let NK&#8217;s leash out for as long as it benefits them to do so. Cheney&#8217;s just informed them that they better reel in their pooch before he let&#8217;s the big dogs loose.</p>
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		<title>By: Ventilator</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3210</link>
		<dc:creator>Ventilator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3210</guid>
		<description>Paul H.,

that's why Bush was an envoy rather than ambassador (ambassador implies diplomatic recognition, but envoy could be sent anywhere). He was most certainly in Beijing in the early 1970s, either during Nixon's or Ford's administration. Kissinger makes no mention of Bush in his book Diplomacy, but then Kissinger is not famous for giving credit to others. I wonder if anybody has a better source on what Bush Sr. did in Beijing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul H.,</p>
<p>that&#8217;s why Bush was an envoy rather than ambassador (ambassador implies diplomatic recognition, but envoy could be sent anywhere). He was most certainly in Beijing in the early 1970s, either during Nixon&#8217;s or Ford&#8217;s administration. Kissinger makes no mention of Bush in his book Diplomacy, but then Kissinger is not famous for giving credit to others. I wonder if anybody has a better source on what Bush Sr. did in Beijing?</p>
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		<title>By: John Tillinghast</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3209</link>
		<dc:creator>John Tillinghast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3209</guid>
		<description>Cliff, what do you want us to do? Is there a better way of preventing nuclearization of North Korea?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cliff, what do you want us to do? Is there a better way of preventing nuclearization of North Korea?</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Styles</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3208</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Styles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3208</guid>
		<description>The obverse of Cheney's comment is:  if you (China) do something about North Korean nukes, we will help prevent Taiwan and Japan from going nuclear.  

That's a deal China loves.

Laying down the law...yeah, right.  Chinese patience and gamesmanship have paid off again.

And when the North Koreans do eventually export a nuke?  "oh, so sorry, we have little control over those lunatics".  We can splutter about our 'deal' in a pile of radioactive ash...

Relying on the Chinese to take care of the North Korean nuclear program is a fool's policy.

And, by the way, of what real interest is it to us to have China the only nuclear power in that region???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The obverse of Cheney&#8217;s comment is:  if you (China) do something about North Korean nukes, we will help prevent Taiwan and Japan from going nuclear.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a deal China loves.</p>
<p>Laying down the law&#8230;yeah, right.  Chinese patience and gamesmanship have paid off again.</p>
<p>And when the North Koreans do eventually export a nuke?  &#8220;oh, so sorry, we have little control over those lunatics&#8221;.  We can splutter about our &#8216;deal&#8217; in a pile of radioactive ash&#8230;</p>
<p>Relying on the Chinese to take care of the North Korean nuclear program is a fool&#8217;s policy.</p>
<p>And, by the way, of what real interest is it to us to have China the only nuclear power in that region???</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3207</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:26:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3207</guid>
		<description>Questions like this one, Ventilator old chap, make me realize how old I am.  

Unless my memory circuits are shorting, there would have been no US embassy in Peking during the Nixon visit, as we didn't have diplomatic relations then! That's why the visit was such a surprise when Nixon announced it on TV (1972? --I happened to watch that telecast, and can still remember how astonished I was).   

I'm pretty sure Bush Sr was ambassador to China during the Ford administration? (Hmmm, maybe that was when he was CIA director.  I don't think he served long as either CIA director or ambassador to China -- maybe a year in each position).   

I don't remember now what Bush Sr. did during the Carter administration -- seems that since he was a prominent Repub he wouldn't have been ambassador or CIA director then but who knows.  Maybe a Bush Sr. Presidential library web site would have a timeline. 

Old joke:  President Nixon comes on TV and says "I have some good news and some bad news.  The good news is that our planes have stopped bombing Hanoi.  The bad news is that they are on their way to Peking."  

Puzzlingly unfunny to anyone under 45 or so, unless they know about the "old" Nixon. "Tricky Dick" was his standard derogatory nickname -- the first post above is the first time I've heard it applied to Dick Cheney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Questions like this one, Ventilator old chap, make me realize how old I am.  </p>
<p>Unless my memory circuits are shorting, there would have been no US embassy in Peking during the Nixon visit, as we didn&#8217;t have diplomatic relations then! That&#8217;s why the visit was such a surprise when Nixon announced it on TV (1972? &#8211;I happened to watch that telecast, and can still remember how astonished I was).   </p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure Bush Sr was ambassador to China during the Ford administration? (Hmmm, maybe that was when he was CIA director.  I don&#8217;t think he served long as either CIA director or ambassador to China &#8212; maybe a year in each position).   </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember now what Bush Sr. did during the Carter administration &#8212; seems that since he was a prominent Repub he wouldn&#8217;t have been ambassador or CIA director then but who knows.  Maybe a Bush Sr. Presidential library web site would have a timeline. </p>
<p>Old joke:  President Nixon comes on TV and says &#8220;I have some good news and some bad news.  The good news is that our planes have stopped bombing Hanoi.  The bad news is that they are on their way to Peking.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Puzzlingly unfunny to anyone under 45 or so, unless they know about the &#8220;old&#8221; Nixon. &#8220;Tricky Dick&#8221; was his standard derogatory nickname &#8212; the first post above is the first time I&#8217;ve heard it applied to Dick Cheney.</p>
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		<title>By: Ventilator</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3206</link>
		<dc:creator>Ventilator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3206</guid>
		<description>Re: Understanding between Bush administration and CCP

Wasn't George Bush Sr. the US ambassador (actually, envoy) to China right around the time of the Nixon visit? That would have been an educational experience, for sure. He may be passing tips to his son now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Understanding between Bush administration and CCP</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t George Bush Sr. the US ambassador (actually, envoy) to China right around the time of the Nixon visit? That would have been an educational experience, for sure. He may be passing tips to his son now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3205</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3205</guid>
		<description>I don't know enough about Jo to really comment, although I've heard he's rather virulently anti-communist but a stand-up guy.  Apparently, he's got connections, so it's not impossible that what he said took place.  Certainly, if the Bush administration were to deliver such a message, Cheney would seem like the logical fellow to convey it.  Geopolitically, it makes sense, and the Chinese had to have been figuring something like that was possible -- I've said it a gazzilion times before, Great Powers are responsible for making sure their allies don't rock the boat.  The U.S. cracked down on South Korea when it tried to build nukes in the 70s, it apparently did the same with Taiwan and its whole security arrangement with Japan seems designed to make sure Tokyo doesn't become a "normal country" (Japanese usage) in terms of its security policy.  If China wants to play in the Big Leagues -- and everything I hear coming out of Beijing suggests that it does -- it needs to use its influence to ensure that its clients do not dangerously harm the interests of other Great Powers.  A failure to do so might result in other Great Powers (in this case, the U.S.) taking retaliatory actions -- this is simply basic geopolitics.  If China maintains that it lacks the ability to influence North Korean behaviour while expecting the U.S. to use its influence to curb the behavior of its allies, Beijing could no longer expect -- realistically speaking -- Washington to treat it as an "equal," and its national prestige would dimish accordingly.  Besides, if the North Koreans go nuclear, the "point" of the whole non-proliferation regime in East Asia comes into question; that's something Hu Jintao didn't have to hear from Cheney to understand.

Interestingly enough, the point you make about the Bush administration and Beijing speaking the same language is a good one -- if you've ever taken a look at Chinese Foreign Ministry and Defense White Papers, they are remarkably realistic (in their appraisals of Chinese national interests).  They are fully aware of the way national power influences relations between states.  So yes, despite the fact that the U.S. does things they do not always like, at least there's an understanding between the two as to how things work.  Coincidentally, the Bush administration seems to enjoy the same sort of relationship with Russia's rather hard-nosed President Putin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know enough about Jo to really comment, although I&#8217;ve heard he&#8217;s rather virulently anti-communist but a stand-up guy.  Apparently, he&#8217;s got connections, so it&#8217;s not impossible that what he said took place.  Certainly, if the Bush administration were to deliver such a message, Cheney would seem like the logical fellow to convey it.  Geopolitically, it makes sense, and the Chinese had to have been figuring something like that was possible &#8212; I&#8217;ve said it a gazzilion times before, Great Powers are responsible for making sure their allies don&#8217;t rock the boat.  The U.S. cracked down on South Korea when it tried to build nukes in the 70s, it apparently did the same with Taiwan and its whole security arrangement with Japan seems designed to make sure Tokyo doesn&#8217;t become a &#8220;normal country&#8221; (Japanese usage) in terms of its security policy.  If China wants to play in the Big Leagues &#8212; and everything I hear coming out of Beijing suggests that it does &#8212; it needs to use its influence to ensure that its clients do not dangerously harm the interests of other Great Powers.  A failure to do so might result in other Great Powers (in this case, the U.S.) taking retaliatory actions &#8212; this is simply basic geopolitics.  If China maintains that it lacks the ability to influence North Korean behaviour while expecting the U.S. to use its influence to curb the behavior of its allies, Beijing could no longer expect &#8212; realistically speaking &#8212; Washington to treat it as an &#8220;equal,&#8221; and its national prestige would dimish accordingly.  Besides, if the North Koreans go nuclear, the &#8220;point&#8221; of the whole non-proliferation regime in East Asia comes into question; that&#8217;s something Hu Jintao didn&#8217;t have to hear from Cheney to understand.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, the point you make about the Bush administration and Beijing speaking the same language is a good one &#8212; if you&#8217;ve ever taken a look at Chinese Foreign Ministry and Defense White Papers, they are remarkably realistic (in their appraisals of Chinese national interests).  They are fully aware of the way national power influences relations between states.  So yes, despite the fact that the U.S. does things they do not always like, at least there&#8217;s an understanding between the two as to how things work.  Coincidentally, the Bush administration seems to enjoy the same sort of relationship with Russia&#8217;s rather hard-nosed President Putin.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3204</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3204</guid>
		<description>Sure would be nice if true.  Perhaps Cheney, as somebody with no future political ambitions, is capable of doing this -- if anyone in the US govt is.  

I would have thought that between:
--State Dept types who argue for the status quo no matter what;
--horrified US lefties who see the US as responsible for all the world's ills; and 
--US businesses who are worried about their Asian investments; 
that we would just go on "expressing grave concern", as the NorKs keep building nukes, and as our intelligence services have to start figuring out whether or not they're exporting fissile material to anyone with cash.  

And of course any announcement of such a discovery (of NK exports of fissile material) will now be subject to political attack, by the Democrats at home and anti-Americans abroad, after the WMD debacle.  

Tell me M (or anyone else)--do you think if ROK intelligence services discovered evidence of NorK export of fissile material -- would they tell the CIA?  For my part, I sure hope we're not dependent on this.  

With the crescendo of conventional car/truck/suicide bombings (and attempted ones) lately, in Europe and the Mideast, I figure it's only a matter of time until we have a "radiological" one.  (Did you notice the story a few days ago about the possible "chemical" bombing in Amman, supposedly averted by the Jordanians? I only know about it from the internet; it got almost no play on US cable TV news that I saw.) 

A "plutonium" one (if it happens) will be particularly nasty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure would be nice if true.  Perhaps Cheney, as somebody with no future political ambitions, is capable of doing this &#8212; if anyone in the US govt is.  </p>
<p>I would have thought that between:<br />
&#8211;State Dept types who argue for the status quo no matter what;<br />
&#8211;horrified US lefties who see the US as responsible for all the world&#8217;s ills; and<br />
&#8211;US businesses who are worried about their Asian investments;<br />
that we would just go on &#8220;expressing grave concern&#8221;, as the NorKs keep building nukes, and as our intelligence services have to start figuring out whether or not they&#8217;re exporting fissile material to anyone with cash.  </p>
<p>And of course any announcement of such a discovery (of NK exports of fissile material) will now be subject to political attack, by the Democrats at home and anti-Americans abroad, after the WMD debacle.  </p>
<p>Tell me M (or anyone else)&#8211;do you think if ROK intelligence services discovered evidence of NorK export of fissile material &#8212; would they tell the CIA?  For my part, I sure hope we&#8217;re not dependent on this.  </p>
<p>With the crescendo of conventional car/truck/suicide bombings (and attempted ones) lately, in Europe and the Mideast, I figure it&#8217;s only a matter of time until we have a &#8220;radiological&#8221; one.  (Did you notice the story a few days ago about the possible &#8220;chemical&#8221; bombing in Amman, supposedly averted by the Jordanians? I only know about it from the internet; it got almost no play on US cable TV news that I saw.) </p>
<p>A &#8220;plutonium&#8221; one (if it happens) will be particularly nasty.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/22/white-house-godfather-made-hu-jintao-an-offer-he-couldnt-refuse/#comment-3203</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2004 07:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=733#comment-3203</guid>
		<description>I've been wondering when the administration would play their ace in the hole. 'Bout time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering when the administration would play their ace in the hole. &#8216;Bout time.</p>
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