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	<title>Comments on: Josh proves, once again, he knows nothing about Korea</title>
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	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Fri,  5 Sep 2008 07:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: stavrosthewonderchicken</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3110</link>
		<dc:creator>stavrosthewonderchicken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3110</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of what Josh has to say, on most of the issues that matter, and to his credit he has gotten things bang-on right about Korea in the past, but I have to agree with Marmot that he's off-base (little Budae-joke there) in the post in question. I was actually going to write up a post saying so a few days back, but got distracted by a shiny thing, and now someone else has done it for me. Nice how that works.

I would add that even if attitudes towards America (or more specifically, The Idiot Prince) weren't part of the text of the thing (as Marmot notes, this election was, in fine Korean style, more about emotion than issues), it certainly was part of the subtext, along with rising distrust and disgust for the Powers That Have Been. But that kind of nuanced argument takes too damn much effort when there's beer in the fridge.

(Also, since I'm here, I've just got to offer my usual 'Glenn Reynolds Can Bite Me' slogan.  A wonderchicken comment here just wouldn't be the same without it, I know.)


PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I'd do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the

PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I'd do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the

PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I'd do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the

PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I'd do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the

PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I'd do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the

PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
UP

PING:
TITLE: Korea Blogger's Buffet (linkfest)
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹
UP

PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today's Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion

PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today's Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion

PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today's Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion

PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
Today's Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of what Josh has to say, on most of the issues that matter, and to his credit he has gotten things bang-on right about Korea in the past, but I have to agree with Marmot that he&#8217;s off-base (little Budae-joke there) in the post in question. I was actually going to write up a post saying so a few days back, but got distracted by a shiny thing, and now someone else has done it for me. Nice how that works.</p>
<p>I would add that even if attitudes towards America (or more specifically, The Idiot Prince) weren&#8217;t part of the text of the thing (as Marmot notes, this election was, in fine Korean style, more about emotion than issues), it certainly was part of the subtext, along with rising distrust and disgust for the Powers That Have Been. But that kind of nuanced argument takes too damn much effort when there&#8217;s beer in the fridge.</p>
<p>(Also, since I&#8217;m here, I&#8217;ve just got to offer my usual &#8216;Glenn Reynolds Can Bite Me&#8217; slogan.  A wonderchicken comment here just wouldn&#8217;t be the same without it, I know.)</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I&#8217;d do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I&#8217;d do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I&#8217;d do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I&#8217;d do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
It took quite a while last night to go through the ever expanding blogroll, so I thought I&#8217;d do a buffet spread of the posts that highlighted the end of last week. As expected, The Marmot, the Yangban and the</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
UP</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Korea Blogger&#8217;s Buffet (linkfest)<br />
BLOG NAME: Budaechigae ?쨋??흸??째흸?째흹<br />
UP</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11<br />
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET<br />
Today&#8217;s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11<br />
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET<br />
Today&#8217;s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11<br />
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET<br />
Today&#8217;s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 2004-05-11<br />
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET<br />
Today&#8217;s Headings Include: The DPRK (North Korea); The ROK (South Korea, incl. elections coverage); US-ROK Issues (incl. Iraq); and random Korea stuff, from photos to sports to religion</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry Bevers</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3109</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry Bevers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2004 02:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3109</guid>
		<description>Marmot,

Yes, its role in the impeachment is probably the main reason MDP went from 59 seats in the old Assembly to only 9 in the new, but the MDP supporters who switched to the Uri Party were able to do so without sacrificing their basic beliefs, which are appeasement with North Korea and more independence from the United States. As you know, the Uri and the MDP started out as one party supporting Roh. 

If impeachment were really the fundamental issue, then why was the GNP not also decimated? The GNP got 121 seats in the new Assembly, a lost of only 16 seats. 

The Uri party supports Roh, who wants appeasement with North Korea and more independence from the US. If the Uri party is less opposed to US initiatives than the MDP, it is mainly because Roh has had to adjust his stance on those initiatives after coming face-to-face with the realities of being president of a country with a high degree of dependence on the United States. 

The Uri party supports sending troops to Iraq, but they consider it a "necessary evil." Some of the major players in the party are even openly opposed to it. 

This election was mainly about supporters of one left-leaning party switching to another left-leaning party. There was most likely some in the center who switched to Uri because of the impeachment, but I think the results show that politics in Korea is still all about right and left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marmot,</p>
<p>Yes, its role in the impeachment is probably the main reason MDP went from 59 seats in the old Assembly to only 9 in the new, but the MDP supporters who switched to the Uri Party were able to do so without sacrificing their basic beliefs, which are appeasement with North Korea and more independence from the United States. As you know, the Uri and the MDP started out as one party supporting Roh. </p>
<p>If impeachment were really the fundamental issue, then why was the GNP not also decimated? The GNP got 121 seats in the new Assembly, a lost of only 16 seats. </p>
<p>The Uri party supports Roh, who wants appeasement with North Korea and more independence from the US. If the Uri party is less opposed to US initiatives than the MDP, it is mainly because Roh has had to adjust his stance on those initiatives after coming face-to-face with the realities of being president of a country with a high degree of dependence on the United States. </p>
<p>The Uri party supports sending troops to Iraq, but they consider it a &#8220;necessary evil.&#8221; Some of the major players in the party are even openly opposed to it. </p>
<p>This election was mainly about supporters of one left-leaning party switching to another left-leaning party. There was most likely some in the center who switched to Uri because of the impeachment, but I think the results show that politics in Korea is still all about right and left.</p>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3108</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3108</guid>
		<description>Adam -- Thanks for the correction.  And thanks for the link, too.  Nice to know at least one person in China can read a Typepad site.

Gerry -- I'm sorry, but I gotta disaggree with you here.  The "real issues" were not North Korea and the U.S.-R.O.K. relationship.  There were no "real issues" in this election, with the exception of the impeachment.  If U.S. policy was the central issue, why was the MDP -- which is even more opposed to U.S. policy initiatives than Uri -- crushed, even in the Jeolla provinces (Christ, Uri swept Gwangju)?  I'm not characterizing the Uri Party as pro-Bush (or even pro-American). because clearly it is not.  But given the events of the last couple of months, in which we've seen support levels for the Uri Party skyrocket since the impeachment (and support for the MDP -- which spearheaded the impeachment -- utterly collapse, despite its anti-American posture), I don't see how it's possible to see this election as a referrendum on the U.S.-R.O.K. relationship.  I don't even think it was a referrendum on Roh, even though I'm sure Cheong Wa Dae would like to think it was.  If anything, this was a referrendum on parliamentary misbehavior, and that's it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam &#8212; Thanks for the correction.  And thanks for the link, too.  Nice to know at least one person in China can read a Typepad site.</p>
<p>Gerry &#8212; I&#8217;m sorry, but I gotta disaggree with you here.  The &#8220;real issues&#8221; were not North Korea and the U.S.-R.O.K. relationship.  There were no &#8220;real issues&#8221; in this election, with the exception of the impeachment.  If U.S. policy was the central issue, why was the MDP &#8212; which is even more opposed to U.S. policy initiatives than Uri &#8212; crushed, even in the Jeolla provinces (Christ, Uri swept Gwangju)?  I&#8217;m not characterizing the Uri Party as pro-Bush (or even pro-American). because clearly it is not.  But given the events of the last couple of months, in which we&#8217;ve seen support levels for the Uri Party skyrocket since the impeachment (and support for the MDP &#8212; which spearheaded the impeachment &#8212; utterly collapse, despite its anti-American posture), I don&#8217;t see how it&#8217;s possible to see this election as a referrendum on the U.S.-R.O.K. relationship.  I don&#8217;t even think it was a referrendum on Roh, even though I&#8217;m sure Cheong Wa Dae would like to think it was.  If anything, this was a referrendum on parliamentary misbehavior, and that&#8217;s it.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3107</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3107</guid>
		<description>The Chinese for "Middle Kingdom mentality" (in simplified characters) would be ?쨍짯???챈??????

Thanks for the link and pointing out the great comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Chinese for &#8220;Middle Kingdom mentality&#8221; (in simplified characters) would be ?쨍짯???챈??????</p>
<p>Thanks for the link and pointing out the great comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3106</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3106</guid>
		<description>I disagree with the expression of sentiment here that Josh is just a liberal whiner. He's an icon of the liberal establishment, and for good reason. Glenn Reynolds voted him as "Best Blog" not so long ago.

Anyway, it really is staggering how wrong Josh could have been on this issue. I chalk it up to what happens when you specialize. He's a beltway insider, and I read him like a junkie for it, and no doubt the NYT or whoever else was talking about the Korean elections always do so with a "beltway context." It's just not always true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the expression of sentiment here that Josh is just a liberal whiner. He&#8217;s an icon of the liberal establishment, and for good reason. Glenn Reynolds voted him as &#8220;Best Blog&#8221; not so long ago.</p>
<p>Anyway, it really is staggering how wrong Josh could have been on this issue. I chalk it up to what happens when you specialize. He&#8217;s a beltway insider, and I read him like a junkie for it, and no doubt the NYT or whoever else was talking about the Korean elections always do so with a &#8220;beltway context.&#8221; It&#8217;s just not always true.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry Bevers</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3105</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry Bevers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3105</guid>
		<description>I do not see a problem with Josh's analysis of Korea's National Assembly elections. I disagree with his reasons for making the analysis, but I agree with the analysis.

Yes, the surface issues during the Korean elections were slush funds and the impeachment, but the real issues were Korea's relationships with the United States and North Korea. 

The "opposition to the policies of the Bush administration" did not have to be mentioned in this election because they were already mentioned in the last. Almost every Korean knows which party supports and which party opposes US policies, especially US policy on North Korea. 

The Uri party supports President Roh, and Roh was elected president of Korea because of of his promises to stand up to the United States and reconcile with North Korea, not because of his promises to clean up Korean politics. The DLP is not the only anti-US party in Korea.

About half of all Koreans are anti-US, and a majority of Koreans are anti-Bush. Most of those anti-US, anti-Bush Koreans are in the Uri Party. Because Koreans are so anti-Bush, it would have been political suicide for the GNP to make US policy an issue in this election. Likewise, the Uri party did not want to make US policy an issue because of its support for sending Korean troops to Iraq, which seems to conflict with the party's anti-US mindset, but which has already been explained to the Korean public as being a "necessary evil."

Yes, Koreans are tired of slush funds, especially those held by the party they are against, but the dominating factors in Korean politics are left and right. Even regionalism can be broken down into left and right. The right supports the US and the left opposes her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not see a problem with Josh&#8217;s analysis of Korea&#8217;s National Assembly elections. I disagree with his reasons for making the analysis, but I agree with the analysis.</p>
<p>Yes, the surface issues during the Korean elections were slush funds and the impeachment, but the real issues were Korea&#8217;s relationships with the United States and North Korea. </p>
<p>The &#8220;opposition to the policies of the Bush administration&#8221; did not have to be mentioned in this election because they were already mentioned in the last. Almost every Korean knows which party supports and which party opposes US policies, especially US policy on North Korea. </p>
<p>The Uri party supports President Roh, and Roh was elected president of Korea because of of his promises to stand up to the United States and reconcile with North Korea, not because of his promises to clean up Korean politics. The DLP is not the only anti-US party in Korea.</p>
<p>About half of all Koreans are anti-US, and a majority of Koreans are anti-Bush. Most of those anti-US, anti-Bush Koreans are in the Uri Party. Because Koreans are so anti-Bush, it would have been political suicide for the GNP to make US policy an issue in this election. Likewise, the Uri party did not want to make US policy an issue because of its support for sending Korean troops to Iraq, which seems to conflict with the party&#8217;s anti-US mindset, but which has already been explained to the Korean public as being a &#8220;necessary evil.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, Koreans are tired of slush funds, especially those held by the party they are against, but the dominating factors in Korean politics are left and right. Even regionalism can be broken down into left and right. The right supports the US and the left opposes her.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3104</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 16:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3104</guid>
		<description>I'm glad that America wasn't a big issue in this election.  I hope that it continues that way and becomes that way in other countries so we can get on with our life here.  I'm tired of running around the world trying to be everyone's parent.  Let the Koreans take care of themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad that America wasn&#8217;t a big issue in this election.  I hope that it continues that way and becomes that way in other countries so we can get on with our life here.  I&#8217;m tired of running around the world trying to be everyone&#8217;s parent.  Let the Koreans take care of themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Wm</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3103</link>
		<dc:creator>Wm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3103</guid>
		<description>Holy crap, dude. That's a hell of an analysis and remarkably easy to read for dummies/low attention spanners (like me).  Great writing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy crap, dude. That&#8217;s a hell of an analysis and remarkably easy to read for dummies/low attention spanners (like me).  Great writing!</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch H.</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3102</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3102</guid>
		<description>Correction: Marshall is a partisan sock puppet of the establishment left.  He was a Clark man.  If he was a sock puppet of the radical left, he would have been a Dean or Kucinich booster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: Marshall is a partisan sock puppet of the establishment left.  He was a Clark man.  If he was a sock puppet of the radical left, he would have been a Dean or Kucinich booster.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/04/16/josh-proves-once-again-he-knows-nothing-about-korea/#comment-3101</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=715#comment-3101</guid>
		<description>Josh Marshall's entire worldview can be summed up in two words--"Bush bad!"  Therefore, he tries to make every single event that transpires somehow a repudiation of Bad Bush and his evil henchmen.  He is a partisan sock puppet of the radical left, nothing more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh Marshall&#8217;s entire worldview can be summed up in two words&#8211;&#8221;Bush bad!&#8221;  Therefore, he tries to make every single event that transpires somehow a repudiation of Bad Bush and his evil henchmen.  He is a partisan sock puppet of the radical left, nothing more.</p>
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