The Dong-A ran a piece on what they found to be a disturbing Internet trend — Flash animation and cartoons showing Japanese (and Japanese rightists like Prime Minister Koizumi, in particular) getting killed in horrifying and shocking ways. Even the Ministry of Information and Communication has started to take notice, saying that these kinds of materials have become widespread since the March 1st Independence Movement holiday, and the situation has reached such a serious level that it might start taking action. The Dong-A was especially concerned about the effects the graphic material might have on young people, since it’s overwhelmingly teenagers and people in their 20s who view them. The paper worried that it might imprint on the minds of youth an emotional, exclusive nationalism rather than a rational one. Said Dr. Jo Su-cheol of Seoul Nation University Hospital’s department of neuropsychiatry, “It’s clear that Japan in a country about which we can have feelings of hostility and wariness, but we have to know the proper way of expressing those feelings.”
Not that I disagree with the Dong-A’s assessment (I don’t, although I still don’t want the Ministry of Information getting even more involved in the Internet than it already is), but I’m not surprised that it was the paper that said it, being as it was founded by Kim Seong-su — one of the founding fathers of Korean capitalism, founder of Korea University, vice-president of the Republic of Korea… and big-time Japanese collaborator. Just thought I’d point that out, to be fair.
25 Comments
Marmot,
Shame on you for repeating Communist propaganda.
I will not go into great lenngth but before the Japanese arrived in Korea, there was no finance or company system whatsoever, nor were there there schools. Literacy was reserved for the Yangban.
Thus, if any Korea founded any enterprise between 1905-1945, the was by definition a collaborator. Of course the Norks have been repeating this for years as an excuse to nationalise all property.
The seeds of the Korean economic miracle, like it or not, were planted during the Japanese occupation. Do you, Marmot, suggest that any venture started between 1905-1945 be nationalised the founders be tossed in jail? Is the revenge more important than the economic fallout?
There is, in fact, a large group that wants just this: Nosamo.
Did I say I want to nationalize their property and throw them in jail? I was simply pointing out that Kim Seong-su was a collaborator, as were the founders of Samsung and Hyundai (among others). I’m not passing judgement on them — it can be reasonably argued that they did what they had to do to survive during difficult times, and Korea’s better off as a result of their efforts. But that doesn’t take away from the very real historical fact that they were collaborators, now does it?
Twenty years from now, I wonder if every North Korean will be considered a “collaborator” in the Dear/Great Leaders regime.
And last time I checked, more Koreans have died as a result of that regime’s decisions (Korean War/man-made famine) than ever dies at the hands of the Japanese.
Yet here we have a generation of crazed spoiled nationalistic brats who vilify a peace-loving democratic neighbor while never uttering a word of criticism at Pyongyang.
Unreal.
Twenty years from now, I wonder if every North Korean will be considered a “collaborator” in the Dear/Great Leaders regime.
I wonder if anyone will be considered a collaborator with the Korean Workers Party, especially if the hypocritical South Korean left has any say in the matter.
Marmot: “I’m not passing judgement on them — it can be reasonably argued that they did what they had to do to survive during difficult times, and Korea’s better off as a result of their efforts.”
I think it can also “be reasonably argued” that the “difficult times” were more difficult to “survive” in Chosun Korea than in colonial Korea. At the end of Chosun Korea, the average Korean “survived” for only 24 years, which was one of the lowest survival rates in the world. (The world average was about 37 years, I think, while the US average was in the high 40s.) By the end of the colonial period, Koreans were living almost twice as long as their fathers and grandfathers did.
If Koreans value health and education, then the Japanese and their Korean collaborators should be praised rather than scorned.
The population also doubled under the Japanese occupation.
“The paper worried that it might imprint on the minds of youth an emotional, exclusive nationalism rather than a rational one.”
Nothing like starting off the day with a good laugh…
Too late, fellas… too late.
Brian
All these comments ignore the fact that the Chosun leaders at the time realized they had problems and had begun to modernize the Korean economy on their own.
Japan’s imperialistic impulses ended that though. Who knows what they might have accomplished if the “benevolent” Japanese hadn’t come to their rescue.
“But apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”
While were on the topic of collaboration, here’s food for thought. By 1930, fifty percent of the colonial police force was Korean. Fourty percent of the colonial government was Korean. Collaborators aren’t limited to few businessmen or officials, but rather include a huge segment of the population (a majority?).
And another thing, why was there no organized resistance to Japanese rule after 1919? For 25 years, nothing, nada.
I absolutely hate the collaborator issue - as some might have noticed.
“I’m not passing judgement on them — it can be reasonably argued that they did what they had to do to survive during difficult times, and Korea’s better off as a result of their efforts.”
This is perfectly fine, really, I can understand how Marmot used it, but the word “collaborator” is a politically and emotionally charged word in common usage. It is not neutral.
I want to keep repeating over and over again like a broken record (if anybody remembers scratched albumns any more) —-
“Does pro-Japanese mean anti-Korean????”
It is the best way I can think of to get people to think about how misguided it is to seek out who was a collaborator and who wasn’t.
There is too much to tackle on this issue without even getting into the politics and emotion of it.
For example…..some of the best evidence of “pro-Japanese collaboration” seems to be the material support Korean factories gave to the Japanese during WWII and the colonization of other parts of Asia.
However, if we remember that Korea had very little contact with the greater world beyond Asia until shortly before the Japanese took over, it isn’t hard to understand why many Koreans viewed WWII as a battle between the Asians and the whites.
So perhaps helping the Japanese could be considered being “pro-Asian” rather than “anti-Korean.”
This line of argument is more difficult if we consider the colonization of other Asian nations Korea helped Japan accomplish. But, I’d like to go back and check how many of the nations Japan went after in Asia were already under the control of Western European powers or significantly influence by them……The idea of kicking out the white to benefit the Asians likely works in those areas well enough.
But the core element of why I hate the collaborator nonsense is this point that I think is undeniable —
I believe very few Koreans, I mean very few, very, very few, wanted to remain just another province of the Japanese homeland.
And I think this is also important for us to remember when considering some of the benefits that came with the Japanese colonization…..
higher life expectancy, railroads, even things like Japanese historians restorying Sokuram (sp?) are all fine and dandy…..
….but it is not an excuse for colonizing a nation.
The colonial period a hundred years from now will still be a difficult nut to crack for even non-Korean historians. It absolutely boggles my mind that some people believe trying to dig up such an issue in high octane, politically and emotionally charged South Korean society — at this point in time especially — is a good idea.
And I’ll close with this……it is also nuts to believe the issue is going to be “resolved” with this new commission. If they write a final report, it will only lead to another report some 3 to 5 years later when another political party and/or generation of politicians become the majority. I believe this coming commission will be nothing more than the start of a series of commissions that will keep going like the energizer bunny until the last of the Park Chung Hee era Koreans (who have some connetion to the heart of the collaborator issue) are dead and buried.
Yes, they were used as police and yes they were in government, but they weren’t in decision making postitions. A big part of this is because of the Saito, the Japanese governor who began running things in Korea at the time. Without writing page after page, he brought about much reform and eased many of the horrific burdens the general population of Korea had been under. It also needs to be decided what a collaborator is. Is it the clerk in a government office, or someone making obscene profits and helping in the continued subjegation of the general population?
Also, no organized resistance to Japanese rule after 1919? Huh? There most certainly was. Nationalistic groups of various flavor were all over Korea. While you never had the massive demonstrations of 1919 again, which, by the way lead to thousands dead, tens of thousands injured and even more arrested, you still had plenty of Korean political activity and resistance to Japanese rule.
I get tired of this revisionist clap trap. “Hey they taught you how to read!” Ignoring the fact that the most minor of infractions could lead to a brutal lashing or other harsh punishment.
Japan was there in Korea for one thing, to make itself stronger. They raped the country. They gave minor eduction to Koreans so they would be more productive workers in their factories. They made concessions to the population only when it benefitted them and were masters at manipulating their Korean cronies. They did their best to eradicate the Korean culture. Hell, Korean language professors were jailed for the horrific crime of publishing a Korean dictionary! They broke up families and caused the forced movement of millions of people to work as their laborers.
Calling the rule of Japan beneficial to Korea is like find a single flower in a field of cowpies and declaring the air fresh because of its scent.
i just wonder sometimes why so many of you feel the need to write the things you write. i mean it’s so obvious that most of you despise korean folk. why bother spending any energy on korea when you hate it so? this issue with the japanese is to me just another angle for you to slam korean folk. i mean can you really tell me that someone who says that koreans should thank the japanese for their occupation isn’t a person who just seethes with bitterness toward the good folk of the three kindoms? c’mon, who you trying to fool?
now, let me try and tell you something in the hopes i can get to a reasonable type like mr marmot. let me tell you how i feel as a person of korean ancestry about the japanese occupation. i personally do not feel a bit of thanks to the japanese and it is right that the koreans do not feel this as well. you see, i don’t care about schools, medicine, blah, blah, and on and on you go, going on and on. i don’t care about that at all. don’t care about collaborators. see what sticks in my craw is the japanese attempt to destroy korean heritage. can you understand that? can you understand that i am offended that they tried to erase the korean language? can you understand my gaul at the looting of korean artifacts? and don’t try to tell me japanese colonialism was just like the western kind; the british did not try to assimilate the indians and destroy their culture. the japanese tried to erase everything korean, and for that, they’ll get nothing from me.
now, having said all that, i do believe the koreans need to move this issue to the side and seek a better relationship with the japanese who after all, are korea’s bothers and sisters. maybe that can start to happen when koizumi stops paying homage to war criminals.
Plunge,
What I am tired of is hearing people claim that the Japanese educated Koreans, doubled their life expectancy, and developed their infrastructure with the sole goal of exploiting them. I have heard enough of that dismissive talk from Koreans who say similar things about the United States.
Plunge, you seem to also be guilty of claptrap:
Japan was there in Korea for one thing, to make itself stronger. They raped the country. They gave minor eduction to Koreans so they would be more productive workers in their factories. They made concessions to the population only when it benefitted them and were masters at manipulating their Korean cronies. They did their best to eradicate the Korean culture. Hell, Korean language professors were jailed for the horrific crime of publishing a Korean dictionary! They broke up families and caused the forced movement of millions of people to work as their laborers.
Plunge, that whole paragraph was claptrap.
There were Koreans in positions of authority in colonial Korea, including provincial governors and even two generals in the Japanese army.
At the end of the March 1 uprising, “Japanese officials counted 553 killed and over 12,000 arrested.” Korean nationalists claim 7,500 were killed, but that number was just an estimate made by a nationalist Korean who was not even in Korea at the time; nevertheless, Korean textbooks choose to cite the higher number.
Plunge, please tone down your claptrap and be more specific with your accusations, so that there might be more chance for debate.
Are there any even-handed books available (in English) about the Occupation that would shed some more light on this issue?
I admit to knowing next to nothing about the details, but I’ve also heard people make the point that if the Japanese had not annexed Korea, the Russians would have. Do you really think any part of Korea would be an independent nation today if that had happened?
Gerry,
Let’s look at it. First, education. The Japanese set up a elementary education system for Korea. The system was set up to teach basic reading skills and more importantly to train them in the ways of being Japanese. Yet, it wasn’t to make them “Japanese” because they were never accepted as equals. For the most part, Koreans and Japanese did not attend the same school. Very, very few Koreans were allowed to progress. Only 5% of Korean students were allowed to go beyond this basic “education” or should we say indoctrination.
You somehow think they were doing this out of the goodness of their hearts? Give me a break. It was the process of trying to change the Korean children, to give them a “Japanese” outlook on things, to basically erase Korea. It got so bad that in the 1920s Koreans formed groups to maintain their culture and language and teach them to the children.
Korean’s had schools, and there were many private schools, but the Japanese went out of their way to shut them down. Although they would teach reading, writing and math skills, they weren’t teaching the children to be good Japanese.
The Koreans in high positions of power were collaborators IMHO. But this garbage of looking at the large number of Koreans working in government and somehow trying to show this as Korean acceptance for the occupation is ridiculous. It is the same for citing Koreans in the Japanese army.
Next, you are going to take the Japanese count of death and arrested, you didn’t mention injured, over the count of the Koreans? Yes, it was a count by Nationalist Koreans, both IN and out of the country. Reminds me of the official count of the Kwangju incident and what has later come to be a much higher count.
Again, Korea was in the process of modernizing themselves when Japan took over. Large reforms had already started to take place in the economy, military, schooling and health services. There was no need for Japan except for Japans own gain. Trying to say this was altruistic in any way is pure crap. Freedom of speech was eradicated, the press shut down and any gathering of Koreans was punishable by imprisonment or harsh physical punishment.
We aren’t talking about the Japan of today, but the Japan of the early parts of the 20th century. Apologists for the Japanese occupation of Korea remind me of apologists of any other brutal and cruel regime.
As somewhat of a Japanese apologist, allow me to add my own 2 cents. Plunge, you’re absolutely correct in pointing out that the social and economic development that took place in colonial Korea was not instituted out of the kindness of Japanese hearts — it was very much in keeping with Tokyo’s interests as a colonial power. The education system that it instituted in Korea is a case in point; while it was probably a good deal better than the one found in the later stages of the Chosun Dynasty (and the post-colonial state adopted it almost wholesale, so it must have been good for something), access to higher education was quite limited, and like in most colonial states, education was geared to teaching “practical” skills rather than the skills required to run your own country. Regardless of whether it was marked improvement over what was there previously, it was, in the end, a system designed with Japanese needs in mind, not Korean. What the colonial state did provide, however, was a very useful model for post-colonial elites to use to bring about very rapid state-controlled capitalist development. After 1945, and even more clearly, after 1961, Korean leaders adopted Japanese administrative models for their own and turned them toward Korean rather than Japanese ends. The Japanese must be given credit, too, for doing away with a feudal social order that was nothing but a barrier to development. For the majority of the population, the Chosun state was just as exploitive (and the list of offenses for which you could be punished for just as long, although, I admit, they did not include speaking your own language), the primary difference being that under the colonial state, at least they were being exploited with some sort of goal in mind. Does this mean that Koreans should be thankful? No — nobody should be thankful for being colonized, especially when that colonization is accompanied by a systematic attempt to wipe out your culture. But history — like most social sciences — doesn’t lend itself very easily to the good/bad dichotomy.
Of course, this is very easy for me to say — my ancestors did not have an up-close and personal experience with Japanese colonial policy, so I have an easier time looking at Japanese expansionism in the late 19th/early 20th century from a more detached, global perspective. It also allows me to posit that if Korea had been successful in its belated modernization attempts under foreign pressure (like Japan), it would have probably behaved in a similar fashion as other late-developing states in the colonial era, i.e. it would have rushed as quickly as possible into the Great China Gang Bang (like Japan). I often wonder what that would have been like, watching a modernized Chosun fighting it out with the Russians and Japanese for control of Manchuria.
Alas, that’s not how the proverbial cookie crumbled…
poiboy is spouting the standard parrty line again.
My ancestors were all from Ireland. Now, England was not exactly touchy-feely in Ireland. If you want to make the case of cultural geniocide, Ireland is a good example.
However, I am mature and educated enough to admit a few things. The idea of being “Irish” developed under English rule. So did “rule;” Ever see the movie “Gangs of New York?” Well that pretty accurately describes the social situation in Ireland arounf 1850.
Now, poiboy, let’s recap again: Just because a Big Nose says anything critical of Korea does not mean he/she hates Korea. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Most people here in Canada no absolutely nothing about Korea and could care less. I do know a lot and I met many fine people there. I am therefore very interested in the Korean people’s future. This is not exactly the future of the ruling elite that is in the balance now, I am a supporter of the Korean version of myself, a Dad trying to support a family. I doubt many readers here see things from that perspective and let me assure you, it changes your outlook a lot.
I sometime feel that Korean emotions towards Japan are a mix of envy, “familiarity breeds contempt” and misplaced scapegoatism. I have lived on both places and the daily isntitutions are very similar. The main difference is that Japan is not so focused on its past or politcs. People go about thier daily lives in a more mature way than Koreans.
I personally don??р꽓t hate the Japanese people of today as a whole. How can a rational human being claim to hate 126 million people because of their nationality and the not so distant historical crimes/ sins of their ancestors. To be honest, I acknowledge the so-called “Gross National Cool” of modern Japanese pop culture and their technical as well as economical prowess.
Whom I deeply despise are those extreme right-wing Japanese revisionists and apologists, who don??р꽓t want to accept but to whitewash ANY historical sins of Imperial Japan and ANY of their proven brutal treatment of their then weaker, technically backward Asian neighbours in Korea, Taiwan, Mainland China and South East Asia. Those Japanese folks who sees and pitty themselves only as innocent victims of the Pacific War with the truely horrible carpet bombings of their cities and the dropping of the nuclear bombs by the US, with deadly consequences for the civilian Japanese population. Those Japanese guys prefer to look on and bemoan primarily the effects or results of their past suffering, but on the other hand they don?쨈t want to dig deeper to the ultra-nationalistic, racist and imperialistic cause of their wartime catastrophe. The Imperial Japanese society have viewed the other Asian folks as inferior subhumans, dirty backward Koreans or Chinese as well were not more worth than the dirt under their soldier?쨈s boots, let us not forget the racist mindset of Imperial Japan?쨈s colonial and war aggression in Asia.
US-Americans in general (my very simplified assessment) are forward-looking, practical and overall optimistic people, who seek for new frontiers and challenges, with the ???뱇et??р꽓s do it???-approach of settlers and immigrants. I think, they don??р꽓t want to deal a lot with the past in contrary to the history-obsessed societies especially here in East Asia (or Europe, the Middle East etc.).
IMO they tend to interpret the ???뱖hining??? or ???밷emoaning??? of past injustice as a sign of weakness and backward-looking self-pitty or as a pschological hindrance/ obstacle for future progress. For East Asians in general, be it practical or not, the Chinese proverb: ???밚earn from the past, if you want to build the new??? is the defining/ determining device. My 20 won.
P.S.: Only to kimchipig. Man, you must decide once and for all who should be your “poiboy”. Mr. Shin Jong-Il or me, Sugar Shin. If you can’t differ between two Koreans/ Korean-Americans with the same “family name” ID, how could you ever differentiate between 48 million South Koreans in general?
I would like to echo what kimchipig says.
Many of us way-gooks actually love Korea and the fact that we might criticize its infantile historical obsession with its neighbor is an expression of that love, not a dig at Korea. Call it tought love-
Nationalism has blinded this country’s youth.
Here’s a question…..why are there over 2,000,000 Koreans STILL living in Japan????
Is life among the evil Japanese so horrible??
And ask yourself, if you were a Japanese, how would you feel to have hundreds of thousands of Koreans (supporters of the North) living in your country, espousing hatred of you, sending their kids to schools that proudly exhibit the two Kims, the evil dictators of a country that has kidnapped your citizens, lobbed a missile over your land, and threatens to destroy you in a sea of nuclear fire????
The more young South Koreans ignore this question, the worse the situation will get.
SundubuMan,
I?쨈ve not much time now. I don’t believe that kimchipi’s claim, that he likes Korea is true and honest, but this is my perosnal opinion.
There are actually, as far as I know, ca. 680 000 Koreans living in Japan. Not all are supporting the North, but the DPRK was quicker and cleverer than the ROK to be supportive to the Korean residents in Japan, when they had been widely discriminated and ignored by a gross of post-war Japanese society.
“…infantile historical obsession with its neighbor” - SundubuMan
The same goes for China and Japan as well. In this region of the world everyone is more or less obsessed about the past, if you like it or not. Have a nice day, SundubuMan.
Kimchipig,
and the japanese are polite.
Gaijin baka-yaro? Hai!
Some of you freingers are missing the point… the Japanese colonial rule of Korea can be compared to a forceful marriage… the new husband can claim that he did it with good intentions and assumed the responsibility of feeding the woman as long as she is `obedient’.. now from the woman’s perspective… the life is like a hell and probably feels like being being raped…. even after the separation (mediated by
a police man) the psychological trauma stays on….
Yes, I believe that Koreans have to move on and
collaborate with Japan on building a peaceful and
stable NE Asia….. but I feel we are still far
from there…. Just remember it cost to Europe
2 World Wars and 10s of millions of lives lost to
reach current stage of cooperation and integration..
Bill,
I think the answer to your question is short — No.
Even for non-Korean academics, the colonial period is too fresh and too much a hot potato to tackle as a whole without having to tip toe around contemporary sensitivities or simply having your view point affected significantly by the still politically charged nature of the topic.
Two works I do know about are Michaeil Edson Robinson’s Cultural Nationalism in Colonial Korea 1920-1925.
I don’t know if he has come out with another book (this one was in 1988). The book is useful, but the time frame for it is short to consider Japan’s penetration of Korea which began in the late 1800s and finished in 1945.
The other book is Carter Eckert’s Offspring of Empire - The Kochang Kims and the Colonial Origins of Korean Capitalism 1876-1945.
Read that then wonder if the new Korean decision to hold an “official” commission to determine who were the “pro-Japanese” Koreans will label the Kims as terrorist to the Korean people and nation….
I want to hear what the Koreans are going to say about people like the Kims very much and about Park Chung Hee too….
Sugar Shin,
I agree with you on the ultra-right in Japan that wants to deny Japan’s past. It also seems to effect the general knowledge in Japan as well.
But, I’ll wait until I believe Japan is trying to repeat those past mistakes before I start screaming at them about their textbooks…..I think this is a big difference between me and the average Korean adult I’ve taught over the years.
And lastly, another reason I hate the bleeping collaborator issue is that it naturally gets bogged down by an argument about whether the occupation was “good” or “bad” with everything not connected to the freedom fighters (mostly in Manchuria) being the only “truly good” Koreans and the rest tainted by non-resistence or “collaboration,” especially if they happened to try to build up the society around them which was controlled at the top by the Japanese but was still guess what - a Korean society nonetheless……..
Shin Jong Il,
Shut the bleep up….
The collaboration issue and judgements about the colonial period really mean next to nothing to me, beyond what I hope to see for the better of Korean society…..
because I’m not Korean nor Japanese. If South Korean society wants to rip itself apart needlessly on the “pro-Japanese” (anti-Korean???) issue, it means nothing to Americans or anybody else with the exception of the Japanese……so why do I care?
Because, dimwad, some of us big noses have invested a good bit of our time in Korea and in connection with Korea and