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	<title>Comments on: RIOT!!!!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/</link>
	<description>Korea... in Blog Format</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: dda</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1966</link>
		<dc:creator>dda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1966</guid>
		<description>챈짹?????쨀쨋 is an island in the middle of a river. What do you want to call it then? You're welcome to walk the ditch, or swim, or take the boat at 챈짹?????????짢... 


PING:
TITLE: Is South Korea a Democracy?
BLOG NAME: Kamelian X-Rays
 Flying Yangban and Kevin at IA both have some quality pictures and commentary on the riots held in Seoul yesterday by farmers against the FTA with Chile and the Iraq deployment. I'm just stunned by the depths to which

PING:
TITLE: Rioting in Korea
BLOG NAME: Barry Talks!
The South , of course.

PING:
TITLE: Koreans and the FTA
BLOG NAME: Silent Running
The Marmot has a post about South Korea's reluctance to pass a free trade agreement with Chile. Its worth reading just to see how misinformed most Koreans are about the issues involved. At any rate, the Koreans were dragging their...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>챈짹?????쨀쨋 is an island in the middle of a river. What do you want to call it then? You&#8217;re welcome to walk the ditch, or swim, or take the boat at 챈짹?????????짢&#8230; </p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Is South Korea a Democracy?<br />
BLOG NAME: Kamelian X-Rays<br />
 Flying Yangban and Kevin at IA both have some quality pictures and commentary on the riots held in Seoul yesterday by farmers against the FTA with Chile and the Iraq deployment. I&#8217;m just stunned by the depths to which</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Rioting in Korea<br />
BLOG NAME: Barry Talks!<br />
The South , of course.</p>
<p>PING:<br />
TITLE: Koreans and the FTA<br />
BLOG NAME: Silent Running<br />
The Marmot has a post about South Korea&#8217;s reluctance to pass a free trade agreement with Chile. Its worth reading just to see how misinformed most Koreans are about the issues involved. At any rate, the Koreans were dragging their&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: seaofjapan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1965</link>
		<dc:creator>seaofjapan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1965</guid>
		<description>just a technical comment from me mr marmet hole.. you said "yoido"... "yoi" isnt a "do".... just because sombody dug a shallow ditch around some land dont make it an island.. ok.. as far as the rest of your comments.. i will say this.. korea will always choose the wrong path... nomatter what.. if u help korea.. they will hate you.. if you work with korea.. they will hate you.. everything is always a zero sum game.. to any korean its impossible to imagine a win win situation.. so signing a FTA is illogical to a korean.. they cant possibly understand that two parties can benefit.. at the same time..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just a technical comment from me mr marmet hole.. you said &#8220;yoido&#8221;&#8230; &#8220;yoi&#8221; isnt a &#8220;do&#8221;&#8230;. just because sombody dug a shallow ditch around some land dont make it an island.. ok.. as far as the rest of your comments.. i will say this.. korea will always choose the wrong path&#8230; nomatter what.. if u help korea.. they will hate you.. if you work with korea.. they will hate you.. everything is always a zero sum game.. to any korean its impossible to imagine a win win situation.. so signing a FTA is illogical to a korean.. they cant possibly understand that two parties can benefit.. at the same time..</p>
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		<title>By: angus</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1964</link>
		<dc:creator>angus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1964</guid>
		<description>and all this is over chilean grapes? hmmm. i can't wait for the games to begin when the koreans are forced to open their rice market in a year or so. but, let's put this into perspective. if you cut out the street violence, which seems to be a korean tradition, these guys are not acting too differently from french wheat farmers, japanese rice farmers and american cotton producers; meaning that they are using every possible means to avoid foreign competition by intimidating their elected representives. and, btw, since farm protection is such an emotive issue in all societies, how do you expect them to act? these guys see this as the thin edge of the wedge and that soon they'll all be booted off their 5 hectare farms. which may or may not be such a bad idea since most of these farmers are 50 years and counting. one way or the other there will be a massive reform of korean agriculture in the next ten years or so; either by demographics or legislation. all of this, however, does not absolve the politicians of their craven cowardice in the face of this issue and their complete abdication of their duty to lead the nation. sound familiar?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and all this is over chilean grapes? hmmm. i can&#8217;t wait for the games to begin when the koreans are forced to open their rice market in a year or so. but, let&#8217;s put this into perspective. if you cut out the street violence, which seems to be a korean tradition, these guys are not acting too differently from french wheat farmers, japanese rice farmers and american cotton producers; meaning that they are using every possible means to avoid foreign competition by intimidating their elected representives. and, btw, since farm protection is such an emotive issue in all societies, how do you expect them to act? these guys see this as the thin edge of the wedge and that soon they&#8217;ll all be booted off their 5 hectare farms. which may or may not be such a bad idea since most of these farmers are 50 years and counting. one way or the other there will be a massive reform of korean agriculture in the next ten years or so; either by demographics or legislation. all of this, however, does not absolve the politicians of their craven cowardice in the face of this issue and their complete abdication of their duty to lead the nation. sound familiar?</p>
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		<title>By: haisan</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1963</link>
		<dc:creator>haisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1963</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but so what if cities are more resilient than villages? Vocations, villages, whole societies come and go -- 'tis the march of history. Being born in Bunghole-li doesn't give you the right to suck at the taxpayer's teat so you can live there the rest of your life. Being born into a rice-farming country doesn't give you the right to sell your product at hugely inflated prices at the expense of the public (i.e., your customers). You have the right to do whatever you want, just don't demand I pay for it.

I apply this argument as much to Newfoundland fishermen and European farmers as I do rioting South Koreans. This starry-eyes nostalgic coddling of traditional industries does the economy no real good and hurts more people than it helps -- especially in the third world, where farming is often non-viable because of all the subsidized product swamping the local markets.

I also partially blame the governments for tacitly telling these people that their archaic jobs will be preserved indefinitely, rather than teaching them the world has changed and that different skills and flexibility are necessary now.

That said, I wonder what makes the Korean political system so susceptible to rent-seeking (special interests)... These endless corruption scandals and useless parliamentary sessions aren't signs of a low level of morality amoung Koreans and Korean politicians -- the problems are too endemic -- they are signs of structural problems that need fixing.

Offhand, I'm inclined to think that until Korea shifts from personality-based political parties to policy-based, nothing will change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but so what if cities are more resilient than villages? Vocations, villages, whole societies come and go &#8212; &#8217;tis the march of history. Being born in Bunghole-li doesn&#8217;t give you the right to suck at the taxpayer&#8217;s teat so you can live there the rest of your life. Being born into a rice-farming country doesn&#8217;t give you the right to sell your product at hugely inflated prices at the expense of the public (i.e., your customers). You have the right to do whatever you want, just don&#8217;t demand I pay for it.</p>
<p>I apply this argument as much to Newfoundland fishermen and European farmers as I do rioting South Koreans. This starry-eyes nostalgic coddling of traditional industries does the economy no real good and hurts more people than it helps &#8212; especially in the third world, where farming is often non-viable because of all the subsidized product swamping the local markets.</p>
<p>I also partially blame the governments for tacitly telling these people that their archaic jobs will be preserved indefinitely, rather than teaching them the world has changed and that different skills and flexibility are necessary now.</p>
<p>That said, I wonder what makes the Korean political system so susceptible to rent-seeking (special interests)&#8230; These endless corruption scandals and useless parliamentary sessions aren&#8217;t signs of a low level of morality amoung Koreans and Korean politicians &#8212; the problems are too endemic &#8212; they are signs of structural problems that need fixing.</p>
<p>Offhand, I&#8217;m inclined to think that until Korea shifts from personality-based political parties to policy-based, nothing will change.</p>
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		<title>By: chubbybee</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1962</link>
		<dc:creator>chubbybee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1962</guid>
		<description>major evasions.... 1) i never said there weren't other workers with dependents... i said you undercounted those who depend on a protectionist market for agriculture.  2) your skill set obviously gives you more flexibility than farmers, should you lose your job 3) similar to comparing yourself to the farmers, comparing cities to villages is wrong.  cities (not named detroit, at least) are far more resilient to economic transformation than villages.

you have the luxury to be sleepy.  wake up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>major evasions&#8230;. 1) i never said there weren&#8217;t other workers with dependents&#8230; i said you undercounted those who depend on a protectionist market for agriculture.  2) your skill set obviously gives you more flexibility than farmers, should you lose your job 3) similar to comparing yourself to the farmers, comparing cities to villages is wrong.  cities (not named detroit, at least) are far more resilient to economic transformation than villages.</p>
<p>you have the luxury to be sleepy.  wake up.</p>
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		<title>By: kimchipig</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1961</link>
		<dc:creator>kimchipig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1961</guid>
		<description>The comments here are totally missing the point. The Great Leader had large amounts of support in the farm sector after 1945 and right up to the end of the Korean war. Many of the partisans that were active in South Korea right up to the 1960s were recruited off the farms. Remember the Ceju massacre? Well, that was all about "land reform." Farmers in Korea have a history of violent acts in South Korea and they also have a history of taking their lead from Pyongyang.

This is nothing but a successful continuation of the Dear Leader's plan to paralyse the South. Not that He is allowing all the political infighting to continue but blocking anything that would open the South's ecomony more. Hell, there have been more reversals this year than I can count, the beef and poultry import bans for example, two of SK's largest import items.

Juche for all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments here are totally missing the point. The Great Leader had large amounts of support in the farm sector after 1945 and right up to the end of the Korean war. Many of the partisans that were active in South Korea right up to the 1960s were recruited off the farms. Remember the Ceju massacre? Well, that was all about &#8220;land reform.&#8221; Farmers in Korea have a history of violent acts in South Korea and they also have a history of taking their lead from Pyongyang.</p>
<p>This is nothing but a successful continuation of the Dear Leader&#8217;s plan to paralyse the South. Not that He is allowing all the political infighting to continue but blocking anything that would open the South&#8217;s ecomony more. Hell, there have been more reversals this year than I can count, the beef and poultry import bans for example, two of SK&#8217;s largest import items.</p>
<p>Juche for all!</p>
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		<title>By: slim</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1960</link>
		<dc:creator>slim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1960</guid>
		<description>Noone in the political world here has shown any real leadership on the FTA, and this proscrastination has brought us to within two months of elections. I think Haisan has a point on structural factors -- the weight of rural votes being greater than those of urban ones. Also, I assume there are a lot of members of parliament, especially GNPers from Kyongsang, who are large rural landowners or absentee landlords of farms. (That said, the National Assembly is ineffective on EVERY policy issue -- except say the debate on spelling Korea "Corea")

But there is a deeper bias against imports in general, as any consumer will note. Politically, there appear to be no groups who are not captive to vested interests. This is surely not unique to Korea, but I think the high-octane "Uri" (Juche?) nationalism and the pervasive mercantilist mentality exacerbate it. Consumer groups are notably nativist here, too.

Have you ever seen a Korean member of parliament question why food costs are always higher (in relative-to-income terms, and often in absolute terms) here than in other OECD countries or why a stock model Korean car costs at least 50% or more here in Korea than a features-loaded one of the same model does in the U.S.?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noone in the political world here has shown any real leadership on the FTA, and this proscrastination has brought us to within two months of elections. I think Haisan has a point on structural factors &#8212; the weight of rural votes being greater than those of urban ones. Also, I assume there are a lot of members of parliament, especially GNPers from Kyongsang, who are large rural landowners or absentee landlords of farms. (That said, the National Assembly is ineffective on EVERY policy issue &#8212; except say the debate on spelling Korea &#8220;Corea&#8221;)</p>
<p>But there is a deeper bias against imports in general, as any consumer will note. Politically, there appear to be no groups who are not captive to vested interests. This is surely not unique to Korea, but I think the high-octane &#8220;Uri&#8221; (Juche?) nationalism and the pervasive mercantilist mentality exacerbate it. Consumer groups are notably nativist here, too.</p>
<p>Have you ever seen a Korean member of parliament question why food costs are always higher (in relative-to-income terms, and often in absolute terms) here than in other OECD countries or why a stock model Korean car costs at least 50% or more here in Korea than a features-loaded one of the same model does in the U.S.?</p>
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		<title>By: SteveCarroll</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1959</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveCarroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1959</guid>
		<description>Interesting interview with Chilean Ambassador to the ROK in today's Digital Chosun:

Reporter: Some Korean farmers oppose the free trade agreement between South Korea and Chile. 

Ambassador Fernando Schmidt: I want to point out three things. First, the FTA with Chile will allow Korean farmers to make inroads into the Southern America market. Remember that an FTA is a bilateral agreement. Second, Chile is not an agricultural country. The agricultural industry constitutes only 4.3 percent of the gross domestic production in Chile. Third, Chile is not an agricultural product exporter. Please remember that Chile agreed to export grapes, its main export product, to Korea for only a specific time period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting interview with Chilean Ambassador to the ROK in today&#8217;s Digital Chosun:</p>
<p>Reporter: Some Korean farmers oppose the free trade agreement between South Korea and Chile. </p>
<p>Ambassador Fernando Schmidt: I want to point out three things. First, the FTA with Chile will allow Korean farmers to make inroads into the Southern America market. Remember that an FTA is a bilateral agreement. Second, Chile is not an agricultural country. The agricultural industry constitutes only 4.3 percent of the gross domestic production in Chile. Third, Chile is not an agricultural product exporter. Please remember that Chile agreed to export grapes, its main export product, to Korea for only a specific time period.</p>
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		<title>By: ari(w)rong</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1958</link>
		<dc:creator>ari(w)rong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1958</guid>
		<description>Well people getting weapy eyed about farmers and farmers getting militant aren't limited to Korea.  ADM invokes the family farm to pretty good effect back home and God look at the French farmers.  I just don't understand it ... as you point out, Marmot, people don't get this up in arms about secretaries or waitresses who are out of work, for example or room salon women for that matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well people getting weapy eyed about farmers and farmers getting militant aren&#8217;t limited to Korea.  ADM invokes the family farm to pretty good effect back home and God look at the French farmers.  I just don&#8217;t understand it &#8230; as you point out, Marmot, people don&#8217;t get this up in arms about secretaries or waitresses who are out of work, for example or room salon women for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: The Marmot</title>
		<link>http://www.rjkoehler.com/2004/02/10/riot/#comment-1957</link>
		<dc:creator>The Marmot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rjkoehler.com/?p=524#comment-1957</guid>
		<description>Come on chubbybee -- if my cushy little expat job that allows me to live large and soft were to suddenly become economically nonviable, I doubt I'd evoke much sympathy by chucking rocks at riot cops in Yoido while demanding that the taxpayer/consumer pay up so that I can keep my job.  Besides, consumer electonics, steel, auto, and semi-conductor firms also employ people with dependents, not to mention whole cities depend on them, and they're the ones who are going to start laying off people in order to keep the farmers happy.  And I haven't even talked about the damage those subsidies do to farmers in developing nations.

Damn, I'm sleepy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on chubbybee &#8212; if my cushy little expat job that allows me to live large and soft were to suddenly become economically nonviable, I doubt I&#8217;d evoke much sympathy by chucking rocks at riot cops in Yoido while demanding that the taxpayer/consumer pay up so that I can keep my job.  Besides, consumer electonics, steel, auto, and semi-conductor firms also employ people with dependents, not to mention whole cities depend on them, and they&#8217;re the ones who are going to start laying off people in order to keep the farmers happy.  And I haven&#8217;t even talked about the damage those subsidies do to farmers in developing nations.</p>
<p>Damn, I&#8217;m sleepy.</p>
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