I’m pretty much of the same mind as the Yangban on this one:
Personally, I’m of a mixed opinion about the whole thing. While I certainly don’t condone honoring war criminals, if anyone said that the president of the United States couldn’t visit Arlington National Cemetery because they didn’t like who was buried there, I’d tell him to sit and spin.
Yup. Gonna go back to learning Medieval: Total War now…
UPDATE: Solomonia offers his thoughts on this as well.
UPDATE 2: Alexandre of Shuxie adds his commentary - definately worth reading.
UPDATE 3: Tony of Oriental Redneck discusses this issue, too.
MARMOT’S NOTE: Please, for the love of God, keep it civil in my comments section. Yes, this an emotional issue, but I don’t want to see people launching personal attacks on other posters. And as I made perfectly clear in this post, racial/ethnic slurs will not be tolerated.
51 Comments
The word ‘revisionism’ comes to my mind and I object (see my comment at flying Yangban)
The real fact is that Japan has apologised ad nauseam about what happened almost sixty years ago it is just that people like you, Alexandre, cannot accept them. I do not see anybody in China apologising for the killing of millions by Mao or Tianenmen oly 15 years ago. Japan is sick of others telling it what to do and is moving on. Don’t like it Korea? Then boycott all Japanese goods, especially technology and machine tools. Same goes for China. Neither place is 1% of a country that Japan is.
‘A Former Japan Resident’,
You might want to have a look at the same book ‘the Rape of Nanking’. Mrs Iris Chang is certainly a more reliable source than I ever can be. She describe pretty much in details the repeated denial by all Japanese officials of even the faintest hint of apology.
I would appreciate any link you could provide to a public apology by a Japanese Prime Minister in office. This would certainly prove me wrong. Until then…
This does not mean Japan has done nothing for Asia all this time. I live in Singapore, which would still probably be a dirt-poor island had the Japanese not come there 30 or 40 years ago. Japan has also compensated other countries, but until Japanese children learn the facts in their schoolbooks, I am afraid many people wont consider it enough.
and thus not exactly wont to condone any atrocities, be they due to communism or else.>>
Of course, Algeria and your own extensive collaboration with the Nazi is conveniently forgotten, among many others…
Like I said, “He who is without sin…”
And if you are French, I am Mary Poppins. I can fly to America with my unbrella….
Interesting to follow this thread. First, I highly doubt that “Alexandre” is French. Second, his head is planted firmly up his ass. Korean education is pathetically horrible, all it produces is uncreative, emotional autmatons who fly off the handle at the slightest percieved slight.
How am I qualified to say this? I have taught at Korean universites for SEVEN YEARS. Where are Korea’s Nobel Prizes? The only one they have was bought for a cool half BILLION dollars!
China will never allow emotionalism get in the way of making money. Now that Ssanyyong has been aquired by a Chinese concern, look for China to SMOKE Korea economically in the near future. The Chinese may hate the Japanese but they will never allow that to get in the way of the real path to power…WEALTH!
I’m inclined to agree that Japan has not been as honest as, say, Germany about what it inflicted on a lot of people in WW II. The problem is this - in this neighborhood, very few Ministries of Education are especially frank in dealing with their pasts. Heck, even the West isn’t really honest when it looks at its imperial past in Asia and the role it had in the events that eventually led to the Pacific War. Yes, Japan needs to teach its children about the nation’s sins during WW II. But a whole lot of countries need to start doing the same, and that goes for China, Korea, and the United States (just to name a few).
Marmot: You dig on Medieval: Total War too? It’s the one game I keep going back to my computer.
And like I said over at Yangban’s, the two atomic bombs were punishment enough for Japan, BUT they need to acknowledge that punishment and make an apology for why that punishment was given. (That punishment being dealth by what would some call karma, I would call God’s judgement.)
Where’s Silly Sally when we need a lecture on “shame” vs. “guilt” cultures? That’s my take on the contrast between Japan and Germany in their respective ways of dealing with wartime atrocities. A guilt culture deals with its crimes by confessing and seeking forgiveness. A shame culture ‘deals’ with its crimes by denying and seeking to hide. Germany felt guilty and has tried expiation. Japan has been accused and tries to lessen the shame.
I realize that all of you know all this already and that I’m oversimplifying the issues anyway, but there it is.
As a historian steeped in sociological and anthropological theory, I’m supposed to remain value neutral (so they say), but I still think that a guilt culture is better for developing a mature relation toward others through inculcating a sense of personal responsibility. This probably translates into collective responsibility as well, though that’s a more complex issue.
I’d better stop now, or I’ll lose the thread.
Jeffery Hodges
Or perhaps a culture on conscience?
you should also take into account that Japan has never unequivocally apologized about the “comfort women” it has enslaved during world war II. More than half of those comfort women are Koreans
[Rest of comment deleated by the Marmot]
Marmot’s note: I thought I made clear my policies on the use of ethnic slurs in my comments section. If there’s any confusion, I suggest you re-read my post of Dec. 27: “A couple of important things”
Medieval:Total War is a superb game. It got so bad my wife (”She who must be obeyed”) told me to get rid of it.
The Chinese and the Koreans occupy a moral high ground constructed mainly with the rotting corpses of their own victims landsman all. The Japanese are pikers when it comes to killing. The communists all over Asia have spent the last sixty years showing the rest of us how it’s done. It was seriously pronounced by Mao apologists on his 110 birthday that he was 70% good and 30% bad. By these standards the Japanese are perfect. Let’s face it. Life was cheep in Asia and many other places in centuries past. The problem is that life remains cheap in the back yards of those who complain the loudest about the Japanese (or the Americans for that matter).
Regards.
Timmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Marmot: You dig on Medieval: Total War too? It’s the one game I keep going back to my computer.
And like I said over at Yangban’s, the two atomic bombs were punishment enough for Japan, BUT they need to acknowledge that punishment and make an apology for why that punishment was given. (That punishment being dealth by what would some call karma, I would call God’s judgement.)
Posted by: Christopher at January 3, 2004 02:56 AM
you know Christopher, you are a nice-enough guy. But sometimes, you just confuse the hell out me.
“BUT they need to acknowledge that punishment and make an apology for why that punishment was given”
you could have said
“But they need to acknowledge that the punishment was just. They should apologize for their sins”
and it would have been crystal clear
Sometimes, it just beats the hell out me, some americans are so inept in expressing themselves in their own language (duh, think bush).
And I would like to slap you back to reality. The atomic bombs were never meant as punishment to the –, it was dropped by the americans supposedly to end the war as soon as possible. But I also doubt that, because the japanese during that period were running low on oil, without the bombs, the japanese would have surrendered simply because no more oil was going to fuel their war machines.
the second world war was a war won by those who had oil
the Germans simply ran out of fuel, in africa, in russia, everywhere.
one of the major blows suffered by the Germans was when the allies blasted to smithereens Germany’s coal cracking combines. the Germans had to crack coal to convert it to gasoline.
here are some talk from that time (quotes not exact)
“give me petrol and i’ll win the war in ______” (something like days or less than a month)
“petrol, the lack of it, could make one weep”
the bombs were never meant as punishment, heck, it was not even meant to end the war quickly
it was a white assed, drawl speaking bloke who kicked tires in a Ford showroom and decided to take a pickup truck for a spin.
the americans even had to put into shame the very man who engineered the creation of the bomb. go read about J. Robert Oppenheimer
yes christopher, it was a damned live test
nagasaki and hiroshima were the perfect firing range
and that is why we hate the americans
christopher is “SUPERIOR”? PUHAHAHAHAHA
just stick to Shiri
The point of the above comment is a trifle unclear. Anyone want to take a shot at converting it into coherent English?
Thanks,
Tony
There was no Manhattan Project until Germany and Japan decided to take over the world. They have no one to blame but themselves for their pummeling defeat. Where I grew up there were many veterans of the Pacific war who were happy they didn’t have to storm the mainland of Japan. The Japanese penchant for fighting to the death precluded other more conventional solutions. Historians are famous for describing the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan as evil and unnesscisary. But these moralizing kings of hindsight know that it wouldn’t have been platoons of Historians hitting the beaches. The fact that it took two bombs to get them to surrender should tell you all you need to know about their willingness and ability to fight on. Oil was in short supply all over the Pacific during most of the war. That never stopped the entrenched Japanese infantryman from wasting his life in the service of the Emperor. Hate Americans if you like. Only the hand wringing, lefty verity of American cares what you think. The rest of us see the double standard you judge us with and know it’s based in jealousy not reality.
Koreans were a part of the Japanese empire and were fervent supporters of Japan’s war against China. Even former Korean comfort women have confessed that they supported Japan’s war in China. The Chinese can point to to the “Rape of Nanking” and demand apologies, but Koreans cannot. In fact, it can be argued that Koreans were accessories to that crime.
Since the end of World War II, Koreans have been trying to convince the world that they were also victims of the Japanese, on par with other Asian countries, but that is one of the biggest lies of the 20th century.
There is absolutely no point arguring with a Korean. Why? Because if he does not get his way, he will resort to spam in this case or violence in the case of street protests. In Asia, and in histroy, he who is without sin can cast the fist stone. Alexandre, you are Chinese, so the atrocties commited in the name of communism are accepteble. Lux, you are a poory educated Korean boy who sees his national identity as a function of hatred of others. I have seen this all to many times.
The fact remains, if you hate Japan so much DO NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM IT. HIT THE BOOKS, STUDY HARD AND BEAT AT THEIR OWN GAME.
But that is hard work and hate is easier.
Japan and Japanese do not care what Koreans think on any issue. For a nation that craves attention (good or bad, it seems) this is the ultimate insult.
Horace Jeffery Hodges,
Your insight was quite — sexy!
It stimulates my moral juices when I see a man willing to rise above the politically correct crowd, and make a value judgement like a manly-man: yes, the West is Best.
Silly Sally
“Japan and Japanese do not care what Koreans think on any issue. For a nation that craves attention (good or bad, it seems) this is the ultimate insult.”
Very true Former Japan Resident. Youngsters should just cool it, drop the irrational hatred and enjoy the relative peace, prosperity and health that our father’s generation fought and died for.
Whatever it’s past sins Japan is a force for good in the world. The majority of Japanese alive today bear no responsibility for the acts of their father’s. I completely reject the religious concept of original sin.
luisalegria: Yea, I don’t play the game that often but when I do it is for HOURS. It really is a challenging game. To bad you had to let it go…or perhaps it was a good thing?
*shurgs*
Some excellent points made here. Gerry, your points regarding Korean complicity are right on the mark, however it is completely acceptable in Korean eyes to cover up the unpleasant aspects of their history while castigating Japan for doing the same.
The outright admiration these same Korean boys have for the communist gulags immediately north and west of them has always struck me as rather odd. They also support China’s entrance into the Korean war. Strange but what they do not realise is that if they were in said places, their right of free speech bestowed on them by the Hated Americans would be non-existant.
Korea will never be a major player in any international venue until it can realise, as a society, that it’s tirades only damage Korea’s reputation, not anyone else’s.
I would like to take this comment to “OUT” the MARMOT.
The Marmot is a — Moral Metro-sexual.
Mr. Marmot, since you won’t willingly come clean into the light — I must assist you.
Your righteous insistence that all societies behave like Christians: eg. “should get — honest — with themselves” shows that you just don’t get it: a common failing of men.
Honesty requires loyalty to an objective will transcending the immediate goals of human survival and gratification. Koreans, Chinese, and Japanese have no loyalties transcending the will of their race. Did you not know this? I guess not since you did your “grad studies” in Korea.
Koreans are not the most enlightened people to get your education from, now are they?
Marmot — quit trying to force the world into being a rational machine that merely needs to be “fixed”.
Your insistence that Asians need to be “fixed” with moral-plastic surgery is your own metro-sexual’s obsession.
Asians are less concerned about honesty, and more obsessed with being “NUMBER ONE”.
Quit trying to be girlishly admired for your pontifications about everyone “getting honest”— and let Asians, be Asians.
Silly Sally
‘Former Japan Resident’,
For your info, I am about as French as they come, and thus not exactly wont to condone any atrocities, be they due to communism or else.
We are having a serious discussion here, no point getting personal I think. You would do justice to the debate by assuming the people you are talking to are not stupid idiots, nor are they brainwashed.
Regarding China, you might want to know that though they are still to look clearly at Tibet and the events after 1980 (1989 especially), the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are now officially considered blunders.
And re: your point that Asian should rather study hard than criticise. That’s exactly what they are doing. I lost the source, but one newspaper (I think the FT) recently said that basically, the Japanese system was failing where the Asian neighbours were replacing it by a more open one. As for the Asian students, just look at some, and you will see they are quite willing to make up with Japan. I would personally bet on them, because I think their approach is more open.
And you may only remark that each time Japan offend the rest of Asia, the governments try to calm down the situation, and focus rather on economic ties. But full normalisation is impossible until one PM goes live on TV and bows while presenting his apologies to Asia. Numerous CEOS and chairmen of busted companies, and some ministers have done so on other scandals, so I think it is not impossible.
Gosh, you two are funny guys! that’s the first time in my life someone doubts I am French. I kindly offer you this link: http://www.shuxie.net/about_me.html (sorry I did not remove the glasses). Hope this helps.
Re: Algeria and collaboration during Nazi occupation, please open a French history book. There are certainly grey areas, but I learned the basis before I was 12. I am not talking of countries having never done any mistake, I am talking of those that do not admit them.
Right now I only care about playing some Total War now….
‘look for China to smoke Korea…’
perhaps korea will become another Japan with decades of no growth.
‘china will never let emotionalism get emotionalism in the way of making money.’
neither do the koreans; japan is korea’s third largest trading partner. korea is japan’s third largest trading partner.
‘china will smoke korea…’
i don’t see china becoming as wealthy as south korea anytime soon. korea is developed. china is not.
re koguryo and chinese land grab in a united korea:
‘…they’ll (the chinese) have to fight the russians and Japanese for it (Korean territory).’
and not the koreans? wow, i find that one amazing. so many people trapped in the prism of korea’s history. korea is armed to the tooth and has the know-how to build nuclear weapons and the machinary needed to deliver them. the koreans, of course, will have every right to use them. nobody’s going to attack Korea and try to control it. pity the fool who tries.
There are certainly grey areas>> GREY AREAS!!! What about Vichy and Marchal Petin? What about Renault? What about the round-up of Jews in Marsailles? What about Klaus Barbie, who conveniently died in prison before his trial? Who did the French Army employ in Algeria? The French cover-up their history just as much as the Japanese ever did. What is more, YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO EITHER KOREA OR JAPAN!
HAS FRANCE APOLOGISED TO GERMANY (Napoleon), Poland, Russia, its various slave states, the Native Indians in Canada, Guiana, Dreyfus, Ausrtia, all of which it waged aggressive war on?
-GET REAL YOU COWARDLY HYPOCRITE!—-
Oh, to be 20 years old and know everything again!
Why do the French have tree lined boulvards?
And the above poster, improve your English before you spout your nonesense
Lux, perhaps you are the number one semiconductor maker (and that is debatable over Taiwan) but 100% of the technology comes from one Japanese company: Tokyo Electron.
>who invented the internet?
The concept of internet was developed by the US military as a way of making sure files could be safely duplicated in case of nuclear war. GUI and the WWW was actually an English invention.
>who invented cdma?
CDMA was invented by an American technology company called Quaalcom. If you look at your cell phone you will see the logo somewhere on it.
>what’s the number one cdma powered country today?
Korea is but GSM and 3-G are superior formats.
Lux, get to a library and some research beore you spout your nonsense.
‘Ex-Japan Resident’, you’re a troll, I’ll leave it at it.
Don’t talk to me about France (or Europe, for that matter) history, I know it better than you do, all you list I learned at school, on TV, in the news, something the Japanese can’t do about some parts of their history.
I have been to Japan, I have family living there, I have studied its history.
And I seldom feel the need to talk to people IN CAPITAL LETTERS, that’s rude.
Interesting comment, however, Alexandre, before pointing out Japan’s dubious habit of skipping the nasty parts of it’s history, what is your opinion of France doing the same? Has France ever apologised or paid compensation to:
1. The families of the Jews rounded up by Vichy?
2. The victims of the Algerian war, which was incidently fought mostly by former SS men, this in itself a cover-up (see the book “The First Casualty,” by Philip Knightly for the ugly side of French policy in Africa in the 1950’s)?
3. The families of SS prisoners used by the French Navy to work out their dive tables?
4. Political prisoners sent to Devil’s Island?
5. The Dreyfus family?
6. Slave labour used a Renault?
7. Collaboration with the Nazis (by May 1944, over one third of Germany’s war effort was from France, another fact largely ignored by the French)?
8. The imperialistic war waged in Indo-china?
9. Standing idly by why the Tutsi and Hutu slaughtered each other in Rwanda
These examples are only in the last 100 years or so. I could go back further.
However, France has swept these incidents under the rug just as efficiently as Japan ever did. No compensation was ever paid and no collaborators ever went to prison.
You are the Pot Calling the Kettle Black, Alexandre.
Same comment as always: I learned all that in school and you won’t risk you life researching into that in France.
“no collaborators ever went to prison.”
As for the collaborators of the nazis, there were about 50,000 people convicted at different degrees after the war, and some stayed in prison until the 1960s. We have three people tried anc convicted for crimes against humanity, and I can ensure you this guys were not exactly popular.
As for the most recent issues (Rwanda), we have a free press, and that was heavily commented. And if I may, we were the first country to send troops there. We would certainly have appreciated some help at that time.
Regarding your specific list:
1.2.5.6.7.8: Yes
The other ones, I am not sure.
Please don’t miss the point: facing the past or not, not whether the past was good or bad. You could work out such a list for any country, that would not excuse anything.
And try not to declare things as if you held the absolute truth. You apparently don’t know everything about the post-war situation in France, so get the infos first, or ask questions, rather than saying mistakes.
>>Please don’t miss the point: facing the past or not, not whether the past was good or bad. You could work out such a list for any country, that would not excuse anything
Alexandre, this exactly the point I am trying make here; any nation that obsessively dwells on another’s past is bound to dig up dirt.
>We would certainly have appreciated some help at that time.
France’s involvement in Africa is hardly altrustic.
Alexandre, please tell me about the history of Waffen SS members in the French military.
1. Do you deny this?
2. Did they join voluntarily?
3. Were any of them guilty of war crimes either in the war you lost after ten days (World War II) or the Imperialistic genocide in Algeria?
4. Was anyone in France punished for any war crimes in Algeria or Indo-china?
5. How much compensation was paid by France to Algeria and Indo-china and when?
6. When and by whom were apologies made?
Since you claim to be an expert on history, I am very intersted to hear what you have to say.
Were the Japanese to admit all that themselves, there would be no need for foreigners to remind them. It is sometimes good for a nation to dig up its own dirt.
For instance Most European Nations don’t need anyone to admit their guilt in the past events. And I can go live on TV to say that collaboration was sh*t without receiving death threats, nobody will even object. More, saying the contrary would get me sued.
So, Alexandre, you in denial about France giving SS men the choice:
“Kill for us, or we’ll kill you.”
You are just as bad as the Japanese. You cover your atrocities just as much as they ever have.
A brief outline regarding what Alexandre denies can be found here:
http://home.arcor.de/kriegsgef.....rocco.html
Would it be too much to ask if we could try to keep this from becoming a French-bashing tournament? And please, watch the negative generalizations, regardless of whether they’re about Koreans, Japanese, Americans, or the French. Thanks.
Jesus, I’m with Christopher on this one - I think it’s time to load up Total War. Just bought Rise of Nations, though… figure I’ll give it a try. I was a rather big Empire Earth fan - thought the scenario and campaign design tool on that game was the best I’ve ever seen. The one on CNC Generals gives my a friggin’ migrane.
What does our French historian think of this?
http://www.eliteforces.freewir.....ERMATH.htm
“It has been said by one ex-SS Foreign Legionnaire that all the success in Indo China were carried out by the French Paras or the German Brigade of Foreign Legionaries. This German brigade continued to fight as a unit until 1951 when the French government became embarrassed by the fact that there were ex-Waffen SS troops fighting for France. The French press ran headlines to the effect of “SS murderers at large in Indo-China!”
Alexandre, was compensation ever paid to the victims of these Nazis in French service? If so, when and where?
Are you denying that this happened?
Marmot,
This is not a France bashing exercise at all. It is a simple case of “he who is without sin can cast the first stone.”
My entire point has been that Korea and China, not to metion all ethnic groups who have been “slighted” in the past (and name one that has not) need to get on with things.
Dan Roberts,
I am not denying anything (why did you ever think I was denying anything?), neither is France. Were you French litterate, you could find a lot of references to that, including on official websites. This is a known fact.
As for the compensation, you may want to look at ‘l’Agence Francaise du Developpement’ ( http://www.afd.fr/ ). It has substantial activities in former Indochina. Note that the relations between these countries and France are currently excellent.
But once again, this is off topic. I will let it at that. Just don’t imagine you have a scoop here.
While generally skeptical of Korean national tantrums, in the case of the Yakasuni shrine…..gotta support Koreans.
Here’s why: If you study the history of this affair, you’d know that China and Korea have not been indignantly protesting these visits by the Japanese Prime Minister since 1945 ….oh no
In fact, the Yakasuni shrine was a regular stop of Japanese leaders up until the early 90’s. And China and Korea had no problems with that, it wasn’t even reported. In this sense, Koreans did not have an issue with Japan commerating armed forces dead and civilian victims.
Why? Until the early 90’s (can’t recall the exact year) the scrolls with written names DID NOT INCLUDE THE CONVICTED WAR CRIMINALS. Then, a liberal Japanese newspaper discovered that the war criminals names - including the infamous Tojo - had recently been added.
In my opinion, this is truly a shameful act of the Japanese government and the Koreans have a right to be outraged. If the German Pm laid a wreath on a Hitler memorial, it would be a devastatingly vicious slap in the face to all who suffered and died opposing him, or at his hands.
Marmot - reading this, do you change your opinion?
‘improve your english before you spout your nonsense…’ ex japan resident
if i do, will i then be as smart as you? please don’t attack my english, attack my ‘nonsense’.
listen, this is not a difficult issue. a japanese prime minister visiting a shrine that pays homage to class a war criminals is simply wrong. Just as it would be wrong for an american president to pay homage to robert e lee. just as it would be wrong for the german chancellor to pay homage to nazi war criminals. what’s so hard to understand here?
by the way, the french need to compensate and apologize to the vietnamese.
For some reason I couldn’t get into Empire earth. I’m a fickle strategy fan and have yet to find a game that REALLY tickels me in the thinking area. In fact I’m in search of one. So far Age of Empires (for military wise) and Total War have come close but it’s like you can’t get personalize with all the tools you have so I feel short changed by the ability to fight and build an empire.
Japanese prime ministers have been visiting the Yashukuni Shine since 1975, which means they were visiting the shine before the Class A war criminals were enshired in 1978. That would seem to imply that they are visiting the shire to honor Japan’s war dead, not her war criminals.
However, even ignoring that fact, though China’s indignation can be considered righteous, Korea’s cannot because Koreans supported Japan’s war in China and in the Pacific. Koreans were even convicted and executed as war criminals at the end of World War II.
It is simply not true that Koreans supported Japan’s war on China. Koreans living in Korea had no choice but to pretend that they supported whatever the Japanese were doing in public because Korea at that time was occupied by the Japanese. But Koreans living outside Korea in China, America, Russia etc were united in condeming Japan and trying to gain Korea’s independence from Japan. For details just ask me.
Interesting thread but I did notice that Alexandre, while willing to point the finger at Japan, is unwilling to address the issue of Waffen SS fighting for France. Denial is not only for the Japanese.
Interesting thread but I did notice that Alexandre, while willing to point the finger at Japan, is unwilling to address the issue of Waffen SS fighting for France. Denial is not only for the Japanese.
But once again, this is off topic>>
Interesting when the topic is Japanese war crimes, you are interested in discussion. When French war crimes are mention, you refuse to talk. Funny that.ed
I usually lurk here but as a history lecturer in European and Asian-Pacific issues I believe that I am qualified to comment here.
It must be in the French national psyche to blame others while pretending their own transgressions never happened or at least playing them down. The debacale of May 1940 is a prime example; the defeat of the numerically superior and better equipped French Army of 150 or so conveniently blamed on the ten devision BEF. This is a widely held belief in France and the fact that the majority of French troops never fired a shot is conviently forgotten
In this case, a young Frenchman has been stating that Japan denies it’s past. It certainly does in many areas but the ironic thing is that his own country does exactly the same thing. No direct apology or compensation has ever been paid or apology issued to any former French possession. Granted, there has been a lot of “aid” but it was never in the form of reparations.
The young man claims that France has issued apologies and paid reparations and states that “French publications” contain the scources for this but he fails to quote a single one of them.
France’s imperial legacy was at least as bad as Japan’s and it went on for a lot longer. There is no doubt in my mind that Napoleon would have killed on a Nazi scale if he has possessed the technology to do so. The fact is France holds no moral high ground on anybody and saying so is yet another historical hypocracy.
France in fact denies its history more than Japan and there is a lot more to deny.
OK, I think we’ve all said what we have to say on this issue (and more). I’m going to close the comments on this post for now.
Thanks for the lively discussion.
PING:
TITLE: Demonstrators rally against Koizumi’s visit to war shrine
BLOG NAME: Solomonia
Boston: Demonstrators rally against Koizumi’s visit to war shrine TOKYO (AP) Demonstrators in Seoul and Tokyo protested Friday against Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi’s visit to a shrine honoring Japan’s war dead the day before, saying it dam…
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TITLE: Yasukuni Shrine: A momument to Japanese revisionism
BLOG NAME: Shuxie
http://www.links.net/vita/trip.....nce.lg.jpg Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi of Japan went once again (that’s his fourth visit in four years) to visit the (Shinto) Yasukuni Shrine on 1 January. As you can read on the websit…