Comments on: More venom for the GNP

By: paul

paul — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 00:02:32 +0000

As someone who often has to romanise on the run with Korean names, going from either hangul or hanja, I can only say that (South) Korea is a pain in the neck — at least compared to mainland China and Japan. Although I respect South Koreans’ right to seek phonetic individuality, it was a hell of a lot neater and more efficient to work with Japanese names or Pinyin names in the PRC. Despite chiding from the government a few years ago my media firm, Reuters, has rejected the 2000 (?) revamping of the spelling system and we still use Inchon, Pusan etc.

By: oranckay

oranckay — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 23:59:39 +0000

EXACTLY what I mean when I say “Westerners like to say it would be dictatorial to tell citizens how to romanize their names.” A perfect example, actually.

Perhaps you do not realize that the president is head of a state that already tells him to spell his surname ??┑?instead of ?징흹. Note that in neither ??┑?and ?징흹 is there any basis for adding an “h.” To say it’s spelled “Noh” in Korean would be incorrect, even if we presume ??쨈 = n and ??? = o.

For the time being, and for most purposes when I write about him in English, I write it Roh, as he prefers (also for the time being).

The Supreme Court tells people which name hanja they can use and which they can’t. People have petitioned the court to have additional name hanja added, but no one has sought to fight the Supreme Court at the Constitutional Court. In other words, no one is questioning the idea that the state can tell people how to choose and spell (in han’eul) their names.

I used to hate this issue and really still do, but after many expressions of total ignorance myself I came to see the politicial significance of the issue. Bored way to many people in the process in:

?째쩍????쨀쩌 ?쨔????? 2000??? ?째???? (written under my Korean name, ??흹?째????)

and the very hastily written:

“The Practical Politics of Romanization” in Korea Journal, Spring 2001

By: ]ody Fister

]ody Fister — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 23:22:36 +0000

Don’t get huffy mister. Of course you are free to misspell his name, as I am free to misspell Marmet if I want. But don’t think the Romanization-scheme-inconsistency backs you up on it. It is a name, and he has chosen to spell it Roh.

I, too, was baffled by this at first, knowing perfectly well that the Hangul spelling sounds like “Noh,” and that many families prefer the N spelling. This may be out of allegiance for an old or new or avant garde romanization system, or it may be out of a preference for the original Chinese pronunciation of the character. Just like some people spell Jeffrey “Geoffrey.” Which is lame, of course.

A man, even a lowly politician, deserves control of his own name, just as you deserve control of your weblog and I deserve control of the universe.

Glove,

Mrs. Robin$on

By: oranckay

oranckay — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 23:22:24 +0000

Yeah and actually it would be “No” for any and all system revisions in SK.

Given how the government can tell people how to spell their names in han’geul, based on the hanja for them, and can limit the hanja from which you can choose the name of your child, and for that matter could easily order you to abbreviate the hanja for your name, it would be entirely with in cultural precedent to start ordering people to follow the rules of romanization on their passports, etc. The foreign ministry’s passport division would like to be able to tell people, too.

Westerners like to say it would be dictatorial to tell citizens how to romanize their names, but every country has rules about names that must be followed (must have a surname, can’t be five pages long, etc).

So Marmot, just what is your system? I’m curious.

By: The Marmot

The Marmot — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:57:03 +0000

The spelling of El Presidente’s name is kind of interesting - the Korean spelling of his name is “no,” although this used to be spelt “ro” (and in North Korea, it still is spelt, and pronounced, that way). However, South Korea instituted revised spelling rules (I forget which year - Oranckay could probably tell you) that, among other things, eliminated the initial “r” and replaced it with either an “n” (as is the case with the president’s name) or nothing at all (like in the word for history - “yeoksa,” which was originally “ryeoksa”). Now, when you take into account the controversies surrounding Romanization schemes in South Korea - controversies I know longer wish to discuss - this makes writing Korean names in English somewhat of an adventure. On my blog, I use my own system (and inconsistently at that), the Korea Times uses one system, and the Korea Herald another. The Chosun Ilbo, for whom I do some [poor] translating, apparently used the official government romanization scheme (or so I’m told by the copy editor), although some people, including the President and the head of the Millenium Democratic Party prefer to have their names spelt in ways that adhere to no existing romanization system. At the Marmot’s Hole, however, I prefer not to deal with that problem and romanize them as I see fit - I believe I was granted that right somewhere in the Typepad contract.

By: Theodore Hoover Carter

Theodore Hoover Carter — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:25:05 +0000

You prolly know it, but El Presidente’s name is romanized “Roh.” Even though it seems counter-intuitive, it’s correct that way, since that’s how he chose it to be on his passport.

This all goes back to the Chinese character for the name, and I can’t begin to explain that.

Glove,

]essica
http://meltingobject.blogspot.com

By: oranckay

oranckay — Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:55:25 +0000

Well said.