Comments on: Conrad speaks the truth on China, colonialism http://www.rjkoehler.com/2003/12/09/conrad-speaks-the-truth-on-china-colonialism/ Korea... in Blog Format Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:46:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Ray http://www.rjkoehler.com/2003/12/09/conrad-speaks-the-truth-on-china-colonialism/#comment-926 Ray Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:24:41 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=352#comment-926 The Chinese have nukes, the Japanese don't. That "entitles" them to their own particular delusions. Come to think of it, the Japanese aren't particularly forthcoming about their history, either. Strangely enough, there's only one major world power I can think of that it's perfectly safe to bash anywhere in the world. The Chinese have nukes, the Japanese don’t. That “entitles” them to their own particular delusions. Come to think of it, the Japanese aren’t particularly forthcoming about their history, either.

Strangely enough, there’s only one major world power I can think of that it’s perfectly safe to bash anywhere in the world.

]]> By: d fresh http://www.rjkoehler.com/2003/12/09/conrad-speaks-the-truth-on-china-colonialism/#comment-925 d fresh Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:52:50 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=352#comment-925 God, I wonder how many people started coughing and gagging in the audience after that little gaffe. God, I wonder how many people started coughing and gagging in the audience after that little gaffe.

]]> By: Kirk Larsen http://www.rjkoehler.com/2003/12/09/conrad-speaks-the-truth-on-china-colonialism/#comment-924 Kirk Larsen Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:18:58 +0000 http://rjkoehler.com/?p=352#comment-924 I thought the Marmotess (sp?) would have set you straight on this one. Mongolia (at least present-day "Outer" Mongolia) was never colonized by the Chinese. Rather it was colonized by the Manchu Qing Dynasty which also happened to rule over China at the same time. When an ethnic Han Chinese Dynasty like the Ming tried to attack and conquer the Mongols (as under the rule of the Zhentong Emperor (r. 1436-1449), the Mongols promptly destroyed the Ming armies, kidnapped the Emperor and held him hostage for several years. Present-day Mongols I have spoken with affirm that they have never been subjugated by Chinese. Many other of the most egregious cases of ???밅hinese??? imperialism were also the result of the conquests of Qing Emperors (Kangxi and Qianlong) in the 17th and 18th centuries. And in the late 19th century, the Qing imposed a semi-colonial informal empire in Choson Korea with all the modern trappings of imperialism??р€쓊xtraterritoriality, self-governing concessions, gunboats, troops in the capital, tariff and customs control etc. etc. The big question is, of course, whether these should be described as cases of ???밅hinese??? imperialism or of Qing (Manchu) imperialism. The PRC (and the Guomindang before it; some GMD maps of ???밅hina??? in Taiwan have, until recently included all of Mongolia!) has gone to great efforts to blur this distinction in order to maintain the integrity of the present-day borders but it remains an open question whether this is historically justified. I thought the Marmotess (sp?) would have set you straight on this one. Mongolia (at least present-day “Outer” Mongolia) was never colonized by the Chinese. Rather it was colonized by the Manchu Qing Dynasty which also happened to rule over China at the same time. When an ethnic Han Chinese Dynasty like the Ming tried to attack and conquer the Mongols (as under the rule of the Zhentong Emperor (r. 1436-1449), the Mongols promptly destroyed the Ming armies, kidnapped the Emperor and held him hostage for several years. Present-day Mongols I have spoken with affirm that they have never been subjugated by Chinese.

Many other of the most egregious cases of ???밅hinese??? imperialism were also the result of the conquests of Qing Emperors (Kangxi and Qianlong) in the 17th and 18th centuries. And in the late 19th century, the Qing imposed a semi-colonial informal empire in Choson Korea with all the modern trappings of imperialism??р€쓊xtraterritoriality, self-governing concessions, gunboats, troops in the capital, tariff and customs control etc. etc.

The big question is, of course, whether these should be described as cases of ???밅hinese??? imperialism or of Qing (Manchu) imperialism. The PRC (and the Guomindang before it; some GMD maps of ???밅hina??? in Taiwan have, until recently included all of Mongolia!) has gone to great efforts to blur this distinction in order to maintain the integrity of the present-day borders but it remains an open question whether this is historically justified.

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