Came across a column by Jeon Hyeon-jun, a senior researcher at the government-sponsored Korea Institute for National Unification, in today’s Hankyoreh that represents much of what I can’t stand in Korean academics. Rarely has the phrase “we cannot help but…” been used more in a space of eight paragraphs. If this is the crap you were exposed to on a regular basis, you’d be forgiven for believing that South Korea was not, in fact, a sovereign country. Allow me to reprint my (probably crude) translation of the piece below:
The division of the peninsula into North and South is narrowing Korea’s policy choices. The brittle security situation that derives from the division deepens our military dependence on the United States, and the reality is that this dependence extends to the economy, too. Even if we have grown to become a middle-ranked power, in this situation where we have not achieved a self-sufficient defense, the reality is that we cannot help but accept military assistance from the United States. From this perspective, the foremost path to the recovery of our race’s self-respect will be improving relations between the two Koreas as much as possible and easing the military tensions between North and South.
To the extent that South Korea is “dependent” on the United States, it’s by choice, not the result of some terrible systemic bind that the ROK finds itself in. Given the overwhelming superiority of the ROK over its northern adversary in just about every category that is used to calculate national power, the United States could leave tomorrow and South Korea would still be able to not only defend itself, but unify the peninsula by force if it simply put its mind to it. The ROK relies on the US military because, frankly, its cheaper for it to do so, and that does not, in my book, translate as “dependence.”
And if you think that by cutting deals and playing nice to the genocidal Stalinists that rule the northern half of this peninsula will somehow restore your “racial/national pride,” you’ve got another thing coming when unification is finally achieved.
Like the saying that goes, “When you accept help, you lose freedom,” we, who have accepted American assistance since liberation, have faithfully followed the American line. Even though it’s true that “anti-American” voices have grown louder, when compared to Europe and Japan, they are insignificant.
I hope to hell I mistranslated that, because I can’t imagine an intelligent human being saying that the level of anti-Americanism in South Korea is insignificant compared to Japan and Europe.
The issue of dispatching troops to Iraq most clearly reflects the situation on the Korean Peninsula. The structure of division and dependency on America is creating a situation where we have no choice but to send troops to Iraq. If we make a choice opposed to the American position, the results that may follow are all too clear. The United States carries weapons pointed at our “Achilles heal” - the withdrawal of USFK and our credit rating. No matter how much of a “baby tiger” we have become, when these two forms of pressure are applied upon us, we have no ability to withstand.
Jesus H. Christ, get a friggin’ grip. Your “Achilles heal” is not your “dependence” on 37,000 American servicemen. If you wanted to become self-sufficient militarily, you could do so overnight. But then, that would require resolve, and that’s your real “Achilles heal.” To “free” yourself from your “dependency” (by choice) on the American military, you’d have to raise defense spending to levels consistent with your security situation AND make changes to the draft. But to do so is expensive, both economically and politically, and would require the government to dispense with the pro-North Korean crap and explain to the voters the reality of the situation. So Seoul simply relies on the Americans to provide it security. But make no mistake about it - this is a choice, not an unavoidable concession to systemic realities.
As much as we may hate to admit it, the truth is that to reject the dispatch of troops to Iraq in itself is irrational. With this the case, the key is to find a way to maximize our national interests while minimizing the damages that come with the dispatch of troops.
While I agree that the dispatch of troops to Iraq is in South Korea’s best interests, Seoul is perfectly free to decide otherwise. South Korea is not a colony, after all. Canada, which is arguable just as dependent on the American economy as South Korea, told the US “no,” as did Turkey. The “reality” Jeon fears, however, is that the Americans provide security guarantees to South Korea, subsidize its defense budget, and tolerate the burden of a useless troop deployment in a country fully capable of providing for its own defense, while Washington gets very little in return. That reality, in other words, is that if the Koreans say no to sending troops to Iraq, their own uselessness as an ally will become fully apparent. And there is no reason to maintain alliances with useless friends.
The way to preserve the face of the Americans, minimize the resistance from Iraqis, avoid the condemnation of the North Koreans, while protecting the lives of our soldiers is to send a large “civilian-military Iraq rebuilding team.”
It’s not the face of the Americans you have to worry about - it’s your own. In truth, Washington couldn’t give a rat’s ass whether you send troops or not. They are giving you an opportunity to show yourself as a useful ally, an ally worthy of the burdens the DoD and the American taxpayers must bear in maintaining the US-ROK alliance as it’s currently structured. So don’t think of this as helping to “bail America out” - all the other important reasons (which are many) for committing troops to Iraq aside, look at this as your last chance to earn America’s confidence.
Faced with difficulties, the United States, standing on its “friendship argument,” inwardly wishes for combat troops. Moreover, the United States has revealed its intention to use our weak point - the withdrawal of USFK. But if the US says it’s our friend, it must refrain from pressure using our weak points, which is not an appeal to our feelings of friendship, as such pressure is not a friendly action. Moreover, in the post-Cold War era, the US has ignored the opinions of its allies and acted unilaterally. For example, during the course of solving the North Korean nuclear issue, the US prepared for airstrikes on Yongbyon in 1994 without our knowledge. And despite our “anti-war” sentiment, you attacked Iraq.
The Americans are not “using your weak points” - they are simply stating realities - you’ve been sucking the tit of American power for the last 50 years, we don’t need or want to be in South Korea, and if you’d like to continue screwing the American tax payer so you can maintain defense spending at levels below 4% of GDP, you’d better make yourself useful. And the last thing I want to read is some Korean intellectual lecturing the Americans about “friendship.” Want to learn about friendship? Go visit the UN Cemetery in Pusan. Because I’m in a good move, I won’t discuss the South Korean Foreign Minister’s “friendly” attempt to play hardball with Colin Powell in Washington by linking Iraq to North Korea (at which even the mild-mannered Powell got pissed off). And not for nothing, but do you think it’s possible that we ignored your “anti-war” sentiment about Iraq because unlike us, South Koreans didn’t have to watch two civilian airliners get flown into skyscrapers in downtown Manhattan? South Korea don’t have the responsibilities of providing security in the Middle East. If South Korea had large numbers of troops in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, perhaps we would have been interested in what it had to say. But it didn’t, so we weren’t. Sorry.
If the United States does not maintain friendly decorum, then in this situation when many other nations, including nations that have regarded themselves as friend of America like Japan, Germany, France, Turkey, etc. have either refused to send troops or delayed the sending of troops, we, too, cannot treat you as a friend and there will be no need to rush in sending troops to Iraq.
Fine with me. Personally, I’d love to see what a Franco-Korean Mutual Defense Pact would look like.
If we have no choice but to concede to sending troops, in order to minimize the damages from such a dispatch, we will have to send engineering, medical, and educational units, civilian construction companies, and the minimum number of troops to guard them. In the current situation, where indiscriminate terrorist acts like attacking civilian aircraft are taking place, if we send combat troops and much human life is lost is a suicide bombing like the one that befell the Italians, there will never be a day free from the “anti-American demonstrations” in front of the US Embassy and Seoul City Hall, and because of this, the US-ROK relationship will be gravely damaged.
Sure, you send in Dong-A Construction, and we get to protect them. And this apparent need to appease terrorists annoys me to no end - let’s not help rebuild Iraq (or help in Afghanistan, because the same arguments were applied back then) because Al-Qaeda will target us. And heck, it’s not like they won’t target you anyway - just ask the Turks. In the event that an emergency involving yourself and another one of your neighbors occurs, you had better hope to hell the Americans show a little bit more resolve. If you want the Americans to take risks for you, you first need to show a willingness to take risks for them. And frankly, both in Iraq and North Korea, and current South Korean government has sought to minimize the immediate risks to Seoul by maximizing the risks for Washington. That is not being a “friend” - it’s being a parasite, and the last thing the United States needs right now is parasites.
42 Comments
I’ve always wondered, who the fuck do Koreans think is this country’s “friend” and how do they define the concept of “friendship” in connection with statecraft anyway? Is there a single nation on Earth which has ever extended the hand of friendship to Korea? If not the evil Yankee, which country is Korea’s friend?
Could it be Japan? Nope, not in a million years. China? I thought China was the old imperialist power, pre-Japan. Russia? Uh… Geez, maybe it is France after all.
The lack of reciprocity from the Koreans makes me think that every U.S. taxpayer nickel spent defending this place is a complete waste.
I also hae wondered, as have some of my Korean friends– if the US is so evil and isn’t Korea’s friend, then who IS? No other country has sacrificed more for Korea, nor provided the level of support, economically, politically, or militarily to the ROK that the US has.
Regarding the Franco-Korean alliance - As Tina Fey once quipped: France should’t have any problem taking care of the Korean situation - after all, there aren’t any Jews there.
“Like the saying that goes, “When you accept help, you loose freedom,” we, who have accepted American assistance since liberation, have faithfully followed the American line. ”
“loose” or “lose”?
visible a parsec away
It’s a big enough pain in the ass translating this stuff into English, and now I got people correcting my spelling? Jeeze…
Thanks for pointing that out, nevertheless.
Good review. I will include it in a future newsletter
(with the link to your page as requested).
These translations of the Korean papers are like gold
to me.
I can’t read Korean well enough to skim the papers and
pick out the articles from time to time that are good
to expose to people who haven’t lived in Korea before.
But I want to be able to give an idea of what the
Korean language press reports to Korean society.
Thanks very much…
Don’t rely too much on my translations - one of the reasons I do this blog is to practice my translation skills, and trust me, I still have much to learn. So if there are errors in translation, you’ve been warned.
Was the “Achilles heal” also a typo? Anyway, I have a question about the American troop presence and American national interest. I used to assume that we were in Korea to protect the South from Northern aggression and the Communist threat, period. But my own training in history leads me to doubt my previously held view. Doesn’t the U.S. have larger interests in maintaining forces in Northeast Asia? I don’t think that we worry about the Russians anymore, and I think that we expect the North to implode (but hopefully not explode) sometime in the not too distant future, but we do have concerns about China’s growing power and potentially nationlist tendencies. As you noted, it’s the traditionally imperialist power in this area. My point is that we might have larger interests in staying on the Korean peninsula despite whatever happens in the North. I agree, however, that if the South wanted us to leave, then they’d only have to say so at the appropriate official level. This leads me to another question. You state that South Korea wants us here because our presence allows it to keep its defense costs low. Do you have hard sources on this assertion? I’d like to look at these sources because I’m researching a project on problems associated with Korean unification (which will come, eventually).
Jeffery Hodges
Which country is more threatened by Chinese expansionist tendencies and irredentism? Korea? Or could it be… Russia?
The Russian Far East and Siberia are each extremely thinly populated and coveted by the Chinese, whose population density just across the border in Heilongjiang and Jilin Provinces is 100 times higher. Chinese wetbacks are slowly and more or less silently filling up the farms and factories of the Far East, and might one day choose to declare that “China’s back, baby!” Russia itself is basically enfeebled at the moment, and probably cannot defend those lands from Chinese expansion except by use of nuclear weapons. Russia is an emerging democracy — Putin’s worrisome tendencies toward the press notwithstanding — and America’s new “friend” in the war on terror and other matters. Would not Russia appreciate the deterrent effect of placement of American naval and air forces, as well as a brigade-sized element or two of expeditionary ground forces and some pre-positioned heavy armor, in and around Vladivostok and Khabarovsk?
And anyway, what exactly is America’s national interest in protecting South Korea from the North? Except, of course, that we’ve “always done so.” I’m just curious; can anyone articulate a good reason to be here? Most Americans couldn’t pick this place out on a map, and the few Americans who have had the chance to know and understand the culture hate their fucking guts. There are a few Western wackos who pad around in hanbok slurping ramyon and extolling the unique cultural virtues of “bomb drinks”, but basically speaking, we Americans have nothing in common with Korea. Nothing. Except for our military alliance, which is continued on a “just because” basis at great expense to the U.S. taxpayer.
I’m not one of the “hate their fucking guts” guys (at least not everyday, having been seduced by Michael Breen’s “love ‘em/hate ‘em” dichotomy), nor have I taken up residence in a Buddhist temple. But I *am* sick of the Hankyoreh viewpoint and all its adherents. I think we should leave ‘em to the tender mercies of the Great Leader.
Here’s the best self-interested reason why Americans care about things not exploding between the Koreas again that I’ve found: No more cheap Korean cars and electronics. 500,000 artillery tubes pounding on Seoul for even a day and bye bye cheap new cars. They have good quality too.
Cynical? Well yes, but it would be the single most visible thing that the loss of the South Korean economy would mean if the peninsula went up in smoke. When I pointed this out to my wife one day in response to her asking me what war in Korea would mean to American’s, she replied with “oh, so and so and so and so wouldn’t have been able to buy their first new cars for years then, huh?”
Gen X and Y have bought many (if not most) of the Korean cars sold in the US.
During the Cold War, our American interest here in the South was to prevent the expansion of Communism. The Cold War still lingers on in this place, though I doubt that anyone takes Communism very seriously anymore.
America is — as the French like to say — a ‘Hyperpower.’ Why deny it? (Not that anybody is.) As such a world-historical force, we have interests everywhere. That’s one of our problems. It’s a big reason that we attract the venom and suicide terror of groups like al-Qaida. It’s why we, and not other countries, had to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
So, as a hyperpower, we do have interests in this part of the world, and these will remain even after Korean unification. It’s probably in Korean national interest to maintian an alliance with us, but they may prove blind to this fact — unless an aggressive China starts making demands, raising border issues with Russia, and revising history to assert that Koguryo was never Korean, that sort of thing. Then, the Americans might not look so bad. Don’t forget that China and North Korea revised the border as recently as 1962, giving China 60 percent of Mt. Baekdu.
By the way, could somebody explain something and possibly help me? I tried to access “Lemon Soju” but received this message:
“You are not able to access this webpage because your browser agent has been recognised as a spider, or your IP address has been specifically denied access. If you think a mistake has been made, please feel free to email the webmaster.”
I don’t know what a “spider” is (assuming that they don’t mean the real-life arachnoid type, and I’m certainly not that), and I don’t know how to contact “Lemon Soju” to explain that I’m not a but of any sort. Can anybody solve this for me?
Jeffery Hodges
Oops . . . that penultimate line should have read “I’m not a bug of any sort.” I guess that I might be an ‘ass’ of sorts, though.
Jeffery Hodges
“There are a few Western wackos who pad around in hanbok slurping ramyon and extolling the unique cultural virtues of “bomb drinks”…”
I should point out that I have worn only hanboks since 1997, and I enjoy a good Shin Ramyon more than once and a while (I have very few positive things to say about ‘bomb drinks,’ however). I would also caution against saying that we have “nothing in common with the Koreans” - significant cultural differences aside, the US and the ROK are both industrialized democracies with a number of common interests. Does that mean I support a continued USFK presence here? Hell no. But culture isn’t the whole story.
Perhaps my biggest qualm with continuing to keep troops here is that given the changing regional dynamics, we need allies, not protectorates. If China is destined to become something of a regional hegemon, and South Korea and Japan remain American protectorates, our commitments to the region are going to have to far exceed their current levels if Beijing is to be contained. We need South Korea and Japan to be allies, not burdens. Regional geopolitics are such that China can be contained without an American troop presence - in fact, by allowing Japan and South Korea to happily continue being American protectorates, it makes any potential challenge from China HARDER, not easier to fend off.
American policy in the Far East has long revolved around the principle that no one single power should dominate the region. Assuming that China is the new “threat,” other powers in the region have just as much interest in containing that threat as we do. As long as those powers have the capability to maintain the balance of power in the region (and they do), we have nothing to worry about that would justify and outdated and useless troop deployments.
Marmot,
Based on this stunning piece of information that you’ve worn only hanbok for six years, I admit it — if what you write in this weblog weren’t so sensible, I would most certainly classify you as a wacko. That’s even without knowing about your ramyon habits. As a loyal American, you should wear a cowboy suit every day like me.
Perhaps it’s unfair, but I form an unkind mental picture when I think about “gone-native” Westerners. When I was at the University of Washington, trying to get some work done in the computer lab, there always was a gaggle of chronic masturbators hogging the Macintosh with the flatbed scanner. Which they used, of course, to scan very high-resolution Japanese manga- and anime-character images for furtive masturbatory activities later.
But back to the topic at hand (so to speak): Why do you propose that South Korea should remain an American protectorate?
Sorry if I wasn’t clear about this before, but I most certainly do NOT propose that South Korea should remain a protectorate; quite the opposite - it’s in everyone’s best interests (with the exception of possibly the Chinese) that the Americans a) stop taking the responsibility of defending wealthy, powerful countries, and b) South Korea and Japan begin acting like the Great Powers they aspire to be and begin defending themselves and their interests in the region. There is no reason for the US to defend the balance of power in Asia alone when Japan, Korea, and Russia are fully cabable of defending that balance for us.
Accelerate our work with the Israelis on anti-missle and anti-artillery systems, and bring in India, Japan and S. Korea for deployment if not R&D (yes little Billy, they have lasers now that can shoot down artillery shells in-flight. First prototype deployment is on an American cruiser next year, with the trailer mount version to test in Israel soon after. Solid-state lasers, none of that bulky chemical laser crap).
Many, many of these will of course be wanted for Seoul, after which point the Dear Leader can stick it good and proper. Can he be kept in a box for another 5-10 years until then?
The cruiser mounted version is anticipated to be deployed near Taiwan. Giving SDI a first go caused the Soviets to go bankrupt trying to keep up. Wonder what our actually building it now will mean for the Norks, the CCP, the Paks and the Persians?
“The cruiser mounted version is anticipated to be deployed near Taiwan. Giving SDI a first go caused the Soviets to go bankrupt trying to keep up. Wonder what our actually building it now will mean for the Norks, the CCP, the Paks and the Persians?”
Whoa! what do we have here? another republican hawk? you americans never learn. Wars are never won by firepower alone. You should have learned that in Vietnam, and now history is whacking you in the head again with your mounting problems in Iraq. How much stamina does the american public have? Will the american nation still be very gung ho when its sons and daughters go home as cargoes by the boatloads?
The Iraqi guerillas do not have anything to lose (and not “loose”, marmot). They could fight an endless war. The only way to end the Iraqi problem would be to turn the whole country into a howling wilderness.
And you can build the most sophisticated SDI for all you want, but you will never be able to subjugate the whole planet.
You Americans will always live in the shadow of fear. You will always have the need to sleep with a gun tucked under your pillows. You will always have the need to contain your porous borders.
You are rich and powerful but you will always fear for your lives, anytime, anywhere
Right at this very moment, al qaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah cells are plotting a repeat of september 11. Right at this moment middle eastern fanatics are raring to strap bombs into themselves.
Does the american public have the stomach for an endless and faceless war? you tell me
let every american home be a bunker, let every american airport be a checkpoint charlie, let every american be armed to the teeth
and hey marmot, do not think that the americans are in such a high moral ground when it comes to friendship.
americans are here in korea only because their presence in the peninsula serves their interests. americans are the greatest users of people this planet has ever seen.
and Korea is on the right track in standing up to the american neighborhood bully, otherwise, they would suffer the same treatment that the americans give the “filthyfinos”. a lot of filipino soldiers died in world war 2 standing up against the japanese in corregidor and in the subsequent death march in Tarlac while Douglas MacArthur was having a holiday in Australia (he tried to be comforting though when he left, he promised “I shall return” puhahhahaa). Until this day the filipino soldiers who survived corregidor and the Tarlac death march never got a cent in the form of retirement benefits for their services to “mother America”. those soldiers belonged to the USAFFE (United States Armed Forces in the Far East) but the americans are washing their handsansd are saying that they don’t know anything ablut it. you know why? because the filipino politicians are the most subservient, the most obsequious, and the most servile american lapdogs in asia. and the americans are treating then as such. they are no better than door mats.
On the other hand, the americans rebuilt berlin and tokyo, the supposedly axis of evil. you know why? BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE INTERESTS OF THE AMERICANS TO DO SO.
One day, the americans will have their comeuppance. No empire lasts forever. Not the Tang, nor the Yuan, nor the Ming, nor the Qing, nor the Roman, nor the Ottoman, nor the British.
Not even the mountains last forever, not even ?째짹?????째
“America is — as the French like to say — a ‘Hyperpower.’ Why deny it? (Not that anybody is.) As such a world-historical force, we have interests everywhere. That’s one of our problems. It’s a big reason that we attract the venom and suicide terror of groups like al-Qaida. It’s why we, and not other countries, had to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.
”
Jeffery Hodges
You had to go to war in those countries because YOU were instrumental in making those countries what they were and what they are today. Just ask the CIA.
Sometimes in your high in playing god of geopolitics, you don’t even look further than the next bend in the road. and when the shit hits the fan…
even the mountains do not last forever, not even ?째짹?????째
“The Americans are not “using your weak points” - they are simply stating realities - you’ve been sucking the tit of American power for the last 50 years, we don’t need or want to be in South Korea, and if you’d like to continue screwing the American tax payer so you can maintain defense spending at levels below 4% of GDP, you’d better make yourself useful.”
Marmot
OH! and the americans are enjoying having their tits sucked.
The american presence in the peninsula is never dependent on Korean sentiments. Whatever the Koreans think and say, if the Americans still want to be here, they will still be here, Period.
What dictates american policy is SELF SERVING INTERESTS. When the SELF SERVING INTERESTS scale tips, the americans decide. when it is no longer in their interest to be in this peninsula, they will pack up and go.
just look at the philippine experience. subic naval base and clark air base used to be among the biggest bases of the americans in asia. the american fleet got logistic support from subic during the vietnam war. the towns around the bases also grew into among the biggest fucking grounds of the american horny gi’s in asia. maybe they even rival dongducheon in size. and when the americans were still there in the philippines (the GI’s i mean, the american politicians are always in the philippines, the philippines is their shitting ground) they even did more gruesome human rights violations. there was a case in which bored american guards shot scavengers in the base periphery. you know what they said? “WE THOUGHT THEY WERE WILD BOARS”
not even the threat of the new people’s army (the armed wing of the communist party of the philippines) made the americans leave. Not even the shooting of Colonel James “Nick” Rowe, chief of the army division of the Joint U.S. Military Advisory Group (JUSMAG)in April 21, 1989 made the americans leave.
here’s an account:http://www.psywarrior.com/rowe.html
“On April 21, 1989, Nick was returning to the US Embassy in an armored limousine when hooded members of the communist New Peoples’ Army (NPA) attacked his vehicle with automatic weapons. Under normal circumstances these weapons alone would not have been a threat to the occupants of the vehicle. However, “Murphy’s Law” of “Whatever can go wrong will go wrong” was in full force. The vehicle’s air conditioning had broken down earlier making the inside of the vehicle almost unbearable in the Philippine heat. To compensate but still provide safety, the driver had opened the small window vent to allow fresh air to circulate into the car. Several rounds found their way through the open vent killing Nick instantly. ” (yeeha!!! sometimes the stifling heat and humidity are good weapons)
you know what made the americans leave? the June 1991 eruption of Mt Pinatubo,
“the second-largest volcanic eruption of the 20th century after the 1912 eruption of the Mount Katmai volcano in Alaska.
The eruption blew away one cubic mile of the mountaintop — about 1,000 feet disappeared off the 5,725-foot peak. It created a crater one and one-half miles across and produced an ash cloud that rose 22 miles into the atmosphere, spreading out for hundreds of miles. Ash fell as far away as the Indian Ocean, and ash clouds circled the globe. The earth shook for eight hours.
At the same time, a typhoon off the Luzon coast turned inland. Mixing with the ash cloud, it caused the skies to rain mud.
”
http://www.af.mil/news/Jun2001.....0812.shtml
The americans must have thought “to hell with the filipina pus*ies, let’s get outa here!!!” (anyway, filipina pus*ies could still be had in dongducheon these days, ASSSAA!!!
The towns around those bases were never able able to shake off the fucking industry spawned by the presence of the americans. these days one can still get a sex tour to the philippines and go to olongapo and angeles cities.)
for the americans, IT WAS NO LONGER IN THEIR INTERESTS TO MAINTAIN THE BASES.
Too bad, the Korean peninsula doesn’t have volcanoes. (maybe what the Koreans could do is grab all the americans on the peninsula and give them ddong-tchim 24 hours a day 365 days a year until they all pack up and go)
And hey, Marmot, do not give us that bullshit that american taxpayers are in pain due to the presence of the troops here in Korea. Well, the american taxpayers may really be in pain, but whadyaknow, the american politicians and the military brass are just very happy to have a lot of bases around the globe. That way, a lot of military budget could get rollin’ . When money moves, there will always be skimming opportunities, there will be dough for a round of golf. and hey, if you do not maintain your belligerent stance, what will happen to the defense contractor boys? what will happen to grumman or to lockheed martin marietta, or to hughes-raytheon-general dynamics, or to mcdonnell-boeing?
you have to realize that the military might be like a blackhole when it comes to the federal budget, but hey, some good comes out once in a while too, you have to remember that the INTERNET was a DARPA project (and the microwave oven was invented at raytheon). but of course it has become what every significant consumer technology has become. the americans start something, the asians then copy and dominate. Internet (you know how sucky the connection in the states is for the ordinary john), SDRAM’s, TFT panels, handphones (CDMA huh)
When are you going to have a troll? be careful what you wish for
let the games begin
Oh, Jesus, not the evil “military-industrial complex” crap again… and don’t give me the arguement that “American will remain in Korea as long as it wants” - Korea can very easily remove itself of its “bullies” by asking them to leave. It’s very simple, actually, and every sovereign state can do it. Truth be told, they wouldn’t even have to put in an official request - they can do what the Filipinos did - call a referendum (I noticed you didn’t mention that in your Mt. Pinatubo rant). It’s that simple. Of course, at this rate, USFK might very well be long gone before the Koreans can make an official request, mostly on account that Korean leaders view the presence of USFK on Korean territory as in their national interests.
Coincidentally, I’m not calling for American troops to stay in Korea, or in Japan, or in the Phillipines. I’m saying they should all go home and let the regional powers handle regional affairs. If China is a threat (and I’m not sure that it is), then Japan, Russia, India, Korea, and the Southeast Asian states are fully capable of containing that threat with little or no direct American involvement. If occasions arise where American assistance is required, basing agreements can be worked out when it happens. But having troops on the ground doesn’t mean as much as it used to, especially in a region sporting some of the world’s largest military budgets (supporting some of the world’s largest militaries).
And since you know brought it up, the American taxpayer and DoD is NOT happy to see American bases all over the world - it’s not only a financial burden, but it reduces the effectiveness of the American military. Too many commitments, not enough resources, and if it starts to effect the economy, and effects military budgets, too - Paul Kennedy could have told you that. In point of fact, DoD has been pushing for redeployments and base consolidations, while it’s the STATE DEPARTMENT that’s concerned about the political ramifications of pulling troops out of places like South Korea.
One last note - if you think that the Americans are the biggest users the planet has ever seen, my wife would be more than glad to regail you with tales of what it was like to play host to 100,000 Soviet troops - gives you a slightly different perspective.
Gabriel, sounding the apocalypse, wrote:
“You Americans will always live in the shadow of fear. You will always have the need to sleep with a gun tucked under your pillows. You will always have the need to contain your porous borders. You are rich and powerful but you will always fear for your lives, anytime, anywhere. Right at this very moment, al qaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah cells are plotting a repeat of september 11. Right at this moment middle eastern fanatics are raring to strap bombs into themselves. Does the american public have the stomach for an endless and faceless war? you tell me.”
Do we Americans “have the stomach for an endless and faceless war?” No — not yet, we don’t. But if 9/11 terror becomes a repeat, plus more, then we will. It’s not a pleasant future promised by the radical Islamists, and this horrifying future faces not only the Americans.
Gabriel then added this prayer-like invocation:
“let every american home be a bunker, let every american airport be a checkpoint charlie, let every american be armed to the teeth.”
Gabriel, you sound almost gleeful about this. If you’re not yourself one of the Al-Qaeda style Islamists, then you have as much to fear as the Americans. Al-Qaeda didn’t order the Taliban to blow up the Bamyan Buddhist statues because they hate America. What did the Buddhists ever do to deserve that?
But if you’re Gabriel of the Apocalypse, then perhaps you identify with Bin Laden. For my views on radical Islamism, see:
http://www.hanshin.ac.kr/~hih/.....sc_18.html
My own views are somewhat nuanced, as you will see. Unlike your own, apparently.
Jeffery Hodges
“Gabriel, you sound almost gleeful about this. If you’re not yourself one of the Al-Qaeda style Islamists, then you have as much to fear as the Americans. Al-Qaeda didn’t order the Taliban to blow up the Bamyan Buddhist statues because they hate America. What did the Buddhists ever do to deserve that?”
Typical american. the world has to be in black and white. us or them. if you’re not with us, you’re with them. So Bush. so right wing.
You should realize that there are grades, there are shades.
Are the British with the Al Qaeda just because they did not go to war with you in Iraq?
If the people not going to war on america’s side are against america (in all respects), then you should double the thickness of your bunkers. There are how many americans? how many sucide bombers would it take to annihilate the american race?
The americans and their politicians must wake up
Times have changed.
You can no longer invoke the communist bogey in your thirst for world domination.
You can no longer invoke peace to make war
The current world order is the responsibility of the Americans.
The americans are responsible for driving other people into dire straits such that those people have nothing to lose anymore.
and when you have people who have nothing to lose as enemies, it is the end.
no amount of technological superiority will win the war for you.
heck, the third world countries can bring america to its knees by planting more poppies and by making more methamphetamine hydrochloride
but the americans can win the war right now, just turn the rest of the world into a howling wilderness
“and don’t give me the arguement that “American will remain in Korea as long as it wants” - Korea can very easily remove itself of its “bullies” by asking them to leave. It’s very simple, actually, and every sovereign state can do it. Truth be told, they wouldn’t even have to put in an official request - they can do what the Filipinos did - call a referendum (I noticed you didn’t mention that in your Mt. Pinatubo rant). ”
referendum? was there one? I could remember the phil senate and congress voting to boot the americans out. but what the heck, those are just filipino politicians, with a little arm twisting and some carrots they could have overturned that referendum result. in the philippines it doesn’t matter what the populace say, what matters is what the politicians say, and they are one of the most corrupt in asia and in the world (think banana republic, well the philippines is A BANANA REPUBLIC).
But back to the bases, the americans are actually back in the philippines. first in a consulting capacity in the phil govt’s. war with the secessionist Moro National Liberation Front and Moro Islamic Liberation Front and the bandido group Abu Sayyaf. then, as expected, the american soldiers’ fingers were too itchy, so they were allowed to fight side by side with the phil military against the Muslim rebels in mindanao.
See what I mean?
“From the Halls of Montezuma
To the shores of Tripoli”
what is this hymn for if the american military can not go where it pleases.
as an aside: the war in Muslim Mindanao in the Philippines can never be won or be concluded.
to win that war, all the maguindanaos and the maranaos and the badjaos and the tausugs will have to be decimated. Mindanao will have to be rid of Muslims to solve the Muslim problem and in this age, do you think Mahathir Mohammad will just sit in silence?
another thing, the Philippine military is so corrupt, guns issued to them turned out in the hands of the Muslim rebels. It turned out that Uncle Sam with all its benevolence gave the Philippine military guns and ammos and patrol boats and junk huey’s and junk training planes and the philippine military, in all it’s corrupt glory sold GUNS AND AMMUNITIONS BY THE TRUCKLOAD to the MNLF and MILF and the Abu Sayyaf. Its a fucking joke out there. Well if you want more of the philippines go to this: http://www.inq7.net
and why should the marmot be interested in the philippines? he should be because, the al qaeda and the JIslamiyah have cells there. The region in the southern philippines and indonesia are teeming with Muslim fanatics who are closely associated with the radicals in the middle east (think Qaddafi and bin laden). Some of the fighters of the MNLF and the MILF have even fought in Afghanistan.
Aside: Do you know that the Philippine Muslims are one of the fiercest fighters in the world? In fact, the famous M1911 45 caliber pistol was designed for use against the Mindanao Muslims during America’s pacification campaign in the Philippines when the americans took over the phil from the spaniards.
The kris wielding Philippine Moros can not be stopped by the 38 caliber pistol being used by the americans. When a moro got shot, he still managed to inflict injury with his kris or even killed the shooter. The 45 caliber was designed for stopping power - to stop a moro who has gone amok.
You see, you americans have put yourselves into a bind, in your thirst for global power, you have alienated much of the world. and sometimes, you are even very ignorant of the workings of the world.
Take this:
“Do you have blacks, too?”-Bush To Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001, as reported in an April 28, 2002, Estado Sao Pauloan column by Fernando Pedreira, a close friend of President Cardoso
or this:
“This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating.”- Bush Quoted by the New York Daily News, April 23, 2002
It is quite scary when the commander in chief of the mightiest army on the planet talks like that
Sounds a lot like, “our leaders make decisions I disagree with it, so it must be America’s fault.”
Sorry, but the Marmot’s still not interested in being in the Philippines - none of the regional powers have much interest in seeing Islamic groups flourish in SE Asia, ASEAN has a proven track-record with dealing with cross-border insurgencies, and if the Filipino military can’t handle it, I see no reason why the Singaporian, Malaysian, or heck, the Australian militaries cannot. If American expertise and/or equipment is requested, then it can be given on an ad hoc basis depending on American interests. Or how about this - since you’ve obviously got a problem with American military assistance to the Philippines, why don’t we just let the problem fester long enough until it becomes a problem for the Chinese, and then let the PLA and PLA Navy take care of it? Since, as you’ve stated clearly enough, the Philippines is a banana republic, and in the post-Cold War era, the geopolitical value of such banana republics have diminished quite significantly, why shouldn’t events in that archipelago be Beijing’s headaches rather than Washington’s?
Or even better, why not make them Tokyo’s headaches!
PS: If you could do me a favor, Gabriel, please wait until your message goes through - I’m getting repeat comments from you, and it’s a bit of a pain to continue deleting double posts. Thanks.
Gabriel wrote:
“Are the British with the Al Qaeda just because they did not go to war with you in Iraq?”
The “British”? Did you mean the “French”? Anyway, re-read my post. It’s Al-Qaeda who’s against everybody. See my article. Then, if you want to talk seriously, we can. I have no time for ad hominem.
Jeffery Hodges
“And since you know brought it up, the American taxpayer and DoD is NOT happy to see American bases all over the world - it’s not only a financial burden, but it reduces the effectiveness of the American military. Too many commitments, not enough resources, and if it starts to effect the economy, and effects military budgets”
The Marmot
Hey Marmot!
“affect” and “effect” are not the same as much as “lose” and “loose” are not the same. The error is so glaring it is visible a parsec away
Are you really an English teacher? No shit???!!! Well, the Koreans could not tell the difference anyway. But when you become an “expert” on North Korea and a lot of good english speakers begin to read your blog, your english better be impeccable.
Gabriel the Troll displays the typical credulity of the loony left and reflexive America-haters. The “Brazil has blacks, too?” quote originated in a Brazilian newspaper, got picked up by Der Spiegel in Germany, and subequently found its way into the “Daily Worker”-type rags in the States. Funny how none of the American media, which was at the time by no means in love with George W. Bush, ran such a bombshell!
But to accept that this gaffe actually happened requires us to believe that somehow the White House suppressed all possible American reports of it for AT LEAST FIVE MONTHS after the supposed event. Bush and Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso met exactly twice prior to the report: in March 2001 and November 2001. Yet somehow this “story” didn’t break until April 2002!
“But when you become an “expert” on North Korea and a lot of good english speakers begin to read your blog, your english better be impeccable.”
Excuse me, but people do not read this blog to improve their English. Of course, since you’re obviously fluent in both Korean and English, you can start your own blog, translate Korean material to your heart’s content, and provide much more insightful and articulate commentary than I can on this humble blog.
Cheers.
for marmot
dear english teacher(professor? if it is, shit!!) marmot
the following very similar words are worlds apart:
loose and lose
heel and heal
effect and affect
Preservation and Perseverance
well, even Bush got confused with the last pair
“This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation.
It’s what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve.”
–Speaking during “Perseverance Month” at
Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, New Hampshire, Jan. 28, 2000
you may not be alone marmot, but teaching english is what you do, you should
be good at it
Bush sucks oil and he’s very good at it (must be from the Zapata days?)so we could be a little lenient if he makes embarrassing english mistakes
but you? hahaha
“Gabriel the Troll displays the typical credulity of the loony left and reflexive America-haters. The “Brazil has blacks, too?” quote originated in a Brazilian newspaper, got picked up by Der Spiegel in Germany, and subequently found its way into the “Daily Worker”-type rags in the States. Funny how none of the American media, which was at the time by no means in love with George W. Bush, ran such a bombshell!
But to accept that this gaffe actually happened requires us to believe that somehow the White House suppressed all possible American reports of it for AT LEAST FIVE MONTHS after the supposed event. Bush and Brazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso met exactly twice prior to the report: in March 2001 and November 2001. Yet somehow this “story” didn’t break until April 2002! ”
Why? were you still too young when the My Lai massacre happened? The massacre happened on March 16, 1968, you know when the american public knew about it? November of 1969!!!! AND THAT’S TWENTY MONTHS BRENDON CARR!!!
read it here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/v.....mylai.html
“Gabriel wrote:
“Are the British with the Al Qaeda just because they did not go to war with you in Iraq?”
The “British”? Did you mean the “French”? Anyway, re-read my post. It’s Al-Qaeda who’s against everybody. See my article. Then, if you want to talk seriously, we can. I have no time for ad hominem.
Jeffery Hodges
”
OH test done, so, Jeffery Hodges reads too
So you equate “You have blacks, too?” with My Lai? Wow.
Back to the american presence in Korea:
the Marmot wants the americans to leave korea and make rich nations be responsible for their own defense. I’ll bet my balls that the americans will never leave until the north korean dictatorship is deposed.
North Korea and its nuclear arsenal is never south korea’s or even japan’s problem. do you think that the north koreans are so stupid that they are going to detonate a nuclear bomb in seoul? do you know how close seoul is to pyongyang? are you people too young to remember chernobyl? dont you remember the milk cans from europe being pulled out of supermarket shelves due to contamination? if a nuclear bomb is detonated in seoul, will it not affect (AND NOT EFFECT!!!) pyongyang? if a bomb is detonated in tokyo, will the winds not bring pestilence to pyongyang too? and if pyongyang bombs seoul and tokyo, what will happen to its milking cows? (think hyundai asan here)
The fact is, kim jong il and the north’s nuclear arsenal is America’s problem. The americans are worried because with all the money coming in from the south and japan, pyongyang may have the capability to launch intercontinental ballistic missiles. AND MOTHER AMERICA WILL NEVER BE SAFE.
The Marmot talks about having ground troops as no longer necessary due to technology. the Marmot obviously, does not know what he is talking about (boy, that’s serious, his english is not perfect and now his analysis might be wrong?)
The Marmot must have not heard of how many people died due to system failures during the gulf war and the war in Iraq?
The marmot doesn’t know how much a solar flare or some other electromagnetic energy bursts can do to an electronic circuit board?
The marmot doesn’t know how hard it is to develop embedded systems? The marmot has not heard of the maiden flight of the ariane V? or how a priority inversion problem reset and reset the system on the Mars Pathfinder (it was good that they left the windriver debugger on board)? the fact is that it is very hard to develop embedded systems. embedded systems developers will tell you that embedded systems development is really like groping in the dark.
and that is why the americans have to be in a forward area like the one south of the DMZ. Because when everything else fails, they could just storm across the border and start shooting.
if the americans leave the peninsula without having kim jong il deposed first and having the north in the south’s hands i will have a second circumcision and i will buy the marmot all the san miguel beer he could drink
“So you equate “You have blacks, too?” with My Lai? Wow.”
ah wow, aren’t we too slow? arguing with the likes of brendon carr is a pain in the ass. you never learn anything from the likes of him.
So here it is brendon carr, i’ll say it slowly
If something as serious as My Lai will take TWENTY MONTHS to get to the American public, is it really impossible that saying what Bush said will take FIVE MONTHS to get to the american public???
Jeez Brendon, get an education. If you have nothing intelligent to say, spew some venom at least, that way you’re gonna make the posters think twice arachi????
Trolls, trolls, trolls…
Anonymous trolls, too! All the better!
Look, I appreciate a good troll as much as the next blogger, but if you’re going to an obnoxious little prick in my comments section, I’m not going to waste time reading your crap. It’s not that I don’t want to see dissenting opinions expressed here. Far from it - I would love nothing more that to see my comments section become a forum for real debate. 99% of my commenters are courteous, insightful people who add life to this blog, and for that, I thank them. However, coming onto MY blog (which I pay for with MY money) and being a rude little assclown will not be tolerated. So consider this a warning - if you act like a jerk, you will be banned from posting, and any future posts will be deleted.
Comments erased.
PS: You’re right, Gabriel - banning you completely is an extremely difficult thing to do in the ROK. So if trolling this blog means that much to you, hey, I can’t stop you completely.
Marmot,
You have a top-quality blog with a good following of knowledgeable readers who generally take full responsibility for their comments by attaching their names. I like that. What I do not like are anonymous posters who make irresponsible remarks and engage in personal attacks to deflect attention away from the topic. I think that is what Gabriel was trying to do.
I make spelling and grammar errors all the time when I am posting, and I make even more when I translate some nonsense article from “Hankyore,” which I sometimes waste my time doing because I want others to see some of the goofy commentary to which Koreans are being exposed. I understand and excuse your spelling mistakes, which I rarely see, because I come here for your insight and your entertaining writing style.
Keep up the good work.
Is it me, or did Gabe just go balistic over a pension plan? Freudian slip or what.
Wow, it looks like certain Filipinos have just as much of a national esteem problem as the Koreans.
Marmot - The PLA Navy is already taking care of the defense needs of Mischief Reef, about 60 miles off Palawan in the PI. As nature abhors a vacuum, when the 7th Fleet left Subic the PLA Navy stepped in.
While cyber-stalkers like Gabriel and the anonymous troll (who, like the lux bearer over at SEB, may be the same person) increase traffic, it’s painfully clear that they diminish the quality of debate. Let the value-subtracting crowd start their own blogs — or return to boards like those at the Korea Herald or Chosun, which have been irreparable defaced by ranters of Gabriel’s ilk. (I admire Gabriel’s brave but futile attempt to make the Philippines relevant…)
Our Gabriel might better be termed Jibreel. His knowledge of and apparent sympathy with the Moro Front and Militant Islamist movements in Southeast Asia (and elsewhere), along with his reference to having “a second circumcision” might suggest that he is Muslim. I’d guess that he used to be a secular Muslim of the left who — as with too much of the left these days — is aligning himself with retrograde Islamist movements because they fight against the West, capitalism, globalization, and (especially) the United States. This might be a tactical alignment or a genuine shift of ideology. Or he might just be playing a cyber-role and having fun in his anonymity.
Jeffery Hodges
PING:
TITLE: Eyes on Korea: 12-09-2003
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
JAN 9/03 TOPICS INCL: Masterful analysis of reunification, Future of U.S. Forces Korea; South Koreans killed in Iraq; China & Korea fight over ancient history; Josh Marshall on Korean diplomacy; Riots; Bruce Cumings attacks; Hunger strikes; North Korea…