The return to Korea of a number of exiled “pro-democracy activists,” including Professor Song Du-yul, has been getting too much press for me to avoid comment on it any longer. But first, a caveat: I have not read any of Song’s work, and do not feel qualified to really pass judgement on him as an academic. I can’t criticize that which I do not know. All I really know of the man is what I read ABOUT him in the Korean press. and much of that is very much biased against him for a number of different reasons. What you will read in this post is nothing more than my own gut feelings - probably misinformed and highly unjust - based on what little I know of the professor and his fellow “pro-democracy” activists-in-exile. For a more informed opinion, I direct you to Peter at Oranckay.net, who met Song once in Prague and is without doubt much more knowledgeable of both the man’s ideas and the unfortunate circumstances of his life.
Having said that, let me begin by saying that while Song himself has not said anything particularly odious since his returning, a number of his fellow exiles have said a couple of things that just leave a bad taste in my mouth. Kwak Dong-ui, head of the Korean Residents Of Japan Democracy and Unification Movement (Hant’ongnyon), had this to say in a telephone interview with the Munhwa Ilbo on September 19:
“We must work hard to quickly end the era of division by having the North and South free themselves from Cold War ideologies and ideas.”
A little later:
“Ideologies and systems are changeable; they change according to the times,” and “North and South must acknowledge and respect one another, while protecting the interests of the [Korean] race.”
I know the man spent much of his life in exile for supporting then-dissident Kim Dae-jung, but I’m sorry, these are not the words of a pro-democracy activist. These are the words of a “unificationista,” i.e. one who couldn’t give a rat’s ass about democracy as long as the nation is one big, [un]happy whole. How, exactly, does “acknowledging and respecting” the North’s Stalinist system benefit the “Korean race,” if that means condemning 20 million fellow Koreans to live in a gulag state for the forseeable future? Granted, refusing to acknowledge and respect the North would do little to free oppressed North Koreans unless one backed up that refusal with military resolve and a willingness to possibly lose Seoul, but at least those paying for our “peace” would not be forgotten. And for a man who was willing to accept exile for protesting the human rights abuses of the Park Chung-hee regime, Kwak seems a little too cavalier in his attitudes towards unimaginably worse crimes against humanity committed against the Korean race by the Pyongyang regime. Take a look at this statement Hant’ongnyon released to mark its members’ visit to the Fatherland (sorry, it’s in Korean) - lots of talk of racial solidarity, patriotism, and unification, but very not one single line about human rights and democracy - the ostensible reasons for their struggle. I mean, what’s the point of spending much of your life in exile fighting for democracy if you intend to waste that democracy on a meaningless “unification” where half the nation remains unfree? And why should anyone have supported Kwak’s organization (granted, few people did) if Kwak himself is unwilling to support the cause of human rights for his fellow Koreans north of the DMZ?
That brings us to Professor Song. In no way, shape, or form do I wish to justify the trials the man has been forced to undergo as a result of his philosophical and political convictions, conviction about which I have already admitted being for the most part ignorant. Also, the allegations that the man is a member of the North Korean Politburo are probably bullshit, considering their source. The man spent the better part of the sixties, seventies, and eighties organizing opposition to South Korea’s dictators - an admirable enough cause. But a picture is worth more than a thousand words, so take a look at this picture taken from a documentary on Song’s life - it’s the good professor at a “pro-democracy” demonstration in Germany. Now, am I mistaken, or does that sign in back of Song read, “No Trade with Tyrants”? I can’t see the entire Korean-language banner, but I see “Let’s Overthrow [something]” and “Military Dictatorship.” Now, it’s possible to read too much into a picture - just because there are students at a demonstration calling for trade sanctions on South Korea does not necessarily mean the Professor Song, by his attendance at said demonstration, also supported trade sanctions against South Korea. Nor am I saying that supporting sanctions on South Korea during the 70s and 80s was necessarily a bad thing - although I wouldn’t have supported them, arguments in favor of said sanctions could have effectively been made. What I AM saying is that Song’s views concerning the North are rather surprising considering how passionate his opposition to much less odious dictators in the South was. I quote from the Chosun Ilbo (English Edition):
But in the ensuing years reality distanced itself from Song’s article, as the gap between South and North Korea widened broadly in the 1990s. Then Professor Song, who styled himself as the prophet of the nation’s enlightenment and liberation movement, suddenly began preaching his theory of “intrinsic access”: that North Korean society can only be explained using its own internal, subjective logic. The theory was essentially a unilateral and unconditional defense of North Korea, instead of a means to truly understand North Korea. His impartiality was clear enough, when you note that he condemned Park Chung Hee’s Yushin system, but defended Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il’s dictatorial system.
The fact that this quote is taken from a notoriously rightist paper (and reprinted in a notoriously rightist blog) does not, in my estimate, make the observation any less true. Let me quote another English-language source, this time the Korea Times:
After dictatorship toppled and democracy arrived in South Korea, Song continued working towards a realization of his vision of unifying the two Koreas by leading scholastic exchanges between Korean scholars of the South, North and abroad since the early 1990s.
On March 26 to April 2, he organized the sixth meeting of scholars in Pyongyang, where scholars discussed the North Korean nuclear crisis. There was an overall feeling in Pyongyang was that it would become the next target after Iraq, Song said.
“They (the North Korean scholars) claimed the nuclear crisis is a phantom created by the U.S., a logic created to reorganize the world order,” he said. “The different view North Korea holds of the outside world, plus the lack of a language system that others can understand, often added to the misunderstanding.”
For his part Song has been an advocate of an “immanent” approach to North Korea. He defended the methodology, which had come under criticism for being too lenient towards the Pyongyang regime.
“The immanent approach means I try to understand them first by putting myself in their position, not from the head but from reality. (Even now) we know so little about North Korea, that studying an obscure African tribe may be easier than doing research into North Korea.”
Curious - and I guess Park Chung-hee’s “Korean-style democracy” didn’t require such an imminent approach, eh? And I find it odd that a man could shift focus so easily from toppling dictatorship to working for “unification” through “scholastic exchanges.” Granted, I’m not much of an intellectual - much less a protege of Jurgen Habermas - but it would seem that the natural order of things would be to work for unification of the peninsula though toppling that other Korean dictatorship, i.e. the one that rules from Pyongyang. There’s a definite disconnect here, and if someone more familiar with Song’s views can fill me in on what I’m missing, I’d more than appreciate it.
As Oranckay once pointed out, there’s a shit load of hypocrisy on the Right concerning North Korea. However, that hypocrisy is by no means ideologically confined to us rightists (and to be fair, Oranckay never said it was). You have leftists who spent most of the 70s and 80s calling for the overthrow of military dictatorships in South Korea who now refuse to demand freedom for the 20 million compatriots with whom they so passionately desire “unification.” Of course, this is not a phenomenon limited to Korea - much of the Western Left loved to hate Pinochet, who despite all his faults did more for Chile that their darling Castro ever did for Cuba. Nelson Mandela, of course, counts among his best friends Libyan dictator Mu’amar Ghaddafi and has steadfastly opposed sanctions on Libya, Iraq, Cuba, and Zimbabwe similar to those he supported on Apartheid South Africa. I don’t mean this as a unilateral assault on the Left as a whole - the “Left” is hardly a unitary block, and as Oranckay points out, we on the right have enough hypocrisy of our own to worry about.
As I said before, this post is simply my initial feelings on this issue - I still have much to learn about the characters involved and the circumstances of their stories. It’s more of a jump-off point for dialogue than a concrete formulation of my views. Anyway, I apologize for this poorly organized drivel - readers should feel free to tear it apart.
11 Comments
On the question of hypocrisy on the right. Did you ever ask any of those “right wing hypocrites” “do you disapprove of South Korea’s dictatorship”? Did you ask the US State Department what it’s opinion was? If you had, you would have found that none of these people liked South Korea’s dictatorship.
Just because right-wing people don’t like something, doesn’t mean we scream it from the rooftops, when the party in question is an ally, and we are fighting a much bigger enemy.
Did you hear Churchill screaming about Stalin’s dictatorship DURING WWII? Refusing to provide the Soviet Union with the arms required to beat the Nazis? Did you see the “hypocritical” right wing people siding with the Nazis over the Commies during WWII, based on the fact that the Nazis were more right wing than the Commies? Or did they just stand up to the worst dictator on the block?
South Korea was a LONG way from being the worst dictator on the block. It’s easy to look back AFTER the Cold War and say “look at what you did here”. If you want to look back at history, you can see that the right wing did whatever was necessary to contain the commies. It was a noble cause, and it was done successfully. And it was done without the benefit of perfect hindsight. And as you can see from these “democracy advocates”, it appears that they were more interested in weakening the anti-Communist alliance than actually caring about either democracy or human rights.
Instead of criticizing the right for hypocrisy, you should thank them (and yourself!) for doing what was necessary to win the war, regardless of how difficult some of those steps were. I am equally happy that my forefathers had the brains to give material support to Stalin’s evil regime during WWII too. It was the right thing to do, regardless of how unpalatable it must have felt.
Paul : Saying ‘the right this’ or ‘the left that’ means you instantly and immediately lose whatever argument you’re in, I reckon.
(Which is why I’ve taken a step back from arguing with ideologues, as much as possible, lately, although I do still enjoy poking them with sharpened sticks. Heh.)
With regard to the post itself, the only thing I’d mention is that I think that neither
“We must work hard to quickly end the era of division by having the North and South free themselves from Cold War ideologies and ideas.”
nor
“Ideologies and systems are changeable; they change according to the times,” and “North and South must acknowledge and respect one another, while protecting the interests of the [Korean] race.”
seem to me that far off base (references to the ‘Korean race’ aside, which always put me in mind of ‘the Aryan race’), and that you may (or may not!) be putting words into Kwak’s mouth by saying the latter quote is apologist blather for the Nork regime.
I mean, I agree 100% when you say “How, exactly, does “acknowledging and respecting” the North’s Stalinist system benefit the “Korean race,” if that means condemning 20 million fellow Koreans to live in a gulag state for the forseeable future?”, but working for the welfare of the people of the DPRK and supporting its government are two very different things, or should be. Which is something that aid agencies and the US government, back when it was giving aid, ignored out of expediency for many years.
Bullets through the heads of Kim JI and every other person up there who has had any role in governing the DPRK for say, the last 10 years, certainly would make the world a better place, it must be said.
And you are correct that ‘democracy’ as Koreans use the word (as in ‘WTO Undemocratic’ - WTF? of course it’s undemocratic, dumbasses!) doesn’t carry much of the meaning that we’d expect.
Nonetheless, I think that reunification, much of a collective kick in the nuts to the pie-in-the-sky man on the street in South Korea as it would be, is inevitable and is something that should be pursued with all vigour (and caution).
But without, mark you, permitting anything in the aftermath but the imprisonment and/or death of Kim JI and his murderous cohort.
Perhaps we could put him in a cell next to GWB! That would be sweet irony indeed….
Sorry for the doublepost. Damn browser’s going weird on me, or that was a Typepad hiccup.
stavrosthewonderchicken,
You state “Perhaps we could put him in a cell next to GWB! That would be sweet irony indeed….” Why do you think GWB should be in a cell? Just asking - thanks
Stavros, not sure why you think I lost an argument for saying “the right this”. I may have lost it if you had actually provided counterarguments instead of mild “name calling”, but I didn’t see you answer my fundamental point, which is “nations have every right to seek self-survival for themselves, even if that means temporary alliances with unsavoury characters against even more unsavoury characters”, and that there is nothing surprising or hypocritical about that.
Not sure what you even consider the alternative to be. Refuse to deal with Stalin, and let Hitler continue on his merry way, proud that you’ve sacrificed your children’s future to make some “moral stand” against countries that have gulags, only to watch concentration camps proliferate instead, and you and your children ending up in them? Sounds quite insane policy to me. I’d prefer to team up with Stalin, or (later) with South Korean dictators myself. NOW that the Soviet Union is defeated we no longer need to support South Korean dictators. Guess what? We aren’t. “we” being the west in general, I’m from Down Under.
As for your suggestion that GWB and Kim being put in adjacent cells, ie implying moral equivalence between someone who is toppling dictators, and dictators, if you can’t see the gross immorality of that, I won’t be able to explain it to you.
The next bit of your post, about “ending Cold War ideology”. I’m not sure what Cold War ideology you think is alive in South Korea. If you mean “liberal democracy is better than dictators with gulags”, then I hope that the South Koreans haven’t forgotten that ideology, although it seems an unusually high number have.
In the next bit, you say that you agree with the “north and south respecting each other”, then in that single paragraph you say “except the korean race bit, that sounds a bit racist” and “except condemning people to gulags”. The only thing that remains in that paragraph is something about the welfare of the people. Well in what way do the South Koreans (government or people) not already respect their North Korean brothers who are being forced to live in poverty and sent to gulags? As far as I know, every South Korean would like their brethren to be freed from oppression, and live just like them, in freedom. In fact, most people in the west, if not the world, also want that.
Incidentally, when that “democracy advocate” was waving banners of “no trade with dictators”, I wonder if the North Koreans and the USSR were on his hit list?
If there is hypocrisy on the right, and there may well be, anything is possible, just show me the evidence, it pales into insignificance compared to what the left passes off as morality.
See, this is why I don’t bother with this politico-wankery, most of the time.
“The next bit of your post, about “ending Cold War ideology”. I’m not sure what Cold War ideology you think is alive in South Korea….”
Dude, I was re-quoting quoted speech from Marmot’s original post. Try again.
“If there is hypocrisy on the right, and there may well be, anything is possible, just show me the evidence, it pales into insignificance compared to what the left passes off as morality.”
You lose again, son. Learn to think beyond labels and oversimplifications and -isms, learn to stop demonizing your rhetorical opponents, and get back to me when you grow up.
“… if you can’t see the gross immorality of that, I won’t be able to explain it to you.”
And if you can’t see why GWB and his cohort of lying scum belong in prison, I guess can’t explain _that_ to you either.
So let’s just call it a day, shall we?
Actually, before I go, with regard to the last point about the venality of Bush and his cadre, I’ll bite, and offer some supporting points and links that are by no means a complete picture of why I think they are unfit to run the most powerful nation in the world, and ought to be run out on a rail (points which I did not compile, I hasten to mention, but that I reproduce here in the spirit of annoying the hell out of Bushites whenever possible). Enjoy!
(Replace ‘Bush’ with ‘The Bush Administration’ where appropriate, of course.)
1. Bush spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.
http://moneyinsider.msn.com/co.....P49070.asp
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/economy/
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne....._budget_dc
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-31-03.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....6768/posts
http://www.dailykos.com/archiv.....tml#003024
http://www.costofwar.com/
http://www.hillnews.com/op_ed/050603.aspx
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2747153.stm
2. Bush shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0723-03.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....cit-_x.htm
http://www.unemployedfordean.o.....ebtP.shtml
http://www.salon.com/politics/.....ex_np.html
http://www.ffis.org/misc/sum.htm
http://cbsnewyork.com/finance/.....93926.html
http://truthout.org/docs_03/080303D.shtml
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/.....-usec.html http://www.house.gov/apps/list.....axcut.html
http://www.progressivedailynew.....ake_up.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....713-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0110-06.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1016-01.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/economy/
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne....._budget_dc
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-31-03.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....6768/posts
http://www.dailykos.com/archiv.....tml#003024
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....5108.shtml http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....1360.shtml
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....DT0532.DTL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Found=true
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....827-04.htm
3. Bush set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....313-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0224-09.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0921-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0817-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0807-02.htm
http://demsonline.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1769
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kans.....564571.htm
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2.....-j29.shtml
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Aug18.html
http://www.msnbc.com/news/954221.asp?0cv=CB10
http://www.managementconsultan.....ws/1132570
4. Bush set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0224-09.htm
http://www.newsday.com/busines.....-headlines
http://money.cnn.com/2003/06/2.....s_newyork/
http://www.namibian.com.na/200.....7D815.html
http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0828-01.htm
http://slate.msn.com/default.aspx?id=2071929
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/.....-usec.html
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....714-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0906-07.htm
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ex.....orate.html
http://www.aarp.org/press/2002/nr121702.html
http://www.dccc.org/press/must.....2.507.html
http://www.democrats.org/speci.....cturethis/
5. Bush am the first president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/lazarus/20001104.html
http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html
http://www.jointogether.org/sa.....69,00.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2.....-n04.shtml
http://alcoholism.about.com/li.....?once=true
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm#cocaine
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/3835
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html
6. Bush set the the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one year period.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ge=printer
http://blog.deanforamerica.com.....00923.html
7. After taking-off the entire month of August 2001, Bush then presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.miami.com/mld/miami...../6269252.h
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Aug21.html
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....t1130.html
8. Bush attacked and overtook two countries, promised to rebuild them and have not yet done so.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2759789.stm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1109-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1127-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1206-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....323-05.htm
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/afghanistan/
http://www.careusa.org/newsroo.....ghanistan/
http://www.opensecrets.org/new...../index.asp
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/2...../index.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/.....op.report/
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03792r.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/sections.....ction.html
http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0812-09.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....702-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0502-10.htm
9. Bush is supporting development of a “Tactical Bunker Buster” nuke, a WMD.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....125-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....015-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0501-06.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....507-08.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO112C.html
http://www.progressive.org/0801issue/mill0801.html
http://www.ddh.nl/pipermail/we.....02777.html
http://www.truthout.org/docs_0.....s.nuke.htm
http://www.spacedaily.com/news.....e-02j.html
http://www.montanaforum.com/re......php?nnn=2
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....311-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....203-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0119-05.htm
http://www.thedesertsun.com/ne.....0501.shtml
10. Bush is getting American troops killed, under the lie of WMD components, then blaming the lie on our British friends and the CIA, where, coincidentally, his father used to lead.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0422-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0625-13.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....105-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0801-06.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....511-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0617-09.htm
http://www.progressivedailynew.....ake_up.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/war/index.html
http://billmon.org.v.sabren.co.....00172.html
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?St.....4812-9491r
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news.....28-19.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Found=true
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DB404482
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Found=true http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_sp.....ist_0.html http://www.iht.com/articles/86720.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/83625.html
http://www.buzzflash.com/editorial/03/06/09.html
11. Bush set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. president.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/bush/bushfin.html
http://vancouver.indymedia.org...../63364.php
12. In Bush’s first year in office over 2-million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month, leaving the nation in higher than ever unemployment.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0224-09.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0828-01.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.com/economy/
http://www.business-standard.c.....03.016.asp
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....1360.shtml
http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/2.....y/jobless/, “>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DB404482
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01.....7d9ei=5070
http://www.quinnell.us/politic.....l#business
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0807-02.htm
http://www.democrats.org/speci.....cturethis/
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne.....my_bush_dc
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DB404482
http://quote.bloomberg.com/app.....news_index
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?St.....5542-9620r
http://netscape5.marketwatch.c.....70A7459%7D
13. Bush set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0807-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1014-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1014-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0814-08.htm
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/09.....es_r.shtml
http://www.realtor.org/rmoDail.....#D654E8269
http://www.staugustine.com/sto.....7413.shtml
http://www.nahrep.org/Real_Voi....._reco.html
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/929194.asp
http://www.bizjournals.com/atl.....aily6.html
http://lists.econ.utah.edu/pip.....21871.html
http://www.staugustine.com/sto.....9382.shtml
http://www.news8.net/news/stories/0603/91941.html
http://www.informationclearing.....le3873.htm
14. Bush appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any president in U.S. history.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1203-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0809-07.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Found=true
http://www.warblogging.com/tia/poindexter.php
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/ar.....exter.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1123-04.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_03.htm
http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0611-03.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/in.....204kis.htm
http://thunderbay.indymedia.or.....2/2331.php
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1201-01.htm
http://www.judicialwatch.org/cases/104/perle.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Pol.....7_722.html
15. Bush set the record for least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2086431/
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....731-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0517-03.htm
http://www.theconnection.org/s.....a_main.asp
16. Bush signed more laws and executive orders effectively amending or ignoring the Constitution than any president in history.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/orders/
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-358es.html
17. Bush presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....514-06.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....726-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0202-08.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0522-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....613-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/0424-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0716-01.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Aug23.html
http://www.sfgate.com/energy/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...../blackout/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ls/energy/
http://www.powertothepeople.org/, “>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1972574.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US.....r.woes.01/
18. Bush presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use national reserves as past presidents have done.
http://www.time.com/time/archi.....52,00.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Aug25.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....DT0286.DTL
http://www.usatoday.com/news/n.....ices_x.htm
http://www.oregonlive.com/news.....768080.xml
http://www.observer-reporter.c.....349450.bsp
http://news.ft.com/servlet/Con.....9479308700
http://www.citizen.org/hot_issues/issue.cfm?ID=628
http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0826-02.htm
19. Bush has cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families — in war time.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0407-10.htm
http://www.thecarolinachannel......etail.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0328-11.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0326-10.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0313-06.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....810-02.htm
http://www.house.gov/budget_de.....ay2103.pdf
http://www.dasbistro.com/piper.....01096.html
http://www.futurenet.org/26cou.....rsmith.htm
http://www.townonline.com/brai.....022003.htm
http://www.pva.org/NEWPVASITE/.....r03018.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....5662/posts
http://todaysseniorsnetwork.co.....ngress.htm
http://utah.indymedia.org/news/2003/05/5087.php
http://www.veteransforpeace.or.....042403.htm
20. Bush allowed non-compete oil contracts to go to his VP’s company (where he is still employed, but on “deferred compensation”) and won’t answer to anyone about it.
http://biz.yahoo.com/n/h/hal.html
http://www.democraticundergrou.....anana.html
http://www.guerrillanews.com/sci-tech/doc2685.html http://www.forbes.com/home_eur.....57815.html
http://www.motherjones.com/new.....9_02b.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DB404482 http://www.oaklandtribune.com/.....51,00.html
http://www.workingforchange.co.....emID=15492
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ss.....ss/2044946
http://www.workingforchange.co.....emID=15477
http://www.corpwatch.org/news/.....cleid=8128
http://www.thewpbfchannel.com/.....etail.html
http://www.publicbroadcasting......_ID=534017
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq.....29,00.html
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/abs.....noid=31297
http://money.cnn.com/2003/08/1.....lliburton/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Aug27.html
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....308-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....323-11.htm
21. Bush has set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest against his policies in public venues (15 million people) shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of humankind.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakin.....y88661.asp
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/s.....S00136.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/16/sprj.irq.us.un/
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1070
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/.....irq.demos/
http://www.islamonline.net/Eng.....le09.shtml
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ss.....aq/1830622
http://www.smh.com.au/articles.....41559.html
http://www.iacenter.org/o26_world-reprt.htm
http://www.amarillonet.com/sto.....ehim.shtml
http://www.mindfully.org/Refor.....9feb03.htm
http://www.rockcitynews.com/pa.....sleft.html
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Wo.....04-ap.html
http://www.alternet.org/waroni.....00404.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/trueg.....tests.html
http://www.arabia.com/newsfeed.....60,00.html
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1074
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=1031
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/s.....S00167.htm
http://www.msnbc.com/news/888499.asp
http://www.thenation.com/thebe.....d=1pid=404
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27d/013.html
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA55GM6CCD.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0213-08.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....320-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....322-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....224-06.htm
22. Bush has dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....329-01.htm
http://hnn.us/articles/1465.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0810-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....730-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0427-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0715-04.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.....index.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....s-usat.htm
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onene.....-9,00.html
http://www.presentdanger.org/chronicle/index.html
http://www.unitedstatesgovernm.....eaties.htm
http://people.ucsc.edu/~rlipsch/treaties.html
http://www.impeachbush.tv/impeach/treaties.html
http://www.robertscheer.com/1_.....073101.htm
http://www.clw.org/control/bushunilateral.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush.....42,00.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0722-01.htm
23. Bush has made his presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history.
http://www.citizen.org/pressro.....cfm?ID=941
http://nsarchive.chadwyck.com/igintro.htm
http://www.thewpbfchannel.com/.....etail.html
24. Bush is proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My “poorest millionaire,” Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her.
http://www.thenation.com/doc.m.....5s=scherer
25. I am the first president in U.S. history to have almost all 50 states of the Union simultaneously suffer massive financial crisis.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0430-02.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/archiv.....tml#003067
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/.....082865.htm
http://nydailynews.com/front/s.....4461c.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DB404482
26. Bush presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in history.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DA404482
http://www.public-i.org/story_.....ewsstories
http://www.public-i.org/download/harkenmemo.pdf
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....173709.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....DT0516.DTL
http://biz.yahoo.com/n/h/hal.html
27. Bush is the first president in U.S. history to order a pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation, and did so against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0407-10.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1009-09.htm
http://www.islamonline.net/eng.....le01.shtml
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....814-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0825-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1011-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1010-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0825-02.htm
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/.....-woiq.html
http://www.afsc.org/tao/fa0204.htm
28. Bush created the largest governmental department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
29. Bush set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in history.
http://www.cato.org/dailys/07-31-03.html
http://www.washtimes.com/natio.....-6635r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOL.....billpress/
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....129-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0315-09.htm
30. Bush is the first president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0506-01.htm
http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/.....incb.shtml
31. Bush is the first president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Elections Monitoring Board.
32. Bush removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight, than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1009-09.htm
http://www.citizen.org/pressro.....cfm?ID=941
33. Bush rendered the entire United Nations viewpoints irrelevant.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....105-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0801-06.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....511-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....826-07.htm
34. Bush withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....810-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....329-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....910-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....523-02.htm
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Wo.....83-ap.html
http://hnn.us/articles/1465.html
35. Bush refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. “prisoners of war” (detainees) and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0305-09.htm
http://web.amnesty.org/library.....NTRIES/USA
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/duggan2.html
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....117-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0808-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0125-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....114-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0125-06.htm
36. Bush is the first president in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).
37. Bush is the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1109-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....313-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....000-01.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/issue.....opicid=106
http://www.organicconsumers.org/corp/corporate.cfm
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=9862
http://www.progressive.org/pc0900.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....427-04.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....Found=true
http://www.quinnell.us/politic.....l#campaign
http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/2442, “>http://www.tpj.org/pioneers/gov.html
http://story.news.yahoo.com/ne.....my_bush_dc
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....828-02.htm
http://www.opensecrets.org/new...../index.asp
38. Bush’s largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of his best friends, (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation) presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history. His political party used the Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure his success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my 2000 election decision.
http://www.corpwatch.org/issue.....opicid=106
http://www.progressive.org/pc0900.htm
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12155
http://www.counterpunch.org/tomenron.html
http://www.thenation.com/capit.....id=3pid=21
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcr.....llips.html
http://www.buzzflash.com/persp.....Enron.html
http://www.time.com/time/natio.....20,00.html
http://observer.guardian.co.uk.....37,00.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/.....s/lay.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor.....119981.stm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....131-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....904-10.htm
39. Bush has spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
40. Bush garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most resented country in the world, possibly the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....903-12.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.....index.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0826-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0823-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0123-03.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....205-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0901-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....303-07.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....126-01.htm
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/s.....vo2-1.html
http://www.cdi.org/polling/22-.....pinion.cfm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/else.....24,00.html
http://www.jamaat-e-islami.org/pr/PR19032003A.html
http://www.progressive.org/aug03/zinn0803.html
http://www.gvnr.com/56/1.htm
41. Bush is actively working on a policy of “disengagement” creating the most hostile of Israel-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
42. I am the first to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0907-04.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutgeorge.....index.html
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....904-08.htm
43. Bush is the first president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than by their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
http://www.manilatimes.net/nat.....0wor2.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/kore.....04,00.html
44. Bush changed U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
45. Bush set an all-time record for the number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling their huge personal investments in corporations bidding for U.S. contracts.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0319-02.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOL.....sh.cheney/
http://biz.yahoo.com/n/h/hal.html
http://www.newsmax.com/archive.....0648.shtml
http://www.truthout.org/docs_0.....ussein.htm
http://www.workingforchange.co.....emID=15492
46. Bush failed to fulfill my pledge to capture Osama Bin Laden, dead or alive.
http://www.osamaclock.com/
47. Bush failed to capture Saddam Hussein.
48. Bush’s family is very close with the Saudi Royal family, and has been for many years, which casts some suspicion on the decision to omit the pages from the report on 9-11 that may put the Saudi’s in a bad light.
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....211-05.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....210-04.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0813-04.htm
http://www.miami.com/mld/miami...../6269252.h
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....2868.shtml
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....904-07.htm
49. Bush failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder American leaders at the U.S. Capitol Building. His investigators have found no leads and no credible suspects.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2196008.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/anth.....47,00.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/.....n/?related
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0703-06.htm
http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au.....0C001A1413
http://www.guardian.co.uk/anth.....42,00.html
http://www.aim.org/publication.....01/21.html
http://www.cooperativeresearch.....90702.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections....._ross.html
http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au.....enDocument
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1212-02.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0521-01.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0323-01.htm
50. Following the World Trade Center attack Bush have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0619-04.htm
http://thunderbay.indymedia.or.....2/2331.php
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/a.....94DB404482
Stavros, if the person above already lost by referring to “the right” or “the left” in a blanket way, you’ve certainly already lost with blanket statements like this:
“Bush removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any president in U.S. history.”
More than any? The Alien and Sedition Acts were easily worse. What Andrew Jackson did to the Cherokee, defying the Supreme Court, was worse. The internment camps for Japanese during World War II, not a worse abuse of civil liberties? The invention of the administrative subpoena during the New Deal? The Palmer raids? Loyalty Acts? Abraham Lincoln suspending habeaus corpus during the Civil War, or placing Baltimore under martial law? (Now, I certainly approve of the Civil War, but certainly civil liberties were sacrificed during it.)
In addition, so, so many of your points are complete abuses of mathematics, ignoring population increase and inflation.
“Learn to think beyond labels and oversimplifications and -isms, learn to stop demonizing your rhetorical opponents, and get back to me when you grow up.”
Umm. Pot, meet kettle. Your entire next post is nothing but oversimplifications.
Also, discuss Thomas Jefferson’s attack on the Barbary Pirates, which was opposed by most nations at the time.
“…leaving the nation in higher than ever unemployment.”
OK, can you possibly believe this statement? Unemployment of 6% is clearly lower than many, many times in the nation’s history. If you’re talking absolute numbers, then you’re equally not to be trusted, because that’s just ridiculous and meaningless.
I also can’t possibly reconcile your statements about hating dictators like those in North Korea with your comments about the UN and the UN Human Rights Commission. Anyone following the UN Human Rights Commission knows that just over half its members right now are the world’s worst human rights abusers. Those countries get on the commission in order to defang it.
Expecting the UN General Assembly to vote against dictators, given its overall makeup, is like expecting turkeys to vote for Thanksgiving.
Well, this post has definately yielded unpredicted responses…
BTW, Mr. Stavros, did you actually type in all those links one by one or did you have them all ready to go somewhere else?
Ok Stavros, let’s start at the top.
“See, this is why I don’t bother with this politico-wankery”
The trouble with the left wing is that they never consider the possibility that it might just be them who is coming up with the politico-wankery, in the absence of any evidence to back up their immoral arguments equating a democratically elected leader of a liberal democracy, with a Stalinist dictator presiding over gulags.
“The next bit of your post, about “ending Cold War ideology”.
“Dude, I was re-quoting quoted speech from Marmot’s original post.”
Yes, you requoted it, saying that it was close to the mark. Given that the original author isn’t readily available to cross-examine, I thought I’d do the next best thing, which is to ask someone who agreed with it, to justify it.
“Try again.”
See above.
“If there is hypocrisy on the right, and there may well be, anything is possible, just show me the evidence, it pales into insignificance compared to what the left passes off as morality.”
“You lose again, son.”
I do? With what counterargument demonstrating hipocrisy?
“Learn to think beyond labels and oversimplifications”
The trouble with the left is they never seem to be able to apply their own advice to themselves.
“and -isms, learn to stop demonizing your rhetorical” “opponents, and get back to me when you grow up.
See above.
“… if you can’t see the gross immorality of that,” “I won’t be able to explain it to you.”
“And if you can’t see why GWB and his cohort of” “lying scum”
See above about “demonizing blah blah blah”.
Some simple questions:
1. What lie are you referring to?
2. Which bit of liberating peoples from tyrants do you consider makes him scum?
“belong in prison,”
3. Which particular act was a criminal offence, and was it a first offence, and if so, was he proven guilty in a court of law, or does the presumption of innocence no longer apply in your version of America another example of the left wing hipocrisy when they complain about GWB undermining rights, when they would do far worse if given half a chance - a reason why the price of democracy is eternal vigilance).
As for your list of “reasons for sending Bush to prison”, I hope you numbered them in the order of importance, because I can only take so much left wing lies before we get into the stage where they cease to recognize logical thought. So in the interests of limiting the size of this message, let’s just start with the first lie.
“1. Bush spent the U.S. surplus”
Surpluses/deficits happen year by year. You can’t spend a surplus, because then you no longer have a surplus. This is a simple problem with logic.
“and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.”
The USA is a *long* way from bankruptcy, the costs of the War on Terror are annoying, but not remotely fatal. The Korean War required a MUCH higher percentage of GDP spent on it. This one is el-cheapo.
Besides which, if you are GENUINELY concerned about fiscal prudence, if you ask him nicely, I’m sure GWB will slash spending on all your favourite programs, and then you will instead be whinging about the “uncaring Bush administration with its draconian cuts”.
Just face it, you don’t give a toss about deficits, you just want to take a cheap shot at GWB who is basically paying for what it costs to liberate the world of tyrants and replace them with liberal democracies who will no longer threaten anyone else. He may get sniped at from elements of the gutter while he does it, but history will record that GWB was the one who finally decided that the right of people to not be raped and killed by their own government, was more important than his right to claim “sovereign immunity”, and if he happened to pose even the remotest threat to the rest of the world, he just signed his own death warrant.
Anyway, if you can’t even understand this first point, and simply admit that you’re just another left wing hypocrite STILL unable to find even TRACES of right wing hipocrisy, there’s no point continuing with the other points, which I will similarly despatch.
PING:
TITLE: Korea Briefing: 2003-10-14
BLOG NAME: Winds of Change.NET
OCT 14/03 TOPICS INCL: Must-read article; Asian values; Total Recall in SK too?; Wider regional role for USFK; NK Developments; Nukes updates; What to do about NK?; Lifestyles of the Rich and Stalinist; ROK forces to Iraq?; Food aid to NK; NK’s economy…